DF withdrawl has become the new "Fatigue" system

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Originally Posted by 314159265358979323846264338327

A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.
A party member has withdrawn from the duty.
Finding new member.

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Followed by the sounds of:

/shwing
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/shwing
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Originally Posted by Laraul

I do not understand why this was added. People generally don't queue the duty finder, wait a few minutes and click withdrawl over and over again. When a player queues for a duty it's because they WANT to participate in one. I mean "DUH!". And I see no evidence this has had any impact on the number of withdrawls...

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This was added because as important as your crying baby or whining dog is to you, all it is to the other 3/7/23 people that are waiting in the queue is wasted time and headaches due to someone withdrawing from the duty. You get two freebies, and there's no reason to use up more than that. If you need to go afk and aren't sure how long it will be, avoid the penalty completely by withdrawing from the queue and then requeue once you're back. As far as ingame things, just be intelligent about what you do to pass the time. I avoid aggro areas like Sapsa and the Sylphlands and I keep my crafts simple so I can extricate myself quickly when the duty pops.

If you honestly believe that there aren't people that troll the queue on purpose, you give the internet at large a lot more credit than it's due. I personally don't understand what they gain from making other people miserable, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist. As far as this reducing the number of withdrawals, there have been many posts on the forums stating that this is the case. If you don't want to take the vast amount of anecdotal evidence into account in this case, then I'm not really sure what to tell you.

Yes, Duty Finder withdrawal has become the new Fatigue system. Much like that case of bronchitis I had this past week has become the new Ebola.

Actually this was added because too many Tanks/Healers kept doing the hokey pokey till they got the lvl 50 dungeon they wanted. So DPS who had already waited up to an hour now had to wait another half an hour for someone to just decide to take what the roulette gave them.

It wasn't meant to punish people who had real life things pop up. It was put in to punish the people who were using their quick queue times to get the 'easy' dungeons for their tome grind.

Unfortunately this is why we can't have nice things...and the innocent have to suffer for the guilty.

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Originally Posted by Linadae

Actually this was added because too many Tanks/Healers kept doing the hokey pokey till they got the lvl 50 dungeon they wanted. So DPS who had already waited up to an hour now had to wait another half an hour for someone to just decide to take what the roulette gave them.

It wasn't meant to punish people who had real life things pop up. It was put in to punish the people who were using their quick queue times to get the 'easy' dungeons for their tome grind.

Unfortunately this is why we can't have nice things...and the innocent have to suffer for the guilty.

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Lmao. And in this thread too with the blaming of tanks/healers. I'm not surprised. xD

The vast majority of queue withdrawals I see are from DPS timing out.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Lmao. And in this thread too with the blaming of tanks/healers. I'm not surprised. xD

The vast majority of queue withdrawals I see are from DPS timing out.

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I used to main both healer and tank so I'm generally the LAST person to start laying blame at their feet. And I'm not talking about the timeout withdrawal. I'm talking about how the window pops up, then before you can even get your mouse to the button the window is GONE. That's not time out. That's someone playing the hokey pokey and considering dps queues...logic dictates it's not them.

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Originally Posted by Linadae

I used to main both healer and tank so I'm generally the LAST person to start laying blame at their feet. And I'm not talking about the timeout withdrawal. I'm talking about how the window pops up, then before you can even get your mouse to the button the window is GONE. That's not time out. That's someone playing the hokey pokey and considering dps queues...logic dictates it's not them.

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Right, but queue fishing isn't the sole culprit, therefore it's not the only reason for this change. You can't really talk about queue withdrawals without having timeouts in there for the same reason that you can't ignore queue fishing. There are multiple reasons for withdraw spam and to blame any single one of them more than another is nothing less than turning a blind eye to the big picture - no matter the source, queue withdrawals were bogging things down. SE recognized this as a problem and has implemented a solution. It may be fine tuned in the future, but at the very least we have something in place right now that will curb the constant withdraw spam.

Why are people still confused about this? If your party leader signs up for q without ready check he should be informed by you that you will not get anymore strikes due to his poor leadership skills, then you leave the said party. I got locked out once because of this, I no longer choose to party with that person.

This fix was, by far, one of the best fixes SE has ever implemented.

And I'm a healer.

3 times.

That is all that should need to be said.

