White Raven earring given out at The Rising event 2018

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I mean, the Lodestone already puts dates on your achievements. They just aren’t documented to the minute.

---

Heh, goes to show how much "I" care about this sort of thing. I didn't even know it was already a thing.

For the most part, I'll just consider my point proven then. For the most part, because I'm not sure if the Rivenroad in particular had an achievement tied to it that would allow differentiation. But even then, people aren't clamoring to get one, but rather want a change to the item, so I'm not sure if that actually changes much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alimdia

Istaru, at the end of the day your experience is what matters, no one can take that away from you, the lack of artificial scarcity shouldn't retroactively diminish your experience.

---

You’re correct, giving away the earring does not remove my memories. I don’t think I said that, if I did, then I misspoke and i apologize.

https://i.imgur.com/oRxlGF6_d.jpg?ma...idelity=medium

Before anyone exclaims about it being Stormblood, I agree, it is Stormblood.

Seasonal event items, achievement reward items and seventh umbra era items were added during ARR. One of them, the moonlet, actually went straight to the cash shop.

When SE said all those things, like everyone else, I believed them. Why wouldn’t I? That is my point, I’m disappointed that I trusted them and it seems more and more that it was misplaced.

Again, for me, it’s not so much about the earrings. It’s more about trust and faith in a company and a team to do what it says and says what it does.

Again things change, I agree. I feel it would go a long way if they acknowledged that they stated those things and they are undoing them. Respect people enough to tell them what you are changing and why.

For these things, why did SE feel it necessary to completely walk back those statements rather than make similar items like the Sylph Goobbue? For the earrings, why couldn’t they make them darker in color and call them Black Ravens? Doing that, people get something very similar and they maintained what they said they would do.

While it doesn't diminish the accomplishments of the past, it casts a shadow over the present and future.

Yet the ToS User Agreement states that any and all in-game items (amongst other things) are the property of SE and not the players themselves, therefore as a company they can release items again and again however they see fit, whether demand requires it or there is some kind of value in doing so. It also states the User Agreement supercedes any other agreements in the event of a conflict (in case of the image provided by Istaru)

Players have their memories what what they did, and considering all the other benefits of being a part of Legacy, should be lucky not everything was immediately made available to everyone instead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Istaru

It’s about putting your faith in a company and a team and having that faith rewarded. That is what legacy is really all about. Every time they undo part of the tangible items, such as the earrings or other things, they are undoing that faith. They are saying “You were wrong to put faith in us, we aren’t any better.”

---

I completely understand your point of view. I didn't know that these earrings even existed until this thread started -- it's not like 2.0 players have been clamoring for them for years and SE finally caved.

While we, the players, can put faith in a company to do the right thing -- that opens up a whole can of worms and creates even more questions -- what IS the right thing?

The right thing according to some 1.0 players is to leave these earrings alone and exclusive forever to show their support in a difficult and uncertain time.

The right thing according to other 1.0 players is to make the earrings available but make them "replicas".

The right thing according to some 2.0 players is to forget about it, since they're just earrings.

The right thing according to other 2.0 players is to make everything available to everyone and stop whining about what happened 5 years ago.

The problem is...no matter what the company decides to do, some group is going to "lose faith". And interestingly enough, another group might gain that faith.

Remember the Bunny Suit fiasco? You had people saying "I don't want to see a scantily clad Roe dude in fishnet stockings." And when SE made them available to everyone, maybe the people who were upset about that "lost faith" in SE not to cave into user demands. But at the same time, the group who so strongly advocated for them gained faith that SE was more open-minded and willing to make adjustment to fit their glamour wishes.

It seems that no matter what they try, some group is going to be unhappy. They really can't win.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormfur

The right thing according to some 2.0 players is to forget about it, since they're just earrings.

The right thing according to other 2.0 players is to make everything available to everyone and stop whining about what happened 5 years ago.

The problem is...no matter what the company decides to do, some group is going to "lose faith". And interestingly enough, another group might gain that faith. .

---

I don't get why they're so invested though. I never saw anyone clamoring for these earrings, why would they care if SE came out and said "oops, nevermind we're not giving those out"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormfur

I completely understand your point of view. I didn't know that these earrings even existed until this thread started -- it's not like 2.0 players have been clamoring for them for years and SE finally caved.

While we, the players, can put faith in a company to do the right thing -- that opens up a whole can of worms and creates even more questions -- what IS the right thing?

---

It seems that no matter what they try, some group is going to be unhappy. They really can't win.

Yes, someone will be unhappy. I agree with you.

I really hope that most people think that honoring your promises, obligations and such might be a good place to start. If you can’t do that, at least try to work things out before blowing it up and ignoring those obligations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormfur

Remember the Bunny Suit fiasco? You had people saying "I don't want to see a scantily clad Roe dude in fishnet stockings." And when SE made them available to everyone, maybe the people who were upset about that "lost faith" in SE not to cave into user demands. But at the same time, the group who so strongly advocated for them gained faith that SE was more open-minded and willing to make adjustment to fit their glamour wishes.

---

How can anyone forget? lol

In that case I believe they said nothing for a moment and then said yes later. I feel, at that point, they had to make it as long as it was physically possible to do so. Say what you do and do what you say.

Their faith was justified, while it took a long time, the team did deliver on that obligation.

I'd like to know if there would be something from 1.0 that wouldn't anger or upset those players who got it back then. Something that isn't already in the game's files (like the Onion helmets...that's the only example I can think of).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Istaru

2 cents”

---

I absolutely agree and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormfur

I'd like to know if there would be something from 1.0 that wouldn't anger or upset those players who got it back then. Something that isn't already in the game's files (like the Onion helmets...that's the only example I can think of).

---

Actually, the onion stuff may be ok.

Not part of any date or action exclusive things.
It’s not dated or weathered gear.
It’s not seasonal gear
It wasn’t from an achievement
It wasn’t specific to the seventh umbral questline.

I don’t think they made any statements of it being unobtainable, I’d say two thumbs up on onion gear. Good example!

The Onion Gear, at least parts of it, can be obtained via Retainer Ventures. Has been that way since... HW, I think? I have the Doublet and definately had it pre-SB, and wasn't a 1.0 Player because the game wouldn't run on my system. Wish I could have played 1.0, flaws and all, but I just couldn't at that time due to not having the system and the PS3 version never launching, which I was waiting for.

Edit: Seems you can obtain: Onion Doublet, Onion Gaskins, Onion Pattens, Red Onion Helm, from quick ventures level 1-50. This is according to: Gamer Escape

I've been reading the JP thread on this and their thoughts seem to be tied, some would like replica, some are not bothered that much and accept it, few are happy with the memories while another was quite drastic asking for the event to be cancelled, so it's a mixed bag of responses.

This kind of anniversary event could happen again, so look at it this way, the feedback that SE recieves with this event whether it's successful or not will likely effect how they handle future Rising events. There was a Q&A at the last E3 where someone asked if it was possible to replicate 1.0, to which SE stated it wasn't possible anymore but they would try to find a way to bring content back so that it is playable in the current incarnation of FFXIV.


(Q：レガシーサーバーのパッチ1.23bを追体験できるようにならないでしょうか
A：あれを再現しようと思うと，一度捨てたサーバーを作り直さないと，あのとおりにはなりません。あのシナリオは当時のFFXIVを応援してくれたプレイヤーに向けたもので，あれをもう1回というのはないです。当時の雰囲気を味わえるものは何かできたらとは思いますが，完全再現するつもりはないです。)
Source: https://www.4gamer.net/games/360/G036007/20180613010/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Istaru

When SE said all those things, like everyone else, I believed them. Why wouldn’t I? That is my point, I’m disappointed that I trusted them and it seems more and more that it was misplaced.

Again, for me, it’s not so much about the earrings. It’s more about trust and faith in a company and a team to do what it says and says what it does.

---

Youre hinging your trust in the company about a piece of glamour from an iteration of the game that is no longer accessible due to it being TERRIBLE (the game was literally remade) from 5 years ago.

This seems a touch absurd.

"I cant trust SE anymore cause theyre giving away an item I earned from 5 years ago in a version of the game no longer possible for the specific reason that the game was bad and was remade. How can I ever trust them again!"

I dont mean to be patronizing or simplistic, but thats the best way I can surmise your feelings on the issue. You say its not about the earrings, but on some ambiguous notion of trust. You behave like SE has to, above all else, honor every single agreement ever made and never change their positions, particularly in regards to content 5 years ago that nobody can even play because it is literally discontinued and taken out of the game.

As I said, its a touch absurd, and frankly, not within even pragmatic reason. This isnt like them saying "Nah, were gonna give out Ultimate Bahamut weapons for this upcoming event for free!". It's them taking an old asset from a 5 year old part of the game that is no longer even playable in the harshest sense (not a discontinued event, or a yearly thing, but literally from a version of the game that is no longer available anywhere on grounds of remaking the game from the foundation up) and giving it away as an event item so more people can have the item for glamour. If this qualifies as a violation of your trust, then you have ridiculously high standards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

Snip

---

I am going to have to ask that you go back and reread my statements and possibly the couple of other posts I made. I think you missed the point, especially if you didn’t read all of them. I already said what significance the earrings specifically have. Spoiler: on their own? Not that much.

If you still feel the same way and wish to continue attacking me, feel free, I cannot have a discussion with someone who is unwilling or unable to listen and consider things objectively.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Istaru

I am going to have to ask that you go back and reread my statements and possibly the couple of other posts I made. I think you missed the point, especially if you didn’t read all of them. I already said what significance the earrings specifically have. Spoiler: on their own? Not that much.

If you still feel the same way and wish to continue attacking me, feel free, I cannot have a discussion with someone who is unwilling or unable to listen and consider things objectively.

---

Am I wrong to surmise the issue isnt the earring but your 'trust in SE' that if they promise something that it stays that way?

That trust hinges on whether or not they give away an item earned in 1.0. An item they said, at the time, was exclusive. That this violates that trust an item you have as promised to be exclusive is no longer going to be. A violation of principles.

If so, then Ive addressed that. Your standards of trust is absurdly high considering the situation. It matters little whether its earrings, or gloves, or any other piece of glamour. The principle your making is "I now trust them less because something they said 5 years ago from removed content that was objectively terrible is being broken." Youre placing to much emphasis on promises long honored from aspects of the game that are objectively removed. It can be argued, easily enough, that 1.0 is a different game all together. If this is your standard for 'trust in SE', then I think youre a touch to high on it.

If not, then please clarify once more, either with your own words, or directing me to your earlier posts. Asking me to dig through 70 pages of replies to find all your posts on the matter is a touch mindless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Istaru

If you still feel the same way and wish to continue attacking me.... *snip*

---

I think this is why people are just going around in circles so much. People are not willing to debate or have differences of opinions without seeing it or making it personal. Was the above person actually attacking you, or where they debating your position/debating your statements? This is to everyone. People are not going to agree. A lot take this personally and perhaps need to step back now that they have made their points.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurando

Yet the ToS User Agreement states that any and all in-game items (amongst other things) are the property of SE and not the players themselves, therefore as a company they can release items again and again however they see fit, whether demand requires it or there is some kind of value in doing so. It also states the User Agreement supercedes any other agreements in the event of a conflict (in case of the image provided by Istaru)

---

This argument doesn't really hold all that much water, imo. Of course SE can do what they please, I don't think anyone is really disputing that. They could also decide to start handing out past PvP rewards through seasonal events, or completely invalidate <insert random item>. Or perhaps they want to start deleting characters after being unsubbed for 30 days for whatever reason. It's totally their call, but that doesn't mean it's always a great decision.

However, as the developer, they are the ones providing a service to their customers. It is their job to ensure that the playerbase feels important to them as customers, and to offer a product that leaves us feeling content and happy with our purchase.

In this particular case, yes, it's just an earring, but it was a special item that was allowed to be carried over from their failed 1.0 game. In my mind, it was a token of "Hey, thanks for sticking with us through the bad here's a cool memento to bring with you on your new adventures". So if they start passing this out, where do they stop? What is next exclusive/rare item to be casually doled out to the greater mass?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

Am I wrong to surmise the issue isnt the earring but your 'trust in SE' that if they promise something that it stays that way?

That trust hinges on whether or not they give away an item earned in 1.0. An item they said, at the time, was exclusive. That this violates that trust an item you have as promised to be exclusive is no longer going to be.

If so, then Ive addressed that. Your level of trust is absurdly high considering the situation. If not, then please clarify once more, either with your own words, or directing me to your earlier posts. Asking me to dig through 70 pages of replies to find all your posts on the matter is a touch mindless.

---

One thing here, one there, not a big deal, they’ve done it with many.

As I said, I believe in say what you do, and do what you say. I try my best to live my life that way and I expect others to do the same. I also stated, more than once, things change. I was taught and believe that, if they do, say so. Tell the other person or party or parties what has to change and it’s best to say why. They may not like it, but at least be upfront.

