ya if you already own the game you dont have to purchase 2.0Quote:
Originally Posted by RahJah
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10-25-2011, 11:45 PMAzurus
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10-25-2011, 11:51 PMTheVedis
This thread isnt even about pro or anti subscriptions anymore
its about a bunch of people with epeens DEMANDING everyone stop telling them their optinion, then DEMANDING that everyone agree with their opinion
and getting upset and yelling troll and murder at everyone who says anything back -
10-26-2011, 12:10 AMAmyRaeYou see, this is full of ad hominems. You're attacking me instead of the argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by AamesxDavid
You're insinuating that I have a secret agenda to pay less for 2.0. You're insinuating that because I didn't mention SE's profit motive in every single sentence I must not be sincere about that motive. You're suggesting that I don't have a proper case because I used a catch phrase you didn't particularly care for, even though most people understand the meaning of "fully operational" when compared to what we actually got at FFXIV's launch.
Maybe you should just stop. Just stop.
Questioning the validity of the BG poll is okay, so I'll answer that one. I'll leave it to you to find out how the number of words I used proves I'm in a satanic cult trying to send everyone to hell.
Who would you expect the most rabid fans of Final Fantasy XIV?
Would they be fans of Final Fantasy series? Seems pretty likely. If I were to tell you that one of those Final Fantasy titles were online, the eleventh one, known as FFXI, wouldn't you say those players would be even more stoked to play the next online title in the series: FFXIV?
What if a particular segment enjoyed playing FFXI so much that they wanted to take the game to the next level. So they created mods, at somewhat great risk of getting in trouble, and distributed their creations free to the community at large to improve their experience playing the game. Wouldn't you say that a group of people who loved the original Final Fantasy Online game that much ought to be ecstatic over a brand new sequel?
And yet this particular group who ought to be rabid fans are overwhelmingly passing on FFXIV. This isn't just one poll. This is a poll of a very specialized group of hardcore FFXI players above and beyond your run-of-the-mill FFXI player. They don't think FFXIV is worth it in its current form. That ought to be troubling news.
If even they don't like FFXIV that much, and they have every motivation to blindly love it, then what do you suppose the average FFXI player, who doesn't tinker under FFXI's hood is going to think of FFXIV? And don't even get me started on anyone who has never played Final Fantasy Online before... -
10-26-2011, 12:17 AMAamesxDavidI thought the difference between saying "you should pay full price" and saying "your reasons for wanting a discount are bogus" was pretty clear, but it seems to have escaped some people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
I'm still confused as to how you can actually think this is the argument. Or, even if it was, how it's better to have more people if it still means less money for SE - because there's been no real evidence to the contrary. Again, if you want SE to do a real poll, request that instead of just asking them to lower the price. And you should also be requesting that that price stay even when 2.0 hits if they'll still get more money from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
I'm not asking people to pay more or to quit. I'm asking them to be reasonable and consistent. -
10-26-2011, 12:46 AMAamesxDavidYou say that, but.. my post was quoted right above this, and I don't see once place where that happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyRae
I said the exact opposite. Your solution is to pay full price at 2.0 regardless of how many people will stay, and I simply pointed out that that is inconsistent with your reasoning for wanting a lesser charge up to that point. Far from insinuating a secret agenda, I simply said it would make you more consistent for suggesting such a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyRae
No, I didn't insinuate that - I flat out stated it. Again, consistency: if charging less after 2.0 would make SE more money, you should be in favor of it, yet you claim not to be. If you don't care about SE's profit after 2.0, it's not a good reason to be in favor of a price drop now.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyRae
No, I'm stating that you don't have a case because your argument, once again, rested on SE's profit and not the state of the game. How many more times do I need to say that all I'm asking for is consistency?Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyRae
As far as BG people being so hardcore that they ought to love it.. I think you're misunderstanding what it means to be a "rabid fan". Ask any developer - their most hardcore fans are the ones that hate everything new that they do because it doesn't live up to their expectations of being as good or better than what made them a hardcore fan to begin with. Lots of hardcore fans of the Final Fantasy franchise have hated everything since VII. Their words don't hold more weight simply because they enjoyed previous titles. The number of people overall who enjoy the game is what matters.
And for the last time, I'm not arguing that it's possible that it may benefit SE to drop the price. It is. In fact, I'll bold this just to make sure you actually read it instead of making up your version of what I said.
You might be right.
But all I'm saying is that it hasn't been anywhere near proven that you are. So request a real poll, try to get something conclusive before saying that SE should lower its price in the hopes that enough people will stay to make it worthwhile.
And don't abandon the whole concept of price elasticity just because the game has "2.0" after it, because it makes the rest of your argument seem disingenuous. -
10-26-2011, 01:03 AMZanfiremost people have been, its you and another person who have been hashing it out for pages. SE would make money if they charged 1$ or 100$ and like they said they will continue to 2.0 whether they have 1 or 1,00 people playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by AamesxDavid
most people can't justify paying full price for an inferior version of the game now. Most people are completely willing to pay full price when 2.0 comes out. Thats about all the argument and reason you should need. Fight it all you want, i could care less. -
10-26-2011, 01:35 AMStarlordExactly, that's MORE money we don't have to pay in our pockets, out of the Kindness of SE Hearts. Instead of paying another 60 bucks for the game, You can use the money to get another 5-6 months worth of game play time ( after the 2-Month Free trial then as well. That's almost another year for only 60 bucks, Essentially for the people that want to play the game.. they are giving another months for free ( for the people that already own the game won't have to pay for it, so that 60 bucks is saved for when you pay for the Sub). SE can only be So Nice to you guys, They been so Generous From the 1.3 year long free trial period, to the 8 month Discount, ( For the 2-month Free Trial reinstatement, and getting version 2.0 for free *which is most likely 60 bucks" which is about 6 months worth of subs*Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurus
What else you want SE to do? Bake you a cake? Take you out for dinner at a 5 Star Restaurant? Put on a Comedian Show by spinning on their Heads and clap while they do it?
I understand this was just the OP's Opinion/Analysis etc etc. However, Look what essentially happened in the end? People fighting/Arguing and sometimes even Personally attacking one another. For crying out loud its just a game. I made my fair share on this Thread, and made me say things I didn't mean but to be honest, this thread shouldn't have existed. because of all this fighting and bickering. 80% of ya'll are acting like Children, and that includes me ( at times) Even AamesxDavid and AmyRae that has been Bickering for the past 2 days non-stop.
In anyrate... Lets all just get along like we always have been and stop having hissy fits over what SE is going to do. That's their decision and their decision alone. Hugs and make up? -
10-26-2011, 01:59 AMPhysicThe whole inferior version of the game argument is kind of moot. Its a perception, if you feel the game as it is gives no enjoyment and is not worth paying for, you do what you have to do, However the fact that something new will come along later doesnt invalidate the current product.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
IE
FFXI rise of the zilart, was it worth less when it was released, just because 1 year later they would have art urghan? is everything before art urghan a waste? No, because if you enjoy the game now, then it doesnt matter if later you can get it and have more options, more monsters and more content.
The other idea, is that 2.0 will automatically be better than the current game, this is also unproven. It will be different, this much is assured, better? thats a different question.
A lot of people will tell you that art urgan was way better than abyssea, in fact some will say abyssea ruined the game. Point is just because something is new, doesnt mean you will enjoy it as much.
So it comes back to this, are you enjoying the game now? if not, you should not play when it goes p2p, if so, you should pay.
Now, the discussion of how much to pay hinges on
for the developer what will make the most money, and help their brand the most,
for me, what will give me the most enjoyment for my buck.
I personally believe if the game doesnt make back a certain amount of money from subs, they will give the current game the bear minimum of development, this is consistent with about 6-7 months of the free year. We basically got no new content, all the content added was stuff developed day 1, and released slowly throughout a 9 month period. This made sense, because they were not charging.
