[Dev1235] Job Adjustments

[Byrth]

People don't shout for SAMs because they're a dime a dozen. The second best weapon for the job drops from an event that takes 20 minutes with a bad group.

[Afania]

All I ever see are people wanting to nerf SAM, but SAM is hardly ever shouted for, especially for high-tier battlefields. I will admit SAM is powerful, but their strength lies in skillchaining and that alone should show people how important it is to SC+ MB again. SE is trying to get people to do that again, but people seem too lazy to do it. I think other things need to be taken into consideration like Tsurumaru. Also, if SAM should be nerfed then it should also come 3-fold, including RNG and MNK. I know people don't want to nerf RNG again, but the job requires no skill to play and ranged weaponskills shouldn't ignore DEF. The future seems to be full of high-tier battlefields and the only DD getting invited is RNG.

SE needs to stop and think about how they can make other DD jobs just as useful as these jobs. If they don't want to buff their damage capabilities, then they need to increase their support capabilities. SMN, for instance, could use a huge buff on Wards (and Avatar's Favor is not how to go about it). DNC, in another example, can do a lot of different things, but other jobs do it more efficiently. There needs to be something that makes a DNC stand out, and it's not TP-based healing. Ain't no one got time for TP-based healing (unless you're soloing)! Start by buffing the hell out of Haste Samba. Everyone loves that. Go ahead, break it. Make these support capabilities as good as BRD.

Cap on Enmity? I don't even know where your head was at SE. Simple solution for tanks is to remove it. In fact, do it right now and make an announcement about it.

Unless we're playing a different game, I'm fairly certain that ppl /shout for SAM more than MNK and RNG.

The concept of SC worked in FFXI in 2003, but it certainly doesn't work NOW cuz DD gain TP faster than their WS animation. If having 2 DD ended up doing less dmg than 1 DD solo SC, something is wrong with the design. If you're picking DD jobs because of their access to WS, instead of that job's ability to do dmg, something is wrong. Having SC doing this much dmg, severally limited the amount of choice we can make when it comes to pt set up and choosing WS/playstyle.

The era of everyone coordinating for SC+MB is gone, just let it go already. Unless SE nerf DD TP speed back to 2003 era, I don't see how it can work.

As for RNG, RNG is a one trick pony, you either use it when you feel like you need it(too afraid to wipe with PUG in BC I mean), or you don't invite RNG at all, let's just leave it alone.

MNK is just fine.

[Afania]

I don't think Samurais need a nerf either.

They are capable of extremely high burst damage - no doubt about it. But due precisely to the enmity cap you mention I think that helps keep them in check and from becoming over-powered.

Dale, if you don't do endgame or only do endgame on DD PLD, can you please don't make comment about this issue? Sorry I know I sound offensive, but I'm just stating a fact.....the fact that you talk about enmity cap and SAM in the same topic shows that you were focusing on the wrong side of the argument and it's not fixing the job balance issue at all.

The fact is, SAM is just THAT ahead of other DD, AND the SC mechanics is preventing other players to play other DD job even if there's a pt spot open.

People don't shout for SAMs because they're a dime a dozen. The second best weapon for the job drops from an event that takes 20 minutes with a bad group.

The 2nd best weapon for the job takes 20 min to get isn't even the issue, most job's 2nd best weapon are just as easy, or almost just as easy.

SAM using the 2nd best weapon still beats other mythic DD is the issue.

But the situation you describe seems more like an example of a well-organized strategy using high burst damage coupled with well-timed stuns. It doesn't seem like the abuse of a over-powered job to me.

The enmity cap is still a factor because that's why you have to bring stuns in the first place. So the Samurai doesn't die from auto attacks in the aftermath of a nasty TP move. So I don't see any problem with this.

None of the event in this game needs stun to clear with a SAM, enmity cap isn't the reason. Stuns makes thing faster, that's why ppl bring stuns..

Again, this issue has nothing to do with enmity cap, stuns nor zerging. It's just simple math and experience showing that SAM is that far ahead of other DDs.

[Maikeru_Sylph]

None of the event in this game needs stun to clear with a SAM, enmity cap isn't the reason. Stuns makes thing faster, that's why ppl bring stuns..

Again, this issue has nothing to do with enmity cap, stuns nor zerging. It's just simple math and experience showing that SAM is that far ahead of other DDs.

God I wish this were true because I'd love to do delve without shouting for SCH or even going SCH myself. People can't beat Tojil without stun. It's been proven time and time again. I feel like I'm on some magical, non-existent server because people don't beat delve on my server without stun and sure as hell don't clear the entire zone in 20 mins.

