Letter to MR Yoshi: Why parses system is destroying the ffxiv world.

Kaiiiiiva C

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Late, but they do exist:
https://i.gyazo.com/5bd505f655ddac63...6131706b7c.png
This was earlier today on Aether. This is the kind of stuff as to what makes me not like parsing (actually, it's more FFLogs than parsing, because of the leaderboard-like settings that some people seem to like pushing). I fully expect a 'their party, their rules' or 'make your own party' statement to be typed, or something to do with play styles. My main point to this particular screenshot is to have grey DPS means you have cleared the fight (it just means you might not have had a particularly good comp to boost your numbers) or haven't quite the gear to get better numbers. That speaks nothing of your competence. :\

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Grey parses typically mean you are woefully undergeared and/or have died numerous times. Given they restricted the ilvl, someone with greys joining who's simply new is unlikely. Even in the scenario they are, people are entitled to want quick weekly clears. I don't mind helping, but sometimes, I simply want to blitz through weeklies either because I have other things to do or don't really want to clear but need books. Adding in-game parsers wouldn't change anything. If messages like that were banned, people can easily look up your logs and silently kick you.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

To be fair, I kinda stay in Shield Oath for most of the dungeon because my PLD isn't as geared as my DPS Jobs and I don't want to lose hate against DPS who know exactly what they're doing (looking at you, BLM's).
Though I swap to Sword Oath once I'm comfortable with where everyone is at.

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That's fair, a tank doing big pulls in tank stance is fine, usually a solid safety net for undergeared healers/tanks, also yes, overeager dps who don't know where they put their aggro buttons, the burden many a tank must face, I tend to pull in tank stance and do 2-3 aggro combos just to be on the safe side.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Late, but they do exist:
https://i.gyazo.com/5bd505f655ddac63...6131706b7c.png
This was earlier today on Aether. This is the kind of stuff as to what makes me not like parsing (actually, it's more FFLogs than parsing, because of the leaderboard-like settings that some people seem to like pushing). I fully expect a 'their party, their rules' or 'make your own party' statement to be typed, or something to do with play styles. My main point to this particular screenshot is to have grey DPS means you have cleared the fight (it just means you might not have had a particularly good comp to boost your numbers) or haven't quite the gear to get better numbers. That speaks nothing of your competence. :\

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Many people do not know how to use FFlogs sadly. Also, this party clearly wanted a WAR that knew what he was doing.

Just a side note:
Lets say that the best MCH parse is 6,3k, and the worst MCH parse is 6k (Not too far from each other, only 300 dps difference).
The first MCH is going have a yellow parse (100%) while the second MCH is going to have a gray parse. But both players are actually good. the small difference could be because of party comp.

Percentiles mean nothing if the dps numbers are close to each other. People should look at things that matter (Active time, cpm, etc..)

You see this alot in Ultimate logs. Where everyone clears it but some end up having gray/green parses. This does not mean that they are bad players.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

Many people do not know how to use FFlogs sadly. Also, this party clearly wanted a WAR that knew what he was doing.

Just a side note:
Lets say that the best MCH parse is 6,3k, and the worst MCH parse is 6k (Not too far from each other, only 300 dps difference).
The first MCH is going have a yellow parse (100%) while the second MCH is going to have a gray parse. But both players are actually good. the small difference could be because of party comp.

Percentiles mean nothing if the dps numbers are close to each other. People should look at things that matter (Active time, cpm, etc..)

You see this alot in Ultimate logs. Where everyone clears it but some end up having gray/green parses. This does not mean that they are bad players.

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While I understand the overall point you're trying to make, your example is grossly exaggerated. Currently, the difference between the top ranked MCH (6,900) and a grey one is 2,000 DPS. I had to back track to 1951th place on God Kefka's ranking to finally find a grey ranked MCH. A 300 DPS difference is purple against orange, not orange against grey.

Ultimate logs are a very skewed example size due to how few clears are. Not to mention, many people don't optimize nearly to the same extent because of how demanding that content is. Some only clear once or twice, thus the results are even more skewed. Basically, it's not a good sample source to determine how percentages reflect skill on FFlogs.

You don't define nor present "what is fun" for the rest of the community, running content with sh1t is not fun for me. You are free to unsub so am I, let's vote with our money and see who will change.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

While I understand the overall point you're trying to make, your example is grossly exaggerated. Currently, the difference between the top ranked MCH (6,900) and a grey one is 2,000 DPS. I had to back track to 1951th place on God Kefka's ranking to finally find a grey ranked MCH. A 300 DPS difference is purple against orange, not orange against grey.

Ultimate logs are a very skewed example size due to how few clears are. Not to mention, many people don't optimize nearly to the same extent because of how demanding that content is. Some only clear once or twice, thus the results are even more skewed. Basically, it's not a good sample source to determine how percentages reflect skill on FFlogs.

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This is example was just to deliver the message to people who have no idea how to analyze logs and only look at percentiles.
I never said that this is what is currently happening.

Since a lot of people just look at your color and decide whether to keep you in their party or not. Ignoring the factors that affect it.

I think some people are failing to see the long-term consequences, that is the thing I'm getting out of this thread.

What they think is good may have unintended consequences later on, I would be careful ignoring some obvious growing problems in the community at large if left unchecked. Public Parsing Data should cease IMO to minimize future issues, and let SE handle a official private version to stop some of the problems going on right now.

I get it, I really do. But this player made parsing system for FFXIV is losing it's intended purpose. Also I'm aware I once called parsing quite toxic but only because bad people made it that way, and the last thing FFXIV needs and especially Yoshi P. is having it grow like a virus.

Also like some other players have said, and I can vouch for this that I've seen my fair share of bad PF groups antagonizing other players that are not them.

If people need straight evidence then I encourage everyone here to start screenshots because apparently people need some convincing.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I don't think people who say things like this realize how often they are grouped with people who are parsing and legitimately never know about it.

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Literally this.
I don't know how things stand on NA or JP clusters but on Chaos I would guess around 50% of the PC players at least parse occasionally and even more parsed at least once just to see what it's all about. Thing is, people just don't even care too much about other party members. In 90% of the time it is basically just to see how well they perform themself and their friends who are with them.

Sadly the other 10% where people move out of their way and confront others negativly with their numbers or even go so far to activly harrass are the only times we can be sure parsers were running. So it's hard to tell actual numbers and compare them to make a point. :(

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Late, but they do exist:
https://i.gyazo.com/5bd505f655ddac63...6131706b7c.png

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We have some of those on Chaos as well. While I could join those partys cause I meet the criteria I would never do. It's usually trap bait and I try to stay away of those. :D Still nothing I would consider harrassment or discrimination. ö.ö Just something to shrug about and move on (and do some jokes about with your triends). Let the idiots be idiots and wait in their unfilled party forever. ^^

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

We have some of those on Chaos as well. While I could join those partys cause I meet the criteria I would never do. It's usually trap bait and I try to stay away of those. :D Still nothing I would consider harrassment or discrimination. ö.ö Just something to shrug about and move on (and do some jokes about with your triends). Let the idiots be idiots and wait in their unfilled party forever. ^^

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Trap bait indeed.

During the first week of 4.2, I ended up in a Byakko EX party led by a DRK tank with a PF description that was basically 'I want elitists with 90+% percentile scores'. I actually had a historical percentile of 100 for the fight already, only because I had the highest recorded DPS for days 1-2. Never said a word though, even when he started worshiping me even though I knew it wasn't that big a deal (getting high historicals during the first week is really more a matter of luck -especially for Bard-, and I guess ability to learn/adapt mid-run/guess mechanics very very quickly). I did manage to convince him to stop checking the damn parses and let a bunch of people who claimed that they were stuck at enrage and just wanted to clear stay in the party, if only because he was going to be waiting forever with the criteria he set. That, and I checked -his- records and knew something was up with him.

Indeed, when we got in, he didn't even know how to properly tank swap, so I watched in horror as it was either me or the poor RDM that got repeatedly slam dunk'd into the ground even WITH our enmity reduction skills. After several pulls, we all decided enough was enough and we weren't going to carry him to a clear, especially when he started blaming the rest of us for not DPSing fast enough and not using our enmity reduction properly. I left and tried to reform the party while looking for a different tank, and about 4 members of the old party returned. We cleared first pull, which meant that the failure to tank swap during the slams was the only reason we failed to clear before. Oh, and it turned out that half of the new party earned their first clear that run too.

We went on to farm 8 or so runs, a few people left, got a few more people that came in their clears, and so on without any issues... There were apparently other people parsing me because I got tells from a few of the party members wondering how the hell I was doing so much damage as a Bard. Bard is really easy in Byakko EX though.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Trap bait indeed.

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Ye, idk what's up with those people but I see it all the time. Ofc I get curious when I see such PFs and I check the party leaders logs. Mostly those are people who are slightly above average, with an mediocre median avg % (at best) and only one or two lucky runs (mostly padded by ast friends).
Not the type of people I want to play with, so I just ignore their PFs and join some normal farm partys or help out with clears whenever I feel like it. :)

Well. I do have to admit that maybe one or two times I joined such PFs with friends and we had our fun trolling the party leader who was acting all cocky and arrogant when we asked him about his median avg %. Not nice, I know, but well noone can be nice and gentle all the time I guess. :rolleyes:

Now a lot of you guys think that public parses are only destructive to those who have bad ones uploaded. But it can easily work the other way around.
I had someone worship me in a Tsuko PF clear party saying that "he had a good feeling about me". He most likely read my logs which were all 90+ since I had a good static for a while.
After a wipe he said he "confirmed his suspicions".
He proceeded to exhibit annoying behavior wanting to know my IRL sex which he asked during the fight. I for the most part ignored it but I would be lying if it wasn't getting on my nerves.

Joining parties that have experience that I feel are above my level is something I never do.
I think a lot of the problems is that logs are an outside phenomenon and as such gets overlooked and people never know their own performance so they overestimate themselves.
But by others it is regarded as gospel which is also the wrong way to go about it.
If you want to blame logs don't, improving yourself is a much easier way to change your situation.
Stay humble folks.
And if you want a perfect run, make a static and do not advertise a pf.

Overall I think parsing has done more good than harm. It is up to SE to figure out how to make it less toxic either by incorporating the good parts or if they are lazy (likely) then I would be fine by keeping things as is.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Trap bait indeed.

During the first week of 4.2, I ended up in a Byakko EX party led by a DRK tank with a PF description that was basically 'I want elitists with 90+% percentile scores'. I actually had a historical percentile of 100 for the fight already, only because I had the highest recorded DPS for days 1-2. Never said a word though, even when he started worshiping me even though I knew it wasn't that big a deal (getting high historicals during the first week is really more a matter of luck -especially for Bard-, and I guess ability to learn/adapt mid-run/guess mechanics very very quickly). I did manage to convince him to stop checking the damn parses and let a bunch of people who claimed that they were stuck at enrage and just wanted to clear stay in the party, if only because he was going to be waiting forever with the criteria he set. That, and I checked -his- records and knew something was up with him.

Indeed, when we got in, he didn't even know how to properly tank swap, so I watched in horror as it was either me or the poor RDM that got repeatedly slam dunk'd into the ground even WITH our enmity reduction skills. After several pulls, we all decided enough was enough and we weren't going to carry him to a clear, especially when he started blaming the rest of us for not DPSing fast enough and not using our enmity reduction properly. I left and tried to reform the party while looking for a different tank, and about 4 members of the old party returned. We cleared first pull, which meant that the failure to tank swap during the slams was the only reason we failed to clear before. Oh, and it turned out that half of the new party earned their first clear that run too.

We went on to farm 8 or so runs, a few people left, got a few more people that came in their clears, and so on without any issues... There were apparently other people parsing me because I got tells from a few of the party members wondering how the hell I was doing so much damage as a Bard. Bard is really easy in Byakko EX though.

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I had a gladiator 70 wanting a carry through Tsukibadanimevillain EX last night. "It's not a big deal," he said. Son, if you're not going to put in the effort to do your job quests I'm not going to help carry you. The dude somehow had 6 people in his PF.