Essentially its this, you get what you pay for. Thats why im concerned with their profits, because if the game profits more, i get more. If less cost equals greater profits im for it. -
10-26-2011, 02:31 AMReinheart
Off topic... if they making 2.0 CE version... I hope to god they make it without any region specific special items. (Example: Japan got the cup, US got the book) and Hope to god... they offer some kind of deal so current CE version owners can get the special item for cheap or some other method... knowing SE I know they will try to do some thing like this to try and make people buy the CE version again just for the special item...
btw this thread is going no where is it? lol -
10-26-2011, 02:34 AMStarlordNope, All it is is Fighting/Bickering/Personal attacks etc etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Reinheart
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10-26-2011, 02:48 AMBetelgeuzahWe are on a verge of breakthrough here, just a few more posts to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinheart
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10-26-2011, 02:52 AMAlerithEureka!Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Dark matter doesn't move the ship around the universe! It moves the universe around the ship! -
10-26-2011, 02:54 AMStarlordLOL, This made me laugh haha! Nice one :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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10-26-2011, 03:05 AMRentahamsterThat you don't see the consistency in Amy's argument here makes me think that you misunderstand what she's trying to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by AamesxDavid
Comparing version 1.0 to competing entertainment products of a similar price puts 1.0 at a disadvantage because it does not hold up well. In an apples to apples comparison, when compared to other MMOs at a similar price point, version 1.0 still lacks a feature set and content that other MMOs have. The only draw is the current user base who have already invested time into the game as well as people who like the Final Fantasy brand. Therefore, in choosing how to spend their money, it's likely that most people (current users and potential new users) will choose to spend it elsewhere. In this situation, it's arguable that a lower price point may help to draw in new customers and retain old customers. Or not. Who knows.
Comparing version 2.0 to competing entertainment products of a similar price puts 2.0 on more competitive ground because it should be a much more substantial game. In an apples to apples comparison, when compared to other MMOs at a similar price point, version 2.0 will have a feature set and content that should be competitive with other MMOs. If everything goes according to plan, it will have its own unique characteristics that have a better draw than other MMOs, in addition to benefiting from the Final Fantasy brand. Therefore, in choosing how to spend their money, it's likely that a higher number of people will consider version 2.0 a better value for $12 than version 1.0. Additionally, in choosing how to spend their money, a consumer might opt to choose FF14 version 2.0 instead of a more established MMO because of the things that FF14 version 2.0 might do better than other games like WoW of Rift.
It's all about assessing the market environment in any given situation and then trying to predict what consumer behavior will be.
Right, we don't know if $5 is the perfect equilibrium point of revenue maximization for sure. Just as we don't know if $12 is the perfect equilibrium spot as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by AamesxDavid
If you concede that the argument as laid out in the OP "might be right", then that's pretty much all I was asking for: That "the concept of lowering the price would be more beneficial to SE" is plausible, and should be considered by management. -
10-26-2011, 03:51 AMAamesxDavidThen your talk about comparing 1.0 and 2.0 to other MMOs is not only pure speculation, but beside the point, because you ignored what you quoted right above it:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
The argument is that by lowering the price, enough people will pay the subscription that SE will get more money than if they charge "full price".Quote:
Originally Posted by AamesxDavid
You may notice that nowhere in there is the version number of the game mentioned. Why, then, is the version number suddenly so important at 2.0 that you disregard the above argument entirely to charge full price?
Version 1: charge less so that more people come and SE gets more money.
Version 2: charge more because it will be as good as other MMOs.
You find this consistent? Where is your price elasticity in version 2? You have no idea what people are going to value the game at, nor does SE.
In that case, I refer you to your own OP, where you quoted SE as saying:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
Hell, you even put it in bold. Guess this whole 66-page thread could have been avoided, eh?Quote:
So we are taking this poll to heart and discuss this again and see if this is an option for us. We will then get back to the players and decide.