I'm sick of these threads.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

Wait, what? The penalty is only 30 minutes? I thought if they got 3 strikes, they were basically banned from DF for 24 hours. If that's the case, I don't know what to think about it. On the one hand, that is not nearly as harsh as I thought it was. But on the other hand, it just highlights what a microscopic impact this has on anything at all.

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No, it's a 30 min wait. I know, because this happened to one of our FC mates who wasn't paying attention to his queues while he leveled a PUG/MNK. The reset happens at a certain time every day or after you miss 3 queues. So you wait 30 mins and you can miss 3 more queues or if you time it right, you can miss 6. This is not the BFD everyone is making it out to be.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

Wait, what? The penalty is only 30 minutes? I thought if they got 3 strikes, they were basically banned from DF for 24 hours. If that's the case, I don't know what to think about it. On the one hand, that is not nearly as harsh as I thought it was. But on the other hand, it just highlights what a microscopic impact this has on anything at all.

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No, you are only locked out from the DF for 30 minutes. Your 3 strikes reset every game day, though.

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Originally Posted by EricCartmenez

No, it's a 30 min wait. I know, because this happened to one of our FC mates who wasn't paying attention to his queues while he leveled a PUG/MNK. The reset happens at a certain time every day or after you miss 3 queues. So you wait 30 mins and you can miss 3 more queues or if you time it right, you can miss 6. This is not the BFD everyone is making it out to be.

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It doesn't reset after you miss 3 queues. Each successive miss results in a 30 minute penalty.

The incident that disturbed me was when I queued as PLD, saw a hunt near by, switched to BRD to participate and shortly after engaging the duty finder window popped. But I couldn't click in because I was the wrong class and it wouldn't let me change back. I kept moving farther and farther from the battle but it simply would not let me change back to PLD. Finally with two seconds to spare, it let me change back and I clicked in. But the whole experience was beyond agitating.

If I had been in a party, everyone would have suffered for my mistake. Why should my actions impact others in such a negative way?

If the purpose is to stop "trolls" then why is it just three a day? Why not something like ten a day? Ten is high enough that it would impact abusers but not impact normal players. Three is just too little.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

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saw a hunt near by, switched to BRD to participate ...
If I had been in a party, everyone would have suffered for my mistake. Why should my actions impact others in such a negative way?
....

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What are you doing trying to do hunts while waiting on the queue? You can not get full credit by yourself solo. This just a made up case. And if you are in a hunt party, you will not be queuing on the DF. This is nonsense, and you queue everyone if your hunt party on the DF, you are trolling them, and they will get mad at you.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

If the purpose is to stop "trolls" then why is it just three a day? Why not something like ten a day? Ten is high enough that it would impact abusers but not impact normal players. Three is just too little.

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The purpose was to speed up the queue. That means cutting down on in-progress fishing, trolling, and timing out.

You made it into your duty, so what's the problem?

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

What are you doing trying to do hunts while waiting on the queue? You can not get full credit by yourself solo. This just a made up case. And if you are in a hunt party, you will not be queuing on the DF. This is nonsense, and you queue everyone if your hunt party on the DF, you are trolling them, and they will get mad at you.

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These days you actually can get full credit without a party or in a smaller party. Hunts aren't nearly as overrun as they were before. I'm not really sure why she would've switch to BRD to participate though, since a PLD stands a much better chance of getting full credit at a hunt mark while solo.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

That may very well be true. But doing so is being greedy and risking not only a strike for missing the queue, but also devaluing the other players on the DF and taking them for granted and expecting them to wait. There are things one should avoid doing while waiting on the DF. Hunts should be one of them. Because to get full credit with a small group the hunt will not die in 45 seconds or less, and if does die quickly, then there are too many other players and it is not worth risking a strike for 2 to 5 allied seals. Insisting on doing so is insisting on being selfish and inconsiderate.

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Lol? Let's get something straight here. I stated that you can do the hunt in a small party or solo and still get full credit, not that there aren't other people there to share in the kill. Since you're trying to put meaning on my words that wasn't there, let me spell it out very very simply: I've gone to plenty of hunts solo or in a 2-3 person party in the past few days with other people that are not in my party also fighting the mob still managed to get full credit. The mobs still die really really fast, leaving me plenty of time to join the queue.

I still don't know why you'd switch to BRD when PLD stands a much better chance of getting full credit.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

But as for contributing nothing to a group...uhhh, I'd think holding hate and positioning the mobs so the paper thin DPS can do their jobs is a pretty hefty contribution.

