2.2 has sucked all the fun out of the game...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Heroicbandit

They should take it from Blizzard who's said that this isn't a sustainable business model. When you alienate all but 5-10% of the player population from experiencing new content by making it inaccessible, you're not only wasting resources as a company, but potentially losing subscribers who feel like they aren't getting anywhere.

---

^ this. This game has always been marketed as a casual game. Then 2.2 comes and locks out 90% of the players from the new content. Good job SE keeping the top 10% happy and giving them something to brag about. The other 90% will just contemplate quitting in the meantime.

Would say there is a middle missing in content, because of how Ilevel is atm it's I guess perceived as two easy or two hard. Two easy being the 3 new HM dungeons, even with the lag against the Diabolos boss it was still easily beatable granted it did take more time and the brayflox dungeon HM is a bit of a joke.

Then there is Coil which is more difficult however it's less accessible in terms of only being able to do the content a few times ago. While we have Crystal Tower that may act as a middle between these difficulties, it's raid concept and the fact you can't exactly go with your own group doesn't give it the feel of a community/FC based content.

The way they tuned the ilevel for the latest dungeons is a step to small considering that the soldier tomes allow one to obtain i100 gear, so in essence you are entering an ilevel 55 dungeon with the ability to grant you i70(loot drops) i90(mytho tokens) and i100(soldier token) drops.

While they have found a good balance in terms of loot drop and distribution the difficulty curve is very skewed atm at least when it comes to potential rewards.

With 3 dungeons released they could make them more stepping stones rather than all being il55 such as
Brayflox HM=75 tomes, 10 soldier, i70 gear drop il55 requirement
Hatalia HM=50 tomes, 45 soldier, i70 gear drops, i65 requirement
Lost City=75 mytho, 45 soldier(25 mytho if soldier is capped). i70 gear drops(no darklight gear), i70/75 requirement

In this sense variety is offered, a player could focus on getting more mytho tomes in an easier dungeon while gearing up to 70 or focus getting a balance amount of tomes and gear or when they become strong enough can tackle the "toughest" of the new dungeons and be granted with the ability to gain more mytho tomes if they capped soldier.

It would at least grant more incentive to try the other dungeons since as it stands now the only reason to do one over the other mainly atm is to complete the atma books.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ulathskullsplitter

The other 90% will just contemplate quitting in the meantime.

---

I guess it's the casuals turn to doom and gloom.

There are many people doing new coil, levi and mog ex, you see tons of party finder groups for levi ex and mog all day since there is no lockout.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gold_Jacobson

This is how things are going to play out:
1. You are not really quitting, and you are just letting out some frustrations. Your friends really didn't even quit either, you just keep talking to each other, "Man, we should quit." But end up not.
2. You are going to see people in here respond how no one cares if you leave or not. You will argue with them.
3. You go back to playing and create another thread about threatening to quit after the next patch.

In the end though, no one, absolutely no one cares if you leave. If this patch "Sucked all the fun out of the game" then you weren't going to be around much longer anyway.

---

I usually just ignore offending and disrespectful comments like yours but I'm gonna clarify my intend here...


I posted this thread in the hope to send a message to SE what some people (and I know many) are not happy with the direction they took for this patch.
From my 8 man static, 2 deleted their character for good (1 even restored it through customer support but ended up deleting it again after a week) and 2 cancelled their subscription... Others not in my static have also stopped playing. So no, it's not just a made up story.
As for me quitting, I know people don't care and I don't care whether people care or not. I was never trying to get pity from the community.
I am though trying to let SE know that they are losing customers because of design decision that people don't approve and hopefully through this thread collect comments from other people that relate to my situation. A lot of people have something to complain about this patch so, this is a customer feedback to SE that I'm sharing to other people who'd want to chime.
If SE is pushing away fans of the game that have been playing daily for hours since day one, then I want them to know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Heroicbandit

They should take it from Blizzard who's said that this isn't a sustainable business model. When you alienate all but 5-10% of the player population from experiencing new content by making it inaccessible, you're not only wasting resources as a company, but potentially losing subscribers who feel like they aren't getting anywhere.

