[Dev1235] Job Adjustments

[Olor]

What does sop mean? I'm not familiar with that term.

sop: noun \ˈsäp\

: something that is done or given to someone in order to prevent trouble, gain support, etc
: a conciliatory or propitiatory bribe, gift, or gesture

Middle English soppe, from Old English sopp; akin to Old English sūpan to swallow.
First Known Use: before 12th century

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sop

A sop is a piece of bread soaked in a liquid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOP

Here you go. Hope that helps. Basically imagine a soggy peice of bread dipped in thin soup. That's what a sop is. It might fill the belly, but it's still an insult.

[Dale]

Here you go. Hope that helps. Basically imagine a soggy peice of bread dipped in thin soup. That's what a sop is. It might fill the belly, but it's still an insult.

I see. Yeah that clears it up and thanks for the clarification.

But aren't Beastmasters already one of the preeminent solo jobs on this game? I don't play the job, but I was under the impression they were already very good at solo.

[Olor]

I see. Yeah that clears it up and thanks for the clarification.

But aren't Beastmasters already one of the preeminent solo jobs on this game? I don't play the job, but I was under the impression they were already very good at solo.

Only old content. That's the point, I don't care about being good at solo. Every job is good at solo now. There is literally nothing relevant a bst can solo that other jobs can't do better. But they are also the most likely job going out there with little/no haste.

[Camiie]

Only old content. That's the point, I don't care about being good at solo. Every job is good at solo now. There is literally nothing relevant a bst can solo that other jobs can't do better. But they are also the most likely job going out there with little/no haste.

What SE needs to do is focus on how jobs perform in their respective roles within a group setting and ignore any advantages outside of that completely. Whether a job can solo well or not should have no negative bearing on what it's capable of in a group. I'd feel the same if FFXI had a heavy PVP element. PVP shouldn't affect PVE. Solo shouldn't affect group play. Jobs shouldn't be one trick ponies or one event wonders. They should be able to contribute meaningfully in all aspects of group play. Sorry, devs, if that's too hard for you. Sorry players if you're afraid someone else with a different job will horn in on your turf. That's the way it should be.

[Dale]

What SE needs to do is focus on how jobs perform in their respective roles within a group setting and ignore any advantages outside of that completely. Whether a job can solo well or not should have no negative bearing on what it's capable of in a group. I'd feel the same if FFXI had a heavy PVP element. PVP shouldn't affect PVE. Solo shouldn't affect group play. Jobs shouldn't be one trick ponies or one event wonders. They should be able to contribute meaningfully in all aspects of group play. Sorry, devs, if that's too hard for you. Sorry players if you're afraid someone else with a different job will horn in on your turf. That's the way it should be.

You make an interesting point and I agree with it in spirit - but I feel all jobs already can contribute meaningfully to a group.

Chances are if a job is really good at solo it's going to be pretty powerful and will be able to hold its own in a group as well. It's been my experience the stigma against jobs that are good at solo not being good in groups is more a result of bias/misunderstanding and or a un-willingness of that group to accept anything less than perfect.

I went through this back in the old days when I played a PLD/WHM and was constantly derided as being a solo job that sucked in groups. I can't tell you the amount of insults and mockery I endured. However once I found a group of open-minded friends willing to accommodate my play-style we excelled, beat CoP and succeeded in sky. Something I was told I would never be able to do yet I proved every one of them wrong.

[Camiie]

You make an interesting point and I agree with it in spirit - but I feel all jobs already can contribute meaningfully to a group.

Chances are if a job is really good at solo it's going to be pretty powerful and will be able to hold its own in a group as well. It's been my experience the stigma against jobs that are good at solo not being good in groups is more a result of bias/misunderstanding and or a un-willingness of that group to accept anything less than perfect.

WAR/DNC with dual axes (in which case he's nerfing himself)

versus

BST/DNC with dual axes and the best DD pet available

Both using Ruinator. Both using essentially the same gear. I guarantee you that the WAR wins every time. Now compare the BST to a WAR going all out with GA and /SAM. The WAR wins by an even greater margin. The BST doesn't have the DPS tools that the WAR has and the pet doesn't make up the difference.

[Dale]

WAR/DNC with dual axes (in which case he's nerfing himself)

versus

BST/DNC with dual axes and the best DD pet available

Both using Ruinator. Both using essentially the same gear. I guarantee you that the WAR wins every time. Now compare the BST to a WAR going all out with GA and /SAM. The WAR wins by an even greater margin. The BST doesn't have the DPS tools that the WAR has and the pet doesn't make up the difference.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the WAR wins every time? Wins in what way?

If you are referring to damage, what does that matter? Just because a duel wielding warrior with a pair of axes can do more damage than duel wielding Beastmaster with a pair of axes doesn't mean the beastmaster doesn't contribute to a group. It still brings some offense to the group with the added benefit of a pet which can come in handy. For example: I've done a few AA fights where the beastmaster pet saved us from a wipe.

I don't understand why everything needs to be viewed in the context of who can do the most damage.

[Dale]

Only old content. That's the point, I don't care about being good at solo. Every job is good at solo now. There is literally nothing relevant a bst can solo that other jobs can't do better. But they are also the most likely job going out there with little/no haste.

But my Paladin really isn't good at general soloing. That's what I'm trying to get across. For example: when I'm running around doing coalition quests, colonization and lair reives, farming etc.... it's just pointless for me to ever use my Paladin for it because haste makes my RDM so much better at it. It may not be the only example out there, but I do think it's a relevant one. I even use my RDM when I go out farming items intended for my Paladin, which is kind ironic.

Haste generally is just very powerful. I know because I have been completely spoiled by haste 2 on my RDM and it's hard for me to live without it now lol. So I think the developers are trying to address a real issue here where jobs that have access to haste do enjoy a significant advantage over those who don't. So I think it's a smart design decision to try and increase the weapon skill power of these jobs. Because as an earlier post eluded to - one handed jobs tend to rely on auto attacks more for their damage and haste affects this in a big way.

I understand some of the points you and others make about this not being an answer to solve other problems and job balance in general. That's probably true. But regardless, I do think this is a real issue that needs some attention and I'm glad to see the developers are addressing it.

Hope that clears up what I'm trying to say.