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Anyone can do that.

Oh look at me, I have a huge threat modifier and just hit AEs and keep threat then stand there like a nod on a log. Tanking is the most braindead, uninvolved role in the game.

This is why people play tanks for a little bit, then they go back to DPS or healing or whatever - because unlike tanking, these roles provide opportunities to capitalize on and an element of surprise.

It's really hard to effectively describe contribution... Like, I play my Tank. I have like 100ish full party duties complete and completed the First Binding Coil of Bahamut while it was current (honestly turn 5 probably accounts for a quarter of my full party duties). I have participated in many speedruns and etc... But whenever I get in a DF group I'm very confident that I am a better dps than whoever I would get while I am tanking, so I prefer to just join roulette as DPS a lot.

I don't want to play my tank in roulette, because anyone can do what I do as a tank. I cannot do my job much better in a way that will make a world of difference as a tank, but I can as a DPS.

That is what I mean when I say that. It is not hard to play a tank and it is not rewarding enough to play one.

No small amount of gil will motivate me to do anything... Small sums of money are worthless in this game. Poetics bonus? GG that's only a few less dungeons I'll have to run this week. I actually wonder why the Soldiery bonuses are offered to DPS players when they disappear for tanks after one completed duty

it's because of things like that, that you end up in praetorium with a party full of people who have already completed it

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

...These days you actually can get full credit without a party or in a smaller party. Hunts aren't nearly as overrun as they were before. .....

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That may very well be true. But doing so is being greedy and risking not only a strike for missing the queue, but also devaluing the other players on the DF and taking them for granted and expecting them to wait. There are things one should avoid doing while waiting on the DF. Hunts should be one of them. Because to get full credit with a small group the hunt will not die in 45 seconds or less, and if does die quickly, then there are too many other players and it is not worth risking a strike for 2 to 5 allied seals. Insisting on doing so is insisting on being selfish and inconsiderate.

To address OP's original comparison... no, they are no where near the same. One encouraged you to spend time doing something else, the other punishes you for wasting other player's time (and has nothing to do with the class you're playing).
If you get locke dout of duty finder you still have many other things to be doing.

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Originally Posted by Magis

Followed by the sounds of:

/shwing
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i am reminded of this
http://static.fjcdn.com/large/pictur...bd_3414264.jpg

This, along with many other complaints about restrictions or "punishment" for doing something, all sums up to taking some damn responsibility for your decisions and choices. How is it unreasonable to expect someone (or a group) to commit to a queue at least once in a span of 3 attempts? Even if they don't, it is a temporary penalty that isn't very long. If that short penalty is a problem, perhaps their choice to not be ready is something they shouldn't take as lightly as their peers? Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

What are you doing trying to do hunts while waiting on the queue?

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This is the stuff that needs to stop. First it was what are you doing crafting while on the queue? Then came why are you doing fates if you can't change jobs fast enough?

Then there was this gem... (From this thread... http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...68#post2595568)

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Originally Posted by Barboron

Well then perhaps you need a warning before entering a cutscene that you are queued for a duty as you are taking the risk, not the 3+ other people.

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Now its what are you doing trying to do hunts while in the queue? Do you people who ask these questions even take the time to think? Given all these "why are you doing "X" while in queue" threads, its almost like you expect people to queue and sit there and do absolutely nothing but stare at the screen and wait for the DF to pop. If that's the case what's the point in queuing for an hour anyway.

I am a supporter of the penalty for withdrawals. Have been since the start. Do I think it needs some changes? Most definitely. Do I know what those changes should be? Not really.

But despite what I may think, one thing I know is this... these "why are you doing anything but breathing while queued" questions do nothing to help the flawed situation that is the current system. Additionally, the constant blaming people for actually trying to do something in the game while queued for an hour need to stop (blame should be directed at, and only at, the DF trolls and people who go AFK for extended periods while queued who created the need for this in the first place).

Well but i am with barboron.

When you are in a cutscene and the DF window comes up, you should be able to accept at least the DF invitation.

if you accepted that invitation you should be able to start the last cutscene over again from the beginning, when its being interrupted by changing the zone into the specific content.


Because some cutscenes you dont want to cancel actually.

and it should work easily like that.

