Matsui's battle system information - Next week!

If the system sounds interesting, I'll give coming back to the game a shot. :)

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Originally Posted by Evangelus

I hope he will explain the system with important details (images, video for example)

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That would be great.

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Originally Posted by Evangelus

i think it's the next step

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It would have to be, as Yoshi-P and crew have been saying constantly that they really cant bring any substantial content changes (not just Notorious Monsters, those shouldnt take that much to tweak) without having the framework for the new ( and hopefully well thought out that actually takes stats into consideration and increases the amounts of normal parties) battle system.

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Originally Posted by Foxclon

No worries, I'm not Yoshi-P :D
And one more "no-worries": we will publish Matsui's comment regarding battle system in all four languages at the same time. Please be patient for some more days.

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I saw the icon and thought I posted this. "I don't remember being awake at 5am..." This forum ain't big enough for two people with the same icon!

But seriously, thanks for the heads up Foxclon! :) (Told you guys SOMETHING was coming.)

!

*REP BATTLE*

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

I saw the icon and thought I posted this. "I don't remember being awake at 5am..." This forum ain't big enough for two people with the same icon!

But seriously, thanks for the heads up Foxclon! :) (Told you guys SOMETHING was coming.)

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Hey you already told us the thing I want they are going to try and work into the PS3 release so I'm happy. All this other stuff is butter on my bread.

Also, Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn is Beautiful. Give my thanks to Yoshida (Artist) for proving a large physically dominating woman can be beautiful.

I wonder if this is going to be put into one big letter from the producer on Monday, with Matsui comments + Yoshi-P stuff...

Would be nice if we got new dungeon, battle system, and job system among other things all in one letter :p

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

!

*REP BATTLE*

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Should i open another thread with "GM controlled mob vs GM controlled mob" in game?

lol :D

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Originally Posted by Munba

Should i open another thread with "GM controlled mob vs GM controlled mob" in game?

:D

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Two Marlboros controlled by GM's fighting for an icon on a webforum. Epic.

It's like Godzilla vs Space Godzilla

I think its cute Bayohne is jealous that someone else came into his realm.


Its almost like loves us ; ;

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Originally Posted by Rau

I think its cute Bayohne is jealous that someone else came into his realm.


Its almost like loves us ; ;

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I think it's creepy you're seeking the love of a slimey Marlboro.

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Originally Posted by Verecund

It's like Godzilla vs Space Godzilla

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Can we put that in ffxiv now? ;D I wanna fight Godzilla fighting Space Godzilla! >XD

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Originally Posted by Sephr

I think it's creepy you're seeking the love of a slimey Marlboro.

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Its the eye.

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Originally Posted by Rau

I think its cute Bayohne is jealous that someone else came into his realm.


Its almost like loves us ; ;

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Bayohne is the best Community Rep He's like on a Post Rampage! :D Go Bayohne Go!

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

I saw the icon and thought I posted this. "I don't remember being awake at 5am..." This forum ain't big enough for two people with the same icon!

But seriously, thanks for the heads up Foxclon! :) (Told you guys SOMETHING was coming.)

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At least you have more than XI's forums. There you're limited to Moogle, Magian Moogle, and Nomad Moogle!

More importantly, FFXIV has a disturbing lack of Mandragoras. Tell the Dev team to hurry up and get our beloved Mandragoras (Hopefully with some of the XII variations like Alraune and Nightshade) and add those for the Community team to use. I loved the fact that in Dissidia Duodecium they recognized the devout following of the XI Mandragoras.

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Originally Posted by Rau

I think its cute Bayohne is jealous that someone else came into his realm.


Its almost like loves us ; ;

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lol!

Bayohne:"Awww my little chiglets. :3"

I'd laugh if the explanation of the battle system was something like: "thanks for waiting, we intend to release the combat improvements sometime in October with Patch 1.9a. We have decided to include auto-attack because we think it is integral to the new battle system. I hope players look forward to the changes coming in Patch 1.9a!"

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

I'd laugh if the explanation of the battle system was something like: "thanks for waiting, we intend to release the combat improvements sometime in October with Patch 1.9a. We have decided to include auto-attack because we think it is integral to the new battle system. I hope players look forward to the changes coming in Patch 1.9a!"

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That would break my little... ummm..

SPLEEN!

(Cause i have no heart. :P)

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

I'd laugh if the explanation of the battle system was something like: "thanks for waiting, we intend to release the combat improvements sometime in October with Patch 1.9a. We have decided to include auto-attack because we think it is integral to the new battle system. I hope players look forward to the changes coming in Patch 1.9a!"

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I doubt they will do that, They really need to get this out in the open since technically were still in beta test it wouldnt hurt to get it out there and have the people say if its good or bad

We'll find out soon enough if the last 4 months really were primarily focussed on this engine as the game's top priority, or if that promise was just a ruse so they could buy more time. I really hope it's more than auto attack, minor change in stamina usea, and tightening of the stats, because to the players that should take about three weeks to hammer down, not three months.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

We'll find out soon enough if the last 4 months really were primarily focussed on this engine as the game's top priority, or if that promise was just a ruse so they could buy more time. I really hope it's more than auto attack, minor change in stamina usea, and tightening of the stats, because to the players that should take about three weeks to hammer down, not three months.

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If auto-attack is a known inclusion of this battle update, then it's a safe assumption that reformatting of stat formulas will go along with that.

This isn't expecting too much either. You cannot add in auto-attack and have it not have an effect on everything else. I see where you're coming from in not expecting too much, though. It's just common sense that those things would follow auto-attack. No?

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

If auto-attack is a known inclusion of this battle update, then it's a safe assumption that reformatting of stat formulas will go along with that.

This isn't expecting too much either. You cannot add in auto-attack and have it not have an effect on everything else. I see where you're coming from in not expecting too much, though. It's just common sense that those things would follow auto-attack. No?

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Obviously stats will be balanced.

I think that much is obvious. Beyond obvious!

I mean, think of it this way: if it takes the whole FFXIV development team 6 months to add in auto attack and reshuffle stats, then that rate of change doesn't bode well for SE's future at all. It's a sad indictment on their progress if we can even entertain the notion that such things might not be implemented.

I dont mean to start a controversy, but I look at other games like ArcheAge (where every week it's like they are showing two new zones or more, and they already have well over 10 anyway). I look at games like TERA that released with so many different areas and multiple instances.

How SE could expect to contend if they were to just add auto-attack and reshuffle stats (which isn't exactly an alluring change anyway) is beyond comprehension.

Which is why I am sure they have more in store for us than simply auto-attack and some relevant adjustments.

Definately looking forward to the pending Information.

Hopefully they don't just throw in auto-attack and call it a day... I at least hope they focus on making stamina a little more fun and interactive

i wouldnt get too amped, what really are you expecting other than auto attack? what would really make combat better that wouldnt require totally different skills?

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

Obviously stats will be balanced.

I think that much is obvious. Beyond obvious!

I mean, think of it this way: if it takes the whole FFXIV development team 6 months to add in auto attack and reshuffle stats, then that rate of change doesn't bode well for SE's future at all. It's a sad indictment on their progress if we can even entertain the notion that such things might not be implemented.

I dont mean to start a controvery, but I look at other games like ArcheAge (where every week it's like they are showing two new zones or more, and they already have well over 10 anyway). I look at games like TERA that released with so many different areas and multiple instances.

How SE could except to contend if they were to just add auto-attack and reshuffle stats (which isn't exactly an alluring change anyway) is beyond comprehension.

Which is why I am sure they have more in store for us than simply auto-attack and some relevant adjustments.

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They are overhauling (keyword there: overhauling) the battle system to induce more strategy in the battles themselves...even thinking that its only going to be "auto-attack" is stupid.

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Originally Posted by Physic

i wouldnt get too amped, what really are you expecting other than auto attack? what would really make combat better that wouldnt require totally different skills?

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By including auto-attack you have to change everything else in some way. There are balancing issues by including auto-attack and not altering the formulas, stamina costs (if there is even a stamina bar in the end), TP costs, WS modifiers and spell modifiers.

All of these things not only change our potency in our classes, but how we play and how we build our character. If they just include auto-attack and be the end of it, not only is that incredibly ignorant on the developer's part, it's just as ignorant for the client to assume there isn't more along with it's implementation.

Adjusting the formulas could also mean the possibility for specific class allotment as well. Something many people are waiting for so they can viably play between a war and magic class.

There are good reasons to speculate that this will be a big change. Even though your eyes cannot see it, a lot changes with auto-attack.

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Originally Posted by Physic

i wouldnt get too amped, what really are you expecting other than auto attack? what would really make combat better that wouldnt require totally different skills?

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You have to look at it as a whole. Of course at face value it might just be auto attack, but how they balance mobs and player's actions along with that, how they alter mob behavior, how the battle feels, that's what matters. Its not just going to be "add auto attack and lets move on" that's just stupid. But for those who are expecting the battle system to turn into something like Blade and Souls, you might as well quit the game today.

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Originally Posted by Mack

You have to look at it as a whole. Of course at face value it might just be auto attack, but how they balance mobs and player's actions along with that, how they alter mob behavior, how the battle feels, that's what matters. Its not just going to be "add auto attack and lets move on" that's just stupid. But for those who are expecting the battle system to turn into something like Blade and Souls, you might as well quit the game today.

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Why quit now? Blade & Soul isn't out yet.

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

Why quit now? Blade & Soul isn't out yet.

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Meh, you guys don't learn but just like FFXIV was hyped to be the next WoW before release, B&S can disappoint and will disappoint.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

By including auto-attack you have to change everything else in some way. There are balancing issues by including auto-attack and not altering the formulas, stamina costs (if there is even a stamina bar in the end), TP costs, WS modifiers and spell modifiers.

All of these things not only change our potency in our classes, but how we play and how we build our character. If they just include auto-attack and be the end of it, not only is that incredibly ignorant on the developer's part, it's just as ignorant for the client to assume there isn't more along with it's implementation.

Adjusting the formulas could also mean the possibility for specific class allotment as well. Something many people are waiting for so they can viably play between a war and magic class.

There are good reasons to speculate that this will be a big change. Even though your eyes cannot see it, a lot changes with auto-attack.

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oh i know that there will be a lot of balancing with auto attack, but how is that really going to change the feel of combat for the people who wanted it changed? i mean it will be pretty different for me, but the vibe i got from people who want it changed was that they were just spamming 1. They may drastically alter the combat but i doubt it, its just going to be a watered down version of what we have now. possibly with weapon delay in there, which i dunno how thats going to feel

lets think about it, as far as actual battle, the only feature they mentioned was auto attack. they can juggle around the rest of the game, but juggling and rebalancing isnt really adding anything, they most likely arent going to change the skills, or the interactions, i doubt we will see combos, im just saying what do you see them changing other than auto attack and tweaks around auto attack.

there may be some interesting things coming, like dunegons, hubs, they may make some skills class exclusive, but combat? its probably just going to be more ffxi like but slightly faster.

the real key to making combat feel more entertaining will be when they make monsters tougher or increase the exp cap, and add monsters that roam in packs and varied monster type groups.

It will be interesting to see what they come up with, but i wouldnt get to crazy considering this is just supposed to be the 1st part of the battle additions. Far as stats, i dont see them doing anything drastic with them this patch, maybe in the second part. Fixed stats per class kind of sucks, but its probably what we are going to get.

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Originally Posted by Physic

oh i know that there will be a lot of balancing with auto attack, but how is that really going to change the feel of combat for the people who wanted it changed? i mean it will be pretty different for me, but the vibe i got from people who want it changed was that they were just spamming 1. They may drastically alter the combat but i doubt it, its just going to be a watered down version of what we have now. possibly with weapon delay in there, which i dunno how thats going to feel

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If you look at their plans for their battle system in previous fan site interviews, along with auto-attack there is mention of skills, stat formulas, and modifiers being adjusted in order to make these changes cohesive. How this changes the battle system and makes things different is very simple. You have to rethink how to build your class. Also, we will be seeing a change in mob difficulty and strategy. They could very well change mob behavior to not over power the new implementation of battle changes.

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Originally Posted by Physic

lets think about it, as far as actual battle, the only feature they mentioned was auto attack. they can juggle around the rest of the game, but juggling and rebalancing isnt really adding anything, they most likely arent going to change the skills, or the interactions, i doubt we will see combos, im just saying what do you see them changing other than auto attack and tweaks around auto attack.

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This is where I think you're completely wrong. Balancing is adding something because it is altering skill modifiers and stat formulas. Making the stat formulas more potent, but shrinking the pool adds several layers to one class in terms of allotment. This is when you actually start to work out builds specific to the user's play style.

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Originally Posted by Physic

It will be interesting to see what they come up with, but i wouldnt get to crazy considering this is just supposed to be the 1st part of the battle additions. Far as stats, i dont see them doing anything drastic with them this patch, maybe in the second part. Fixed stats per class kind of sucks, but its probably what we are going to get.

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Again, you cannot add in or take out any system and not have it effect the rest of the game. When you say, "Meh, they'll prolly just add in auto-attacks and not really change anything else." It just simply cannot work like that. I'm not demanding this, I'm simply stating a fact. You cannot add in or take out content especially involving the battle system while leaving everything else alone.

If you do this, you will fail. So, the expectations of the player base are not set very high and no one is getting "crazy". They are set to what is bare minimally practical.

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Originally Posted by Physic

oh i know that there will be a lot of balancing with auto attack, but how is that really going to change the feel of combat for the people who wanted it changed? i mean it will be pretty different for me, but the vibe i got from people who want it changed was that they were just spamming 1. They may drastically alter the combat but i doubt it, its just going to be a watered down version of what we have now. possibly with weapon delay in there, which i dunno how thats going to feel

lets think about it, as far as actual battle, the only feature they mentioned was auto attack. they can juggle around the rest of the game, but juggling and rebalancing isnt really adding anything, they most likely arent going to change the skills, or the interactions, i doubt we will see combos, im just saying what do you see them changing other than auto attack and tweaks around auto attack.

there may be some interesting things coming, like dunegons, hubs, they may make some skills class exclusive, but combat? its probably just going to be more ffxi like but slightly faster.

the real key to making combat feel more entertaining will be when they make monsters tougher or increase the exp cap, and add monsters that roam in packs and varied monster type groups.

It will be interesting to see what they come up with, but i wouldnt get to crazy considering this is just supposed to be the 1st part of the battle additions. Far as stats, i dont see them doing anything drastic with them this patch, maybe in the second part. Fixed stats per class kind of sucks, but its probably what we are going to get.

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Just having Auto Attack will change the whole damage calculation procedure, and will directly change even monster patterns. It's like suddenly allowing a calculator in a math test, the test itself will change because it has to accommodate the calculator, thus the people who take the test, study for the test, and the scoring itself will inevitably be changed.

Can you imagine long-handing a calculus test, or even a simple algebra test? Not anymore, you would spend half your time, carrying ones and double checking digits. Those test by giving you a calculator focuses are testing procedure and logic.

There's no such thing as a minor change when it comes to stuff like this. It maybe in waves, but even then, they'll be big waves.

Just look at FF11, auto attack itself grew tactics around equipment management, party communication, skill stacking, and timer counting.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Just having Auto Attack will change the whole damage calculation procedure, and will directly change even monster patterns. It's like suddenly allowing a calculator in a math test, the test itself will change because it has to accommodate the calculator, thus the people who take the test, study for the test, and the scoring itself will inevitably be changed.

Can you imagine long-handing a calculus test, or even a simple algebra test? Not anymore, you would spend half your time, carrying ones and double checking digits. Those test by giving you a calculator focuses are testing procedure and logic.

There's no such thing as a minor change when it comes to stuff like this. It maybe in waves, but even then, they'll be big waves.

Just look at FF11, auto attack itself grew tactics around equipment management, party communication, skill stacking, and timer counting.

