Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

I was comparing Arf poetic farming to Msq and I was clearly talking about a level 70 player.

---

I'm not twisting what you say. I corrected your first mistake of how much poetics this roulette gives.
And pointing that your assumption that "level 70 are expected to queue in" is also a mistake, since "experienced player" is not the same as "level 70 jobs".

That's why the roulette is far from "useless". Yes, maybe you won't run it until a new job comes out, but not everythng revolves around players who have everything maxed out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

the problem that SE is trying to fix

---

Let's revisit this statement, shall we? The problem in this case is "New players are in the roulette and want to see cutscenes and enjoy the duty as it was intended".
But sadly, that's a very specific case. More often than not you'll likely find no new players in that duty, new players who don't care about cutscenes, or new alts who have seen the cutscenes dozens of times before and couldn't care less.
It doesn't even matter how well this solution solves or doesn't solve the problem SE set out to 'fix' - it actually ignores the majority of scenarios and therefore is severely lacking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

And thus SE's hidden agenda comes to light! Egads!

... I wish I could say I was only kidding, but there's a small, cynical voice in my head whispering that skip potion purchases were definitely factored into the plan.

---

Yeah I have that voice in my head too..and seeing how they somehow changed the "item for all accounts" to "single character only" for merchandise without much of hint beforehand and seeing how we just got another paid retainer but no free one..well that voice is growing louder...I mean why take the time to make those into solo duties (even though they had years) if you could just go for the easiest solution with the cutscenes and hope that people still stick around and if they dont they still can buy a potion..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

It doesn't even matter how well this solution solves or doesn't solve the problem SE set out to 'fix' - it actually ignores the majority of scenarios and therefore is severely lacking.

---

The thing is that new players that like to see cutscenes were frequently forced to follow the fast pace, now they're free to enjoy the run as they see fit. On the other hand, if you think this roulette does not worth it for you, no one is forcing you to run it, so you're free to not queue for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alleo

Yeah I have that voice in my head too..and seeing how they somehow changed the "item for all accounts" to "single character only" for merchandise without much of hint beforehand and seeing how we just got another paid retainer but no free one..well that voice is growing louder...

---

Not really tied to the "jump potion vs MSQ roulette topic", but if you want another hint at how they want us to buy things, what about the shameful ad for buying garlond's attire from Mogstation in the first cutscene of the new Omega, after asking you if you really want that outfit ? :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

The thing is that new players that like to see cutscenes were frequently forced to follow the fast pace, now they're free to enjoy the run as they see fit.

---

Criticizing this new solution which makes people not run the roulette (a direct contradiction of why it was even put up in the first place) does not mean people here think things were fine before. You can leave that sort of strawman argument at the door. The fact remains this so called solution caters to the minority of people who run those places. And no, they can't enjoy the run as they see fit, no one can, we all have to watch the scenes in their entirety whether they like it or not. The newbies who want the scenes can't even watch it at their own pace since they're auto scrolling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Criticizing this new solution which makes people not run the roulette (a direct contradiction of why it was even put up in the first place) does not mean people here think things were fine before. You can leave that sort of strawman argument at the door. The fact remains this so called solution caters to the minority of people who run those places.

---

Problem is, in a story driven game like this one, the first time you run these dungeons should be a memorable one. And it's more important to safeguard this that to keep offering this method of leveling/farming for experienced players when there are dozens of other ones. And again, if you need both Xp and poetic tomestone, it's still a very good option, even for experienced players.

Frankly, for these two, I'd even double the reward to force an item sync, preventing people from facerolling it, since it kills a lot of the tension.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Problem is, in a story driven game like this one, the first time you run these dungeons should be a memorable one.

---

You're right, which is why I ran the place unsynced with my FC buddies. But there's more than one way to solve this.
You know what would've also been epic? Running the place with the GC's elites in a solo duty. No queues to worry about, go at your own pace. This literally solves all issues and improves the experience besides.

