[Dev1235] Job Adjustments

[Dale]

Honestly it is probably meant as a sop to BSTs more than anything, but if that's the case further solidifying us as a job that has no place in groups isn't a solution it's an insult. They need to give us (AT LEAST) native dual wield 1 or 2 so we can sub a real DD sub job to make up for our complete lack of any offensive JA. Or they need to give us a major boost to scythe skill and make scythe suck less and put us on real scythes. We HAVE NO PLACE in group content and that's the problem. I really don't need a boost to soloing. I want to be able to play my favourite job with my friends, and not just when the content is easy enough that we can afford a pity slot.

What does sop mean? I'm not familiar with that term.

[Olor]

What does sop mean? I'm not familiar with that term.

sop: noun \ˈsäp\

: something that is done or given to someone in order to prevent trouble, gain support, etc
: a conciliatory or propitiatory bribe, gift, or gesture

Middle English soppe, from Old English sopp; akin to Old English sūpan to swallow.
First Known Use: before 12th century

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sop

A sop is a piece of bread soaked in a liquid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOP

Here you go. Hope that helps. Basically imagine a soggy peice of bread dipped in thin soup. That's what a sop is. It might fill the belly, but it's still an insult.

[Dale]

Here you go. Hope that helps. Basically imagine a soggy peice of bread dipped in thin soup. That's what a sop is. It might fill the belly, but it's still an insult.

I see. Yeah that clears it up and thanks for the clarification.

But aren't Beastmasters already one of the preeminent solo jobs on this game? I don't play the job, but I was under the impression they were already very good at solo.

[Ulth]

Unless the SAM doesn't sit still, or there is more than one, or everyone has already reached the hate cap and the mob is just spinning like a top.

You forgot knockback having people standing with their backs to walls, and when people fight on the very edge of combat range. Sure you can tell them to step forward, but a lot of the time it is just too much work for them to step forward for 2 seconds.

It would not suprise me at all to learn that they THF is totally fine as a DD becuase they test all this garbage without haste and buffs. Of course then Dagger Guaranteed crit WS and SATA timers are competetive. But haste and buffs don't do for THF what they do for other DDs and its things like this they don't seem to consider (assuming it's no just that they want THF to be shit tier...it's entirely possible that they do).

I bet is has more to do with that stupid census they did. Thief was one of the most played jobs, huzzah thief must have nothing wrong with it! Nope, the reason so many people have thief leveled is for old content they solo for money like salvage and dynamis.

Then there are the people who actually play thief and it's our favorite job. We know what's wrong with it even have ideas how to make it better, but it's like screaming at a brick wall.

[Olor]

I see. Yeah that clears it up and thanks for the clarification.

But aren't Beastmasters already one of the preeminent solo jobs on this game? I don't play the job, but I was under the impression they were already very good at solo.

Only old content. That's the point, I don't care about being good at solo. Every job is good at solo now. There is literally nothing relevant a bst can solo that other jobs can't do better. But they are also the most likely job going out there with little/no haste.

[Nebo]

I bet is has more to do with that stupid census they did. Thief was one of the most played jobs, huzzah thief must have nothing wrong with it! Nope, the reason so many people have thief leveled is for old content they solo for money like salvage and dynamis.

Then there are the people who actually play thief and it's our favorite job. We know what's wrong with it even have ideas how to make it better, but it's like screaming at a brick wall.

I don't doubt it. But personally, I wouldn't want to have to be the one to sift through all that vitriol on the Thief forums.

I get the feeling that because THF has a passive trait that is desired for certain battles, they think that should be enough. That a job to be DESIRED for something (if at least part of the time) is sufficient. I disagree. I find that to be poor design. In an MMO like this it should be about skill level, creating more powerful gearsets and improving the actual game play experience. I sincerely hope they do give a second look to all 1 handed DPS jobs without the "we weren't considering things like haste and support buffs" goggles on.

But you are right there are a lot of clunky things that get in the way THF endgame damage. Not the least of which is players that don't stand close enough to the mob for you to be in melee range when behind them. This happens to me at least once every day.

• Players move around constanly
• Mobs change hate targets constantly due to fluctuating enmity spikes
• Unreasonably long recast timers on WS JA's
• Comparatively weak weaponskills (when not using SA/TA)
• Knockback effects
• Then you have all the lead time it takes to make positional things happen or recover from them when they don't.
• Regular Combat Job Ability Delay (SA/AuraSteal/Conspirator/TA/Bully/Feint/AC)

And it just keeps getting worse and worse the more haste & support the party has. In a FFXI with fast battles, capped delay reduction and endgame support buffs....there's no way this doesn't deserve adjustment from the dev team.

[Olor]

They should just allow THF to sneak attack/trick attack if they aren't at the top of the hate list. This positional stuff is nonsense in modern XI.

But you are right there are a lot of clunky things that get in the way THF endgame damage. Not the least of which is players that don't stand close enough to the mob for you to be in melee range when behind them. This happens to me at least once every day.

This would happen to me with trust all the time too, engaging at the absolute furthest possible distance from the mob. So annoying.

[Nebo]

I also wanted to comment on this aspect of their response:

However, one-handed jobs also possess unique abilities such as Treasure Hunter and Blue Magic as well, so we will consider such things as we plan for adjustments.
When we have worked out the details we will be sure to tell you on the forums, so please wait for a little while.

EVERY DAMAGE DEALING JOB HAS UNIQUE ABILITIES

SAM is the master of creating skillchains and TP manipulation.

WAR has tanking abilities, retaliation, enfeebling WS and has mastery over many weapons.

MNK has high survivability, Counter, HP Recovery/Party HP boost, and can switch to non elemental magic damage with formless strikes

DRK has HP/MP drain WS, Dark/ Black Magic

DRG has a pet that changes utility with Sub, enmity manipulation, enfeebling abilities, jumps

RNG has treasure Hunter, decoy shot, low enmity and safe range DPS

TREASURE HUNTER IS NOT A REASON FOR THF TO BE PURPOSEFULLY WEAK

[Camiie]

Only old content. That's the point, I don't care about being good at solo. Every job is good at solo now. There is literally nothing relevant a bst can solo that other jobs can't do better. But they are also the most likely job going out there with little/no haste.

What SE needs to do is focus on how jobs perform in their respective roles within a group setting and ignore any advantages outside of that completely. Whether a job can solo well or not should have no negative bearing on what it's capable of in a group. I'd feel the same if FFXI had a heavy PVP element. PVP shouldn't affect PVE. Solo shouldn't affect group play. Jobs shouldn't be one trick ponies or one event wonders. They should be able to contribute meaningfully in all aspects of group play. Sorry, devs, if that's too hard for you. Sorry players if you're afraid someone else with a different job will horn in on your turf. That's the way it should be.

[Afania]

Before SE move on and buff other DD jobs, can we get a SAM nerf plz?