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Your example does not apply to the current predicament. In a school/test setting you have students who are learning new material. In a corporate programming setting you have professionals who are hand picked, highly skilled, for the most part seasoned, and paid good money. An implementation of auto attack does not turn the game completely upside down.. were talking pretty simple balances for a corporate programing team.

Of course that is my honest opinion, I'm no programmer and i have only seen it done from a third party stand point, but how its explained to me does not sound like it would be considered an "overhaul" like Yoshi said.

Here's what I want to see when its all done over the next few updates.

- Classes to be unique, Conjurer's should have to pick whether they want to be a Black Mage or a White Mage, We don't need FFXI: SMN2.0 where you're only brought to the endgame event because you can cure people when we get more challenging content.

- Protect and Shell to last 30 minutes, All buff's are now auto-aoe.

- Stamina to either be removed or heavily modified so it doesn't hinder the speed of battle. I just think it slows down the battle pace way too much because you're waiting on it to refill to hit the next action.

- I would like to see an Aggro meter under the current targets HP BAR, 0-25% the bar is blue, 25-75% the bar is yellow, 75-100% you're about to get aggro and goes red.

- Abilities generate way to much aggro like Bloodbath, ferocity etc.

- Animation locks to be completely done away with. I like the sidestepping of certain tp moves but animation locking currently makes this a really bad mechanic.

- Active and passive mode done away with, seriously, its nothing but a slowdown and screws over abilities like "quickstride" by the time you go from active to passive 4-5 seconds is almost wasted. LNC's fleet of foot will have to be changed into a buff of some sort.

- Stats working, this just blows my mind they don't work correctly.

- DLVL becoming much more balanced, level difference is too overpowered in current combat.

This is basically what I'm expecting over the next few updates.

heres what im really getting at, yes auto attack will require some balancing, and require some new calculations to deal with it.
But how does that really change things in a way that makes everything better, i think some people are expecting too much in terms of change.
/like some one said its like adding a calculator to a test, its still a math class, if you had no problems doing hand calculations the test isnt really going to be THAT different. From how some people are talking, its like they expect these additions to turn it into a creative writing class or gym, its still gonna be a math class is what im saying.

I could be wrong, they could change the battle system qualitatively, but if they do it will have to involve some real new features, it wont really be about auto attack.

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Just look at FF11, auto attack itself grew tactics around equipment management, party communication, skill stacking, and timer counting.

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the only thing auto attack effected in ffxi is having to turn around mid fight, the only stat that effected auto attack was haste. party communication, skill stacking and timer counting have nothing to do with auto attack, and all are prevalent in this game when you fight real fights.

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This is where I think you're completely wrong. Balancing is adding something because it is altering skill modifiers and stat formulas. Making the stat formulas more potent, but shrinking the pool adds several layers to one class in terms of allotment. This is when you actually start to work out builds specific to the user's play style.

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making the stat formulas more potent may or may not happen, but auto attack does not require or even suggest that they would have to do this. All you have to do with auto attack, is decide how much of your damage you expect auto attack to do as compared with regular attacks now, then divide the effect. If you decide people were able to get 200 dps on monster thier level with normal attacks before, and you want them to get 100 dps with auto attacks now, you just have to divide the damage formula by 2.

Im just saying there really is no need to drastically rework stat calculations effect for the sake of auto attack, they may do it, but its not really required, and isnt really linked to them shrinking the stat pool. They could just as easily increase the stat pool.

Excellent points, I agree with most of it

I especially like this one:

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Originally Posted by Burn

- I would like to see an Aggro meter under the current targets HP BAR, 0-25% the bar is blue, 25-75% the bar is yellow, 75-100% you're about to get aggro and goes red.

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It might be hard to read with multiple targets, though.

All of that sounds so boring to me.

If I had to choose, I'd prefer they lean towards a more action-RPG type of battle system like Tera/Monster Hunter, but I guess we'll see what we're gonna be getting with the new battle system info next week.

I imagine it will be an evolved (and deeper) version of the FF11 one. We'll see.