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

Ye, idk what's up with those people but I see it all the time. Ofc I get curious when I see such PFs and I check the party leaders logs. Mostly those are people who are slightly above average, with an mediocre median avg % (at best) and only one or two lucky runs (mostly padded by ast friends).
Not the type of people I want to play with, so I just ignore their PFs and join some normal farm partys or help out with clears whenever I feel like it. :)

Well. I do have to admit that maybe one or two times I joined such PFs with friends and we had our fun trolling the party leader who was acting all cocky and arrogant when we asked him about his median avg %. Not nice, I know, but well noone can be nice and gentle all the time I guess. :rolleyes:

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I remember our groups during HW, when bird farming was still a thing, with a text like: "xyz farm bring high dps we'll check your fflogs....". If you went to check theirs, they pretty often didn't even clear the fight or just killed it once or twice. Not to forget all the "Skip soar or disband" groups where the leaders didn't pull their weight and just expected a carry.

I would just like to say in regards to tank stance that I enjoy pulling wall to wall in Defiance, popping Inner Release and a CD, spamming Steel Cyclone and watching my HP stay perfectly still at full. In those ten seconds I feel like an absolute God. Please never take this away from me.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/p.../deadhorse.jpg

Can we not?

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Originally Posted by dotsforlife

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/p.../deadhorse.jpg

Can we not?

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I see your point, you've made a very valid argument we will now cease our activities. Unfortunately, I have already locked the train onto this track and it will not stop.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YgcBIja5Xb0/maxresdefault.jpg

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

To be fair, the Feast chat was absolutely horrendous. I can't believe some of the messages that were being sent when SE was pushing Feast really hard. Screenshots from friends from what they experienced, just from lapse of judgement on their part. The vetern XIV PvPers were not at all friendly by any means to having new blood competing if they were stuck with them on the same team.

I mean jeeze, I remember a friend being upset and posting a screenshot of someone telling her to uninstall and hang herself because of a loss. Told her to report the player, but the fact it was even said is just astonishing.

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Blame the people, not the tool. blaming the tool leads to all sorts of slippery slope arguments, same can be said with parses. If a city or some localized area had a ton of car accidents do you suddenly say ban all cars? To me SE only did that because they did not want to ban all those people with the fear of losing money, or hiring more GM staff to handle all the calls. So they took a shortcut, like many things.

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Originally Posted by Ruf

Kaiiiiiva C

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Argue the concept, not the person, you know my past with them as well, do you see them going at their throats at every turn?

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

Ye, idk what's up with those people but I see it all the time. Ofc I get curious when I see such PFs and I check the party leaders logs. Mostly those are people who are slightly above average, with an mediocre median avg % (at best) and only one or two lucky runs (mostly padded by ast friends).
Not the type of people I want to play with, so I just ignore their PFs and join some normal farm partys or help out with clears whenever I feel like it. :)

Well. I do have to admit that maybe one or two times I joined such PFs with friends and we had our fun trolling the party leader who was acting all cocky and arrogant when we asked him about his median avg %. Not nice, I know, but well noone can be nice and gentle all the time I guess. :rolleyes:

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Hmmm, you sound like someone I know hmmm.

People still having fun over here and do we have a solution yes ?

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Not to forget all the "Skip soar or disband" groups where the leaders didn't pull their weight and just expected a carry.

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I joined a party for that once, and it was a lootmaster. Turns out the DRG partly leader had never cleared it, and was dead on the ground for most of the time. When we called him out on it, he said something along the lines of "It's my party, I can do what I want". We all left and blacklisted.

Again I'll ask.

if you don't want us to know our dps as dps, let's remove health bars for healers because they should just know, and remove aggro signs for tanks because If they just play like they should it will be good enough.

WhIle some may think that's extreme let's be real. A tank is meant primarily to hold aggro, so they get an indicator at how well they are doing per mob, we all do so we can use our aggro reducing skills to assist. It would be hell without that tool. We don't expect you to blindly stay in tank stance following rotation. While helpful you could easily kick a tank that isn't doing their job and holding it, it is clearly displayed.