---

I never really played WoW that much. But didn't they start losing subscribers after they made everything more accessible to everyone? I.e. During Wotlk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ulathskullsplitter

^ this. This game has always been marketed as a casual game. Then 2.2 comes and locks out 90% of the players from the new content. Good job SE keeping the top 10% happy and giving them something to brag about. The other 90% will just contemplate quitting in the meantime.

---

Uh? The only content that is really "Locked out" is the new coil, since it requires a very skilled and organized team.

If you think battles like Leviathan aren't casual, then you have no idea what a true hardcore experience is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shinkyo

The crafting bench would be cool to make but if lvl 50 crafter could benefit from it since the 3 stars take a lot of CP.

---

I actually love the new patch, but I totally agree on this one. Whose idea was it exactly to make a 3 star piece of furniture that requires a myth material to make, thus really requiring not just a lvl 50 crafter but a high end lvl 50 crafter to make, NOT benefit the person making it? as such, its totally useless. either make it pure vanity (ie benefit to no one), or make it benefit everyone. otherwise its kinda a slap in the face.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taruranto

Uh? The only content that is really "Locked out" is the new coil, since it requires a very skilled and organized team.

If you think battles like Leviathan aren't casual, then you have no idea what a true hardcore experience is.

---

The majority of players in this game can't even try Leviathan because they are locked out of it being stuck on titan ex.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cearka

I actually love the new patch, but I totally agree on this one. Whose idea was it exactly to make a 3 star piece of furniture that requires a myth material to make, thus really requiring not just a lvl 50 crafter but a high end lvl 50 crafter to make, NOT benefit the person making it? as such, its totally useless.

---

I actually don't think it's a problem with things like that. Crafting and gathering has always been a service that you sell to others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indira

you wanna waste time being bored?
you wanna waste time having fun?

---

Exactly! The grinds are not even the least bit fun. I think the books are ok, but everything else is terrible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ulathskullsplitter

The majority of players in this game can't even try Leviathan because they are locked out of it being stuck on titan ex.

---

Then get good and do Titan Exe, ffs. They even added echo buff so you can go there under-geared.

Jesus, it's just 1 freacking fight. You think that's hard? Try doing CoP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taruranto

Uh? The only content that is really "Locked out" is the new coil, since it requires a very skilled and organized team.

If you think battles like Leviathan aren't casual, then you have no idea what a true hardcore experience is.

---

Unless you beat in FFXI the following (while still in Lvl 75 time) .. just to mention some:
Pandemonium Warden, Absolute Virtue, Each and every VHNM that was conisdered hard ... and to certain extend Dynamis Xarcabard, Dynamis in CoP areas, finished Aegis/Gjallerhorn
You neither have an idea what "true" hardcore experience is.

Oh and CoP Airship fight, was annoying, but not as annoying as any Titan encounter.

For a lot of people in this game Titan Ex and also Titan HM are hardcore and very far away from casual. Not having done Leviathan yet, I wouldn't be surprised if some would consider him too Hardcore

In FFXIV the idea of Hardcore is different in almost everyone. Come on Atma farming isn't hardcore .. it is just tedious

-----------

That said, I too feel 2.2 has kinda sucked out the fun. But not because Atma farming is annoying. Not because certain encounters only can be done when Titan Ex has been cleared.
Everything pre 2.2 feels even more cookie cutter than before. People where before 2.2 quite nasty when it came to coil drops. Now 1-5 is a "Well at least I cleared it 1oo times" because people greed on everything

The community became even more toxic..... or maybe it's just balmung.

the trouble with the 2.2, if they have gone from a game open, that allows a large portion of the community try stuff to a model that only emphasis on hardcore and raider player leaving all the other out... hoping they will be happy with the content of the 2.0-2.1.... why most of the player will be happy to see that SE simply want to satisfy something like 5-10% of the community? it's stupid.

they try to please the wrong part of the community. the worst is this part of the community have already destroy levi ex... mog ex... BC2 t6-7-8 and even get animus... after less of 2 week. what the point? before the end of the first month T9 will have fall and this same part of the community that was complaining that the game was casual and that they had nothing to do...will complain one more time because the game will be too casual and they have nothing to do.
because most of the hardcore and raider... either have tons of play time or focus solely on one aspect of the game. why try to please them? i means it's impossible to please them! they will always find a way extremely efficient to get what they want really fast. like the 2 boss farming of brayflox.

this patch was made for please a part of the community that will never be happy whatever you do, whatever you trying to accomplish they will always complain at sometimes that they have nothing to do.