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10-26-2011, 04:00 AMPhysici think his point in the thread was to confirm and highlight the point that it is an issue. So that they can consider it as more than just 1 sources poll.Quote:
Originally Posted by AamesxDavid
I definitely think they should consider it, however, all im saying, is consider it based on the long term health of the game (ie profit margin because that determines how long and how much a company is willing to put in a product)
And basically saying i dont think 5 is the best price point.
I also agree that if they find the price point is lower, that they should keep it at that point. In all honesty people really really dont want an MMO to change prices on them. Whatever price they settle on, the basically should keep for a decent amount of time.
The best way to deal with somehow charging less now, would be limited time offers, and promotional package deals. They have to make it really clear that its not the normal price, or they will just get a mass exodus when 2.0 comes out. -
10-26-2011, 04:12 AMAmyRaeFor a guy who once said this has nothing to do with 2.0, you sure like to focus on that a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by AamesxDavid
I'm pretty sure we've answered this already, but I'll make it crystal clear.
I can only assume the "price elasticity" calculations were already performed for when 1.0 launched last year. If 2.0 is the way FFXIV should have launched, then they've already determined the right price for it: $12.99 / month. Everyone who bought FFXIV was willing to pay that if FFXIV launched the way it should have, and once it does launch the way it should have, I see no reason why that sentiment would not continue.
If those at SE want to reconsider what they'll charge for 2.0, that's up to them but we're not calling for it. However, given the state of the product they're trying to sell now, I'd suggest they may want to reconsider it now.
There's evidence to suggest that a price reduction would keep more players. I don't have proof that they could make more money by lowering the price. But there are principles in economics that show such a possibility exists and it should be investigated. I don't have the resources to make that determination with certainty, but the ones making the pitch do. That's all we've ever asked for here: that they take a look at the possibilities. -
10-26-2011, 04:14 AMkensredemption
InB4ThreadClose.
EDIT:
AmyRae's hot. :P -
10-26-2011, 04:15 AMStarlord
AamesxDavid Vs AmyRae Shake hands and let the best Boxer win...
*DING!* -
10-26-2011, 06:31 AMstonedthey wont listen to reason they will continue to ingore anyone oped to their pay or leave method. they will troll and derail this tread till it gets locked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Physic
game not worth paying for. its not beta its just obsolete and wont be here come 2.0 -
10-26-2011, 06:35 AMTheVedisok lets disect thisQuote:
Originally Posted by stoned
they wont listen to reason they will continue to ingore anyone oped to their pay or leave method
arent you doing this and insulting anyone who doesnt want to leave with you?
they will troll and derail this tread till it gets locked.
like you are doing now? they are more on topic then you are
game not worth paying for. its not beta its just obsolete and wont be here come 2.0
then seriously, why the hell are you still here? what do you care? arent you supposedely a warcraft advocate now who just bought a year sub over there so you can get free diablo(which btw is a major activition ploy used when they know a games sales are declining so they can make a quick cash infusion, they have done it with several other franchises) -
10-26-2011, 06:39 AMstonedthe only fact is... if they wait till 2.0 they keep everyone. if they dont some will leave.. so everyone argueing over this dumb debate that has already been determined who won outside of this small forum group, is just arguing over nothing and debating for the sake to argue. more people quit than those who still play, those who quit out weigh this group 100 to 1. but those voices go unheard, but SE still feels the pain of knowing this game was/is broken. anywho thinks 1 thousand people can keep a mmo stable is out of their mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyRae
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10-26-2011, 06:40 AMstonedno its basicly their argument if you dont want to pay leave if not shut up... i wont be silencedQuote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
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10-26-2011, 06:41 AMstonedpoint proven....Quote:
[then seriously, why the hell are you still here? what do you care?
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10-26-2011, 06:41 AMTheVedissame as they wont be silencedQuote:
Originally Posted by stoned
all you are doing at this point is being childish and stubborn and going out of your way to piss other people in these forums off
at this point, with you specificaly and what youve stated, why are you here? seriously?
you obviously dont enjoy the game
you dont want to pay for it
you want to play wow(you said you got a year sub after all)
so why arent you on wows forums discussing the game you do like instead of on these forums dictating to other people what they should think about the game they obviously enjoy? -
10-26-2011, 06:46 AMAmyRaeThere is a third rail that hasn't been heard from much that doesn't want to see any charges for FFXIV right now. To me, that only makes sense if SE didn't need the money, because obviously you'd want to preserve as great a player base as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
But, I'm fairly certain the hat-in-hand is a sign some revenue needs to be generated to stay afloat. That's why we're asking for an adjusted price that makes sense, not a free ride. -
10-26-2011, 06:50 AMstonedlol you just keep making my point for me.. because you don't like what i have to say i should leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
i don't enjoy the game
i ALREADY PAID for it.
its not worth a sub in its currant state.
i am playing wow I am posting between my arena queue.
if you enjoy the game so much why are you trolling these forums? -
10-26-2011, 08:28 AMWynnYou will once we go 30 days past sub day.Quote:
Originally Posted by stoned
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10-26-2011, 08:31 AMStarlordI think they are going to do maintenance, where only payed subs are able to post hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Wynn
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10-26-2011, 09:51 AMJackDanielsWhich is really important to sensitive people like Wynn, \o/Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
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10-26-2011, 10:19 AMPikachuLink
i wouldnt pay anything....until this game had features was ready and released like a PROPER COMPANY SHOULD HAVE DONE!
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10-26-2011, 01:46 PMwhoopeeragon
-ding- PikachuLink and stoned are officially out of the match. Let the fight continue...
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10-26-2011, 02:47 PMNephera
I'd pay 5-7
otherwise i'll probably just check out other mmos while 2.0 is in development, and maybe come back if i dont get hooked on one. -
10-26-2011, 04:05 PMwhoopeeragonIn response to your signature, I'll have you know that Final Fantasy XIII received a score of 39 on Famitsu, while Final Fantasy XII attained the perfect score of 40. What's your point in comparing an offline, console RPG with a MMORPG? That's worse than comparing this game with WoW, which people around here seem to detest to their marrows. Context and proper analysis, please. Not to mention I find Wynn plenty of good, though sometimes blunt. You, however, have done nothing at all but presume and assume, moan and groan, insult and revolt, complain and bring words of ultimate bane to us, with a lack of constructive argument, witty ideals, and any use to the debate or feedback for the development to gain ideas from. Words with all fat and no meat, that's what you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDaniels
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10-26-2011, 05:27 PMRenshiI like WoW. It has pandas. Pandas make me happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by whoopeeragon
http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/anima.../1179123_o.gif
=D -
10-26-2011, 05:32 PMRowyneWell, I'm afraid I have to retract this statement. My husband put his foot down tonight. He said we're not paying any sub fees for this game before 2.0. He is simply too dissatisfied.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
Please, SE, reconsider your stance on reinstating sub fees so soon! :( -
10-26-2011, 05:34 PMAgoven
AN MMO is NEVER Done!!!! It's constantly changing...
You pay for that constant change...embrace it or go buy a single player game for your console. Seriously!!!! -
10-26-2011, 08:59 PMweeblethey change but there needs to be a set standard to how much or little they are aloud to launch with. fact there should be some laws to prevent what happened here ...someone should step in and say you can't launch knowing your not ready, or you can't launch without this many gigs of content at the least to start. but that is just me. ..and i guess a hole lot of people since in a month our empty servers are gonna turn to half that><Quote:
Originally Posted by Agoven
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10-26-2011, 09:23 PMCorrderio
Agree with the thread. ~5 dollars is far more reasonable for a game that's still broken and way below standards.
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10-26-2011, 09:34 PMBetelgeuzahThe fee is meant for those whose standards are way down there as-is, tho!Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrderio