Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

I ran the MSQ a few times as a tank, and my experience has been rather good.

First of all, 500 tomes in 45 minutes is a rather good return on my time, especially considering most of that time is in cutscenes. I've heard of people getting two levels in a single run, so that makes it worthwhile.

And this fix addresses a long-standing issue that should have been resolved an expansion ago.

Overall, I rather like this patch.

Finally, to the chap that said that roulettes are for speedrunning, I have to say I disagree.

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Originally Posted by Keyln

I ran the MSQ a few times as a tank, and my experience has been rather good.

First of all, 500 tomes in 45 minutes is a rather good return on my time, especially considering most of that time is in cutscenes. I've heard of people getting two levels in a single run, so that makes it worthwhile.

And this fix addresses a long-standing issue that should have been resolved an expansion ago.

Overall, I rather like this patch.Finally, to the chap that said that roulettes are for speedrunning, I have to say I disagree.

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Agreed, roulettes were to get people into the instances. HOW they played those instances was up to the party and people who were xp/tome maximizers , who have other options which have been apparently proven better xp/tomes per minute, took away an experience from those who didn't have an option for completing that part of the MSQ.

The main problem here is they're used to it being a certain way.

while I continue to say nothing needs to be changed for the current iteration of the roulette, we need to do something about running the instance OUT of the roulette.. but that is the ONLY adjustment I can see necessary without further, and extensive data on the current MSQ runs.

Only that change negatively affected those who the roulette wasn't catering to.

Also as was earlier said, if it can be dynamically changed to having skippable cutscenes if no new runners are present, that should be done as well and is quite fair.

Arguably the line should have been designed better in the first place and the decision to keep it without modification all these years is questionable. However the likelyhood of modifying the current system is much greater than expecting a demonstrably resistant to rework team to redo the whole thing.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Here's one where the the OP is at 100Another one where the first reply agreeing to the OP is at 156

Both topics not posted just after a big change on that subject, which likely gives a lot of attention to recent threads, and that don't have half of their content complaining before ever knowing how much of an issue this could be (For example, when people still hoped they could skip the cutscenes in premade and were only complaining about the roulette, making all the concerns about alts moot back then, or having no real idea or how the reward would be increased)

Again, don't try to prove you're a vast majority...

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You have no idea why they got liked do you? a hint is...it is not because it supports your position.

The king of throwing starmans, and not replying to what is posted to him is advising others on fallacies that is rich.

Protip, try reading posts in full and responding them in full.

"In addition to this, square enix hands out an additional 100 relics if a new member is present for this dungeon. why? likely for this very reason, so that people wouldn't abuse new players."

I have a problem with this, sounds like victimizing. It was never explained what they tried to tell the group in slowing down, how come there was no kicks on the people being jerks? In runs when I come across people like that, ones causing problems, I get kicks passed on the people causing the problems. That post or the 156 thing does not support your point at all and supports mine, SE should not be babying people and forcing people to watch CS at a fixed speed because people do not know how to communicate and treat each other.

"so he typed up a big paragraph which I'm pretty sure included key story points and spoilers from both Heavensward and Stormblood. So now before I've even gotten around to buying the Stormblood expansion, there are a few things I now know beforehand which pisses me off.."

this has nothing about if SE should make these CS unskipable, this is about people not knowing how to act.

So I told you my main point, along with stating before in past posts, they CS are still play at a fixed speed unsync. People should have a right to chose how they do things and how slow, fast they want to watch the CS. Most of the time I see "take all the time you want to watch the CS but we are moving on ahead to finish it because it takes too long" and rarely see anything outside that.

You found 2 posts, one from 2014, grats? still harming 1000 to help 1 because one select group does not know how to communicate, that degree of babying I find insulting. If they want a proper remedy a simple pop up can appear for first time goers suggesting they use the PF if they want to take their time because it can take over 1 hour to watch all the cutscenes. No reasoning in the world will change my stance of 1. making people watch CS at a fixed speed, some read faster, some read slower. 2. making people watch CS at a fixed speed/ at all, in pf unsync groups. In all your posts I do not even know what you are debating here, when I repeatedly state mine while it going ignored.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Also as was earlier said, if it can be dynamically changed to having skippable cutscenes if no new runners are present, that should be done as well and is quite fair.

