So, how is Pagos?

The high level chain bonus is still bugged to hell and randomly won't give you credit on kills

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Slightly increasing chain times would help some (so people can type), but lowering HP hurts the grind. Some people want to grind. There is a great deal of old school mmo nostalgia that goes with it. It goes back to a time where you only join a group, when you know you have a least an hour to play. 2 hours was the average. They don't comment on the forums, because they don't want to deal with the hate they could receive. It's an echo chamber in here. The last thing Pagos needs is a nerf.

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You still need 31 crystals to finish a single weapon. Shaving some health off mobs wouldn't make people finish their relics in 10 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

If they did that, it would destroy the whole point. You are supposed to grind not power level. It would make the people that like Pagos not like it. Relics are meant to be a grind. The early relic steps in Anemos were laughably quick, once your character had elemental level 20.

Slightly increasing chain times would help some (so people can type), but lowering HP hurts the grind. Some people want to grind. There is a great deal of old school mmo nostalgia that goes with it. It goes back to a time where you only join a group, when you know you have a least an hour to play. 2 hours was the average. They don't comment on the forums, because they don't want to deal with the hate they could receive. It's an echo chamber in here. The last thing Pagos needs is a nerf.

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Having flaws in older games is not an excuse to bring them back in the name of nostalgia. Yesterday I was trying to finish my log but I couldn't because I could not find a group with my level. Making a game unplayable in the game of nostalgia is not a wise business model. Also note it worked better in the past because it had a way higher population at any given point. The idea is not practical for FFXIV and it simply does not work. Even ffxi later came out with level sync to combat that flaw, something people where asking for in the first Eureka, but for some reason ignored the player base despite it being heavily asked for. SE needs to be stop being out of touch with its user base.

While the location and atmosphere are cool, I freaking hate it. I managed to slog through Anemos, hoping that it would change, but it legit hasn't. It's the same old slog, and for whatever reason SE had to wait 8 months after releasing Anemos to release this? The best part of Anemos was the social factor, but I dont attribute that to the devs at all. That was the players making the best of a boring grind-fest. And now we have the exact same thing except with a challenge log this time. Great. I'm gonna go beat my head against a wall now. If the relics weren't tied behind this content, I highly doubt that anyone would be doing it.

Every time I go into Pagos, the # of people in the instance is <100. I'm getting the same reports from others. I'm sure there's folks that like it but unless they do speak up, and unless I see some evidence otherwise, I'm going to continue to believe that they're in the minority. XIV's whole premise was that it was ultra-accessible to casuals. Like it or not, they've espoused this from the beginning. This is supposed to be content for the general playerbase (an alternative to savage and extreme); if the majority of the general playerbase doesn't like it, it's not a success.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Having flaws in older games is not an excuse to bring them back in the name of nostalgia. Yesterday I was trying to finish my log but I couldn't because I could not find a group with my level. Making a game unplayable in the game of nostalgia is not a wise business model. Also note it worked better in the past because it had a way higher population at any given point. The idea is not practical for FFXIV and it simply does not work. Even ffxi later came out with level sync to combat that flaw, something people where asking for in the first Eureka, but for some reason ignored the player base despite it being heavily asked for. SE needs to be stop being out of touch with its user base.

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And let's not forget that you had the entire pool of players to build parties with, and multiple jobs at different given levels which extended the possibilities a great bit.

We have a pool of 144 people and the instances make absolutely no effort to distribute players by level or in any meaningful way. 144 sounds like a lot, but when every player has exactly one elemental level (as opposed to XI and even outside Eureka where every job is leveled individually), you get one shot to be within level range of any other given person before either they outlevel you or you outlevel them.

SE just doesn't think ahead which is baffling, considering they had 15 years of this to learn from.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

And let's not forget that you had the entire pool of players to build parties with, and multiple jobs at different given levels which extended the possibilities a great bit.

We have a pool of 144 people and the instances make absolutely no effort to distribute players by level or in any meaningful way. 144 sounds like a lot, but when every player has exactly one elemental level (as opposed to XI and even outside Eureka where every job is leveled individually), you get one shot to be within level range of any other given person before either they outlevel you or you outlevel them.

SE just doesn't think ahead which is baffling, considering they had 15 years of this to learn from.

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That is what I was talking about when I said "Also note it worked better in the past because it had a way higher population at any given point."

i maybe told that , but ! its so bad place and bad instance ! who could invest their time to make this thing ? im just done with that farming xp from mobs, which you need kill so many ! there is no invence and i doubt in japanese , how they were creative after i saw this thing , its just really avoidable for many players, do you want that SE? its just from one extreme do another extreme, how i now love Anemos :)

I've never played FFXI. FFXI isn't old school. Neither is WoW. There is more free will in Pagos vs a linear dungeon. The difficulty relies on the ability to keep up the pace. I would never knock on someone for preferring the dungeons of today's mmos. I only find a few like Aurum Vale to be even remotely interesting, but I don't think they should be removed or become grindy like the relic quests should be.

Calling grinding a flaw for a relic step is silly. Grinding is not a flaw, but a feature. Relic always required some sort of grind, even in this type of mmo. Keeping up chains and positioning yourself correctly is a part of the challenge. DRG shouldn't use jump, when it could aggro another close by mob. Be aware of sprites. Don't be that party that stands next to another party. That will be learned by others over time.

Rez others in need. You have time to finish your chain, and good parties can spare a healer or RDM. You could also use LB to push one mob along, while someone raises. Play with your board. Maybe your tank doesn't need everything in defense to make up for those situations. Unless, they were harassing your group or another group, you rez them. That is how community forms. In Anemos, people would bring the 'danger noodles' to lowbies actually trying to help spawn a nm, so they would die. They would also drag a bunch of mobs to a nm on purpose. When lowbies spawned a nm on their side of the map, people got bitter over it. That's not good for community. That doesn't happen as much now, because the environment is more dangerous for everyone and the train is broken.

Even Raid groups have to clear their raids multiple times to get the gear they want, and that's with a lock out. So either do that, do this, or just run Lighthouse for a 370 weapon and then wait until next patch. You have options. Different options are available for different types of players.

Getting SE to destroy content for certain players, just so other people can have easy upgrades is a bad business move. SE wants as many types of players possible. People complained about Anemos up until the day Pagos was released. Now most people on the forums hate Pagos but like Anemos. It reminds me of the people that complain about the Disney Star Wars movies, comparing them to the much more beloved prequel trilogy. When the prequel trilogy came out, people hated it. They said it was not as good as the original movies. People also had complaints about Return of the Jedi, when it came out. Don't hate on something, because you aren't used to it. Learn what it is about, first.

The relic isn't and should never be geared towards "a specific set of people". The relic has always been for the general population. I have no problems with there being a grindfest for people who enjoy grindfests, just as I have no problem with there being Ultimate for the harder-than-extreme players, PVP for those that enjoy it (whether or not XIV's PVP is effective is beside the point), glamour options, crafting, gardening, chocobo races, housing, and all of the other elements that are enjoyed more by one group than another. However, the primary "goal" of FFXIV is to progress in PVE. To get the best weapon, you have to either do savage/EX trials, or the relic. This is a "general population" element, and the "general population" does not like Pagos. They've also locked several other items - crafting materials, an emote, minions, housing items, and other objects - behind this grind. Will they be on the MB at some point? Some will, some won't. For the pieces that are bound, you're screwed. For the others, you have to hope that someone will eventually sell it. And a week after Pagos was released, we haven't even had one of the Shiver emotes put up on our MB.

Had Eureka been a side release such as Ultimate, I wouldn't have cared, even if they'd put a separate set of rewards and goals in that are not the relic. I'm not even against a slog, as I'm still working on several animas and an original relic - but the nice thing about those is that I'm not having to rely on others' goodwill to do them. Nobody else in my party has to be grinding their relics for me to progress in mine. I don't want to take away your toy, I just want to not be forced to do it for mainstream content in a game that has never before embraced this kind of content, and is not the norm.

The Lighthouse upgrade is for 'the general population' that doesn't want to grind or do relic.

Lets talk about relic grinds, shall we? Aether grinding gave me the option to do different things to earn light. Sometimes I ran savage. Sometimes I farmed 24 mans for gearing alts. Most often, I just did my dailies. Books gave me the options to complete tasks in the order I wanted. Personally, I liked to knock the fates out of the way first so that I could do the kill counts little by little when I was bored. Fates could be done solo or with friends/strangers who were also working on their weapons or just willing to help out. Umbrite, crystal sands, and clusters could be bought from doing various different activities. Some were faster than others, but I could mix and match depending on my free time & how much progress I wanted to make in a night.

There are zero options here in Pagos. I'll type it again, this time in bold so hopefully my point gets through: There is no other way for me to earn this relic other than to suffer through Pagos's mindless training dummy grind. Imagine if spamming ARF was the only way to earn umbrite for the anima, that you had to hunker down and spam the dungeon over and over and over and over and over and over. Its just as stupid a concept as Pagos.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Lets talk about relic grinds, shall we? Aether grinding gave me the option to do different things to earn light. Sometimes I ran savage. Sometimes I farmed 24 mans for gearing alts. Most often, I just did my dailies. Books gave me the options to complete tasks in the order I wanted. Personally, I liked to knock the fates out of the way first so that I could do the kill counts little by little when I was bored. Fates could be done solo or with friends/strangers who were also working on their weapons or just willing to help out. Umbrite, crystal sands, and clusters could be bought from doing various different activities. Some were faster than others, but I could mix and match depending on my free time & how much progress I wanted to make in a night.

There are zero options here in Pagos. I'll type it again, this time in bold so hopefully my point gets through: There is no other way for me to earn this relic other than to suffer through Pagos's mindless training dummy grind. Imagine if spamming ARF was the only way to earn umbrite for the anima, that you had to hunker down and spam the dungeon over and over and over and over and over and over. Its just as stupid a concept as Pagos.

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Then don't do relic. Why should anyone get a relic weapon, when they are focusing on other objectives/ content? You are basically asking for free stuff, while doing other things.

Bolding is no different from all caps. Please, don't do that.

If people are dying and losing chains, it isn't mindless. Anemos became mindless. Dungeons and 24 mans are mindless. A1S during the light step was mindless.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Bolding is no different from all caps. Please, don't do that.

If people are dying and losing chains, it isn't mindless. Anemos became mindless. Dungeons and 24 mans are mindless. A1S during the light step was mindless.

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PAGOS IS MINDLESS

and a serious reply:
Your argument is that all relics are grindy so thats why pagos should be grindy. Ok, well all relics gave me options to the grind ..but you say pagos shouldn’t because options are freebies. Were the old relics all freebies then? My Zeta, my various Anima were all given to me because I didn't want to beat my head against a single thing for days on end?

Pagos is fine as is if you're going for one relic weapon. It remains to be seen how it'll look if you want more than one.

Players reached lvl 35 around two days after the content was released and I saw a few relics over the weekend, and this was done when more than 95% of the players were at a low level, meaning fewer NMs would be spawned, and when spawn conditions were not known (spawn conditions are still being worked out).

Mobs that mutate or adapt give a x2.5 bonus. The 30th kill in a chain gives a x5 bonus. The entirety of a 30 chain is equal to killing 55 mobs. In the 30's, you get around 3.5k per mob, which translates to 200k exp with no mutations, no exp potion and no fairy exp bonus taken into account. If you get a mutation on chain 30, that kill alone would give 40k. Mutations/adaptations don't revert if aggro is reset, allowing you to save one for a chain 30 kill if you get it early in the chain.

A chain of 30 in a party of eight at five levels below the mob takes 15-20 minutes and you only need decent dps for the last part of the chain. If that's too long, you can always do +4 mobs or lower. Don't want to chain mobs? You don't have to. You can afk and wait for NMs, though you won't progress anywhere near as fast as those that grind, which is how it should have been in Anemos.

Because chaining mobs is a thing again, the fairy has use, since it gives a 10% exp buff (doesn't apply to NMs) and an increase in damage dealt.

In Anemos, there was no reason to kill any mobs but those that spawned the NMs. Mutations and adaptations change that. In Anemos after the first few days, dying meant sitting there and waiting for a res. Sleeping dragons, the map layout and chaining means getting a res isn't as sure a thing.

There are complaints about it being boring, but what are the suggestions? "Buff this, nerf that"

There are complaints about the exp grind, but it's the light portion that's the real grind.

Issues with Pagos at the moment are the lack of a sync function, kills having a small chance of not registering and to a lesser extent, AoEs on snow during heatwaves being a little difficult to see.

Buffs and nerfs aren't so simple. If they implement them, it would be an insult to the players that did the content early. The content will be nerfed in the future, for sure, but in a few months, not when the content is a week old. It would set a bad precedent: Don't like the grind? Go to the forums and complain until it gets reduced.

There's a big difference between "asking for free stuff" and "asking that content not be crap." They continually delay Eureka, content they advertised as casual and possible to solo, and it's released as something entirely different. People have a right to be upset and to complain about SE's actions in this, especially when people continually tell the company their problems only to be ignored. The most we got was a half-hearted wishy-washy response in the hotfix that they may or may not do something in the coming weeks. Their response to people's continued frustration is to once again ignore the complaints, which is another reason why people are irritated.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Then don't do relic.

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Truth be told, that would honestly be the best thing people can do.

Don't do it and tell other people to resist the temptation as well unless they really like Eureka. Everyone who forces themselves to do it for the relic really just tells SE that their attempt to compensate the design of Eureka with a highly coveted carrot is working as intended. Which means there is no need for them to change anything about it.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

The entirety of a 30 chain is equal to killing 55 mobs. In the 30's, you get around 3.5k per mob, which translates to 200k exp with no mutations,

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And in your 30's you need millions of exp to level so you're doing that chain at least 10 times. That's 300 mobs for a level. Not exactly great gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

A chain of 30 in a party of eight at five levels below the mob takes 15-20 minutes

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So between 2 and 3 hours of constant, mind numbing fighting for a level. Non.Stop.Fighting.

You can hear the bones and tendons in your hands and your migraine begging you for a break.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

constant

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I don't think that word means what you think it means. 10 chains would be with zero NMs. Contrary to what the forums have been saying, they aren't that rare. It's more likely several of those chains will be interrupted by a NM, and it's still the early days. And that's only if you wanted a more efficient method. You're free to do nothing if you want.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

And in your 30's you need millions of exp to level so you're doing that chain at least 10 times. That's 300 mobs for a level. Not exactly great gameplay.

So between 2 and 3 hours of constant, mind numbing fighting for a level. Non-Stop Fighting.

You can hear the bones and tendons in your hands and your migraine begging you for a break.

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And that's only providing you even get into a party of people all with ideal level ranges, get to camp alive, and everyone stays to play for that entire time. This game isn't designed for that kind of leveling and the playerbase isn't used to it. In XI we would actually plan to be in a party for a minimum of an hour after getting to camp and would actually look for our own replacement if we had to go and the party was going to continue. It's really crazy how SE has completely forgotten how it even worked.

Or *why* it worked, for that matter. It worked in XI because the process was a lot slower and more forgiving, and camps weren't nearly as crazy dangerous to get to as they are here. No seriously, they weren't. About the hardest camp to get to was probably the camps where you went through true sight Imps, but even then they were placed carefully and with forethought so a little patience got you to your party.

NONE of that is present here. Every single mob is true sight\sound because there's no stealth spells or meds, and the pathing is so random there is absolutely no way they didn't purposely program it to hurt the exploration experience. That's not what we remember from XI. At least, it's not what *I* remember.

I remember making my way through Konschadt Highlands carefully through the goblin patrols and the occasional ram pop. I remember the bats in the tunnel in the dunes that aggroed to sound, and normally some high level was wandering around and would kill them. Or with some careful planning I could kill them myself at around 16-17 depending on job. Same thing over in Qufim Island - The Dancing Weapon was about the most dangerous thing there on your way through and it could be stealthed through but usually someone was there to help kill it. And it stayed dead for a really long stretch. There wasn't much at all dangerous in the jungles because we could hop on the chocobo there at Kazham. The camps in Garliage were all easily accessible and didn't need any stealthing - not even the bottom floor camps that were alternative to the Nest (and that was super easy to get through too). The camps in Aht Urgan were all easy to access, especially once you got all the runic portals. I think that Mt. Zhayolm was my fav place to go - I liked the crawlers up there.

I'm really stretching my memory here but I can't think of a single camp that is anywhere near the level of unforgiving with mob placement, spawns, or terrain as this new map. So like, this idea that it's some throwback to an earlier time just isn't accurate, or other people have a very different memory of how leveling and getting to camps actually was in XI.

It was a relaxing experience. It wasn't a freak out stress getting to the camp every time (first time is always exciting, but here in Pagos it's just stress EVERY time), it wasn't a freak out because other parties would try to mpk you because 6+ groups are all camped on top of each other and competing (at most we'd have 2-3 parties at a camp and very rarely did we go out of our way to hurt one another's xp), and there wasn't this expectation that you never. stop. moving. for. a. single. moment. because of a GCD. Most of all, people *stayed*. They *stayed* in the party. And if they had to go, they generally gave notice. Here? Folks just drop and you're lucky to even get a courtesy "thanks for pt".

This game wasn't designed to handle this kind of play. It's why we didn't do it in Anemos. It's why rather than even play Pagos, I logged out for the last three days and cancelled my sub. It's why this particular iteration of the content is doomed to fail.

XI was a great game. I wish we could see more of what made it great come over here. I do NOT want this dev team's interpretation of it. They don't have a clue about their own game.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

Contrary to what the forums have been saying, they aren't that rare.

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As someone who has been in numerous Pagos instances every day since it's release and having experienced 80-90 minute gaps between NM spawns in nearly all of them...

...yes, they are.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I'm really stretching my memory here but I can't think of a single camp that is anywhere near the level of unforgiving with mob placement, spawns, or terrain as this new map.

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Garlaige Citadel.

The RMT used to MPK you with Serket if you exp'ed there. Players often mpked by accident the camp at the zone if they had to flee the lower camp. It was a multilevel map with undead that would blood aggro, and you had to drop down often. FFXI wasn't all relaxing either; just trying to navigate to any camps in yuhtunga except the zone ones was a hassle, because the jungle was maze like and the maps didnt show connections.

FFXI was pretty stressful too, just saying.

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

They tweaked the HP of the bunny fate... the one fate no one wants to do. > >;;

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And SE totally missed why no one wants to do the bunny fate. Here's a hint Yoshi it has nothing to do with the HP of the fate mobs and everything to do with no XP on top of lousy rewards.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

And let's not forget that you had the entire pool of players to build parties with, and multiple jobs at different given levels which extended the possibilities a great bit.

We have a pool of 144 people and the instances make absolutely no effort to distribute players by level or in any meaningful way. 144 sounds like a lot, but when every player has exactly one elemental level (as opposed to XI and even outside Eureka where every job is leveled individually), you get one shot to be within level range of any other given person before either they outlevel you or you outlevel them.

SE just doesn't think ahead which is baffling, considering they had 15 years of this to learn from.

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Good few day. Levelled to 24 from 23 yeasterday. Hit 24 and logged for the night. Started today and hit 26 before logging. However, 27 requires over a million xp so might take me a while to get that one. As for nms I done 4 over 6 hours. 2 ash dragons. The worm and snow queen (this was the last one I done before logging tonight and got me to 26) compared to anemos that's pretty rare. Louhi spawned once afaik that entire time

This hotfix was a pretty weak response to all the complaints. Sorry Yoshi, it's going to take more than reducing the HP on the bunny fate to get me to go back in there.

This content is just gross. It feels like pure padding to stall for time until the next big patch.

I've done multiple 2.0 relics while current and same with 3.0 ones. I'm no stranger to grinds, but Pagos just isn't fun...it's frustrating. They literally cut the map in half between high and low level players. There is no way to get around the map easily as SE decided to put the first teleport shard at 20, 2nd at 21, 3rd at 30, and 4th at 32, mounts at 35. You can't even get a Pagos Fairy for the buff most of the time because they spawn in high level areas. There's no way to really play with friends if you're at different elemental levels. The bunny thing is ridiculous cause it sends you to high level areas if you do get a group to kill the fates.

You have to do the same movements nonstop...I raid and even prog isn't nearly as punishing on my hands compared to Pagos. The white background also makes my eyes and head hurt after awhile (even with blue light reduction enabled on my pc).

Also people are getting kinda toxic. There are groups who will kick a person who has to afk for a min or dc's. I've seen people also lol'ing in shout at players asking for rez's. I've been sniped at in party chat because I took a min to relay quest info to someone in shout and wasn't dpsing. Then I saw someone being told not to run down the hill to rez someone until the chain was complete. NMs, if they pop, are almost pulled right away, so good luck if you're trying to run across the map. It's not the ffxiv community I've known for the last 5 years.

Not saying that this is everyone...twelve knows I've had my levels saved by some amazing players who went out of their way me and I've done the same. I just don't like where this is going.

This content isn't pulling the community together as much as even Anemos did in it's own way. There's is just such a focus on the grinding down of mobs for exp that people are turning into rotation machines. No more banter or time to talk to your party since you might drop the chain. I don't even want to get into the kettle of light stuff...

I'm pretty sure that big, tall white mountain thing we see in the middle of the Pagos map isn't actually ice, but salt cause SE likes to troll us.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Garlaige Citadel.

The RMT used to MPK you with Serket if you exp'ed there. Players often mpked by accident the camp at the zone if they had to flee the lower camp. It was a multilevel map with undead that would blood aggro, and you had to drop down often. FFXI wasn't all relaxing either; just trying to navigate to any camps in yuhtunga except the zone ones was a hassle, because the jungle was maze like and the maps didnt show connections.

FFXI was pretty stressful too, just saying.

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There were only a handful of places to camp - either upstairs on bats\beetles in the two safe spots (Entrance and locked door) that were very far from any of the undead, or on the beetles downstairs again which were not near any undead and were certainly not near Serket. I don't know where you were xping but in the 13ish years I played that game I can count on no hands the number of times I died to either Serket while leveling or blood aggro from the wights while leveling. If you were camping near either of those places you weren't doing it right. If you were 'dropping down often' you were there for another purpose and not to level. Maybe you are remembering getting genkai items there? I recall bomb coal being in there.

As far as getting lost in the jungles - you were on a chocobo. So how stressful could it have been? No one leveled there until 20+ so by then you should have had your license. If you had the airship pass before your license you were also doing it wrong.

Maps in game didn't show connections, but like with many other things the players learned and filled in the gaps. I still have maps on my walls of how to get through places like that. So yes, it could be frustrating. Did you die and lose all your progress as a result of being a little turned around at the big downed tree versus the tunnel on the lower floor?

No. That's the difference between XI and this new garbage. This new garbage is punishing with no remorse about it. XI was just an interesting place that the devs wanted you to explore and yes, maybe get lost in.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

PAGOS IS MINDLESS

and a serious reply:
Your argument is that all relics are grindy so thats why pagos should be grindy. Ok, well all relics gave me options to the grind ..but you say pagos shouldn’t because options are freebies. Were the old relics all freebies then? My Zeta, my various Anima were all given to me because I didn't want to beat my head against a single thing for days on end?

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And this is why no one bothers talking to people on the forum... you have nothing to say and aim to push others out of speaking their minds. Yes, the former relics were freebies (to an extent), if you chose not to focus on them. SE is heading in the correct direction. Relics are not meant to be easily obtainable items.Anemos was also way too easy.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

And this is why no one bothers talking to people on the forum... you have nothing to say and aim to push others out of speaking their minds. Yes, the former relics were freebies (to an extent), if you chose not to focus on them. SE is heading in the correct direction. Relics are not meant to be easily obtainable items.Anemos was also way too easy.

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Where exactly are you getting the information that relics are not meant to be easily obtainable items? And what exactly has been 'hard' about any of them thus far?

Pagos sucks because it sucks. I am not even getting started on the relic - the content itself isn't content at all and NONE of the relics have been hard, but at least the earlier ones just had you repeating decent content ad naseum. I'll take that over this any day.

I played a bunch in anemos because believe it or not, the train brought back that feeling of hanging around with players in a party that I had in XI. Except instead of 5 others, it was half the instance. The shout chat was glorious. It wasn't the GREATEST content ever created but damn, I enjoyed it once it really started to roll.

This iteration goes out of its way to not even be remotely enjoyable. I don't care if they reduce drop rates to 1 thing per every 20 things as long as the content is reasonably fun to play.

You want a relic that took forever and was serious work? Get a time machine and go build an Apoc.

At least Dynamis was fun.

I'm level 29 and its been a week and I haven't done my challenge logs yet this week. I have a full time job before anyone asks. Content is fine and all I've been doing is grouping/chaining with friends and talking in discord about dumb things in my free time. Its been fun for me so far. Kinda glad the train is dead, got tired of afking.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

And this is why no one bothers talking to people on the forum... you have nothing to say and aim to push others out of speaking their minds. Yes, the former relics were freebies (to an extent), if you chose not to focus on them. SE is heading in the correct direction. Relics are not meant to be easily obtainable items.Anemos was also way too easy.

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The thing is you seem to have some for headcanon that relics are supposed to be hard. XIV Relics have always been for everyone, thats why they’ve always included various casual ways to earn them. Up till the final step, they're casual weapons for casuals to work though on their own time at their own pace. People who wanted them faster could no life the most efficient ways, but that has always been optional.

If you want the prestige of something exclusive and hard to earn you're free to farm UWU. Thats literally what its there for.

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Originally Posted by Soupa

I'm level 29 and its been a week and I haven't done my challenge logs yet this week. I have a full time job before anyone asks. Content is fine and all I've been doing is grouping/chaining with friends and talking in discord about dumb things in my free time. Its been fun for me so far. Kinda glad the train is dead, got tired of afking.

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Imagine if you weren't able to Discord with half or more of them because of time availability. Imagine if you were only able to party with randos whom you'd love to converse with, but the Chains didn't exactly allow for writing out messages. Your experience is not everyone else's, but if you can imagine being unable to socialize where it matters then you can, maybe, imagine how boring this system is for so many of us.

The Louhi FATE should have been "Life with Louhi." Come on, Koji!

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Originally Posted by Soupa

I'm level 29 and its been a week and I haven't done my challenge logs yet this week. I have a full time job before anyone asks. Content is fine and all I've been doing is grouping/chaining with friends and talking in discord about dumb things in my free time. Its been fun for me so far. Kinda glad the train is dead, got tired of afking.

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If you were AFK during the train, that was because you decided to be. Some players had to actually kill mobs and not just leech. One is left to wonder why you might have preferred AFKing to mindlessly grinding mobs...

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

There were only a handful of places to camp - either upstairs on bats\beetles in the two safe spots (Entrance and locked door) that were very far from any of the undead, or on the beetles downstairs again which were not near any undead and were certainly not near Serket. I don't know where you were xping but in the 13ish years I played that game I can count on no hands the number of times I died to either Serket while leveling or blood aggro from the wights while leveling. If you were camping near either of those places you weren't doing it right. If you were 'dropping down often' you were there for another purpose and not to level. Maybe you are remembering getting genkai items there? I recall bomb coal being in there.

As far as getting lost in the jungles - you were on a chocobo. So how stressful could it have been? No one leveled there until 20+ so by then you should have had your license. If you had the airship pass before your license you were also doing it wrong.

Maps in game didn't show connections, but like with many other things the players learned and filled in the gaps. I still have maps on my walls of how to get through places like that. So yes, it could be frustrating. Did you die and lose all your progress as a result of being a little turned around at the big downed tree versus the tunnel on the lower floor?

No. That's the difference between XI and this new garbage. This new garbage is punishing with no remorse about it. XI was just an interesting place that the devs wanted you to explore and yes, maybe get lost in.

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I agree, I think people comparing this to FFXI are remembering bits and pieces. Yes there was MPK and other things, but if you where aware, you had some wiggle room to avoid it, if you made your self aware. Some levels you could just teleport or escape, or chainspell them if you have a rdm with those sub jobs.

now lvl 32 more thoughts. they killed the train, chaining is actually viable now. so I guess the idea is you find other people your lvl, kill higher lvl enemies the sweet spot is 5 lvls above you and the party. there are nm's at every lvl spawned by mobs 5 lvls higher than the boss nm. it works, some issues have been that it can be hard to find a party of others your lvl. I spent over 2 hours looking for a group today at lvl 31. maybe its some lvls are awkward now idk if it will improve or get worse but its an issue I think. but yea it works.


i'm pretty sure the geothermic teleport is at lvl 30 to just cause pain for people. its kinda silly cause lvls 26-29 literally make the most use of that area, a little bit of 30 in there. honestly its like they are trolling us but whatever.


now my biggest complaint right now is that the bunny fate isn't 100% chance that you get a bunny on gold. why why why so much rng, like its enough rng to see what you'll get, its pretty sad when 50 other people get a bunny but not you. I've seen dozens of people including myself finish the fate with "wtf why didn't I get a bunny?!" lol...

Eureka took the name from III, the characters from V, the theme from Mystic Quest, and inspiration from the grind of XI.

And then did such a poor job on the content, that fans of all four games are disappointed.

It's a Carpal tunnel syndrome inducing boring long slog no one in their right mind should waste his precious life time on.
It's not even about the work or how long it takes i would gladly put even more time and work in it if it was actually fun to do and felt rewarding.

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Originally Posted by tetsuo666

It's a Carpal tunnel syndrome inducing boring long slog no one in their right mind should waste his precious life time on.
It's not even about the work or how long it takes i would gladly put even more time and work in it if it was actually fun to do and felt rewarding.

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Or "her."

Honestly, I've gone back to farming scrips for materia, because the gathering, the repetitive, manual crafting, and watching handfuls of materia blow up is so damn fun in comparison to Pagos.

Personally, I just feel so disappointed. I ended up enjoying Anemos due to the fate train - it was sociable and I spent hours in there daily, especially during my weekends. I had a feeling that things were going to change, but I was still excited for Pagos. After a long while of my boyfriend and I trying to form a party, we formed one. I could feel everyone’s souls withering away as we grinded. Everyone kept asking about the fate train too. Plus, keeping a full party is like pulling teeth! Grinding can only really be successful providing everyone stays around.

There’s so much the developers can do with Eureka but... they don’t. I just don’t think this style of grind fits FFXIV. I’ve played other grindy games but due to how they work it feels a lot more rewarding and I don’t get that bored doing it. On FF it just feels so mind numbingly boring. And now? There’s no incentives for higher levels to party up with lower levels, and due to circumstances I wasn’t able to level with the initial bunch.

I’ll go there a few more times to see if my mind changes, but I just felt so underwhelmed and downloaded another game to play.