It appears that you do not hold those beliefs. That’s ok. I’m not going to reciprocate and tell you that your standards or ridiculously low or any such thing.

I will simply suggest we agree that we disagree and wish each other a good day.

Have a good day!!

I am a newer player of 14 so I don't have these items but at the same time it's not fair really to the old loyal players I think they should have their exclusive stuff. I think the best Compermise would just to have a variation of the reward or just add replica to the end of the item at the very least

There are plenty of real reasons to lose trust in the company. Your reasoning behind it, however, just appears flawed due to standards that dont make pragmatic sense. If you want to take a literal position of "Everything said must be honored to the T", youre going to have a lot more disappointment in SE, or any business for that matter.

There is a difference between being upset of a 'promise broken' from 5 years ago about things no longer viable from a different game (almost) that has little to no impact on anything, and being upset from promises made a year or two ago that still have direct on the game.

My blunt honest opinion: Your position seems unreasonable. Unfortunate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AeroCry

I am a newer player of 14 so I don't have these items but at the same time it's not fair really to the old loyal players I think they should have their exclusive stuff. I think the best Compermise would just to have a variation of the reward or just add replica to the end of the item at the very least

---

I agree, but there are some people, who, for many reasons, hate exclusivity and enforced rarity in all its forms.

Funny thing? To a degree, I agree with them, I’m not a fan either.

SE should say that as of such and such date, we will no longer do any more exclusives or whatever and I’d be happy with that. Sticking point is that I don’t think it should be retroactive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

In this particular case, yes, it's just an earring, but it was a special item that was allowed to be carried over from their failed 1.0 game. In my mind, it was a token of "Hey, thanks for sticking with us through the bad here's a cool memento to bring with you on your new adventures". So if they start passing this out, where do they stop? What is next exclusive/rare item to be casually doled out to the greater mass?

---

Would you genuinely believe that most players continued on to 2.0 just because of free items? Definitely not, but one thing that did entice players was the reduction of their subscription which effects people much more greatly than that of something digital in-game that has literally no monetary value.

For something to be rare/exclusive, a customer needs to be able to have access to it to begin with, such as with the Collector's Editions of ARR/Expacs, or rare items in game that everyone can unlock through completing certain requirements etc. The earrings are currently impossible to obtain the only thing that you could claim is exclusive about them is SE giving legacy players a 5yr head start on having them before everyone else.

As stated in an earlier post, there is clear interest from players for SE to bring certain things of 1.0 back and they are actually open to the idea. In the end, despite legacy players sticking it out for so long, it's the 2.0 players onwards that are more in numbers for seeing old stuff, not to mention the money SE makes from the subs (as they do not get legacy discount) is much more profitable. The greater masses will get more treatment, that's how business works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

There are plenty of real reasons to lose trust in the company. Your reasoning behind it, however, just appears flawed due to standards that dont make pragmatic sense. If you want to take a literal position of "Everything said must be honored to the T", youre going to have a lot more disappointment in SE, or any business for that matter.

There is a difference between being upset of a 'promise broken' from 5 years ago about things no longer viable from a different game (almost) that has little to no impact on anything, and being upset from promises made a year or two ago that still have direct on the game.

My blunt honest opinion: Your position seems unreasonable. Unfortunate.

---

I did not say “Again things change, I agree. I feel it would go a long way if they acknowledged that they stated those things and they are undoing them. Respect people enough to tell them what you are changing and why.” in Post 682 of this thread and reaffirm with “I really hope that most people think that honoring your promises, obligations and such might be a good place to start. If you can’t do that, at least try to work things out before blowing it up and ignoring those obligations.” in post 686? Both are on page 69, just one page back.

I really wish I had said that I understand that sometimes things do happen and agreements, even minor ones, have to change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Istaru

Legacy isn’t all about the reduced sub, or the “tattoo”, it’s not a tattoo per se, or the chocobo, or the goobbue, or the earring or the horn, or any of those items. It’s about putting your faith in a company and a team and having that faith rewarded. That is what legacy is really all about. Every time they undo part of the tangible items, such as the earrings or other things, they are undoing that faith. They are saying “You were wrong to put faith in us, we aren’t any better.”

---

Your faith was rewarded. They gave you A Realm Reborn.