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This is why we need people that think about what changes will impact the community before actually releasing them. You REALLY.. .REALLY do not see the issue this can bring? 7 people that want to hyper speed it, and a new person forcing CS. step 1, kick the new player, then if the DF still forces the CS unskipable because they entered with the new player, the 7 can leave without penalty.

This change is insulting most of the player base suggesting they need to be babysat to this degree? I do not understand why people would support anything in regards having to do something. It is just gonna mean longer queue times for new players, I am not being "catered to" and it negatively impacts everyone because it makes queue times increase. I see no reason to white knight this change.

For your last my argument is this, you either change it fully to fix the problem, or do not touch it at all. Making a half effort fix is often worse then not doing anything, like we have now to prove such a statement. ether change it to make it solo or revert it back to how it was before 4.2. The playerbase does not need this degree of babying because people do not know how to talk to each other.

As a human being I should have a right how I do things, a right how fast or slow I want to view the CS, not be forced on me, I am shocked more are not insulted by such a concept. I do not need to be told how fast or slow to view a CS. I do what I want.

I find it utterly pathetic and hilarious and sad that people are arguing over something that you are not required to play or use..yet they complain when they use it...ignoring the fact they where told up front what would happen.

But please..do continue beating each other up. *eats popcorn*

Back when I beat MSQ in like... April 2014 I sat through the cut scenes and missed most of the fights. I saw no issue with that because to me, the story was most important anyway. And I smack my head at people saying to watch those cut scenes at the inn because you CAN'T. They don't have the dungeon cutscenes available at the inn, unless they changed something since last I checked.

Making it a solo instance might be best ultimately, but changing the cutscenes out to play in real time would not work and it would be a shame cuz they're some nice scenes that just would not be the same if they were realtime. But I agree that the point in these dungeons being introductory 8 man content is largely pointless at this stage because everyone ignores the mechanics anyway.

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Originally Posted by Terrini

And I smack my head at people saying to watch those cut scenes at the inn because you CAN'T. They don't have the dungeon cutscenes available at the inn, unless they changed something since last I checked.

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Uh yes you can. You can now and you could in 2014 as well. I watched the cutscenes at the inn at my very first run in 2013, and I did again when I reran on new char now. Only difference is you're solo in them.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

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Neph I swear the more stuff I read of yours on the forums the more you are becoming one of my favorite posters lol

On the topic of this, I think the best solution would be to give the 2 instances a box, this box ask if you will sit through cutscenes for extra rewards. If you do not check the box, you are placed in a group consisting of only people who did not check the box, and all cutscenes are auto skipped. If you check the box, you are only placed with players who did check the box.

Simple.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

I find it utterly pathetic and hilarious and sad that people are arguing over something that you are not required to play or use..yet they complain when they use it...ignoring the fact they where told up front what would happen.

But please..do continue beating each other up. *eats popcorn*

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I do with some of you would pay attention to the point that we're not just complaining about the ROULETTE

MSQ/MAIN SCENARIO ROULETTE are not one in the same. If we're gonna make that argument, we're not required to play this game at all. But if I level an new character, which I do regularly, and I want to quickly unsync these dungeons I can't. I have to sit through an hour and a half of, quite frankly, some of the worst garbage CS in the game.

OR

Pay $20 to get past it, and miss out on parts of the game that I actually enjoy.

I love this game and should be able to play at my pace, just as the newbies shouldn't be rushed through, I shouldn't be forced to sit through it.

There are a multitude of problems here not just "Don't run Main scenario roulette if you don't want to."

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Originally Posted by Terrini

They don't have the dungeon cutscenes available at the inn, unless they changed something since last I checked.

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The scenes are there, it's just that their 'filing system' is rather fragmented.

When you first open the menu, you get the list of ARR Main Scenario Quests, ending in "The Ultimate Weapon" which shows the ending cutscenes that play after you exit the Praetorium dungeon instance.

To get the actual dungeon cutscenes, you have to select the green Instanced Dungeons icon to access (unsurprisingly) the list of dungeons.

I couldn't find them either at first. I also think it may be genuinely missing a short scene that happened inbetween the two dungeons, but possibly that was just a talking-in-game scene and not an actual cutscene.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

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Lying to yourself wont solve the problem either.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Lying to yourself wont solve the problem either.

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PLEASE do tell me what I'm lying to myself about.

Most of my Main Scenario roulette runs do not have a single person. Ironically enough, we kind of enjoyed some chats about patches, story, gameplay, etc., during the cutscenes. In some other instances, I also check on my FC chat, linkshells, Discord chat rooms, and other FFXIV forums.

As far as time spent on runs go, Castrum Meridianum isn't a problem in terms of time spent. It's still less than 30 minutes on average with a good group (faster than the most of my average Skalla runs.) Praetorium can be too long for repeated plays though.

YMMV on the return of poetic tomes and exp earned. The exp is satisfactory for me and I use poetic tomes for Shire Accessories to turn in to GC. I can get ventures, GC mats, food (for extra EXP and secondary stats), and various other items without breaking the bank (in this case, gil.)

I know some think just rearranging things and moving the cutscenes to the end is a good plan - but after actually getting to watch them, they are extremely beneficial to new players as they explain the objectives as you go along.

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Originally Posted by Usho

I await your counter argument white knights.

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I also dont like this change at all and I cant really see how this can be seen as good in any way. I also know that there are some posters that seem to defend any kind of changes from SE but please stop with the white knight parts of your post. Insulting others with that is not a good way to have an discussion. Just post your opinions without that one and thats completely fine.

Edit:

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I forgot to respond to this earlier.

I agree that the story quality is.... variable, but when it gets good it gets really good. The late part of ARR starting from when Lahabrea is unmasked. The ending of the "hundred quests" where all the pieces set up beforehand fall into place one after the other. The aftermath of the Vault.

I'm also curious whether I'll get bored of it, to be honest. I've only gotten Castrum since the cutscene change was brought in.

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Oh I do watch every cutscene for the first time too even if the story is not the most greatest ever. But I also can understand that people just play a MMO for something else and they were able to skip all the CS if they dont care about it. But right now even that is not possible anymore.

And honestly when I was trying to get my retainers for my alts I just skipped most of them and only watched the bigger ones so I also can understand that people with twinks might not want to watch them again.

Maybe instead of forcing cutscenes on everyone they could have made barriers for the bosses thus people could still kill the trash mobs between bosses while the newer players are watching the cutscenes but the bosses had to be done with everyone there. So people could make it still a bit faster by clearing it up to the bosses. Still not optimal but honestly better than what we have now. (The best imo would still be solo duties)

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

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Why was this posted in like 6 threads?

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

Why was this posted in like 6 threads?

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Good question, I'd say with all of the complaining, I might as well put some of my input before it falls on deaf ears.

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Originally Posted by Veliena

*snip*

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DAWWWWWW <3

*looks at the crowd*

Honestly there is no solution...its a paradox.

Problem A: There are new players (and the stupid part is everyone claims otherwise..you people can just go shove it :P ) that want to see the cut-scenes ONCE..but cant and where pressured to speed run this...I was one of them by the way (newbies that is)....And some quit the game...obviously SE Saw this and got fed up.
Problem B: People grinding the MSQ Roulette for a decent EXP/Tome bonus - but they don't like cut-scenes....so ermmmhurrdurr they brute force the 2 dungeons and leave the poor newbies behind.