Healers have health bars for every party Member, not just their own, so they can effectively do their job and heal those in need. Again, we don't expect you to go blind and hope it works, YOU have the tools to succeed. A bad healer is easy to spot and remove based on this.

Removing bad tanks and healers for not performing their job is seen as acceptable, but when it comes to dps suddenly its taboo to judge?

Dps however is meant to do the most damage per second as possible and we have zero idea of how to Guage it.

the funny thing is there have been very few stories of being harassed about peoples parses directly, just secondhand stories, but in contrast there are thousands of parses posted wordlessly usually only for the their own numbers.

The game boils down to numbers, if my job is to do the most damage possible let me see and adjust it as needed. If you don't want us to know let's remove all floating numbers and treat every encounter with the same vagueness as sea stone and sky, just focus on blindly melting health bars with no numbers during a time limit.

Spot on, Geno, spot on.

And this is the reason why players that don't like feeling responsible all flee to the dps role - it's so much easier to be careless and lazy when people can't actively gauge how well you're preforming your job. Tanks and healers constantly feel that pressure, not the DPS though. Or at least, not with in-game tools (which translates into, if someone wants to kick a players for being bad and they just happen to be dps, suddenly the person kicking them is in trouble).

SE, still serious about trying to improve queue time for dps? Instead of trying to dumb down healing and tanking, put some pressure on DPS roles. You'll see numbers shifting a lot more when "I can be lazy in this role" no longer applies.

I think you guys don't unterstand it.

It's ok to blame tanks and healers for not doing their main goal right.
But if you criticize a dps for not doing good dmg everyone is losing their minds.

the poor dps players have such a hard job, just let them be lazy, if they want to :3

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

SE, still serious about trying to improve queue time for dps? Instead of trying to dumb down healing and tanking, put some pressure on DPS roles. You'll see numbers shifting a lot more when "I can be lazy in this role" no longer applies.

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Or people will just stop playing ?

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

I think some people are failing to see the long-term consequences, that is the thing I'm getting out of this thread.

What they think is good may have unintended consequences later on, I would be careful ignoring some obvious growing problems in the community at large if left unchecked. Public Parsing Data should cease IMO to minimize future issues, and let SE handle a official private version to stop some of the problems going on right now.

I get it, I really do. But this player made parsing system for FFXIV is losing it's intended purpose. Also I'm aware I once called parsing quite toxic but only because bad people made it that way, and the last thing FFXIV needs and especially Yoshi P. is having it grow like a virus.

Also like some other players have said, and I can vouch for this that I've seen my fair share of bad PF groups antagonizing other players that are not them.

If people need straight evidence then I encourage everyone here to start screenshots because apparently people need some convincing.

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Good post, I've thought a private parser would be a good idea, you can see how this kind of thread just seems to bring out the worst in people. I think what grinds my gears is the ridiculous assumptions from both sides of the fence so to speak (I don't use FFlogs and don't raid, therefore I mustn't monitor my dps, therefore I must be lazy and expect to be carried .. (I do like improving and maximising though for definite, I just don't like raiding, never have, never will). Or that all raiders are egotistical buttheads :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ShadowHunterrX

Or people will just stop playing ?

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Less lazy /bad players hiding behind lack of basic tools quitting would still improve dps ques. I love this games complexity and mechanics over damage sponge mindset, if they want to faceroll and see big boom numbers there are other mmos that are just that like warcrack. I'm fine with my own parses but I've yet to see why anyone who is trying to learn and play better wouldn't want to actually see results. Seems like those opposed have something to hide even from themselves.

You know what, thinking on how many people just love to take this anti parser mess to the extreme, I am in agreement that harassment over dps numbers happens. I just highly doubt it's to the extent that certain individuals make it out to be.

So let's see it. Show some screenshots and prove that this toxicity is as prevalent as some of you say it is. Surely with all the energy that some of you have expended in saying that this harassment happens so much, you can bring in some screens with the names edited out. Real screenshots, too. Not set ups to make raiders look bad.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

I joined a party for that once, and it was a lootmaster. Turns out the DRG partly leader had never cleared it, and was dead on the ground for most of the time. When we called him out on it, he said something along the lines of "It's my party, I can do what I want". We all left and blacklisted.

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Well yeah he is right he can open a party like that. But i completly understand you and the others and i would've done the same.

Had to log in just for this joke of a thread.

First off, paragraphs, please use them, reading that wall of text made my eyes hurt, I'm not kidding. My eyes actually hurt for like 5 minutes.

Second, no one cares about damage in anything outside savage. No one will bother you, no one will remove you from parties, they won't care about your existence. Endgame content aka savage and higher require the team to know what they're doing and be able to do good DPS. You are blaming player incompetence on parsers, which is insane to say the least.

There's no discrimination, it's simple thought process. If a player cannot carry his own weight in a raid, why would you allow said player to join? Why should I carry you when you are incapable of doing your job? Seems insane to me. Numbers tell reality, they do not lie, people however always lie about their skill level. People didn't suddenly stop using Shadewalker, Diversion and so on because of parsers, the good players still use them, what you are forgetting is that the majority of the playerbase is bad. This game is casual enough it appeals to the most casual people ever. They don't consider learning to play the class, they just press buttons and think they are doing extremely well when in reality, they are terrible.

Then there's the common argument of "you don't pay for my sub", which is fair, I am not paying your sub. You are not paying mine either, tell me again why I should play with you? I'm not forced to, I don't want to play with you if your performance is low. So I will just remove you from the party. I'm within my rights to do so.

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

And this is the reason why players that don't like feeling responsible all flee to the dps role - it's so much easier to be careless and lazy when people can't actively gauge how well you're preforming your job. Tanks and healers constantly feel that pressure, not the DPS though. Or at least, not with in-game tools (which translates into, if someone wants to kick a players for being bad and they just happen to be dps, suddenly the person kicking them is in trouble).

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I'm willing to freely admit that the reason I play DPS as a newer player is that I can't handle the responsibility of tank or healer. I enjoy playing DPS as well, so it's not purely that...but it has to do with the fact that I don't like having to lead from the front. As a healer, I know that making a mistake could cost a lot more compared to doing less damage for a few seconds. The first time I tried to tank I did pretty badly, but it's something I'm still willing to do sparingly.

I don't actually see a problem with judging a DPS based on how well they do their job, but one of the reasons I like playing the role is that it lets me stress out less while I'm in a group.

Can you guys just let this thread die. It was a bait from the beginning.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Can you guys just let this thread die. It was a bait from the beginning.

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If it dies, others will rise in its place. This topic will only die when DPS players are officially subjected to the same responsibility that tanks and healers have

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

If it dies, others will rise in its place. This topic will only die when DPS players are officially subjected to the same responsibility that tanks and healers have

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what responsibility
pressing 1 combo/button over and over?

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Originally Posted by 24spencer

what responsibility
pressing 1 combo/button over and over?

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If you think thats the only thing tanks and healers do, if they play properly, then you should learn to play healer and/or tank.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

If you think thats the only thing tanks and healers do, if they play properly, then you should learn to play healer and/or tank.

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I know how to play tanks thanks. I guess 90%iles dont count for anything, or it means i just don't understand what "real tanking" is all about because im a dps greeder or something.
Tanks are not complex, their responsibility boils down to "press a button to take less damage" and "sometimes press a different button so other people take less damage."
Tank DPS rotations are borderline brain-afk in their complexity. Healing in this game is not even remotely hard in any "normal" content unless you spend most of your time afk.

Can people stop treating tanks and healers like they're this magically difficujlt, stressful role? If i spent an entire dungeon pressing nothing but flash I could walk out with 3 comms because people seem to think that's hard and makes me "responsible". It's a joke.

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

Spot on, Geno, spot on.

And this is the reason why players that don't like feeling responsible all flee to the dps role - it's so much easier to be careless and lazy when people can't actively gauge how well you're preforming your job. Tanks and healers constantly feel that pressure, not the DPS though. Or at least, not with in-game tools (which translates into, if someone wants to kick a players for being bad and they just happen to be dps, suddenly the person kicking them is in trouble).

SE, still serious about trying to improve queue time for dps? Instead of trying to dumb down healing and tanking, put some pressure on DPS roles. You'll see numbers shifting a lot more when "I can be lazy in this role" no longer applies.

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I'd like to just point out that not all DPS ignore or don't feel that pressure, but at the same time, I feel that the ones who actually DO take their damage roles seriously like myself are the far and few rare rubies in a sea of pebbles. I'm constantly putting pressure on myself to perform well simply because I can't always rely or think that the other DPS will do their jobs in a PUG and I never want to that person that's detrimental towards the team.

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Originally Posted by 24spencer

snip

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You clearly haven't played tank at raid level if that's all you think that it is. You have failed to mention enmity management (spawned adds during a high damage phase can be high pressure and challenging while the healers are also trying to heal, or the DPS are trying to meet a tight DPS check), boss positioning, tank mechanics, and cooldown management. Saying tanks are easy and brain-dead is factually wrong.

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Originally Posted by 24spencer

Can people stop treating tanks and healers like they're this magically difficult, stressful role? If i spent an entire dungeon pressing nothing but flash I could walk out with 3 comms because people seem to think that's hard and makes me "responsible". It's a joke.

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When they were saying "The same responsibility" in that, let me just help you out really quick here.

If your tank can't tank, can't do the content. If your healer can't heal, can't do the content. If your dps can't dps though, then Square pats you on the head, says you tried your best, gives you a sticker, and it's okay.

Remember those ghosts in O5S? The thing you gotta do if you aren't doing WAR or RDM strat? I once got hit by the dps ghost as an ast. I still killed the ghost, mind you having a mini dps check in it itself, before our SMN who got in first. Still killed the boss. Wanna tell me with a straight face, that, by square's own personal check alone and no parse needed to see, that I should be doing more dps than a SMN on AST, you know, the healer with the least dps? Hand holding.

It gets worse as soon as you drop away from savage, even extreme. Look at Tsukuyomi, did you even know it had an enrage? I didn't even see it 12 minutes into the encounter. Was Byakko's enrage just too much so they had to push it back? Considering Byakko's wasn't even a difficult enrage either. So already the content that is stated as being what you do before you do savage, doesn't even want to have noticeable dps checks.

Also, yes, tanking and healing are stressful roles. Because I got to sit there, watch how terrible someone's doing, and get called nasty crap just for giving a tip. Even though I'm a mentor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Wanna tell me with a straight face, that, by square's own personal check alone and no parse needed to see, that I should be doing more dps than a SMN on AST, you know, the healer with the least dps? Hand holding.

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no and not once did i suggest that lmao im just pointing out that the "responsibility" and "difficulty" of playing a tank or a healer in most content is massively overstated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

You clearly haven't played tank at raid level if that's all you think that it is. You have failed to mention enmity management (spawned adds during a high damage phase can be high pressure and challenging while the healers are also trying to heal, or the DPS are trying to meet a tight DPS check), boss positioning, tank mechanics, and cooldown management. Saying tanks are easy and brain-dead is factually wrong.

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yeah you're right i've never done it at all

https://i.imgur.com/CNgqYPB.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 24spencer

no and not once did i suggest that lmao im just pointing out that the "responsibility" and "difficulty" of playing a tank or a healer in most content is massively overstated.[/IMG]

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You're too fast. You're too slow. Why're you in tank stance? Why are you not in tank stance? Keep threat, I shouldn't need diversion. Why're yo doing enmity combo's?

^ Those are just some of what I've recieved leveling a DRK alt and doing the story with. Now let's look at responses I've gotten for healing.

DPS more. Stop DPSing you're a healer. Why're you AST (This was during 3.0). Heal me I'm not moving.

Now let's look at responses I've been told for when I go in things as dps.

... Diversion.

Gee, you're right. Tanks and healers don't have more crap to deal with. Also, bonus note, I mentioned the ghosts because that is the game's personal dps check, and it's easy to beat said check on the job with the lowest dps. And yet I have seen dps fail that check, and we still kill the fight. Imagine if your healers failed the healer check on the ghosts.