Yoshida have said in interview that they try to balance the time spend for allow big player to stilll have something to do... sadly by doing this they make most of the playerbase be stuck for age for get to the same point. it's an error to even take in account the hardcore gamer into the balance... since the time spend in the game is too important for be counter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amberion

I never really played WoW that much. But didn't they start losing subscribers after they made everything more accessible to everyone? I.e. During Wotlk.

---

Yes and no. They plateaued during WotLK. They've also been around for about 10 years and when they're still nearly 8 million strong, it's very much healthy. Their approach to content now is more or less of an Easy(Raid Finder) Medium(Standard Raid) and Hard(Hardmode Raid) for those that play. Of course Hardmode players get the highest item level loot and deservedly so but at least those that are less skilled at the game can still run the content and get some sort of reward for doing it. Cater to all. Let the pros brag about their hard earned accomplishments and let the less skilled enjoy the game at their own level without roadblocking. Win win for everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taruranto

Then get good and do Titan Exe, ffs. They even added echo buff so you can go there under-geared.

Jesus, it's just 1 freacking fight. You think that's hard? Try doing CoP.

---

Apples and Oranges, CoP was hard for different reasons, not because of latency and lag effecting players standing in AoE zones.

Echo buff does nothing if you are knocked off the edge because you thought you were out of a landslide when in actual fact you weren't.

Sums up the new generation of gamers. Just want everything handed to them on a silver platter.

Grinding is a part of MMOs. Deal with it.

Grinding can be fun, if you find a group of nice people and make some fun out of it. Also, don't grind for hours on end because any task that's repetitive gets boring quick. Mix things up between grinds, and I don't mean find something else to do in ARR, play another game for a few hours. Nobody is forcing you to grind every hour of every day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vondoomervil

Sums up the new generation of gamers. Just want everything handed to them on a silver platter.

---

the new generation of player want challenging and fun stuff to do... not mindless grind unrewarding.
grind is the level 0 of the difficulty. no real skill asked, no real fun, no real challenge... it's something for the people that don't want to get into challenge.

Yeah, I'm not really a fan of 2.2 either. I'm gated out of most of the new content. All I can really do is farm a crapton more myths for gear that's now out of date.

Quote:

---

Then get good and do Titan Exe, ffs. They even added echo buff so you can go there under-geared.

---

Echo does pretty much nothing for Titan EX. Gear barely matters either, because anything that damages you aside from stomps will usually kill you outright. I'm i90; I'm sure plenty of other people doing the fight with me are i90; Titan doesn't care.

Quote:

---

Jesus, it's just 1 freacking fight. You think that's hard? Try doing CoP.

---

Nothing in CoP gave me as much trouble as this fight has.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynlar

Echo does pretty much nothing for Titan EX. Gear barely matters either, because anything that damages you aside from stomps will usually kill you outright. I'm i90; I'm sure plenty of other people doing the fight with me are i90; Titan doesn't care.

---

I have to agree with this. Thought I'd try to DF Titan Extreme last night, ended up getting to 25% Echo buff (11k HP Warrior woohoo!), but the duty still ended up in the Vote Abandon. I pressed No, but it ended up being abandoned anyway...

For 2.2, I think the content I'm having the most fun with are Leviathan Extreme and The Second Coil of Bahamut. I've yet to try Moogle Extreme, but I heard that's really fun as well. The only thing I don't like is I have to PF all the above content, I wish they'd at least make the new EM Primals DF-able, as the previous 3 were DF-able on release as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

Apples and Oranges, CoP was hard for different reasons, not because of latency and lag effecting players standing in AoE zones.

Echo buff does nothing if you are knocked off the edge because you thought you were out of a landslide when in actual fact you weren't.

---

Latency and lag are a sizable amount lower now as opposed to rerelease. If you are still having that issue, maybe you should start looking for problems on your end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kimikryo

Unless you beat in FFXI the following (while still in Lvl 75 time) .. just to mention some:
Pandemonium Warden, Absolute Virtue, Each and every VHNM that was conisdered hard ... and to certain extend Dynamis Xarcabard, Dynamis in CoP areas, finished Aegis/Gjallerhorn
You neither have an idea what "true" hardcore experience is.

---

No one beat AV without exploits.
No one beat PW until it was nerfed due to bad press.
Having a relic pre-dynamis change just proved you were a selfish and manipulative.
Ground Kings were only rewarded to whoever had the best packet bot.

All 3 of those things were horribly designed, and I wouldn't classify any of them as hardcore--just stupid. Mostly only the people that played through RMT, or tagging along with people who did got to experience those things.

The problem is tediousness as you said, and it needs to be addressed.

Yes, last week right after a major patch. But then there was also maintenance that addressed the issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynlar

Nothing in CoP gave me as much trouble as this fight has.

---

Because FFXI doesn't use terrible mechanics to make fights hard.

When you dodge something, you know you dodged it, when you use a skill, you know it's going to come out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doo

Because FFXI doesn't use terrible mechanics to make fights hard.

When you dodge something, you know you dodged it, when you use a skill, you know it's going to come out.

---

just a question, recall me the time between each action in FF11?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silentwindfr

it's something for the people that don't want to get into challenge

---

Actually, some people like grinding and they also like beating their faces against challenging content. I happen to be one of them. Just because you don't like one of the options doesn't mean you know jack about the mindset of people who do. It's rampant on these forums.

Don't like a grind? Don't do a grind. Don't like a challenge? Don't do the challenge. The game doesn't give you every little thing you want? Find one that does. Oh, wait, you won't find one that does.

It seems to me that there was a shift in 2.2 toward slowing down the mad dash to get everything and finish everything as quickly as possible. Pre-2.2, it was still a grind. It was just a much faster grind (for gear, Relic, etc). I won't say the new generation of gamers, as a whole, wants everything handed to them but there does seem to be a need for instant gratification rather than steadily working toward something.

Tell me something - what would happen to these forums if the majority of posters stopping thinking they know the minds of people who happen to like something said posters dislike? Maybe they'd implode from the pure rational thought. That would be something to see.

no the 2.2 was clearly an attempt to please Hardcore player and raider. that was complaining that the game was too casual. old player that love grind must be happy, sadly grind was never fun.
i'm an hardcore gamer, i spend really a lot of time in the game. but i can admit when a grind is stupid and not fun (i'm at my second atma weapon just for the skin)

RNG/Grind are the level 0 of the difficulty that you can make in a mmorpg. for a long time it was the only thing that company was able to offer for keep player in them game while waiting new content. often coming after 6-8 month of waiting.
there we simply wait 3 month... then what is the point of grind that will take age at complet, since the content after 12 week will be increase. indeed we can argue that it give a long term goal. but still you have many way to do it. we have acces to a better technology than at the time of WoW debut or FF11. maybe time to use it. we can do an old fashioned game and still bring new type of content.

I agree with OP. I think 2.2 shows the game is going wrong, conflicts with the original idea brought to us by YoshiP.

If current out come is expected, why YoshiP not response to players just like he did fast response and explain for housing price.

Btw, If all the "problems" are not problems,
then in next patch we may have something like 88FATE grind for the new Constellations quest after Zodiac.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ulathskullsplitter

^ this. This game has always been marketed as a casual game. Then 2.2 comes and locks out 90% of the players from the new content. Good job SE keeping the top 10% happy and giving them something to brag about. The other 90% will just contemplate quitting in the meantime.

---

no, this is where you are completely wrong. this game was not marketed as a casual game from the start. in fact it was marketed completely opposite of it. the only reason it's that way now is because a bunch of generation me cry babies went crying because the game wanted people to actually work for what they got. they changed it to the current direction and added everything(besides the atma/anubis grind) for those people. if they have an issue and quit over one piece of content i will be glad to see each and every single one of them go because the rest of the game is catered towards them. that's what they've told anyone asking for this type of content for over a year now and it's time they get a taste of their own medicine.

Level 50 player grinding a level 2 fate for hours/days to get a level 100 weapon makes perfect sense to me! The only reason why were grinding the fates is because fates were dead for new players. This is a half ass attempt to make low level fates alive again. Only it didn't work because high level players are raping low level fates and low levels cant get gold. I really had a lot of faith in SE until 2.2. PS4 ESO beta is soon and if I like the game I am not going to think twice about making the switch to ESO!

In 2.3 they'll adjust the ATMA grind (possibly sooner) and make Sands/Oils/Unidentified Tomes available in Coil1 or new CT. If you don't think that's going to happen, you're delusional. Enjoy your special snowflake i110 raiding gear while it lasts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silentwindfr

snip

---

I disagree with your argument that 2.2 was solely an attempt to please the "hardcore player".


First, nothing in this game is hardcore. Nothing. Challenging for the majority, perhaps, but in no way hardcore.

Second, the grind (at least for Atma and Masterwork) actually gives the casual player a very easy way to progress their gear. Unfortunately, that truly is messing with lower level players who are trying to do Fates, as well, if the level 50's are excluding them from Fate parties. But, how many people complaining about that are actually making parties and welcoming low level players into them? Very few, I suspect, so that complaint really holds no water for me unless it's made by the low level players who are struggling due to that.

Also, the echo buffs will make Coil 1-5 much more accessible to players who were struggling with it prior to 2.2. They may only get ilvl 90 gear from doing it, but they will be clearing content they were not clearing (and for some, not even attempting) before. Ironically, that is an idea that many who are complaining about ilvl110 gear only coming from Coils 6-9 conveniently ignore when they talk about "hardcore" raiders only caring about having max level gear. Go figure. Anyway. The new primals do require the previous ones to be cleared, but again, those should now be more accessible (discounting latency, which we all know has been an intermittent problem) to the more casual player. There are challenge logs. There are vanity items to go find, new mounts and minions for those who like them. Crafting. There are all sorts of things for the those who are not, by your definition, "hardcore", to do and to catch up on. There are also things that slow those who rush through the hardest content. It is a balance, and while it isn't perfect, it's probably more balanced that it was pre-2.2 simply because so many have not even finished half of the pre-patch content yet. Could it be improved upon in future patches to give a wider variety of challenging content? Absolutely. But your overarching statement is still just that... overarching.

Third, there were plenty of "hardcore" gamers who sat back pre-2.2 when the game very much catered to the more casual players and we just had fun with the game. I personally didn't focus on only one thing. Certainly, there were plenty who complained that content was too easy and too quickly cleared. That is because nothing in this game is hardcore. So, pleasing those players doesn't happen by introducing a longer grind. Pleasing those players happens by making extremely challenging content, and more of it. The only thing these two opposing ideas have in common is that they both hinder the rate in which the majority of players will attain items/gear.

How many players of each mindset actually use the forums? How many are vocal about what they want and don't want? I think more than 5-10% of the player base wanted a little taste of old school gaming in ARR. Most of them likely didn't come to the forums and voice it. For example, the majority of my FC wanted more challenge, but they don't use the forums at all. Conversely, how many of the more casual players use the forums? I honestly don't know what the estimate on that would be, but I suspect it's higher simply due to the number of threads I've seen since launch complaining about content that is actually not in any way a challenge, or how people are too mean, or any number of things that point to that mindset.

All in all, some of the new grind does give something to do to those who truly don't enjoy a challenge. Some of it doesn't. Just because the balance doesn't weigh as heavily in some aspects toward the casual gamer doesn't mean there is a terrible balance. It just means that for the time being, it's a different one.

Oh I'll be frank. I'm hating the Atma grind so far. (I've only got a single Atma after a few days of running the fates). But I can't think of Atma farming as 'hardcore' stuff as I've seen some call it. It's more of a 'how long can you handle tedium' sort of thing. And hey, some people have more tolerance for it than others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

In 2.3 they'll adjust the ATMA grind (possibly sooner) and make Sands/Oils/Unidentified Tomes available in Coil1 or new CT. If you don't think that's going to happen, you're delusional. Enjoy your special snowflake i110 raiding gear while it lasts.

---

that would be completely fine with me.

i just don't think the highest tier of gear should be easy to get as soon as it's released. i see no issue with it being made easier to get later on. it's like they did the extremes. you hear none of the players that already beat the extremes complaining about echo buff nor coil 1-5 being made able to be farmed. it's because they were already able to clear the content while it was difficult and they have moved to the next challenge. making it hard to start and easier later allows everyone to have access over time. no, it may not be accessible on day 1 due to time or skill, but it will be eventually. i don't understand why people are upset they can't beat the new content when they haven't even cleared the old stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

snip

---

This. A thousand times this. It's how the majority of MMO's have worked for years, and I couldn't care less about things being easier to get when newer content goes live. I'll be busy trying out the newer content, just as I am now. :) And I'll actually be happy for those who will have more access to the actual content, if not the newest items.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silentwindfr

the new generation of player want challenging and fun stuff to do... not mindless grind unrewarding.

---

Atma quest isn't the only thing they added in 2.2, you know...

Levi X.
Moogle X.
Coils.
3 new dungeons.

And people still haven't finished 2.1 content, with titan X being the blocker.

I don't know about you, but I'm finding Levi and Moogle X lots of fun, with a chance at reward. The guy above moaning about i100 neck piece being shit, might as well not have any middle ground progression and skip right to coils after coils, ya?

Amdapor City, while easy, is probably the most aesthetically beautiful designed dungeon there is. I can go in there, not for the reward, but just for the atmosphere and beauty.

If your focus is all just about the loot loot and not the journey, then I really can't help you.

i love how people try to make all look like they want.

let's talk of the atma/animus, since you say it's casual. i gonna give you some number... i did them on another forum but let's redo this there.
1 book cost 1500 myth. an casual player in a team will take 15-25 minute per dungeon. if he don't use the duty and simply do it normal, the dungeon will give 50 myth.
per book it will be 450 minutes to 750 minutes (7.5 hrs to 12.5 hrs) for get the myth. i don't count the duty roulette, mostly because the best way to get instant dungeon for a casual is do a team.
a book can take between 3 at 5 hrs to complete (if you have no luck with the FATE spawn)
ok there we have the number for 1 book, we need 9 book for get the animus! leading to 67.5 hrs to 112.5 hrs for the myth part and if you add the completion of the book to it 27hrs to 45hrs... giving as final time: 94.5 hrs to 157.5hrs (people can go faster or take more time keep it in head)

a casual will spend 2-3 hrs per day to play the game. let's be generous 3 hrs per day, leading in total of day of gaming for a casual : 32 day at 53 day... at do nothing else than this. and i didn't even take in account the atma part... some player have get still no atma in 9 days.
where this is casual? the next patch 2.3 it 12 week after the 2.2 meaning 84 days... if the casual is lucky he will spend less of 1/3 of the whole 2.2 at farm for get ONE animus and if he is not lucky... he will spend more of 2/3 of the 2.2 at get it.
and the best... the 2.25 bring another step to the quest line....

other point, now, if you look at the whole content of the 2.2... you will notice that the true progress and reward are not for casual. crafting are a joke almost a slap in the face of the crafter. taking more time and gils for get a 3 star in HQ. that barely better than what you can get with myth and BC1. indeed if you invest more gils into it... it will be better. meaning more farming for get the gils and the materia meld.

show me any content added with the 2.2 that are casual friendly? none is casual friendly. Hardcore and Raider have cry rive because people was able to get myth stuff that was as strong than the stuff you was getting into raid. Yoshida itself have admit that player didn't had incentive reason to do this content. when the trouble was not the loot... but the lockout used.

everyone is saying people want fast reward... but just like this. if someone did begin with the 2.1 even with the myth, it did take him 11 weeks for get the whole set. and the 2.2 have arrive 12 week after.

Hardcore and Raider don't want the other to get the same treatment...for them, it can be only one hard content raid and if you can get something as good by doing something else... is not good! check the thread about this on the same forum. some was even saying nothing can be as hard than raid was is a false... they can make any sort of content more hard than raid!

ps: levi and mog X can't be done if you haven't done garuda, ifrit and titan X.
BC2 can't be done if you don't have clean T5.
the new dungeon are not even hard, it's for allows new player to catch up and get i70 stuff.
in many server the community don't allows new player or people out of a static to get in a PF group. you need to be exp and you can't get exp from DF....