Fact: Of the entire series these are the only 2 dungeons like this....people are all panic'd and going "oh shit" they are going to do this again! PANIC! PANIC PANIC! PANIC! THE WORLD IS GOING oh please shut up already. SE will never do anything like this again. This is old content they are trying to deal with. Grow up already.
Fact: People who use this roulette don't have too..they can go somewhere else...yet they pick it anyway and have the gal to come here and bitch about it? T.T;
Fact: The only LEGITIMATE complaint right now for anything to do with this change are people who DO join - only to find others ditching the game (and should be -ditchers- thrice damned because they KNEW what was going on in the first place) leaving behind people who are stuck with it.

Oh and Mentors - yes you - you lose the right to complain by default if you join this roulette (via mentor or when wearing the badge)...don't got the time? Don't commit.

But alas....will anyone pay attention? Nope...too content to complain and beat each other senseless and blame it all on SE.

Do I like this change? No.
So I wont do the roulette... UNLESS its in mentor duty and I have enough time to finish the job..and you can be damn sure I won't ditch either unless I have no choice. Because is the right thing to do.
But you don't see me complaining about this like some total child moron now do you.

You may be paying for your subscriptions guys...you may say "I play my way or the high way" guess what...you don't own this game....leave if you don't like it....or better yet..how about you actually listen to the best advise overall.

STOP USING THE MSQ ROULLETE. It's what I'm doing :P (unless I have time to kill)

The newbies will be in total pain but SE will have to do something about it. Bitching about it on the forums is pathetic - your beating a dead horse....and you wont get anywhere further than whats already been said.
Mentors however..will need to step up and take care of things...instead of being lazy ego-tistical-elitists who think they are better than anyone else.

Solutions offered are unique...but like it or not - these 2 dungeons are unique and require a full party to run PROPERLY - any other change would be a significant rewrite.
Cut-scene vote would be a good idea - but i don't see it happening because people troll with vote systems already every day <vote abandon/vote kick etc>

Bottom line - you want SE's attention? Stop doing it....or leave....but stop making yourselves to be fools by keeping this argumentation up and making a dozen more threads over the same damn thing.

The irony is...people who don't like this..will skip cut-scenes if permitted..and you can be damn sure they will leave the newbies behind and make some stupid excuse....which means you have no excuse period. if you can't figure that out...you have zero cause to be complaining because there is only one person here to blame for this change.....and thats the people who skipped cut-scenes adnausim and speed run the dungeon.

Like it or not... SE picks newbies over anyone else...period. Ignore that fact..and you damn yourself. So until a proper solution is thought of to keep everyone happy...you'll have to get used to the current system. Revert it - and newbies will start complaining in droves.

Damned if you do..damned if your don't...but please stop this pathetic argumentation.....

*hops off soap box*

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

this has nothing about if SE should make these CS unskipable, this is about people not knowing how to act.

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Meridianum and Praetorium are introduced, but no one runs it several times, so, late player have a hard time running it.
SE creates the MSQ roulette to encourage people to return there, some people are putting pressure to skip CS because they don't want to waste time.
SE introduced the kick system to encourage people playing nice, some people use it to be jerks with new players, like, for example :

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

step 1, kick the new player, then if the DF still forces the CS unskipable because they entered with the new player, the 7 can leave without penalty.

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SE introduced the new player bonus, to make it more bearable to run with new players, and increase the reward/time ratio.
SE introduced wonder tails, encouraging player to return to old content, and at the same time, increases the new player bonus for any content that's not directly linked to wondrous tails.

Apparently, it didn't really change the situation, since, after all that, they come to the conclusion that the only way to really fix the initial problem is to stop people from rushing, but still drastically increase the reward.

At one point will you realize that a significant part of the community is still behaving like jerks even after all the bonuses they gave, and they're bored of finding solution that people will still bypass just to still be jerks ?
You don't think the MSQ roulette is worth it, fine, don't run it. And all the people that acted like jerks in the past will also stop running it ensuring that the remaining people will allow for pleasant runs for new players, and still get a worthy reward when they decide to level a fresh level 50 characters.

Keep your "strawman" escape all you want, keep your position because you have all the right to, I'm just glad we won't ever cross with each other in the MSQ roulette thanks to our different POV.

See you again ! or not...

There is a solution..its called solo instanced duties..give them a bunch of NPC soldiers or adventurers (which makes sense since we are attacking it with others) and people can watch it all they want with no pressure. If you dont like stories just skip it, if you like cutscenes you can watch them in your own pace. Heck you can go to the toilet without missing something because you need to click onto this yourself..and for veteran players that want to watch the full one themselves..well introduce another NPC that will let the WoL remember that dungeon thus introducing the first step of being able to re-do solo duties.

Win win for everyone. (Since they could just make the experience higher in other roulettes thus taking that one out would not hurt much)

I still find it funny when people are posting in a thread that people should stop arguing about a change, especially with such a huge post. If you dont like people whining about it (which surely could be a bad change for newer players..) how about ignoring the threads? Nobody is forcing someone to read it. x) But whining about people whining seems to be in.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Dramatics

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...Ok yeah nice, but still tell me why I have to watch those garbage cut scenes when I am running my alts through the main story. Unsynced in PF or with a friend.

I don't give a chocobo's behind about the Main scenario roulette anymore. Won't do it ever again. Won't help anyone asking for help with those dungeon again. Won't. That's not a problem. I don't need the exp or the tomes from it.

Where as I use to be the person explaining things to newbies, waiting for them, or telling them not to skip the CS and enjoy their story. I've run into plenty of people that were ready and eager to skip cut scenes because the read up on the instances before hand, but I would still tell them they shouldn't because I do think the story should be enjoyed the first time through, something that I didn't get my first run. I am not needed to do this anymore. They can sit and watch it and not worry now.

But I do have a few alts that I would like to finish the story on though. Now tell me why I can't skip cut scenes that I have already seen a dozen times before, when I want to get the duty quickly done.

You keep nagging about points that I've seen few and far between even bring up on the recent pages, and making drama out of it, when I'm not even seeing any people talking about what you're saying.

You could just as well take your own advice and walk away if you don't like it.

Nothing gets changes if you're quiet about it, and I will not be quiet about it.

I don't understand what is so hard about not queuing for MSQ Roulette. No one is forcing anyone to run the roulette daily for EXP/Tomes. I hate running expert, so I don't do it... I just don't understand what's so hard about just simply not running it.

If queue times for new players become terrible where they can't clear it, I'm pretty sure SE will actually do something about it since MSQ gates content and they will lose subscribers if they don't.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

...Ok yeah nice, but still tell me why I have to watch those garbage cut scenes when I am running my alts through the main story. Unsynced in PF or with a friend.

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I will agree that there should be an option via PF/Unsync to skip the CS's in these dungeons.

The problem here is they're doing it wrong expecially with Praetorium.

Castrum is reasonable because theres only 2 odd semi long CS's but overall it doesnt change much.

Praetorium on the other hand is WAY over the top. So much so that with some of the CS's people will just afk most of the dungeon. Its ironically faster as well to unplug the modem cable to force DC and relog and you bypass the CS entirely. This is whats gonna start happening with older players who arent in the mood. They'll just work around it once they get fed up.

The simplest and most effective solution would be to basically turn most of castrum meridanum into a solo instance and make livia a trial fight like rhitalyn and as for the praetorium the same thing with the ultima fight its own trial. That would solve the issue as newbies arent likely to miss CS's that much. Even if the CS's were unskippable on the latter it would be only 2 as opposed to 6 or 7 which is ridiculous.

I never had problems with newbies in the dungeon they were free poetics and anyone whinging about it were utter muppets. Anyone vote kicking for someone watching a CS deserved to be kicked themselves for griefing.

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Originally Posted by Ashiee

I don't understand what is so hard about not queuing for MSQ Roulette.

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Truth be told: Neither.

The change is live, we've seen the rewards and I deemed them not worth it for me, so now I just sit back and watch if it becomes an issue or not. If it somehow doesn't become an issue, well... yay? I like being wrong when I'm doomsaying. If it does, I can still come back going:"I told you so."

But for now... wait and see.

I tried both dungeons and compared the tomestone gains to Aetherochemical Research Facility.

