PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

If they want to have healers in a role where they are dpsing a lot give them some synergy with their dps skills. Otherwise create engaging healers gameplay.

---

I just wanted to quote this for emphasis because YES.

I'd prefer the latter. If I wanted a game where everyone was a dps, I'd go play GW2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naunet

I just wanted to quote this for emphasis because YES.

I'd prefer the latter. If I wanted a game where everyone was a dps, I'd go play GW2.

---

The game even teaches or tells you to heal when there is no incoming DMG. Yes there are tanks, healers and dps, but to understand the view of the others in this thread, everyone has utlity and damage skills, why not use them? It's like saying warrior is a tank but should stay in defiance? Makes no sense to me. When a OT doesnt tank, his or her job is to do dmg, same with healers. When 1 healer can do healing on its own for a while or no required healing for a while from both, might as well use those skills you get through lvling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anzaman

If that means that players who AFK 80% of the dungeon only go in with premade groups, I'm fine with that.

---

Have fun trying to get anything done with 2-3 hour queues, while "heal only" healers are clearing content 5-6x faster than you are with their premades.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Have fun trying to get anything done with 2-3 hour queues, while "heal only" healers are clearing content 5-6x faster than you are with their premades.

---

I'm healer myself, and have premade group of my own - so eh. :p

If were only looking at HW for now it's not unreasonable to be asking anyone to be doing more whether its the single target tank who pulls big groups and doesn't want to use overpower ect. cause it cost's to much TP. BRD/ MCH who dont use songs when they should be. or the afk healers who fail at the ABC always be casting.

VIX as it is now wasn't built for only healers cause the dmg output from dungeons or what not don't support that kind of play. They might change that for SB but would you want a tank who pulls everything and spams flash til he is out of MP and stand around for the rest of the fight? If I don't dps on my healers in leveling or roulettes when I do them I find it incredibly boring to stand around doing F all waiting for dmg when I can help clear the dungeon quicker and possibly skip mechanics or phases by adding in a little dps

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarex

Snip

---

YMMV on that. Unlike tanks, healers don't actually have any innate mechanics that revolve around their dps, leading to a case of pre ft DRG, where they achieve maximum dps by spamming less than a handful of abilities. I can only speak for myself, but I find dpsing as a healer to be the single most boring aspect of any class in the game, because they have literally no mechanics involved. All you're doing is putting up two DoTs and spamming filler, no different than drg at the low levels. About the only times I'm engaged as a healer are when I'm actually required to be healing full time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

but I find dpsing as a healer to be the single most boring aspect of any class in the game, because they have literally no mechanics involved. All you're doing is putting up two DoTs and spamming filler.

---

so because of this reasoning it's acceptable for someone to be AFK and get carried by doing literally nothing for portions of a dungeon/ raid or trial when there is no dmg or very little going out that doesn't require both healers to heal if people aren't standing in stupid and failing mechanics. For people new to a fight, learning or what not It's perfectly fine to not do as much dmg or focus on what they have to heal in a fight. I personally think we need a intermidiate or expert hall of novice for people to learn how to play XIV as it's quite different from other MMO's. As bad as SWTOR has become you almost never had to ask healers to DPS and it was usually the really good ones who found a way to squeeze DPS in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarex

so because of this reasoning it's acceptable for someone to be AFK

---

Well, it's more like I can sympathize with why they do. Healing most content in this game is so easy I can have a book in my free hand while I use the other to sling an incredibly simple dps rotation without putting any effort or actual care into what I'm doing. Sometimes I glance up and notice the tank is at 10% HP, but a quick hotbar swap and benediction later I'm back to being semi AFK until everything's dead, then rinse and repeat. That's boring healing design.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neophyte

http://i.imgur.com/5GfYaSP.png

---

That illustrates the problem that people are imagining (healers watching netflix or other utterly ridiculous notions of being lazy.)

Notice how the arguments about "hurr hurr, healer doesn't dps, kick em" tend to align with people don't even play the healer class, it's mainly tanks saying this. Y'know the other class that can re-queue in the duty finder rather quickly.

If DPS people are saying this, then they should be the one who is kicked, because that comes across as a demand to be carried. If a tank says it, it's saying that the tank doesn't believe the DPS are competent. If a healer wants to DPS, they can DPS, but if you force them to DPS, then it's going to be a miserable run as you repeatedly wipe, thus being counter-productive.

If you have a static that works well together you can figure out what people are best at, and leave it at that. Making entitled demands of PUG's is just arrogant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

If DPS people are saying this, then they should be the one who is kicked, because that comes across as a demand to be carried.

---

Stop. Implying. People. Are. Suggesting. Healers. REPLACE. DPS.

A healer DPSing does not mean a DPS hits for less, it adds to the group DPS.

You could have 2-4 of the worlds best DPS and you can still contribute DPS as a healer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

That illustrates the problem that people are imagining (healers watching netflix or other utterly ridiculous notions of being lazy.)

---

People who are talking about kicking healers are talking about healers who are literally idle, jumping or /dancing or /follow on tank. Healers like this:

http://i.imgur.com/t2h4Cav.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Notice how the arguments about "hurr hurr, healer doesn't dps, kick em" tend to align with people don't even play the healer class, it's mainly tanks saying this.

---

It's hard to say anything about which jobs people play based on their forum accounts, but I can say I've been a healer main in this game in 1.0.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

If DPS people are saying this, then they should be the one who is kicked, because that comes across as a demand to be carried. If a tank says it, it's saying that the tank doesn't believe the DPS are competent.

---

This has been said a billion times, but no one is asking healers to DPS to cover for DDs. People are asking healers to DPS because otherwise (apart from specific situations, of course) healers are being much less active than their party members, and that's not fair.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Making entitled demands of PUG's is just arrogant.

---

It's not entitled to ask for your party members to participate in an equal manner. And the exact same thing (trying to be as active as possible in a meaningful way) is asked from every single party member. The difference is, healer players tend to be the only ones that try to argue why it would be ok to leave a vital part of their toolkit unused. You don't see any "I'm a BRD but I shouldn't be asked to sing/DPS" threads here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

That illustrates the problem that people are imagining (healers watching netflix or other utterly ridiculous notions of being lazy.)

Notice how the arguments about "hurr hurr, healer doesn't dps, kick em" tend to align with people don't even play the healer class, it's mainly tanks saying this. Y'know the other class that can re-queue in the duty finder rather quickly.

If DPS people are saying this, then they should be the one who is kicked, because that comes across as a demand to be carried. If a tank says it, it's saying that the tank doesn't believe the DPS are competent. If a healer wants to DPS, they can DPS, but if you force them to DPS, then it's going to be a miserable run as you repeatedly wipe, thus being counter-productive.

If you have a static that works well together you can figure out what people are best at, and leave it at that. Making entitled demands of PUG's is just arrogant.

---

Siiigh. Can we stop with this nonsense?

DPS aren't being carried. They are asking you not stand around doing nothing. If DPSing means you allow the tank to die, you're either a bad player or inexperienced and need more practice. I had a Dun Scaith run the other night with roughly 80-85% Cleric uptime. I literally did not turn it off once throughout the second boss. And not for "muh deeps" but because the Astro co-healer had everything covered. If I hadn't been DPSing, I would have been next to useless. Basically, you are saying it's perfectly acceptable I do nothing at all, but if the DPS or tank question me, the former just sucks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taika

The difference is, healer players tend to be the only ones that try to argue why it would be ok to leave a vital part of their toolkit unused.

---

Counterpoint: Assuming healer dps is a vital part of their toolkit, they would have internal mechanics that encourage the player to do it, either by having it feed back directly into their healing or other internal resources. Every other job has their vital aspect covered with internal mechanics which is another reason why tanks are encouraged to dps, and of course dps players have mechanics that revolve around dealing damage, the core aspect of their kit. Considering that, trying to argue healer dps is "vital" is extremely reaching and feels like grasping at straws, when it would be better described as "nice".

Edit: Lovely limits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taika

You mean like Assize or Energy Drain? Or Holy that works as damage mitigation.

---

I'll concede SCH Aetherflow/energy drain, but neither Holy or Assize are mechanics, like BotD, Enochian, or Wrath/Abandon, all of which revolve around both dealing damage and wrap back around to support the rest of the job's kit. Holy and Assize would be more akin to a BLM dropping Apoc on a weakened player or a MCH using Rend Mind: Nice to have, but is a utility that doesn't actually feed back into their kit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Counterpoint: Assuming healer dps is a vital part of their toolkit, they would have internal mechanics that encourage the player to do it, either by having it feed back directly into their healing or other internal resources.

---

You mean like Assize or Energy Drain? Or Holy that works as damage mitigation? :P

I'm describing them as "vital" because the DPS abilities are very powerful and have a huge role in how the healer jobs are played in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Counterpoint: Assuming healer dps is a vital part of their toolkit, they would have internal mechanics that encourage the player to do it, either by having it feed back directly into their healing or other internal resources. Every other job has their vital aspect covered with internal mechanics which is another reason why tanks are encouraged to dps, and of course dps players have mechanics that revolve around dealing damage, the core aspect of their kit. Considering that, trying to argue healer dps is "vital" is extremely reaching and feels like grasping at straws, when it would be better described as "nice".

---

How are you making an absurd argument that Healers don't have DPS attributes when 1/4 to 1/3 of theirs kits are DPS skills?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Notice how the arguments about "hurr hurr, healer doesn't dps, kick em" tend to align with people don't even play the healer class, it's mainly tanks saying this.

---

really? I see quite a few main healers speaking up FOR healer dps, count me in there too.btw.
Some of my friends may not main healers,but they do feel like healing every once in a while and usually dps too.

Not gonna comment on the rest of your post, plenty of others already covered that already.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taika

You mean like Assize or Energy Drain? Or Holy that works as damage mitigation? :P

I'm describing them as "vital" because the DPS abilities are very powerful and have a huge role in how the healer jobs are played in the game.

---

I have been wondering for a while now if there even is any particular use for skills like Holy outside of group content.
Not sure how well a lvling healer in sub-par lvling gear can handle tanking several mobs without dying while holy'ing away carelessly.

IMO just another hint that healers shouldnt shy away from dishing in some dps in dungeons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Counterpoint: Assuming healer dps is a vital part of their toolkit, they would have internal mechanics that encourage the player to do it, either by having it feed back directly into their healing or other internal resources. Every other job has their vital aspect covered with internal mechanics which is another reason why tanks are encouraged to dps, and of course dps players have mechanics that revolve around dealing damage, the core aspect of their kit. Considering that, trying to argue healer dps is "vital" is extremely reaching and feels like grasping at straws, when it would be better described as "nice".

Edit: Lovely limits.



I'll concede SCH Aetherflow/energy drain, but neither Holy or Assize are mechanics, like BotD, Enochian, or Wrath/Abandon, all of which revolve around both dealing damage and wrap back around to support the rest of the job's kit. Holy and Assize would be more akin to a BLM dropping Apoc on a weakened player or a MCH using Rend Mind: Nice to have, but is a utility that doesn't actually feed back into their kit.

---

For ease of transition. Tank mitigation is no different than healer DPS. I'll press Shadowwall/Vengeance when I see a tank buster coming or pull half the room and forget about it. Both roles have reduced complexity regarding damage because they play duo roles and have to split their focus. DPS have dedicated and fairly complex rotations because their only focus is damage. Are you honestly positing the devs intended healers to have as low as 20% activity? If so, it's incredibly poor game design when I'll spend more time cycling through my emotes than I will contributing to the dungeon clear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Counterpoint: Assuming healer dps is a vital part of their toolkit, they would have internal mechanics that encourage the player to do it, either by having it feed back directly into their healing or other internal resources. Every other job has their vital aspect covered with internal mechanics which is another reason why tanks are encouraged to dps, and of course dps players have mechanics that revolve around dealing damage, the core aspect of their kit. Considering that, trying to argue healer dps is "vital" is extremely reaching and feels like grasping at straws, when it would be better described as "nice".

---

You don't have a complex DPS "rotation" as a healer because you should be going back and forth between healing skills and damage skills. In short terms, you have way less GCDs allowed per time frame dedicated to DPSing. The "mechanic" is the switching itself. There's no need to add another layer of complexity since you can only throw 4-5 GCDs before having to get back healing anyway. In normal circumstances, that is.

Besides, your role already revolves around figuring when are these time windows where you can DPS, and when you should be healing (and what healing skill you should use).

Really, healers don't need more complex mechanisms linked to their DPS skills. It's not because the skills themselves are quite "vanilla" that it means that the job isn't already complex enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taika

You mean like Assize or Energy Drain? Or Holy that works as damage mitigation? :P

I'm describing them as "vital" because the DPS abilities are very powerful and have a huge role in how the healer jobs are played in the game.

---

If you say healers, do you also have an example for AST (except Gravity spam that eat away the MP)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

If you say healers, do you also have an example for AST (except Gravity spam that eat away the MP)?

---

Gravity. AST get Luminiferous Aether and the Ewer, it's okay to chunk your mana. You don't get to ask for examples while simultaneously exempting viable examples lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

If you say healers, do you also have an example for AST (except Gravity spam that eat away the MP)?

---

I was saying I don't see the point as relevant to the discussion. As I wrote, I'm describing them as "vital" because the DPS abilities are very powerful and have a huge role in how the healer jobs are played in the game, not because they have some types of secondary functions. I was just joking that (some) healers actually do have DPS abilities that fill those requirements. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taika

People who are talking about kicking healers are talking about healers who are literally idle, jumping or /dancing or /follow on tank. Healers like this:

http://i.imgur.com/t2h4Cav.png


It's hard to say anything about which jobs people play based on their forum accounts, but I can say I've been a healer main in this game in 1.0.


This has been said a billion times, but no one is asking healers to DPS to cover for DDs. People are asking healers to DPS because otherwise (apart from specific situations, of course) healers are being much less active than their party members, and that's not fair.

---

Nonsense, that is EXACTLY what the OP was demanding. For every entitled brat that makes their class look incompetent, there are a hundred other players who just shrug this off.

No player has any right to make any demand of any other player in the game. Period. This is a game they are paying for, not a career. If some of you are unwilling to recognize that nobody owes you anything in a PUG, then THAT is not fair to everyone.

If you want to teach every healer how to DPS, be by guest, but please stop pretending that every WHM is derpy-the-healer.

I've played this game since V1.0 beta thank you very much. What V1.0 was designed for, was turn-based mechanics where you are glued to the floor for the entire fight. Hence the term "stance" being used in Cleric Stance.

If you want to nitpick further, WHM use to be an even more powerful healer in V1.0
http://i.imgur.com/3GiEKXS.png
http://i.imgur.com/TTq4VAY.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

No player has any right to make any demand of any other player in the game. Period. This is a game they are paying for, not a career. If some of you are unwilling to recognize that nobody owes you anything in a PUG, because THAT is not fair.

---

Actually every player has the right to demand stuff from their team, it just doesn't mean that their team doesn't have the right to ignore said demands. But your concept works both ways, your PUG owes non-dps healers NOTHING too, and therefore are within their right to kick them. So why do we see these threads?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Nonsense, that is EXACTLY what the OP was demanding.

---

Did we read the same OP?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi

Instead of being condescending or immediately kicking healers for not dpsing please try to inform and educate them first. If you see a healer not dpsing maybe politely ask if they know how and are aware of the changes made to healer dps. If they respond with anything along the lines of "I don't dps because I'm a healer lulz." go ahead and kick. But if they are unsure of themselves and still learning please make sure to establish that this isn't the case and offer help before burning them at the stake.

---

The OP is all about not immediately kicking healers who don't DPS, but giving them a chance...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

I've played this game since V1.0 beta thank you very much.
[...]
If you want to nitpick further, WHM use to be an even more powerful healer in V1.0

---

Yeah me too. And I DPS'd as a WHM in Garuda Hard (normal, non-burn strat), Ifrit Hard, Moogle (we actually did the WHM Holy burn strategy once for fun), the "raid" dungeons as well as Nael Hard. :) But thanks for explaining to me how the job worked back then!