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Originally Posted by AzakaTonnerre

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I agree with this. The more appropriate question should be '"Why are you trying to rush a hunt when your Duty Ready pops, and you know you aren't going to finish before your Duty Ready expires?"

You have 45 seconds to finish off what you are doing. It's not 45 seconds for you to pick something up and attempt to finish, because it just won't work.

45 seconds is enough for you to
- Press a gear set button to change jobs
- Run away from agro in open world (excluding beast tribe areas) and press a gear set button to change jobs
- De-level sync from your FATE/de-agro from your FATE and press a gear set button to change jobs
- Finish off your current gathering node (six hits max), put away your MH, and press a gear set button to change jobs
- Reel in your fish or empty line, get up from your chair and press a gear set button to change jobs.
- Finish your current synth (Don't whine to me about High-level recipes. If you just started, you know to use Reclaim; if you don't have CP for Reclaim, you have time to finish off your synth), and press a gear set button to change jobs.
- Abandon your Leve, take a moment to dance in despair and press a gear set button to change jobs
- Exit a maximum of 5 windows on your retainer, blow them a kiss goodbye and press a gear set button to change jobs.
- Finish tending/fertilising your current plant, do a couple more, and press a gear set button to change jobs.
- Finish watching a chocobo feeding CS, exit the menu and press a gear set button to change jobs.
- Alt-tab back into the game, de-afk and press a gear set button to change jobs.
- Repair your items via NPC, exit the menu and press a gear set button to change jobs.

What 45 seconds is not long enough for
- Cutscenes which are not skippable
- Long loading screens due to hardware/S rank in the zone.
- Errors due to DDoS attacks and server/net problems

You're given 3 strikes. If your "babylifebffjill" causes you to miss the confirmation that many times, then tough luck. Ever since they added this new system in, in progress fishers are completely gone and withdrawals in general are extremely low.

I love the new system. yaaay

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Originally Posted by Fated

You're given 3 strikes. If your "babylifebffjill" causes you to miss the confirmation that many times, then tough luck. Ever since they added this new system in, in progress fishers are completely gone and withdrawals in general are extremely low.

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You got to think why did in progress fishing happen? Well it because the game told you before you entered weather a dungeon is in progress or not. If they would of stopped telling people a dungeon was in progress then nobody could in progress fish anymore and you wouldn't have to penalize the whole playerbase because they missed a queue for 1 reason or another.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

You got to think why did in progress fishing happen? Well it because the game told you before you entered weather a dungeon is in progress or not. If they would of stopped telling people a dungeon was in progress then nobody could in progress fish anymore and you wouldn't have to penalize the whole playerbase because they missed a queue for 1 reason or another.

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No one gets penalized for missing A queue, they get penalized for missing THREE queues. That said, in progress fishers weren't the only reason the penalty was added(trolls, while not as widespread as progress fishers, were also a problem), so just doing what you suggested wouldn't have fixed the problem to the extent that what they actually did has.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

The incident that disturbed me was when I queued as PLD, saw a hunt near by, switched to BRD to participate and shortly after engaging the duty finder window popped. But I couldn't click in because I was the wrong class and it wouldn't let me change back. I kept moving farther and farther from the battle but it simply would not let me change back to PLD. Finally with two seconds to spare, it let me change back and I clicked in. But the whole experience was beyond agitating.

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You queued as a tank and expected to have time to do anything during the wait?

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Originally Posted by Zumi

You got to think why did in progress fishing happen? Well it because the game told you before you entered weather a dungeon is in progress or not. If they would of stopped telling people a dungeon was in progress then nobody could in progress fish anymore and you wouldn't have to penalize the whole playerbase because they missed a queue for 1 reason or another.

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EXACTLY.

Gating was sorely needed, but what we currently have is the worst implementation I've ever seen in a game.

My main is tank followed by healer and I know how spoiled tanks/healers get. They withdrawn in the past as they pleased just cuz they have instant or almost instant queues so they could stall as much as they want to preventing other players for getting into instances for the lack of a tank or healer. BUT I also got DPS and when you get in their shoes, and you are waiting hrs to queue for X instance it gets annoying each time someone withdraw and you have to wait many more minutes to get in.

So this must stay, its best for everyone. So just dont queue if you dont have the time and you wont get penalize.

It doesn't have to stay at all. There are many other ways of doing it besides bombing the base and hitting civilians with fallout.