Quote:

---

And again, if you need both Xp and poetic tomestone, it's still a very good option, even for experienced players.

---

The duty is still hardly interactive which is very offputting for a lot of people, regardless of awards. Plus it's way long and people will not have the time to add it to their daily routine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

You know what would've also been epic? Running the place with the GC's elites in a solo duty. No queues to worry about, go at your own pace. This literally solves all issues and improves the experience besides.

---

Who knows, maybe one day they'll increase the squadron size to full party and allow us to run these along with trials. But if that happens, they can simply delete the MSQ roulette.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

The duty is still hardly interactive which is very offputting for a lot of people, regardless of awards.

---

Frankly, to this day, I still think Meridianum is the best designed dungeon of the game, no being shaped like a "straight line" and having you interact with the environnement, either by using the cannons, deactivating the alarm, or avoided the tracking lights.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Let's revisit this statement, shall we? The problem in this case is "New players are in the roulette and want to see cutscenes and enjoy the duty as it was intended".
But sadly, that's a very specific case. More often than not you'll likely find no new players in that duty, new players who don't care about cutscenes, or new alts who have seen the cutscenes dozens of times before and couldn't care less.
It doesn't even matter how well this solution solves or doesn't solve the problem SE set out to 'fix' - it actually ignores the majority of scenarios and therefore is severely lacking.

---

The other two possibilities for people running that same roulette were: People who wanted another "daily" bonus and people who want to just run through the story for alts or completing it and don't care about the story.

Right?

You're talking about what happened through the old system. People would run it BECAUSE it was a decent way to grab another chunk of XP. Not because it was MSQ, that just happened to be one checkmark on a list they could tick off every day for an extra bit. There were less involved things to run constantly if you weren't going for the daily bonus. Things that were more "efficient".

The things they were actually getting complaints about were from new players basically quitting because the MSQ ending which should have been an epic experience, was toxic, rushed and a mishmash of cutscene after cutscene that made no sense. They were then plunged into the end of the game(arr) without any understandable context. You can search for yourself. There were several threads even on the forum about it.
The reason posted by the devs themselves "We'll be making adjustments to the main scenario dungeons, so that new players can enjoy them without worrying."
It doesn't matter? So the people who want to play this game and experience the story, something for which this game is KNOWN and in my opinion sets it apart from all of it's competition, don't matter?

I don't think there is any real way to fix this issue, no matter what they do other option would be to just delete the ARR and HW requirement dungeons and give them the cutscenes with added characters in there like you see your character on the magic tech mount killing the arms etc. but you not doing it yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

The things they were actually getting complaints about were from new players basically quitting because the MSQ ending which should have been an epic experience, was toxic, rushed and a mishmash of cutscene after cutscene that made no sense. They were then plunged into the end of the game(arr) without any understandable context. You can search for yourself. There were several threads even on the forum about it.

---

This is the part where I remind you you're fighting a windmill because no one thinks things were fine the way they were before. So you can stop reminding me of this. And you could also read my posts in full to see I got around that myself because I wanted to enjoy the experience. I know what that is like for first timers who care. I know. Chill.

Quote:

---

The reason posted by the devs themselves "We'll be making adjustments to the main scenario dungeons, so that new players can enjoy them without worrying."

---

And to hell with the new players who don't care, amirite? They also exist. And what about fast readers who'd like to click their own texts? What about slow readers who can't read fast enough before the texts shift over?
This solution doesn't even cover the entirety of the demographic they claim they wanted to cater for.

The problem with both you and Reynhart is that you think if anyone is displeased with this solution, then they're against finding a solution for this period and we should be happy with this new situation just because they addressed the issue to begin with. That's not how it works. And you'd also do well to notice that the majority of people are advocating for it to become a solo duty - we're throwing the roulette out the window to begin with so no one is holding onto their precious 'check entry on the daily to-do list'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

And to hell with the new players who don't care, amirite? They also exist. And what about fast readers who'd like to click their own texts? What about slow readers who can't read fast enough before the texts shift over?
This solution doesn't even cover the entirety of the demographic they claim they wanted to cater for.

---

This solution does not need to cover the majority of the demographic. Fast readers and new players who don't care can be part of the problem as much has veteran players, simply by forcing players who do care to rush through the cutscenes. For slow readers, I'm not really sure how slow you need to be to not being able to follow the pace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

And you'd also do well to notice that the majority of people are advocating for it to become a solo duty - we're throwing the roulette out the window to begin with so no one is holding onto their precious 'check entry on the daily to-do list'.

---

This is what I don't understand...for veteran players, who are basically those complaining that the MSQ roulette is wasted, what would they gain if those dungeons are changed into solo duties ? Either way, you wouldn't have access to it for leveling and farming, so you shouldn't bother how much time the roulette takes or how much it rewards you even now. The only thing that would do is prevent those who like the MSQ roulette as it is to do in the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

And to hell with the new players who don't care, amirite? They also exist. And what about fast readers who'd like to click their own texts? What about slow readers who can't read fast enough before the texts shift over?
This solution doesn't even cover the entirety of the demographic they claim they wanted to cater for.

The problem with both you and Reynhart is that you think if anyone is displeased with this solution, then they're against finding a solution for this period and we should be happy with this new situation just because they addressed the issue to begin with. That's not how it works. And you'd also do well to notice that the majority of people are advocating for it to become a solo duty - we're throwing the roulette out the window to begin with so no one is holding onto their precious 'check entry on the daily to-do list'.

---

And you claim to know what I think.

Not to hell. They have their solution. PF. Did you forget about party finder? People who read extremely quickly can wait. Oh gods.. gods forbid someone waits during these dungeons that happen ONCE each in every characters story. The people who cannot read fast enough? Alright, there's consideration there, but we've gotten no complaints yet. From what I've seen if you read fast enough to read at a speaking speed you're OK. But yes, lets not leave out people with certain disabilities. Maybe also include the text in the chat so they CAN read it at their own pace. There are solutions that can be had for that problem.

I've noticed the people who are advocating for it to be a solo duty, and all the work and development that would entail, which is a highly unlikely course of action for a company that in the past has left old content to rot unless absolutely necessary and even then will take the path of least investment. Throw out roulette, but ask for days of development work instead. Do YOU think SE would pick that avenue? Are you under the impression it would be a quick thing to implement, quick in development terms of course?

I'm not the one complaining it's taking too long now. If that doesn't apply to you, then frankly, mind your own business.

The situation has changed, the pool of people running the dungeons has gotten larger and the possibility for the MSQ roulette to be functional WITHOUT rushing sprouts through their stories or breaking the lines is there. Howbout we see if this works? Right now the only people complaining are the "this used to be leveling checkbox" crowd.

I DON'T think you're against finding a solution. I don't agree with your solution. I think your solution is unlikely and overly involved for such outdated content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

Do YOU think SE would pick that avenue? Are you under the impression it would be a quick thing to implement, quick in development terms of course?

---

Of course not, but long term I believe it'd be more beneficial to the game than any Perform revamps they dished out this patch that could harmlessly have come out later.

Quote:

---

Right now the only people complaining are the "this used to be leveling checkbox" crowd.

---

I don't see anyone complaining so much as just not running it. Be it that I'll eventually have to run my alts through it, however, this does in fact concern me regardless.

Quote:

---

I think your solution is unlikely and overly involved for such outdated content.

---

Content all charas have to go through unless they line SE's pockets by buying the story potion. If they were suddenly tweaking Coils, I'd have agreed with you, but they're not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

This is what I don't understand...for veteran players, who are basically those complaining that the MSQ roulette is wasted, what would they gain if those dungeons are changed into solo duties ? Either way, you wouldn't have access to it for leveling and farming, so you shouldn't bother how much time the roulette takes or how much it rewards you even now. The only thing that would do is prevent those who like the MSQ roulette as it is to do in the future.

---

Things that make you go Hmmmm!
I've been reading this thread and I found this odd as well, it doesn't make sense, its like theres some agenda hiding in there, because its simply a case of do it, or don't.
It's up to each individual if they deem it worth their time, or maybe enjoy helping new players at a slow and chill pace.
For all SE's failings for which there are plenty, the one thing they do do well is metrics, if it doesn't work, they will know about pretty quickly and do something about it, nothing said on these forums will have any sway in that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Of course not, but long term I believe it'd be more beneficial to the game than any Perform revamps they dished out this patch that could harmlessly have come out later.

---

I don't particularly LIKE the perform thing. In fact it's possibly the most personally annoying thing they've implemented in my opinion. I was super happy when they implemented an option to turn it off. But People do like it and use it. You'd be telling people their particular content was less important.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I don't see anyone complaining so much as just not running it. Be it that I'll eventually have to run my alts through it, however, this does in fact concern me regardless.

---

You don't consider the tens of posts in this very thread saying it's stupid and saying they won't run it complaining? Odd, I do. And when you run your alts through it I personally promise if my sub is still valid to collect 5 of my friends to rush you through it unsynched if you cannot find a PF to do the same. I truly don't think it will be an issue for people who want to rush through it to find people who'll do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Content all charas have to go through unless they line SE's pockets by buying the story potion. If they were suddenly tweaking Coils, I'd have agreed with you, but they're not.

---

I'm never going to convince someone who thinks SE makes every decision in the direction of the cash shop that this was made in the majority of the people experiencing the problems best interest (while of course saving money and encouraging those new players to continue spending money). You have your opinions of SE and I have mine. I'm not arguing the "cash shop is king" line because I think that's idiotic. There are many ways for a company to make money and most of them are very good at making it much less obvious. But if you think that was the driving force behind this decision, my experience trying to convince others that this was likely not the case tells me to just stop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

I don't particularly LIKE the perform thing. In fact it's possibly the most personally annoying thing they've implemented in my opinion. I was super happy when they implemented an option to turn it off. But People do like it and use it. You'd be telling people their particular content was less important.

---

From the game's perspective, it factually is.

Quote:

---

And when you run your alts through it I personally promise if my sub is still valid to collect 5 of my friends to rush you through it unsynched if you cannot find a PF to do the same.

---

If I run it unsynced I'll power my alt to 60 in POTD and unsync it myself, that's not the problem. I'll still have to sit through the same cutscenes I don't care about. I just ran it unsynced on a level 70 and I still had to watch the gosh darned cutscenes. They should have at least limited it to there being a first timer in the instance. There isn't? You won, it's going to be a fast roulette. There is? You knew what you were queueing for to begin with so it's all good.

Quote:

---

I'm never going to convince someone who thinks SE makes every decision in the direction of the cash shop

---

You told me I didn't know what you were thinking, so I'll throw that right back at you. I don't think they did it for money, though I can see a lot of people going there to avoid this on alts. I think they picked the path of least resistance without actually checking what resistances would arise as a result.

An aside, it only says the cutscenes will not be skipable on the roulette info page in the duty finder. It says no such thing on the separate duties' pages though it really honestly should.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

From the game's perspective, it factually is.

---

from that point of view, yes. From the perspective that all aspects of a game that people enjoy are equally important. No. But then again.. it is perspective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

If I run it unsynced I'll power my alt to 60 in POTD and unsync it myself, that's not the problem. I'll still have to sit through the same cutscenes I don't care about. I just ran it unsynced on a level 70 and I still had to watch the gosh darned cutscenes. They should have at least limited it to there being a first timer in the instance. There isn't? You won, it's going to be a fast roulette. There is? You knew what you were queueing for to begin with so it's all good.

---

THAT is a problem, I was under the impression since the description WASN'T there in the dutys entry that outside of the roulette it functioned as it always had. That needs to change. Also, this other solution you've proposed ALSO fixes the majority of the problem, perhaps that couldn't be done for the same reason the duty seems to HAVE to have the same restriction. It's a flag that cannot be flipflopped. Just ON or OFF as long as the duty is there. Either way yes, that needs to change for people who want to rerun or speedrun but do not want a 40 minute investment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

You told me I didn't know what you were thinking, so I'll throw that right back at you. I don't think they did it for money, though I can see a lot of people going there to avoid this on alts. I think they picked the path of least resistance without actually checking what resistances would arise as a result.

---

OK, fair enough that was a large assumption. Personally I cannot see people dropping 18-25 dollars just to skip 2 hours total. That's a lot of money for a minor problem. More than a months sub with extra retainers. Mentioning the pots as an alternative seems ludicrous.
With the addition of that last information about the duties even unsynched having to watch cutscenes at a set pace, I'll say this seems poorly implemented or at least incompletely.

I decided to see how bad it was for myself. Ran at really oddball time in the morning, took less then 10 min to que as a dps and got Castrium. At least 3 people were freshies to it.
Dealing with the cutscenes was bad, especially on stupid ones that give you hints that you already know, and take you out of fights that are in progress. While you don't take damage while in cutscene (I picture all the imperials getting a quick smoke break while waiting) the second you get out, they can hammer on the tank, and the heals need to be on top of it or they're dead.
The text stuff is what SERIOUSLY bothers me. That part is unclickable, and it's done at a short bus reading pace. Most 7 year olds can read through it faster then that.

I did my time, paid my dues there, I'm done with that. Not gonna que for that again until they make some changes.

So does the text auto play, or do you have to click through it? If it's auto play I could see myself queuing up and alt-tabbing the cutscenes if I have time for a 30-minute dungeon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

So does the text auto play, or do you have to click through it? If it's auto play I could see myself queuing up and alt-tabbing the cutscenes if I have time for a 30-minute dungeon.

---

It's auto-play thankfully. I'm going to make it a goal to run this once a day as Tank to help the newbie players out a bit so the time during cutscenes will be used to talk to the party in game or to people over on my Discord.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

With the addition of that last information about the duties even unsynched having to watch cutscenes at a set pace, I'll say this seems poorly implemented or at least incompletely.

---

That's my beef with it. Like everyone here agrees, don't like it, don't run the roulette, and I certainly don't intend to (which has room for debate about how smart a decision that was given roulettes are there to supplement queues, but we'll only know how well that goes with time, it's too soon to judge now). I can get my levels and poetics elsewhere. But this affects more than the roulette goers. I can run it unsynced on a max level chara and still be stuck with the same grueling experience, regardless of how much I care for the scenes or how fast I read it despite being the only person in the instance. That fact becomes all the more horrible when you acknowledge that most scenes have to tell you where to go because of how un-intuitive those dungeons are - even if I wanted to enjoy the story scenes, I'm still stuck with minutes on minutes of that despite knowing full well where to go. And as this is MSQ content, anyone who doesn't buy the story potion is affected. That's the true issue here and why so many people joke about it being a ploy to get story-jump sales up.

So far, I've had a great time talking to people in the chat during the cutscenes ... well aside from the usual whiners.

I've also watched a ton of videos and played mobile games on my phone while I waited.

No big deal to me. Though I do agree if no one in the party is tagged as a 'new player', the cutscenes should be auto skipped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

I don't agree with your solution. I think your solution is unlikely and overly involved for such outdated content.

---

To be fair, the suggestion that Castrum and Praetorium be turned into solo duties is not a new suggestion; it’s something many players have been suggesting for years, and the developers have ignored it and clung to their initial design idea for the two instances, despite admitting that they were poorly designed and having never made any other dungeons like them since.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

I've also watched a ton of videos and played mobile games on my phone while I waited.

---

I'm glad you don't mind, but this bit made me laugh a bit. It's like our time is so undervalued that we resort to killing time by watching videos/playing other games whilst in the middle of a dungeon run. Exhilarating content right there! ;)


With that said, I think I'll give it a shot myself tonight, see if it's worth it in my quest to get my blm up to 60. Some times lazy runs are nice. :3

47 pages now about a change that affects new players and only one new player posted in it.
Kinda ironic dont you think?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

I'm glad you don't mind, but this bit made me laugh a bit. It's like our time is so undervalued that we resort to killing time by watching videos/playing other games whilst in the middle of a dungeon run. Exhilarating content right there! ;)


With that said, I think I'll give it a shot myself tonight, see if it's worth it in my quest to get my blm up to 60. Some times lazy runs are nice. :3

---

They definitely can be. Also, low stress runs can be good too. I finally caved and did this the last 2 nights, got Castrum and Praetorium. Prae is pretty terrible with the CS's but its not as unbearable as people make it, and there were plenty of vets in the party to just stomp it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

To be fair, the suggestion that Castrum and Praetorium be turned into solo duties is not a new suggestion; it’s something many players have been suggesting for years, and the developers have ignored it and clung to their initial design idea for the two instances, despite admitting that they were poorly designed and having never made any other dungeons like them since.

---

+1, @Krotoan, if they where not interested in changing outdated content, they wouldn't of made this BS change to begin with. Also I am not even going to bother replying to your rant. I find it amusing how people that are more against speed running act more toxic then the group they claim is full of toxicity.

A lot of times when someone is complaining about speed running the reply is "Why not just unsync pf it?" and such replies are even more true when a small pre made group attempts to hold the group hostage since they have the ability to clear it unsync.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

And to hell with the new players who don't care, amirite? They also exist. And what about fast readers who'd like to click their own texts? What about slow readers who can't read fast enough before the texts shift over?
This solution doesn't even cover the entirety of the demographic they claim they wanted to cater for.

The problem with both you and Reynhart is that you think if anyone is displeased with this solution, then they're against finding a solution for this period and we should be happy with this new situation just because they addressed the issue to begin with. That's not how it works. And you'd also do well to notice that the majority of people are advocating for it to become a solo duty - we're throwing the roulette out the window to begin with so no one is holding onto their precious 'check entry on the daily to-do list'.

---

+1 yep it all exists, there are new players that do not care as well and skip them without a thought.

@Reynhart you do realize the people that do come and complain about the MSQ is a tiny minority right? How many people do you think really quit over this? This change hurts more people then it helps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

I was comparing Arf poetic farming to Msq and I was clearly talking about a level 70 player.

Again you are missing the point if the 70 player switches to a new job to level then the player is clearly leveling which means that job is not level 70..

Stop trying to twist what I say. if the player that is queuing into the roulette is on a level 70 job then the roulette is pretty useless. Also in both my post I mentioned players with max levels have no use for this roulette so please why are you talking about level 60s when I mentioned 70s only??

---

twisting what we say *
the idea is to push queue times down for new people so they can pass the content. I guess longer queue times for new players is better then dealing with speed running. Not exactly something I agree with but whatever. Shocks me to no end there are people defending the change, rofl

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

That's my beef with it. Like everyone here agrees, don't like it, don't run the roulette, and I certainly don't intend to (which has room for debate about how smart a decision that was given roulettes are there to supplement queues, but we'll only know how well that goes with time, it's too soon to judge now). I can get my levels and poetics elsewhere. But this affects more than the roulette goers. I can run it unsynced on a max level chara and still be stuck with the same grueling experience, regardless of how much I care for the scenes or how fast I read it despite being the only person in the instance. That fact becomes all the more horrible when you acknowledge that most scenes have to tell you where to go because of how un-intuitive those dungeons are - even if I wanted to enjoy the story scenes, I'm still stuck with minutes on minutes of that despite knowing full well where to go. And as this is MSQ content, anyone who doesn't buy the story potion is affected. That's the true issue here and why so many people joke about it being a ploy to get story-jump sales up.

---

ROFL, you can't skip it undersized, what a joke. I just tried it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

This change hurts more people then it helps.

---

Considering none of us can actually provide decent sample of that, I'd refrain from making these kind of assumption.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

To be fair, the suggestion that Castrum and Praetorium be turned into solo duties is not a new suggestion; it’s something many players have been suggesting for years, and the developers have ignored it and clung to their initial design idea for the two instances, despite admitting that they were poorly designed and having never made any other dungeons like them since.

---

OK, I can understand that line of thinking. But as I said, how likely is it that they're going to retract that stance and suddenly decide that now 5 year old content needs a rework of that magnitude? I'm not saying your suggestion wouldn't work, just that adjustments to what they've actually done are more likely to happen and would be an easier "sale" for them to adopt. This team is far from infallible, but you get things done with compromise, not with demanding your way or nothing. We understand they are incredibly resistant to changing the actual run, they've settled for fiddling with the nitty gritty of flipping switches in the gates. What would be the best configuration of those switches to make the most people happy? Right now.. admitted after further information, not this one. There is no option to run it quickly anymore so that needs to be put back. But the roulette part I believe can be left alone unless they are irrevocably linked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

+1, @Krotoan, if they where not interested in changing outdated content, they wouldn't of made this BS change to begin with. Also I am not even going to bother replying to your rant. I find it amusing how people that are more against speed running act more toxic then the group they claim is full of toxicity.

ROFL, you can't skip it undersized, what a joke. I just tried it

---

I'm sorry did it cover too many things that you actually said? I'm done with you then.
you're obviously ignoring things that disagree with you and posting poorly worded garbage. If you'd read ANYTHING in between those posts you'd have seen we've already found unsynched still has the cutscene limit which I concede is a problem.
I will be ignoring the majority of your further posts since you reply to valid criticism with plugged ears. Hope that's what you were going for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coratanni

Seriously if the cutscenes are what's making you buy a skip potion, rather than the fact that you were going to be doing the many hour grind between ARR and HW, as well as HW to get to SB... You have a very strange sense of time and time efficiency. And this is from someone who also has 5 characters that are at SB or finished with the story.

---

It's an added potential 7 hours across my characters! There are parts of the story I love doing again, CM and Prae cutscenes ARE NOT a part that I love doing again, and FORCING me to watch them again, regardless of if I UNSYNC it or not, is down right stupid.

I would get it if this was just in the MSQ roulette, but I can't even unsync it, and now I surely won't find people that would even want to unsync it should I get caught up. Not that I would want to anyway because WHY would I want to watch those scenes again?

The hundreds of hours you will have invested in those alternate characters to get through the story nullifies your argument about time. The hour-and-a-half you would spend potentially on each character for this section is a fraction of what you will spend doing the story as a whole, each time. You will spend more than 7 hours just doing the hundred Quests between A Realm Reborn and heavensward for one character. If you want to talk about a time waster that would give you more credibility.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coratanni

The hundreds of hours you will have invested in those alternate characters to get through the story nullifies your argument about time. The hour-and-a-half you would spend potentially on each character for this section is a fraction of what you will spend doing the story as a whole, each time. You will spend more than 7 hours just doing the hundred Quests between A Realm Reborn and heavensward for one character. If you want to talk about a time waster that would give you more credibility.

---

No, it does not, because I enjoy doing those quests again, I don't mind it, I can skip the CS if I don't like it, I use to be able to do that with CM and Prae, now I can not, and that is not ok. There is no reason I shouldn't be able to do quests at whatever pace fits me, but now I'm being forced to sit through something that I do not enjoy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anarnee

There is no reason I shouldn't be able to do quests at whatever pace fits me, but now I'm being forced to sit through something that I do not enjoy.

---

Considering you already spend so much time leveling 8 characters, you'll do those dungeons for each of them when the time comes, even if you don't like it, so it won't change anything wether you complain or not.

Here a fix:
1: (those that completed already) DF setting > speed run only(no new people)
2: (new player) normal msq but have npc Cid fight with you just like any other quest where the npc fight along side you. Make it somewhat easy i guess . -.-
3: Trust npc (FFXI)

If you want the bonus then play with the new players. If not you'll get default reward plus speed run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Considering you already spend so much time leveling 8 characters, you'll do those dungeons for each of them when the time comes, even if you don't like it, so it won't change anything wether you complain or not.

---

No, I will not, and I will be heard, whether you like it or not. If you don't agree with me it's one thing, but being rude and trying to shut me down it not ok, because my opinion and feedback is just as valid as yours.

I -LOVE- ffxiv. I have played this game since 2013.

I love this community and I love the world. I bought my brand new PS3 for this game, and I bought my brand new PS4 for this game only months after that.

I have always hated the situation with CM and Prae, because five years ago THAT WAS ME.

I ran CM and Prae, and was told by my FC, my FRIENDS at the time, to skip the cut scenes, and THAT F#$%(*% sucked! I had no idea what happened in the story and I didn't go back to the inn to watch the scenes because I was past it, I wanted to move on with the story. It does not make sense to play the story in such a disjointed manner.

It has taken them FIVE YEARS and THIS is the solution?

I never got to see those scenes until I leveled BRD on my main and decided I wanted to DUO main BRD and DRG so I leveled my second character to 50 and by the grace of Hydaelyn, I got a group that had people running Prae for newbies, and they INSISTED, on waiting, so it was then running with my alt that I finally got to experience what I had missed.

I even made another alt on their server, Gilgamesh, to join their fc, and leveled that character there, so that I could help this group with their CS runs of CM and Prae.

Because I wanted people to have that opportunity too!

Years pass and they do something about it, and it is THIS?


FIVE YEARS and this is what they've come up with?

No, this is just as lazy as their solutions for housing, this is a band-aid over a festering wound and is not really fixing the core issue at all.
The dungeons are badly paced and they are the reason we have never gotten 8man dungeons again. Though they could easily put more in, if they paced them as they do the current content. They have obviously learned a lesson but not the right one, and they've not really FIXED CM or Prae. There were MANY other ways to do this and I am disappointed.

Yoshi-P laughed and said make a new character if I want to experience things in the story again, like solo instances, well guess what. I did, I have. And now you're getting in the way of my experience of that too?

That is not fair.
I'm all for helping new people to experience the story, but I'm never going to agree to something at the expense of other players too.
That is not ok. This is not a solution. It's a waste of my time that I could be putting into a different part of the game that I do actually like.

Instead of trying to shut down people that have input, how about giving some actual input yourself?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Considering you already spend so much time leveling 8 characters, you'll do those dungeons for each of them when the time comes, even if you don't like it, so it won't change anything wether you complain or not.

---

If you had to do something you didn't like, would you rather it take 15 minutes or 45 minutes?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jijifli

If you had to do something you didn't like, would you rather it take 15 minutes or 45 minutes?

---

Did new players really had a choice for the past 5 years ?
If this community didn't have enough jerks to make this roulette clearly a problem, they wouldn't have to put that kind of solution. Which, again, is still offering nice rewards for the time you spend on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Did new players really had a choice for the past 5 years ?

---

Two wrongs don't make a right. The fact it hasn't been done right until now doesn't mean it should be done wrong but in a different way. There's no reason why I shouldn't be able to go in there unsynced and run the thing as I damn well please where I absolutely will not affect anyone, or even synced but with a full premade where everyone agreed on how to run it. It's the most basic of basics and this completely ignores it, especially in a game which is supposed to be FUN. And don't start with me about how poor sprouts suffered those five years, I never said the old situation was alright. There's no moral high-ground in your stance, only spite and vindictiveness.