I can't believe this discussion is still going on....
If raiding, having difficulty clearing the content, or if the healer is just standing there with nothing to do, then yes DPS, but I fail to see why anyone is kicking healers for not doing damage on roulettes when it will save maybe 5-10 minutes. People apply raiding principles to casual content in this community far too frequently and its very annoying. If you don't like casual players not following the meta, don't run casual content, or do it with your like minded friends.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ayer2015

If you don't like casual players not following the meta, don't run casual content

---

It's not about not liking casual players or players not following meta, it's about not liking party members who are inactive for 80% of the time and just stand there watching their team members do almost all the work. And the fact that this is only considered acceptable (by some) for healers, and those same players would not keep a tank or DD like that in their party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

No player has any right to make any demand of any other player in the game. Period. This is a game they are paying for, not a career. If some of you are unwilling to recognize that nobody owes you anything in a PUG, then THAT is not fair to everyone.

---

http://i.imgur.com/DDoM8PI.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ayer2015

If you don't like casual players not following the meta, don't run casual content, or do it with your like minded friends.

---

Again, this logic applies both ways. If you don't like how others expect you to play in casual content, don't be surprised if you get the boot, or do it with your like minded friends.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsumdere

http://i.imgur.com/DDoM8PI.png

---

except theres no rule set by SE on how to play this game , but some meta set up from someone whos thinking that the only way to play the game is his way :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ayer2015

I can't believe this discussion is still going on....

---

That's because there are still people, like you, who still don't get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taika

It's not about not liking casual players or players not following meta, it's about not liking party members who are inactive for 80% of the time and just stand there watching their team members do almost all the work. And the fact that this is only considered acceptable (by some) for healers, and those same players would not keep a tank or DD like that in their party.

---

This.

Everyone who calls out heal only healers applies that same standard to tanks and DPS. No one is ganging up healers. A Bard who refuses to sing when the healer needs MP is a bad Bard. A Black Mage who uses their level 50 rotation in level 60 content because "it's easier" is a bad Black Mage. Likewise, no one will call out a White Mage who does 500 DPS when you call pull a 1,000. It's exclusively the players (note: not job specific) who do the barest of minimums to get by who people take umbrage with. In regards to healers, this means literally standing still, not casting a single ability beyond Cure whenever the tank takes even the slightest damage. To offer an example, back when Hullbreaker was relevant, I queued on Dragoon and had a Warrior who never once dropped below 30k. He mitigated extremely well, used Bloodbath and Equilibrium on pulls for large self heals. The healer we got had so much downtime, he literally hopped around the map and even /wave to us during the first boss fight.

That is the healer people don't like. Not only wasn't he new, but had multiple jobs-- including other healers-- at 60. So, I'll ask. Is this a good healer; someone who spent more time jumping around the map and occasionally using emotes than he did healing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khemorex

except theres no rule set by SE on how to play this game , but some meta set up from someone whos thinking that the only way to play the game is his way :P

---

Meta is literally about how the jobs are played most effectively, and it's not based on nothing but how the developers have designed the game. Furthermore, the developers have full power to change the meta by adjusting the design, so when they're not doing that, they're in fact supporting the meta (and in fact, they've been enforcing the healer DPS meta along the way).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khemorex

except theres no rule set by SE on how to play this game , but some meta set up from someone whos thinking that the only way to play the game is his way :P

---

Welcome to online gaming, where the community sets self imposed standards with the tools and limitations offered from the Devs. When Devs give you High DPS capabilities and low monster damage output, the community responds by DPSing.

It's not "someone" who made the meta, it's the community itself.

Of course like I said, you're always welcome to go against the grain per se, but the community is technically allowed to impose their meta on you in the form of vote kicking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsumdere

(poorly drawn troll post)

---

If you've been a regular reader of the forums since V1.0 you'd know that this "Players make unreasonable demands of other players" all the time.

The argument is always a combination of:

a) Shut up it's my game, I paid for it, and I will troll you cause that's what I feel is worth 15$/mo.

b) Do what I say, or my boot gets shoved up your butt so fast.

c) Stop doing that, you are ruining my game

No "Let's work together to make this dungeon instance faster", no "could you not do X, it's making this harder than it needs to be"

For every "hurr hurr, WHM must DPS or kick" there is also a "stop spamming medica II" (where the healer casts medica II then promptly goes back to DPS'ing, and casts nothing else)

Nobody seems to care if the player is trying their best. It's easier to ask a player to stop doing something counter-productive, than it is to make them change their play style just for you. If you have a party where the healer thinks they are hot-**** and spending all their mana on DPS while the DPS are taking dirt naps, that is the impression "WHM must DPS" looks like to players who are playing WHM to be a healer, not a third DPS.

My play style with the WHM is to conserve mana, because the chances of getting a PUG of passable tank and two ranged DPS is rare. Most of the time one DPS is under geared, or ignores the mechanics, or a tank thinks they are also hot-**** and constantly taking 80% damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

If you've been a regular reader of the forums since V1.0 you'd know that this "Players make unreasonable demands of other players" all the time.

---

Are you implying tossing a few DPS spells in bouts of downtime is unreasonable?

There's the issue guys. Can't win against a brick wall like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

That is the healer people don't like. Not only wasn't he new, but had multiple jobs-- including other healers-- at 60. So, I'll ask. Is this a good healer; someone who spent more time jumping around the map and occasionally using emotes than he did healing?

---

People responding in this thread and the countless other times this topic has been dredged up in other forums, act like this is the norm. It is not. It's the equivalent of the *chan/reddit troll who encourages someone to kill themselves and is then surprised when someone actually does, and the entire community gets blamed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

It is not. It's the equivalent of the *chan/reddit troll who encourages someone to kill themselves and is then surprised when someone actually does, and the entire community gets blamed.

---

You need to step back and get some real perspective on this. Getting booted from a group for not DPS'ing is NOT equivalent to goading suicide and then following through. You need to stop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taika

Meta is literally about how the jobs are played most effectively, and it's not based on nothing but how the developers have designed the game. Furthermore, the developers have full power to change the meta by adjusting the design, so when they're not doing that, they're in fact supporting the meta (and in fact, they've been enforcing the healer DPS meta along the way).

---

yes in savage mode ^^
edit : and only because people wanted first world kill instead of waiting to gear up the normal way ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

The argument is always a combination of:

a) Shut up it's my game, I paid for it, and I will troll you cause that's what I feel is worth 15$/mo.

b) Do what I say, or my boot gets shoved up your butt so fast.

c) Stop doing that, you are ruining my game

No "Let's work together to make this dungeon instance faster", no "could you not do X, it's making this harder than it needs to be"

[...]

Nobody seems to care if the player is trying their best.

---

It seems you're reading these forums very selectively. I just posted this in another thread on the same topic, but it fits well here as well:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aquaslash

As for the rest of these posts, the point is that people want to see EFFORT. Nobody's expecting big dicl numbers, especially out of DF of all things. However, you're generally supposed to ASK for a sherpa instead of being lazy and trying to get a free carry.

There's also a thing called context. If you're brand new to an instance, nobody's gonna be mad at you for trying to feel it out. Even if you end up the worst at your role, most will forgive if it looks like you tried. I think that's all anyone's asking

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tharne

That's the only thing reasonable people are asking, if during an entire fight you need to heal then no problem you don't have the time to do damage but if you only need to heal during 50% of the fight you should do something (not nothing) during the other 50%.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dlgc

We are not expecting you to contribute the most damage output, nor ask you to abandon your primary role. When there is a wide time-frame in which no healing is needed, instead of reading about Toenail Fungus, or watching the latest episode of Log Horizon, or etc., why not throw in a few skills. . . at least some dots to help things along?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

General rule of thumb: you don't have to be a pro MLG high DPS healer for people to be happy with your performance, so long as you have some awareness of when your party is taking damage and when you have downtime. You should learn your toolkit and find the skills which give you downtime (regen, aspects benefic, rouse), and at least weave in some sort of DPS just so you aren't idling, because it's the idling that people notice, not your damage numbers

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KDSilver

When we are talking about dps on healer, we're not expecting everyone to do 1000 dps.
If every healer just use dots, the very least, it would be enough to stop yelling at those who "don't want to dps because blabla".

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Purrsnikitty

What people are asking for:

- Heal when healing is necessary. If your party is taking too much damage it is okay to not DPS.
- If you find yourself standing around, throw some dots on, cast a few damage skills.
- Use your time wisely. If you aren't comfortable with the dungeon no one is going to get on you, but if you can contribute please do.

---

What is being asked for is, in fact, making an effort and trying.

No one is saying all healers are bad... so your comparison is completely inaccurate. If you aren't one of the healers that stands around picking his/her butt then STOP BEING OFFENDED since it is not being directed at you.