To make a quick note here the Terms of Service and End User License Agreement while giving Yoshida and the development team free reign do whatever they want they are not a shield that can be used to deflect any and all criticisms from the consumer. And Consumers are allowed and should be encouraged to voice concerns and criticisms when a service they are paying regularly for depreciates. While Yoshida is under no obligation to keep any items exclusive, going back on his word does damage his integrity as director to a portion of his playerbase regardless of individual feelings on the matter.

Regarding "digital items have no value" the digital cosmetics in games industry has grown to multi-million dollars in profits and companies do encourage sales through the idea of artificial scarcity through exclusive windows of opportunity or limited quantity distribution. Yoshida is the one who set the value of these items by marketing them as being exclusive to 1.0 players to drive subscriptions and encourage player growth and is now devaluing them by giving them away because he didn't want to allocate resources to creating new rising themed assets and is deserving of any negative or positive feedback he gets from his decisions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghoulheart

To make a quick note here the Terms of Service and End User License Agreement while giving Yoshida and the development team free reign do whatever they want they are not a shield that can be used to deflect any and all criticisms from the consumer. And Consumers are allowed and should be encouraged to voice concerns and criticisms when a service they are paying regularly for depreciates. While Yoshida is under no obligation to keep any items exclusive, going back on his word does damage his integrity as director to a portion of his playerbase regardless of individual feelings on the matter.

Regarding "digital items have no value" the digital cosmetics in games industry has grown to multi-million dollars in profits and companies do encourage sales through the idea of artificial scarcity through exclusive windows of opportunity or limited quantity distribution. Yoshida is the one who set the value of these items by marketing them as being exclusive to 1.0 players to drive subscriptions and encourage player growth and is now devaluing them by giving them away because he didn't want to allocate resources to creating new rising themed assets and is deserving of any negative or positive feedback he gets from his decisions.

---

"His words" in this case seem to be more about what players read into a vague list of things than anything that was actually said. Nothing anyone has posted in this thread has unequivocally shown otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurando

For something to be rare/exclusive, a customer needs to be able to have access to it to begin with, such as with the Collector's Editions of ARR/Expacs, or rare items in game that everyone can unlock through completing certain requirements etc. The earrings are currently impossible to obtain the only thing that you could claim is exclusive about them is SE giving legacy players a 5yr head start on having them before everyone else.

---

How's a CE purchase any different than a timed exclusive event item?
Or perhaps a better example would be preorder bonus items. Should those all be given out too?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghoulheart

Yoshida is the one who set the value of these items by marketing them as being exclusive to 1.0 players to drive subscriptions and encourage player growth and is now devaluing them by giving them away because he didn't want to allocate resources to creating new rising themed assets and is deserving of any negative or positive feedback he gets from his decisions.

---

This isn't completely true. As with previous events, the items obtained from them are released on to the Mog Station a year later to purchase for real cash, therefore they are given a value. No doubt this will happen to the earrings, so in the long term there is actually something to gain in terms of profit.

They probably will be at some point in the future.

I tried the ARR beta when it first came out, but I had mixed impressions about the game back then and didn't buy the Collector's Edition (and obviously didn't get the things that came with it). But I can go into my account this very day, pay a little bit and get that edition right now if I wanted to. I did get the HW and SB Collector's Editions though (although not for the shinies) so I don't know if you can upgrade to those now or not. I'm betting you can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormfur

But it may not be just "handed out". If it is, then yeah, I can agree with you, that would be in poor taste. But we don't know until the actual event occurs. IF we got to do the fight, as close as technically feasible, with the same item and character level, and we completed it successfully, would that not be close enough to the same thing?

I mean.. would that be okay? Or is it the combination of "a very hard fight" + "servers shutting down and we won't get to experience this as it was"? (I'm legitimately asking, not trying to stir up drama).

---

What would be totally okay, is something of the same overall difficulty.

I'm comparing difficulties with the % of people who would manage to clear it. Since in 1.0 the % of 1.0 players winning the White Ravens was ridiculously minuscule, I would expect something similar.

The closest I can think of is what Kharlan said, UCoB Milestone, not clearing entirely UCoB, but clearing Twintania and then Nael in UCoB, meaning the 6 first minutes of UCoB out of the 19 min.

Not only % wise it's really close, as it should be a % way lower than Savage, but not as low as Ultimate, but where it makes all sense, is that these earrings are based on Nael 1.0 head piece armour.