Castrum: 40 minutes
Prae: 50 minutes
ARF: 25 minutes

Poetic tomes:
normal / roulette bonus / noob bonus
100 / 200 / 100
200 / 200 / 100
150 / - / 100

Poetic tomes per minute:
normal / roulette bonus / noob bonus / roulette and noob bonus
2,5 / 7,5 / 5 / 10
4 / 8 / 6 / 10
6 / - / 10 / -

If a first-timer is with you on the run, then MSQ roulette and ARF are equally efficient and offer the best tome gains. Without a new player MSQ roulette is better than ARF. MSQ dungeons are not worth running for Poetic tomes without the roulette bonus.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I tried both dungeons and compared the tomestone gains to Aetherochemical Research Facility.

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Below lvl 60, you don't have access to ARF.

And there is also the Xp gain to take into account.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

why take out the roulette bonus for ARF? it is in the lv 50-60 roulette correct?

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Because the 50-60 roulette has many other dungeons with much smaller Poetic gains and getting ARF in the roulette is not guaranteed. I used to farm Poetics by doing ARF over and over which is why I made the comparison.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

arf is around 15-20 btw, anything over 20 someone is slacking

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If you can do it in 15 minutes that's 10 Poetics/minute which makes it better than MSQ roulette. A 20 minute run is as efficient as doing Castrum in the roulette, but worse than doing Prae in the roulette, so I would pick MSQ roulette over ARF if a 15 minute run isn't doable. My 25 minute run was synced and unsync is obviously faster.

You can get done 2 ARF runs within the timeframe of finishing a non-skippable cutscene MSQ dungeons. MSQ roulette prior to 4.2 took like 15 or so mins to get done even with newbies and a lot of them just skipped the cutscenes anyway. Not everyone wants to sit through old cutscenes (which you will WATCH EVERYDAY I MIGHT ADD) you can just rewatch at a inn or on youtube.

As far as exp, I would get more or relatively the same exp from msq roulette doing Alliance Raid Roulette. As for tomes, farming via MSQ roulette is inefficient for the amount of time it will now take to finish them compared to just farming ARF x2 in the timeframe it would take to finish MSQ roulette now and you would get the same amount of tomes and with a run taking less time. If you don't mind rewatching the scene cutscenes over and over and over again everyday...fine. As for me, I value my time and won't touch msq roulette again and if i need to farm poetics I have other means to get them at a faster pace.

I honestly think it was better the way it was before because everyone had options. Veterens and newbies who didn't really care about the story or who were fine with just viewing the scenes at the inn were able to speedrun, and those who really cared about the story/felt that they really needed to see the scenes while in the dungeon and that watching at the inn just wasn't the same, were able to ask friends for help or find help on party finder. With these changes it doesn't matter if you go with friends or find like minded players on party finder, you still HAVE to watch the cutscenes.

I know I know, "if you don't like it don't run it." I won't, but that doesn't mean I can't have the opinion that these changes weren't great. I think if they weren't willing to go back and make some sweeping changes to these dungeons, then the best solution would have just been to give a warning to first timers that the upcoming dungeons are going to be heavy on cut scenes and to go with friends or try party finder for the best experience.

I still think queues for these dungeons are going to go up as time goes on, but obviously no one regardless of opinion has any numbers to back that up. Only SE knows, so if after a few months there is still a sifficient amount of people queueing to get the first timers through, then great. Those of us who are finished with that part of the story and don't want to do the dungeons can just move forward and not look back. And those of us who have alts... well I can still hope at the very least they will change it so a preformed party can decide if they want cutscenes or not.

Also lets not forget every single person becomes a vet of these two instances as soon as they've run it once. A newbie first timer today, a vet wanna get it done speedrunner tomrrow. These changes are punishing to the majority of players tbh. And like I said, newbies who care about the story always had options before these changes, now no one does.

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Originally Posted by Tempest222

...
Also lets not forget every single person becomes a vet of these two instances as soon as they've run it once. A newbie first timer today, a vet wanna get it done speedrunner tomrrow. These changes are punishing to the majority of players tbh. And like I said, newbies who care about the story always had options before these changes, now no one does.

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Newbies had options but it wasn't convenient to get it done in a less than involved manner.
You had to build the PF and wait for people to join then start it. If you ARE a new person, the chances you've used PF are low, but the chances you used DF are high since that actually has precedent earlier in the game.
I get that taking a roulette out of regular rotation sucks, I get that it seems like they've taken away something that people had measured and used. But the "option" was always that for people helping out. They didn't need it but the sprouts did. The sprouts NEEDED people to help and if they could not find people who wanted to do the story run without skipping things they were stuck in progression.

The people who don't want to watch cutscenes now? Don't go. You've lost very little, and by the attitude given by many people in this thread , they don't even think poetics are worth anything anyway (I still use them for lots, but that's not what the prevalent attitude is).

As I've said a few times before I agree there IS a problem in that you cannot skip CS if you are revisiting for an alt , even if you PF it or just queue solo. That SUCKS. That needs to change because the choice has been taken out of it. But there are parts of the change I still think were necessary with the changing available playerbase.

'''Duty Roulette Cutscenes'' with no bonus tomestomes. Than all the problems will be solved.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Newbies had options but it wasn't convenient to get it done in a less than involved manner.

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https://youtu.be/LDwFCoj-0js

Sorry, if you want to talk convenience, what is more convenient is giving people to chose how fast or slow they want to view the CS. I really question your ability to post on convenience when you shown some support for the glam changes since it is anything but. Temppest hit the nail on the head, if they felt the need to make a small change, they could made a warning prompt about using the PF for a few friends if they want to take their time.

This change was not nessery at all! people need to take more responsibility in how they comminucate and go about doing things. You really think people want to be given no say in the matter? I do not see you commenting on my post or others on this issue of not getting a choice in how we play. You are also forgetting there is a good number of people that are new that DO NOT CARE!!!! about watching the CS.

How can you sit here, talk about what is convenient or not when SE made a change to force something on you, over the old way. NO MATTER the spin you put on things, the current state is LESS convenient then before, why do you think people white knighting this change is the minority?

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Because the 50-60 roulette has many other dungeons with much smaller Poetic gains and getting ARF in the roulette is not guaranteed. I used to farm Poetics by doing ARF over and over which is why I made the comparison.



If you can do it in 15 minutes that's 10 Poetics/minute which makes it better than MSQ roulette. A 20 minute run is as efficient as doing Castrum in the roulette, but worse than doing Prae in the roulette, so I would pick MSQ roulette over ARF if a 15 minute run isn't doable. My 25 minute run was synced and unsync is obviously faster.

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i do not think you get tomes if you unsync, 25 mins just means people do not have a clue how to play, like ST BLMs, etc. or gear level check bypassing, or a combo of not knowing how to play and ilevel bypassing. 15-20, in that range, 15 and under would be an outlier, i doono how possible it is with all the loading, bt 15-20 min is the norm if people know what they are doing.

Also I think it should be noted that 50-59 is the fastest rate of exp and it does give tomes, so you can level 17-60 (whatever start level is) and use the tomes you gained 50-60 to buy 60 gear. There is no reason even a new person or new alt to touch the MSQ roulette for gains.

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Originally Posted by NaoTenbe

At this point, I think the only compromise we're gonna get is if EVERYONE in the group votes to skip a scene, then it can be skipped.
What worries me the most about this, is... what if they decide to start imposing non skippable cutscenes on OTHER duties or story?

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I think it's clear SE has learned from their mistakes with the 2.0 MSQ dungeons. None of the content since Heavensward has had large cutscenes in the middle of an instance. Each instance has, at most, a short intro cutscene and a short final boss cutscene, with story scenes taking place only after the duty is complete.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Cut-scene vote would be a good idea - but i don't see it happening because people troll with vote systems already every day <vote abandon/vote kick etc>

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I could only see cutscene vote skipping working if they did it like Overwatch, where each player votes anonymously and the cutscene only gets skipped if every player votes to skip it.
https://i.imgur.com/KzeQbNl.png

I agree that the MSQ roulette has been killed by making the scenes unskippable. I know there are new players that want to watch the cs and I'm fine with that, but how about either making a single player instance for those that want to do it with the cs in tact to see them and then the multi player instance for the roulette with the cs basically disabled altogether. This way we don't even have to worry about the parts where you freeze up for a bit in order to skip the cs.

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Originally Posted by kallii

I agree that the MSQ roulette has been killed by making the scenes unskippable. I know there are new players that want to watch the cs and I'm fine with that, but how about either making a single player instance for those that want to do it with the cs in tact to see them and then the multi player instance for the roulette with the cs basically disabled altogether. This way we don't even have to worry about the parts where you freeze up for a bit in order to skip the cs.

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Because a single player instance or "solo run" version would take a lot of development time and resources and the chance of SE spending those on a much older piece of the game is very low. It's not NOTHING, but they'd be much likelier to make a small change like votes on the run or dynamic switches for the unskippable part than re-working an entire dungeon for one player + NPCs.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

I could only see cutscene vote skipping working if they did it like Overwatch, where each player votes anonymously and the cutscene only gets skipped if every player votes to skip it.
https://i.imgur.com/KzeQbNl.png

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this is also an excellent solution, but I don't know how easy this would be to add on since we have no current system like this.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

this is also an excellent solution, but I don't know how easy this would be to add on since we have no current system like this.

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Final patch, expansion after next. Look forward to it!

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Originally Posted by Beckett

I think it's clear SE has learned from their mistakes with the 2.0 MSQ dungeons. None of the content since Heavensward has had large cutscenes in the middle of an instance. Each instance has, at most, a short intro cutscene and a short final boss cutscene, with story scenes taking place only after the duty is complete.



I could only see cutscene vote skipping working if they did it like Overwatch, where each player votes anonymously and the cutscene only gets skipped if every player votes to skip it.
https://i.imgur.com/KzeQbNl.png

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it would not work here, as soon as there is a force view cs and people know that others will hit that to troll or whatever , 2 things will happen, one people will expect the person to admit who did it so they can kick the person or give them a hard time, or simply leave the DF.

The best solution is to put the things way back they where before 4.2 and give a pop up prompt to those clearing it for the first time, if they want to go slow and view the cs, it is advised to get a group of friends and unsync it. Otherwise be happy people are actually queuing for it.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Because a single player instance or "solo run" version would take a lot of development time and resources and the chance of SE spending those on a much older piece of the game is very low.

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Then they had no business making a change at all after all this time, as I said before, half bake solutions can lead to worse situations then leaving it alone, like this case. If they want to please a very tiny minority of the game, they better put more effort in doing so, not inconvenience the majority.

Remove unskipable cutsenes, put gates before every boss that only open if nobody watch a CS.
This way people who want can watch CS, while other can skip it and still wait fo those who watch CS.

I remember in Guild Wars every single person could skip the cutscene but it kept playing as long as even one person didn't skip it (and it showed how many persons clicked skip). But if everybody skipped it, it would stop for everybody. I think that would be a decent compromise too.
Though what Felis proposes is the best solution imho.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Remove unskipable cutsenes, put gates before every boss that only open if nobody watch a CS.
This way people who want can watch CS, while other can skip it and still wait fo those who watch CS.

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This would end up outing who was not skipping, and then speedrunners may votekick.

I'm very disappointed with the decision they made, for multiple reasons. They honestly could have just gated the fights until everyone was done watching/skipping the scenes or just made it a solo instance.

As someone who has 16 characters (I know it's a ridiculous amount) 15 who have to do these two MSQ dungeons at some point, it makes me never want to bother with it. Each one takes 30-50 minutes (just estimating) and I have to do that 30 times if you count both?

I could even see new players leaving after being faced with a dungeon with 30 minutes of cutscenes, probably after waiting a long time just to get in because no one will want to do it.

Im hoping SE will change it back or do something to fix it, though I doubt they will.