[Afania]

God I wish this were true because I'd love to do delve without shouting for SCH or even going SCH myself. People can't beat Tojil without stun. It's been proven time and time again. I feel like I'm on some magical, non-existent server because people don't beat delve on my server without stun and sure as hell don't clear the entire zone in 20 mins.

You can change server!

[Metaking]

there are a decent number of jobs where the second best weapon isnt a 20 min affair, and what byrth means on sams is you dont shout for them, because you ask your ls and like 20 people / . @Maikeru yea i have never beat a tojil without a stuner but i had a group at one point that are average time was 15 mins and had one run take only 13 mins (mnk drk blu whm brd rdm[before haste2 btw]), mind you, this was an op crew, and not a random pug group.

[Atomic_Skull]

People don't shout for SAMs because they're a dime a dozen. The second best weapon for the job drops from an event that takes 20 minutes with a bad group.

No the reason they are a dime a dozen is because SAM the most facerollingest faceroll job in the entire game.

[Dale]

Dale, if you don't do endgame or only do endgame on DD PLD, can you please don't make comment about this issue? Sorry I know I sound offensive, but I'm just stating a fact.....the fact that you talk about enmity cap and SAM in the same topic shows that you were focusing on the wrong side of the argument and it's not fixing the job balance issue at all.

The fact is, SAM is just THAT ahead of other DD, AND the SC mechanics is preventing other players to play other DD job even if there's a pt spot open..

You don't know what activities I do on the game Afania. So can you please not make a comment about that issue? And I certainly don't only do endgame on DD paladin. Though DD paladins are capable of doing endgame activities if they want to. Sorry if I sound offensive, but I'm just stating a fact.

We've already gone over this, but the only thing keeping other DD jobs from party spots are players like you who treat video games like a business rather the entertainment it's suppose to be. Because I do endgame content all the time without samurais in the group.

None of the event in this game needs stun to clear with a SAM, enmity cap isn't the reason. Stuns makes thing faster, that's why ppl bring stuns..

Again, this issue has nothing to do with enmity cap, stuns nor zerging. It's just simple math and experience showing that SAM is that far ahead of other DDs.

People bring stuns for the obvious reason - to stun things. I suppose you can argue they bring them to make things faster in the sense people aren't dying or needing the extra heals/support as a result. But I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said.

Not everything is about math and doing the most damage. There are other elements of the game at play. Such as enmity/defense and simply staying alive. You act as if Samurais can just waltz up to anything on this game and unload its full damage potential without having to worry about staying alive as a result. But that hasn't been my experience and they just aren't this god class you make them out to be. But who knows, maybe I just haven't met the right one. Because again: in my experience a reckless Samurai requires a lot of support to keep alive and if it isn't played smartly all that damage you speak of can quickly become a burden on the group rather than an asset.

That was the point I was trying to make in regards to enmity.

[Dale]

WAR/DNC with dual axes (in which case he's nerfing himself)

versus

BST/DNC with dual axes and the best DD pet available

Both using Ruinator. Both using essentially the same gear. I guarantee you that the WAR wins every time. Now compare the BST to a WAR going all out with GA and /SAM. The WAR wins by an even greater margin. The BST doesn't have the DPS tools that the WAR has and the pet doesn't make up the difference.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the WAR wins every time? Wins in what way?

If you are referring to damage, what does that matter? Just because a duel wielding warrior with a pair of axes can do more damage than duel wielding Beastmaster with a pair of axes doesn't mean the beastmaster doesn't contribute to a group. It still brings some offense to the group with the added benefit of a pet which can come in handy. For example: I've done a few AA fights where the beastmaster pet saved us from a wipe.

I don't understand why everything needs to be viewed in the context of who can do the most damage.

[Camiie]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the WAR wins every time? Wins in what way?

If you are referring to damage, what does that matter? Just because a duel wielding warrior with a pair of axes can do more damage than duel wielding Beastmaster with a pair of axes doesn't mean the beastmaster doesn't contribute to a group. It still brings some offense to the group with the added benefit of a pet which can come in handy. For example: I've done a few AA fights where the beastmaster pet saved us from a wipe.

You claimed that a job that can solo can hold its own in group play, and that simply isn't the case. Now I get that "holding its own" is subjective, but when your job's sole purpose is DPS and even at your best you are orders of magnitude behind someone half-assing another job then something is terribly wrong in my opinion.

I don't understand why everything needs to be viewed in the context of who can do the most damage.

Because that is what the job is there for. To not simply do damage, but to do the most damage possible.