With this, story wise, lore wise it would make totally sense, plus anniversary wise and current content wise, it would also make totally sense, as UCoB got released recently and is still completely relevant.

This would answer the legitimate demand of players who just asked to have a chance to get them as a real trophy as well, to earn it.

But Stormfur, this upcoming Rising 2018, it's a level 15 event, that don't happens in STORMBLOOD, but that is available to people that just own ARR.

If I was the developer, I would have addressed all this the following way, to make the 3 parties entirely happy, without needing to spend any game resources on it:

• I would have put the original White Ravens as a reward for clearing Nael in Unending Coil of Bahamut (Ultimate), which means clearing those 6 first minutes of the fight.
  The % of players capable of doing that is close enough to the % of players who managed to win the White Ravens in 1.0.
  This would pleased the players who are just asking to get a fair chance of getting them as a real earned trophy (as well as putting more incentive to get into that fight).
• I would have also made Replicas, that I would have handed during the event, for people asking them for Glamour.

1.0 players, ARR HW SB players asking a way to earn them as a real similar trophy, and people wanting them for glamour, would all be happy, they would not feel cheated, they would feel understood and supported, making the developer fairly enough trustworthy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canadane

How's a CE purchase any different than a timed exclusive event item?
Or perhaps a better example would be preorder bonus items. Should those all be given out too?

---

Collectors editions are still available to purchase (whether officially or not) they are not limited like time events, so there is a difference between these two. Considering there could be editions with pre-order bonuses somewhere online being sold, it's still another thing that's not impossible to obtain. However as some codes do have expiry dates, that can complicate it, but it still isn't completely out of reach. And honestly I really wouldn't be surprised if such things are released in the future, because if players ask enough, it might just happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurando

Collectors editions are still available to purchase (whether officially or not) they are not limited like time events, so there is a difference between these two. Considering there could be editions with pre-order bonuses somewhere online being sold, it's still another thing that's not impossible to obtain. However as some codes do have expiry dates, that can complicate it, but it still isn't completely out of reach. And honestly I really wouldn't be surprised if such things are released in the future, because if players ask enough, it might just happen.

---

But it shouldn't happen. Pre-order bonuses and the like are a tried and true marketing practice. It would be shady to start selling those items independent of the actual pre-order itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canadane

How's a CE purchase any different than a timed exclusive event item?
Or perhaps a better example would be preorder bonus items. Should those all be given out too?

---

It's different because money is involved. Even though the pre-order bonuses are practically just freebies because a high percentage of players are likely going to order the expansion one way or the other, it's still involves real life currency, which brings legal considerations into the picture. These things are explicitly sold as being only available through these means, in stark contrast to the vague list of things that would be exclusive to 1.0 players and weren't sold to them one way or the other. Even if such statements as the ones linked throughout the thread about what would be unobtainable going forward might indirectly influence your purchasing decisions based on your understanding of them, changes to those statements, if a later decision even really is a change to them, would fall under SE's contractually secured right to change the game at will.

Though, personally, I wouldn't be bothered if people could buy a fat chocobo in the Mogstation for $5. It's just a goofy thing I enjoy using and I'm sure others would similarly enjoy using it, including those who may not have had an opportunity to purchase it originally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormfur

I'd like to know if there would be something from 1.0 that wouldn't anger or upset those players who got it back then. Something that isn't already in the game's files (like the Onion helmets...that's the only example I can think of).

---

Funny enough I don’t think I’ve heard anyone complain about the OTHER 1.0 item being brought back for this event, the Manderville Earrings, probably because it’s significantly harder to advocate that those not be rereleased.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

There are plenty of real reasons to lose trust in the company. Your reasoning behind it, however, just appears flawed due to standards that dont make pragmatic sense. If you want to take a literal position of "Everything said must be honored to the T", youre going to have a lot more disappointment in SE, or any business for that matter.

There is a difference between being upset of a 'promise broken' from 5 years ago about things no longer viable from a different game (almost) that has little to no impact on anything, and being upset from promises made a year or two ago that still have direct on the game.

My blunt honest opinion: Your position seems unreasonable. Unfortunate.

---

Holding SE to a higher standard than your average kickstarter funded indie is unreasonable. Are these really the kind of arguments we're going to have now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nixxe

"His words" in this case seem to be more about what players read into a vague list of things than anything that was actually said. Nothing anyone has posted in this thread has unequivocally shown otherwise.

---

I would love to hear what is actually vague about their statements that isn't redefining terms because of future knowledge we have now that wasn't there back then. Not all of them are about the earrings but the nature of the event for anyone that's looked into it further.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4755547

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I’m not trying to devalue your accomplishment, but how could you invest 5 months into a piece of content that was only available for 3 months? Rivenroad (Hard) came out in Patch 1.23b, which was released 2012.08.13, and then the 1.0 servers all went offline on 2012.11.12. Again, not trying to devalue anything, but the times don’t add up, unless I’m missing something.

---

Just like we knew about Ultimate coming a year before its release, the dev team hinted and hyped us in 1.0 about the "final fight", with 2 difficulties, a normal one, and a challenging one.

The required gears to get into that fight seriously, were released during the spring, giving you some month to gear up before the fight get released in the summer, so that you could jump on it as soon as possible, to get a chance at clearing it before the servers shut down.
It was a race against the clock all along.

There are people who did everything for month, who fought with bravery, and didn't cleared it on time, still being in the fight during the final hours.

This is full of incredible stories. Some cleared it the last day, a 5-6 month race, they cleared it the last day, then head up on the Carteneau Flats for the big battle against the Garlemald XIVth Legion lead by The Black Wolf, Gaius van Baelsar.
A war hosted by GMs, with Dalamud growing above players heads, only to find out what was in Dalamud 1 min after the server shut down with the End of Era CGI video.

Those people, clearing it the final day, they went on a roller-coaster of emotions, they were crying tears of joy and sadness on the forum the next day, making the development team crying themselves.

This is singular and unparalleled, and why people are attached to those silly earrings.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emstidor

Funny enough I don’t think I’ve heard anyone complain about the OTHER 1.0 item being brought back for this event, the Manderville Earrings, probably because it’s significantly harder to advocate that those not be rereleased.

---

Because they never said they would become unobtainable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiraelina

I would love to hear what is actually vague about their statements that isn't redefining terms because of future knowledge we have now that wasn't there back then. Not all of them are about the earrings but the nature of the event for anyone that's looked into it further.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4755547

---

I already addressed this for you probably a dozen pages back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alimdia

Istaru, at the end of the day your experience is what matters, no one can take that away from you, the lack of artificial scarcity shouldn't retroactively diminish your experience.

---

I think a big problem is simply that SE likes to state one thing and suddenly change it months/years later if it does not fit their view anymore. Yes things can change in development but there is a point where one really has to ask "why should I even trust any word that comes from you anymore?". And the worst is that I just cant see why it was necessary to break the words on that special case. These are earrings, that most players will probably throw into the chest and never really wear, so why was it even necessary to bring them over? If they remember their promise, why not just simply create a new exclusive item for this event? I dont own them but I still feel that this is cheap, simply because its bad for some 1.0 players and because I just see it as a cheap way for a event reward. (But should not be surprised to see another reused item.)

If you dont know if you can keep a promise than simply state it that another way. And if you get the feeling that you might need to break one then try to find a way which will make it less bad. (Which for example is giving it the replica name)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alleo

I think a big problem is simply that SE likes to state one thing and suddenly change it months/years later if it does not fit their view anymore. Yes things can change in development but there is a point where one really has to ask "why should I even trust any word that comes from you anymore?".

---

You should trust that it is their current intent, but realize that it's subject to change later down the line, and make decisions accordingly. Loyalty and appreciation are ideas to be sold to customers because it fosters something akin to the genuine feeling in them. They are something to be cast aside if there is a chance of greater profit elsewhere. This is how business works. You are just a source of income and your dollars are not worth any more than anyone else's dollars unless they are available in a greater amount.

Businesses are not your friends. You are not a friend to businesses. Capitalistic exchange is about mutual parasitism. You try to suck them dry while defending yourself from their attempts to do the same to you. You are only "allies" so long as your self-interest happens to align and not a moment longer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Istaru

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emstidor

Funny enough I don’t think I’ve heard anyone complain about the OTHER 1.0 item being brought back for this event, the Manderville Earrings, probably because it’s significantly harder to advocate that those not be rereleased.

---

Because they never said they would become unobtainable.

---

On top of that, it was a simple quest reward, there wasn't effort put into it. It's not really a trophy status item like others are.