Well they're already "wasting"/have "wasted" the resources to create the feature. Your move now Yoshida. Remove marriage and put all that to waste or remove the gender restriction on marriage and keep the feature that your team spent time working on.Quote:
Originally Posted by strallaalaa
Marriage feedback [inofficial Poll]
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11-13-2012, 06:28 AMArcell
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11-13-2012, 06:29 AMColvinI'm pretty sure that it wouldn't make the thread go away.. maybe change to a new thread called "Why I am leaving FFXIV"... then add like 100 more. The flames! OOOOoooh the flames!Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcell
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11-13-2012, 06:29 AMArcellIt would make THIS thread go away. Nothing has been said in this thread to support your claims. I don't think anyone has stated they would quit in either case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colvin
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11-13-2012, 06:30 AMLemmingKingXXXit may be a bit buried in the land of few periods, but I did address thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME
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11-13-2012, 06:32 AMWynnSo basically what you're saying is that you do care. You just don't want to admit it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Huginn
I also don't believe you have ever truly known a gay person in your life or much about gay people in general. There are deeply spiritual and faithful people in the LGBT community. Christians. Catholics. Jews. Muslims. Every single world religion that exists. There are also conservative people in the LGBT community. Ever heard of Log Cabin Republicans? We are cut from many creeds. You'd know that if you had any kind of real world experience with gay people. Stop trying to generalize as if you are some gay person authority. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
Guess what, what it boils down to is I don't give one crap about your religion, political affiliation, or your beliefs. You can take your supposed "education" and shove it right up your you know what. You have absolutely no right to force your opinions down my or anyone else's throat. You believe something about homosexuality, that's great. You live by it. But you don't have the right to make others do the same. By the way, that is the very principle libertarians live by so if you really are one as you say, you should learn what they actually believe:
"We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose."
"Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the government's treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption, immigration or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, license or restrict personal relationships. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships." - The Libertarian Platform.
Source - http://www.lp.org/platform
Also, please stop trying to make it seem like somehow you are a victim and the LGBT community is a giant victimizer just playing victim. Half the things you are arguing right now, I never even said to you. You talk like a crazy person who is just regergitating rheteric from some internet pamphlet they read 100 times so they could justify their hatred in an argument. -
11-13-2012, 06:36 AMLoggosBut the problem of this is that those are one-sided activities that harm a person not involved in those likings of activity. Those things are not mutual, therefore they are forced and do a whole lot of harm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
In our society we generally punish something when we consider it harmful, not when it is against nature by default.
Two people loving each other and have sexual activity with mutual agreement are not harming others with their choice of life (unless they show what is classified as indecent behaviour by law).
Anything from dying one's hair, being tattooed or pierced up to gender change is also against nature but it is personal and causes no direct harm to another person. -
11-13-2012, 06:41 AMZantetsukenPeeping Toms don't affect anyone unless the victim (or friends of the victim) discover it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggos
Perhaps planting hidden cameras in changing/locker/bathrooms should be sanctioned by law as long as the voyeur doesn't distribute the material?
It's quite harmless after all... -
11-13-2012, 06:50 AMKallivisA crime that invades someone's privacy and dignity is a bit far-fetched from the main point and I'd ask you to be a bit more mature in your presentation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
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11-13-2012, 06:52 AMReika
I still dont see how people are still relating anything done in a video game to real life. You dont even know what gender person is playing what gender character. If they wont put a control on what gender you play, they surely shouldnt put any controls on what gender you would marry to.
If they just add opposite sex marriage, it could be these combos.
Fem playing F marries M playing M
Fem playing M marries M playing F
Fem playing F marries F playing M
Male playing F marries M playing M
add same sex marriage, it could be these combos.
F playing F marries F playing F
M playing M marries M playing M
F playing M marries F playing M
M playing F marries M playing F
So, what does it matter. Opposite-only WONT stop two people of the same gender from marrying inside of a game. It's only an uneeded limitation, forcing someone to change their IN-GAME gender to utilize the marriage system. They dont even have to be gay. They might just be friends, they might be married, they might be 500+ miles apart. In any case, one person marrying another will not effect anyone else other than those two. -
11-13-2012, 06:53 AMWynnThat is a ridiculous argument. You are comparing an act of violation on a person without their knowledge or consent with two consenting adults entering into a marriage who happen to be the same gender. It is so beyond comparision that it is actually laughable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
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11-13-2012, 06:54 AMZantetsukenHow can privacy and dignity be diminished as long as a person who never becomes aware nor is ever affected by it? (of course, if he is caught by the subject of his peeping, it's a different story, but I'll bet a vast majority of peeping tom 'victims' never find out.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallivis
So why should we persecute a harmless voyeur (who certainly never chose to have that particular sexual drive)? -
11-13-2012, 06:55 AMColvinThere have been plenty of people who say they dont want it. If you think all the people who would be anti-gay marriage are posting in this thread, you would be wrong. There would be plenty of people who would go on about it. That isn't to say I would care. I'm not sure I would want to see a couple of dudes making out in Ul'Dah but at least with same-sex marriage I could just not got. Point is they should do whatever MOST people want. loose the smaller population either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcell
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11-13-2012, 06:56 AMKallivisThis argument as someone already said is completely ridiculous and has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. Get back on topic or at the very least provide an argument to the person you were replying to that actually holds some water.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
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11-13-2012, 06:57 AMShinigamiKaylamost people want gay marriage so lets lose the haters? seriously... why do people hate others being happy... I don't get it... it grosses you out so what don't be around it why can't people be happy is it a sin to god to make someone smile? I just don't understand...Quote:
Originally Posted by Colvin
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11-13-2012, 06:57 AMColvinDepends on your opinion of mutual. Most psychologists say anyone under the age of 17 can't completely understand the sexual experience from an emotional standpoint. Something I vehemontly disagree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggos
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11-13-2012, 06:58 AMKallivisI have a feeling that if same-sex marriage is not allowed, same-sex couples will be fairly more vocal about it as a few people have already mentioned throughout the thread, along with those who aren't gay but are indignant when it comes to equality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colvin
Implementing it is basically less harm done. -
11-13-2012, 07:00 AMColvinagain... I just said they should do whatever most people want... if that is to add same-sex marriage then fine. However, I don't think that this thread is really a concise way to decide what most people want. It just means that there were more people willing to go in to this thread that do support it. We won't know unless they do a public and well-publicised pole which includes all countries and languages involved. Anything beyond that is just speculation.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinigamiKayla
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11-13-2012, 07:01 AMReikaWhat its about is equality. It's as if people didn't learn from equal rights movements in the past.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallivis
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11-13-2012, 07:01 AMColvinQuote:
Originally Posted by Kallivis
As a business owner, I'm simply stating that it is a hot enough topic that they should have a multinational poll to make the decision and not just "do whatever seems easier" or "what this thread says". -
11-13-2012, 07:03 AMKallivisConsidering the majority of my posts on this account thus far have been in this thread and I've been pressuring equality in virtually every single post I would imagine you would of taken note of that by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reika
I'm just making an extra point that if they don't implement it, the people who are "disgusted" by it are going to be being hit with far more displays of it throughout the game. -
11-13-2012, 07:06 AMEnkiOro
It would be kind of funny if, in some way, they only added same-sex marriage. The fits that people would throw, lol. Oooh, what I would pay to see the forums on that day.
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11-13-2012, 07:06 AMZantetsukenThe last several pages of this thread have been filled with pontifications over not restricting sexual activity long as nobody is harmed. There is a serious flaw in that logic and used the following to my point:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallivis
A peeping tom (who is not caught by the victim, and does not distribute any materials relating to it) is someone who is engaging in their sexual preference without harming anyone.
On what standing do we have to make it illegal?
If you can't answer that question, then the "as long as they're not hurting anyone argument" is null and void. -
11-13-2012, 07:06 AMZyph
You know what's funny? People are saying "Oh they'll be affected by displays of the gay marriage"
Except that the only thing people will see will be wedding rings when checked. Just like everyone else who's married. It's not like a stream of hearts are going to be connecting two players every time they're within a malm of each other. -
11-13-2012, 07:07 AMColvinIt isn't a problem of equality. Making a cloud statement like everyone should have equality doesnt take in to account the fact that at SOME POINT there needs to be a limit. There are people who love their animals enough to want to marry them and have sex with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reika
People follow this up by saying "of course that is wrong... the animal doesnt know better". Who gets to make these decisions about the limits to what is right and wrong?
Society at large does and it evolves by the day. Right now there is a more vocal group on about the inclusion and acception of same-sexual relations. In 50-100 years it could be more acceptable to be gay or LESS acceptable... who knows? maybe we will all keep sheep in a closet for our "needs".
All you can do as a business is see what the majority want RIGHT NOW and go with that. -
11-13-2012, 07:08 AMReikaSo what youre saying is, gay people are animals. At least, I hope you aren't trying to relate 2 same sex people getting married to a person marrying an animal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colvin
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11-13-2012, 07:09 AMLoggosQuote:
Originally Posted by Colvin
The sexual understanding within teenage period is indeed quite difficult. There are surely some that are mature enough but I think there are also people who would probably let themselves being exploited. It's very indiviudal. On the other hand law just needs to have a time limit to measure it even if it does not apply to all individuals to have a ground for justice at all. And since with 18 the right of self-determination becomes valid for an individual no one can possibly hinder a person to do what they want to do in this matter. I agree that this is problematic from both the individuals' and the politic point of view.
@ Zantetsuken
Well but you said it yourself. IF I was about to find out about it then I would feel VERY harmed. Only because I don't know about something it isn't more mutual from my side.
Let me set up my definition for mutual then:
To me mutual means when two person agree on something/have the same feeling on something or would have so if both knew about it.
Let's have another example: Say you have serious documents like your banking account datas/ money transfer data etc. It has a reason why those are private. I wouldn't like to have anyone spy on my bank account (without robbing it - just observing). There are just some issues that are part of an individual privacy and to hurt this privacy is not correct, even if the person doesn't know of it. -
11-13-2012, 07:10 AMKalleraViolation of privacy laws. which have nothing to do with marriage equality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
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11-13-2012, 07:11 AMZantetsuken
I actually think that same-sex Marriage and opposite-sex marriage ARE equal in an MMO.
Nobody can procreate in a video game after-all (or even have sex for that matter). :p -
11-13-2012, 07:14 AMWynnAs if people don't see tons of manqo'te flirting with each other on a daily basis in this game already. I mean, the reality is that people who hate homosexuality are faced with it every single day everywhere they turn in today's world. It's no longer considered a disease. It is a normal part of life that no longer has to be hidden. Just because they didn't get the memo, doesn't make it not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallivis
It's on TV, it's on the radio, it's in books, it's in newspapers, it's their neighbors, it's their neice or nephew, it's their kid. They have managed to stick their heads in the sand for all of this. It won't kill them to keep on keepin on in XIV either.
And to be quite frank, in this day and age it should not be acceptible to deny equality to a group of people because another group doesn't want them to have it. -
11-13-2012, 07:15 AMZantetsukenSo, if a man disguises himself as a woman and hangs out in a woman's locker room, he is guilty of violating the privacy of those women?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallera
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11-13-2012, 07:21 AMZyphNow you're about to open up the "transgendered people and concept of 'passability' in the context of public restrooms" can of worms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
There's a place for that debate but it's not here. -
11-13-2012, 07:22 AMTiberious
I demand that I be allowed to marry a chocobo. What? I love chocobos.
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11-13-2012, 07:23 AMKalleraSexual harassment laws have nothing to do with marriage equality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
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11-13-2012, 07:23 AMZantetsukenI have no plan to bring up Transgendered people in this particular argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyph
I'm specifically talking about a straight voyeur who is able to view women in a locker room without them realizing it - thus they are not harassed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallera
I'll ask again:
If a man disguises himself as a woman and hangs out in a woman's locker room - unbeknownst to them - what is he guilty of?
http://images4.fanpop.com/image/phot...?1352759482948 -
11-13-2012, 07:23 AMWynnOnly if the chocobo can say "I do" when asked if they agree to your marriage, otherwise no deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberious
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11-13-2012, 07:24 AMColvinIt really isn't my point but in order for my point to be MADE I had to compare people's opinions so yes I mentioned the two in the same sentence... thanks for pointing that out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reika
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11-13-2012, 07:28 AMTiberiousDamn, I guess I'll shoot for a parrot then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynn
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11-13-2012, 07:29 AMKalleraYou are moving the goalposts. They are committing a crime of sexual harassment, even if they are Solid Snake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
Unless you have a point to this, stop. This has nothing to do with marriage equality or even this game, where there are no restrooms or a necessity to go to them. -
11-13-2012, 07:32 AMHuginnPlease try to refrain from making personal attacks. I do not believe you have understood what i was saying at all. I do not care what you do so long as it does not affect anyone else's rights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynn
You may not believe that i have ever met a homosexual, and that is fine for you to fall back on. yes, i do know of the log cabin republicans, as well as many other organizations. My godfather created the first AIDS ministry for men in our diocese (i understand that this has no bearing on myself, i did not do it) because he (as did I) saw them as men and God's children, not just as some abomination.
I have been met with fear and anger over daring to accompany a friend to a gay bar, not by people outside, but by some of the people inside. I was greeted by people whom i knew publicly with "huginn, i never knew!", and when i responded with "I'm not", i was presented with a person who was angry and bitter, possibly due to the fear that because i was not a homosexual, that i was there solely to gather information about gays to out them publicly. not everyone had this problem, just as not every GLAAD member i have met claimed that asexuals were just closet homosexuals who refused to come out.
You seem to be claiming that i am trying to shove some kind of anti same sex marriage dogma down everyone's throats, but what i am trying to convey is that i feel that many are trying to shove their opinions down everyone else's throats. I attempt to point out the hatred and absurdity that is being levied against anyone who either does not care or does not want to see same sex marriage implemented at this time (along with any kind of marriage implementation at this time).
I personally do not care if marriage of any kind is introduced to X|V. I do care about people telling others to go to hell and trying to demean them with taunts such as "we are the majority now".
The only victimization i possibly feel is that i have lost a good friend to his choice to be popular with his new group identity, rather than keep his values. This is because of the area where we live and the vocal groups that inhabit it.
Also, i do not particularly remember posting "lololol" in this thread, but i can not rule it out.
Finally, i would like to remind everyone to please refrain from personal attacks, it does nothing but make you look like a fool and gets me banned for a week when responding to them... or denegrating the band "nicleback" -
11-13-2012, 07:33 AMTiberiousIt is a crime. But the point he's making is, I believe, "Why is it a crime?" If your filming them because your sexual desires cause the urges to do so, but it doesn't affect anyone, and they don't know, and you're not distributing it, or selling it, then why is it illegal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallera