[Dev1235] Job Adjustments

[Afania]

Before SE move on and buff other DD jobs, can we get a SAM nerf plz?

[Maikeru_Sylph]

Before SE move on and buff other DD jobs, can we get a SAM nerf plz?

All I ever see are people wanting to nerf SAM, but SAM is hardly ever shouted for, especially for high-tier battlefields. I will admit SAM is powerful, but their strength lies in skillchaining and that alone should show people how important it is to SC+ MB again. SE is trying to get people to do that again, but people seem too lazy to do it. I think other things need to be taken into consideration like Tsurumaru. Also, if SAM should be nerfed then it should also come 3-fold, including RNG and MNK. I know people don't want to nerf RNG again, but the job requires no skill to play and ranged weaponskills shouldn't ignore DEF. The future seems to be full of high-tier battlefields and the only DD getting invited is RNG.

SE needs to stop and think about how they can make other DD jobs just as useful as these jobs. If they don't want to buff their damage capabilities, then they need to increase their support capabilities. SMN, for instance, could use a huge buff on Wards (and Avatar's Favor is not how to go about it). DNC, in another example, can do a lot of different things, but other jobs do it more efficiently. There needs to be something that makes a DNC stand out, and it's not TP-based healing. Ain't no one got time for TP-based healing (unless you're soloing)! Start by buffing the hell out of Haste Samba. Everyone loves that. Go ahead, break it. Make these support capabilities as good as BRD.

Cap on Enmity? I don't even know where your head was at SE. Simple solution for tanks is to remove it. In fact, do it right now and make an announcement about it.

[Dale]

All I ever see are people wanting to nerf SAM, but SAM is hardly ever shouted for, especially for high-tier battlefields. I will admit SAM is powerful, but their strength lies in skillchaining and that alone should show people how important it is to SC+ MB again. SE is trying to get people to do that again, but people seem too lazy to do it. I think other things need to be taken into consideration like Tsurumaru. Also, if SAM should be nerfed then it should also come 3-fold, including RNG and MNK. I know people don't want to nerf RNG again, but the job requires no skill to play and ranged weaponskills shouldn't ignore DEF. The future seems to be full of high-tier battlefields and the only DD getting invited is RNG.

SE needs to stop and think about how they can make other DD jobs just as useful as these jobs. If they don't want to buff their damage capabilities, then they need to increase their support capabilities. SMN, for instance, could use a huge buff on Wards (and Avatar's Favor is not how to go about it). DNC, in another example, can do a lot of different things, but other jobs do it more efficiently. There needs to be something that makes a DNC stand out, and it's not TP-based healing. Ain't no one got time for TP-based healing (unless you're soloing)! Start by buffing the hell out of Haste Samba. Everyone loves that. Go ahead, break it. Make these support capabilities as good as BRD.

Cap on Enmity? I don't even know where your head was at SE. Simple solution for tanks is to remove it. In fact, do it right now and make an announcement about it.

I don't think Samurais need a nerf either.

They are capable of extremely high burst damage - no doubt about it. But due precisely to the enmity cap you mention I think that helps keep them in check and from becoming over-powered.

[Afania]

I don't think Samurais need a nerf either.

They are capable of extremely high burst damage - no doubt about it. But due precisely to the enmity cap you mention I think that helps keep them in check and from becoming over-powered.

Dale, if you don't do endgame or only do endgame on DD PLD, can you please don't make comment about this issue? Sorry I know I sound offensive, but I'm just stating a fact.....the fact that you talk about enmity cap and SAM in the same topic shows that you were focusing on the wrong side of the argument and it's not fixing the job balance issue at all.

The fact is, SAM is just THAT ahead of other DD, AND the SC mechanics is preventing other players to play other DD job even if there's a pt spot open.

People don't shout for SAMs because they're a dime a dozen. The second best weapon for the job drops from an event that takes 20 minutes with a bad group.

The 2nd best weapon for the job takes 20 min to get isn't even the issue, most job's 2nd best weapon are just as easy, or almost just as easy.

SAM using the 2nd best weapon still beats other mythic DD is the issue.

But the situation you describe seems more like an example of a well-organized strategy using high burst damage coupled with well-timed stuns. It doesn't seem like the abuse of a over-powered job to me.

The enmity cap is still a factor because that's why you have to bring stuns in the first place. So the Samurai doesn't die from auto attacks in the aftermath of a nasty TP move. So I don't see any problem with this.

None of the event in this game needs stun to clear with a SAM, enmity cap isn't the reason. Stuns makes thing faster, that's why ppl bring stuns..

Again, this issue has nothing to do with enmity cap, stuns nor zerging. It's just simple math and experience showing that SAM is that far ahead of other DDs.

[Maikeru_Sylph]

None of the event in this game needs stun to clear with a SAM, enmity cap isn't the reason. Stuns makes thing faster, that's why ppl bring stuns..

Again, this issue has nothing to do with enmity cap, stuns nor zerging. It's just simple math and experience showing that SAM is that far ahead of other DDs.

God I wish this were true because I'd love to do delve without shouting for SCH or even going SCH myself. People can't beat Tojil without stun. It's been proven time and time again. I feel like I'm on some magical, non-existent server because people don't beat delve on my server without stun and sure as hell don't clear the entire zone in 20 mins.

[Afania]

God I wish this were true because I'd love to do delve without shouting for SCH or even going SCH myself. People can't beat Tojil without stun. It's been proven time and time again. I feel like I'm on some magical, non-existent server because people don't beat delve on my server without stun and sure as hell don't clear the entire zone in 20 mins.

You can change server!

[Dale]

Dale, if you don't do endgame or only do endgame on DD PLD, can you please don't make comment about this issue? Sorry I know I sound offensive, but I'm just stating a fact.....the fact that you talk about enmity cap and SAM in the same topic shows that you were focusing on the wrong side of the argument and it's not fixing the job balance issue at all.

The fact is, SAM is just THAT ahead of other DD, AND the SC mechanics is preventing other players to play other DD job even if there's a pt spot open..

You don't know what activities I do on the game Afania. So can you please not make a comment about that issue? And I certainly don't only do endgame on DD paladin. Though DD paladins are capable of doing endgame activities if they want to. Sorry if I sound offensive, but I'm just stating a fact.

We've already gone over this, but the only thing keeping other DD jobs from party spots are players like you who treat video games like a business rather the entertainment it's suppose to be. Because I do endgame content all the time without samurais in the group.

None of the event in this game needs stun to clear with a SAM, enmity cap isn't the reason. Stuns makes thing faster, that's why ppl bring stuns..

Again, this issue has nothing to do with enmity cap, stuns nor zerging. It's just simple math and experience showing that SAM is that far ahead of other DDs.

People bring stuns for the obvious reason - to stun things. I suppose you can argue they bring them to make things faster in the sense people aren't dying or needing the extra heals/support as a result. But I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said.

Not everything is about math and doing the most damage. There are other elements of the game at play. Such as enmity/defense and simply staying alive. You act as if Samurais can just waltz up to anything on this game and unload its full damage potential without having to worry about staying alive as a result. But that hasn't been my experience and they just aren't this god class you make them out to be. But who knows, maybe I just haven't met the right one. Because again: in my experience a reckless Samurai requires a lot of support to keep alive and if it isn't played smartly all that damage you speak of can quickly become a burden on the group rather than an asset.

That was the point I was trying to make in regards to enmity.

[Afania]

You don't know what activities I do on the game Afania. So can you please not make a comment about that issue? And I certainly don't only do endgame on DD paladin. Though DD paladins are capable of doing endgame activities if they want to. Sorry if I sound offensive, but I'm just stating a fact.

We've already gone over this, but the only thing keeping other DD jobs from party spots are players like you who treat video games like a business rather the entertainment it's suppose to be. Because I do endgame content all the time without samurais in the group.

People bring stuns for the obvious reason - to stun things. I suppose you can argue they bring them to make things faster in the sense people aren't dying or needing the extra heals/support as a result. But I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said.

Not everything is about math and doing the most damage. There are other elements of the game at play. Such as enmity/defense and simply staying alive. You act as if Samurais can just waltz up to anything on this game and unload its full damage potential without having to worry about staying alive as a result. But that hasn't been my experience and they just aren't this god class you make them out to be. But who knows, maybe I just haven't met the right one. Because again: in my experience a reckless Samurai requires a lot of support to keep alive and if it isn't played smartly all that damage you speak of can quickly become a burden on the group rather than an asset.

That was the point I was trying to make in regards to enmity.

Again you're focusing on the wrong side of argument, I'm not sure why's indiviual's POV toward playing FFXI is even relevant in this discussion....it doesn't matter if the player treat the game like a business or entertainment, the bloody fact is that SAM does a hell lot more dmg than other DD, AND other jobs DD with a SAM LOWERs pt output. This is just flawed from game design POV.

Again, this is a game design discussion. It seems that you feel that as long as you're having fun, it doesn't matter if the game mechanic is flawed. If you feel that way, then you shouldn't even comment. Because this issue isn't affecting you, but it's affecting everyone else. If I'm the only one experiencing this issue, we won't even see 20 pages of argument in another thread regarding job balance.

Emnity/defense isn't relevant in this discussion at all, personal play style isn't relevant in this discussion as well. This discussion is about math and game design, if you don't want to talk about math and game design, then you're focusing on the wrong side of the argument. Your personal experience and how you do event is completely irrelevant here.

Again, if all the argument you want to make is "SAM is just fine because I do endgame content without SAM just fine, and SAM dies when you use them anyways", then you're focusing on the wrong side of the argument.

[Ulth]

All I ever see are people wanting to nerf SAM, but SAM is hardly ever shouted for, especially for high-tier battlefields. I will admit SAM is powerful, but their strength lies in skillchaining and that alone should show people how important it is to SC+ MB again. SE is trying to get people to do that again, but people seem too lazy to do it. I think other things need to be taken into consideration like Tsurumaru. Also, if SAM should be nerfed then it should also come 3-fold, including RNG and MNK. I know people don't want to nerf RNG again, but the job requires no skill to play and ranged weaponskills shouldn't ignore DEF. The future seems to be full of high-tier battlefields and the only DD getting invited is RNG.

SE needs to stop and think about how they can make other DD jobs just as useful as these jobs. If they don't want to buff their damage capabilities, then they need to increase their support capabilities. SMN, for instance, could use a huge buff on Wards (and Avatar's Favor is not how to go about it). DNC, in another example, can do a lot of different things, but other jobs do it more efficiently. There needs to be something that makes a DNC stand out, and it's not TP-based healing. Ain't no one got time for TP-based healing (unless you're soloing)! Start by buffing the hell out of Haste Samba. Everyone loves that. Go ahead, break it. Make these support capabilities as good as BRD.

Cap on Enmity? I don't even know where your head was at SE. Simple solution for tanks is to remove it. In fact, do it right now and make an announcement about it.

Yep the job that gets shouted for is RNG, but that is also a symptom of the problem. First the reason people shout for RNG, but not SAM is the quality of SAM matters more than a RNG. For AA fights a poorly geared RNG will make due, but in delve which calls for a SAM, you actually need a geared one that knows what they are doing. That's why people don't shout for SAMs, they use ones they know, that they know are geared. But the problem that is making both of these jobs more powerful is the stats on gear. If you look closely the amount of store tp on gear has been steadily rising. This is a very good thing for jobs that have high delay weapons like SAM and RNG. On the contrast jobs with low delay weapons benefit much more from gear that increases number of hits; these are your one handed jobs. However since the addition of ilvl the stats for extra hits are actually going down.

[Afania]

All I ever see are people wanting to nerf SAM, but SAM is hardly ever shouted for, especially for high-tier battlefields. I will admit SAM is powerful, but their strength lies in skillchaining and that alone should show people how important it is to SC+ MB again. SE is trying to get people to do that again, but people seem too lazy to do it. I think other things need to be taken into consideration like Tsurumaru. Also, if SAM should be nerfed then it should also come 3-fold, including RNG and MNK. I know people don't want to nerf RNG again, but the job requires no skill to play and ranged weaponskills shouldn't ignore DEF. The future seems to be full of high-tier battlefields and the only DD getting invited is RNG.

SE needs to stop and think about how they can make other DD jobs just as useful as these jobs. If they don't want to buff their damage capabilities, then they need to increase their support capabilities. SMN, for instance, could use a huge buff on Wards (and Avatar's Favor is not how to go about it). DNC, in another example, can do a lot of different things, but other jobs do it more efficiently. There needs to be something that makes a DNC stand out, and it's not TP-based healing. Ain't no one got time for TP-based healing (unless you're soloing)! Start by buffing the hell out of Haste Samba. Everyone loves that. Go ahead, break it. Make these support capabilities as good as BRD.

Cap on Enmity? I don't even know where your head was at SE. Simple solution for tanks is to remove it. In fact, do it right now and make an announcement about it.

Unless we're playing a different game, I'm fairly certain that ppl /shout for SAM more than MNK and RNG.

The concept of SC worked in FFXI in 2003, but it certainly doesn't work NOW cuz DD gain TP faster than their WS animation. If having 2 DD ended up doing less dmg than 1 DD solo SC, something is wrong with the design. If you're picking DD jobs because of their access to WS, instead of that job's ability to do dmg, something is wrong. Having SC doing this much dmg, severally limited the amount of choice we can make when it comes to pt set up and choosing WS/playstyle.

The era of everyone coordinating for SC+MB is gone, just let it go already. Unless SE nerf DD TP speed back to 2003 era, I don't see how it can work.

As for RNG, RNG is a one trick pony, you either use it when you feel like you need it(too afraid to wipe with PUG in BC I mean), or you don't invite RNG at all, let's just leave it alone.

MNK is just fine.