With respect, I have to assume that English is not your first language, but I am trying to have a good understanding of what you're typing.


Time does not equal challenge. It equals time. So I maintain that getting Atma and ilvl100 gear is not a challenge. It may be hindered by time constraint, however, it is not a challenge. You, yourself, stated that the grind is for those who don't want a challenge, which is an inaccurate generalization. Your focus seems to be heavily on the Atma farm. Atma is, in no way, the only feature of 2.2. It is an option for those who have the time and do not want to or can not upgrade their weapons via other means, and even for those who just like doing that sort of thing.

Crafting is not and likely will never be a focus in this game. That is a shame, however, there are crafters on my server having a good ol' time getting their Master books and enjoying the challenge of the 3 Star recipes not being 100% HQ as they were used to having for older items.

I already showed you the rewards in place for the more casual player. Just because all of the rewards are not ilvl110 gear with little time invested does not mean they are not rewards that were not yet accessible to the casual player.

Again, you are making generalizations about what other people think. I used to be a hardcore raider (not enough time or energy for that anymore) and I still raid extensively, and I do not begrudge players access to awesome items. I do understand why max level raid gear should come solely from the most difficult raid content. I also think it would be very cool for there to be other types of gear with different stats of the same level designed for other content, such as solo challenge bosses which require resistances, etc, or extremely difficult (raid boss level) treasure map bosses. That is why I say more variety would be good in terms of what challenging content is available. Certainly, those with time constraints could benefit highly from something like that, and it would not disrupt the balance the devs are trying to find with how gear is distributed. It is not about not wanting another player to get an item that is just as good. It's more desirable for another player to get something just as good for the content they are doing, not for doing lesser content.

Even considering your comment about Myth, I still don't consider it a slow grind for the casual to have a full set of Myth gear with 3 months to spare before 2.2 went live. That's pretty fast, actually, considering that some raiders waited months before getting even one Coil drop. And now, with limited means to fill in the gaps with gear of equal item level while waiting for Coil drops, the casual will likely have a full set of content appropriate level gear (ilvl100) long before a raider will have a full set of max level Coil gear. That is not to say that one is better than the other. However, it is to say that the casual will still fully benefit for the content they're actually doing (not too many casuals are going to be in T9 in the very near future) in a shorter span of time. The gear distribution debate is one that is getting old after all the threads thus far and frankly, the devs will either stick to their guns or they won't. Time will tell, but I don't think either side will convince the other.

I know the new content can not be unlocked until the old content is finished. That is not a bad thing. That is finishing what you start before moving on to the next. It actually encourages people to finish the content instead of just skipping over what they felt was too difficult, only to complain that the newer content is also... you guessed it... too difficult.

The bottom line is that there absolutely is plenty to keep people busy at the moment, and there are actually many happy casuals right now doing things they could not do before, and many love 2.2 because they aren't focused on what they can't get that someone else can and are just having fun trying things. It's all in how you look at it.

Levi EX, Moogle EX, Gilgamesh, new dungeons and new Coils what I've seen up to turn 7 are all fun. Can't blame you for wanting to also complete the Atma quest and focus more on that though, unlike a very vocal minority of people who love apologizing for the mistakes of others. It's just plain simply a badly designed RNG gate for an arguably even more time consuming quest, I've been sitting here waiting for one of the book FATEs to pop for about 2 hours doing practically nothing except trying to clear other FATEs hoping the one I actually need finally pops and this is just my second book.

It really makes no sense they put this behind an all luck and resilience based grind, aside from the obvious PS4 launch, since the books already mostly reward effort and allow you to make consistent progress at your own pace. If your FATE doesn't pop then you can queue for the dungeon part or go hunt the mobs or do the leves or farm more myth for the next book unless the last thing you need is a FATE that takes 3 hours to pop. It's designed to be a time consuming quest at its finest and that's fine, the real bad decision was gating it behind an entirely RNG based grind that might have sounded good in the planning stages but ended up screwing a big chunk of the playerbase.