This thread AGAIN, please, fix WK.

[Demon6324236]

So be happy then. What's the problem? You earned it. Something many others haven't yet.

What the hell does this have to do with what you originally said?! You said...

if 1 item can make such a big difference in power then you should be enjoying the event and work harder because the big reward is what makes it worth it at the end.

But guess what...

I am a dual wield job, I was forced to offhand an offhand weapon which was significantly weaker than both Bura and Hala due to this fact, which severely gimped my damage.

Which is the exact reason why it made such a large impact. If I were looking at my WAR, Bloodbath versus Ixtab, my damage would go up, yes, but not by more than maybe 5% or so, where as RDM went up by well over 20% of DMG simply because I got a new sword that didn't suck, which allowed me to move my other sword to my offhand, and increase my DMG a large amount. I have no idea what me having something others do not, or the fact I earned it, has to do with the large increase in my DMG which was what your original comment was about that I replied to.

Well I know you did earn all of that but seriously DJ and you have extreme power that many don't have so what's the problem? Many people in game don't come close to the power and impressive skills you got.

Perhaps I am just dense and its going right over my head or something, but really, what does this have to do with you originally saying something about all the hard work people put in all of these other events?

Don't twist the meaning of my words. The meaning of that example was. We have it way easier now than VW without endless quests, storylines, limitations compared to WR.

I did not mean to twist, it is how it comes off. You bring up you killed Qilin a bunch, got nothing, and that justifies how we are killing WKs a lot, and getting nothing, that is exactly how what you are saying sounds, please, explain how I am wrong in that respect. We have it easier than VW in some ways, and its much harder in others, all of which at some point have been explained to you over and over again in this very thread, the thread which has basically become a 30+ page argument with you about this topic. But let me just cover the differences real fast that make this harder.

1. VW took 18 People, this takes more than a hundred to do effectively.
2. VW had warps very close to the NMs, warps which required no server wide work or anything close, while WKs require you to have waypoints that must be built and require upkeep from the players to function, or else they randomly explode for no reason.
3. VW had procs, as well as temps, and atma, things which not only made the fight easier, but made the fight survivable for DDs, on top of freezing the NM making it do nothing for multiple seconds while you beat the hell out of it.
4. VW had weak adds, unlike a WK Reive, a PLD could literally supertank not only the NM, but the adds as well all in a VW fight if needed, in WKs, the NM alone requires a PLD, and the adds are not very weak, though I am not exactly sure if a decent PLD could hold them all, I doubt it.
5. VW had no repop time at all, not even a minute, or 10 minutes, nothing, WKs have a 3 hour repop.
6. VW had the entry fee of a single stone per fight, a stone which you got 1 of, for free, every few hours, every day, no matter if you were on or not. WKs require thousands upon thousands of Bayld, able to be easily gotten, but it takes time which you must work at it for, you have to specifically be trying to get Bayld, to get Bayld really, while your stones for VW replenish no matter what you do, or if you do anything at all.
7. VW gave you Cruor, not only did it give you a type of currency to buy something, but it was from an entire different event as well! WKs only give you Experience Points, which by the way, lol experience points, I get a max of 25k Experience for a Yumcax, but get 20k Experience from a 3 minute Qilin, the balance is strong with this one. But continuing, the only currency reward you get from WKs, is the same exact currency you used to buy the KI to fight the WK!
8. I'm tired of this list, probably more I could add, but really, I think my point is proven, isn't it?

Well DJ yeah 5 months. Given that it took time to gain other gear, explore the new expansion, figure out what to do and how to play the event. That's much more faster than previous content.

Yes well gear and weapons are being outdated much faster than previous content as well now aren't they? So yeah, 5 months, not seeming to bad to me anymore.

Same thing happened when I got all the ABJ I didn't need from Morta. Doesn't mean I put that on my quit list. I still do Morta when I see a shout. At least I have reasons to continue playing the event with others. I'd hate to be the guy in town sitting all day doing nothing again.

Morta drops what again? Oh yeah, it drops good ol Dross & Cinder, money! Large money! Those are like 2M a piece for Cinder, 1M a piece for Dross, or something like that right? So yeah, you have a reason to keep going anyways, besides cruor.

Doesn't matter how much power you have. If you finish getting everything, you come to the same conclusion. Do I repeat this event again? Or do I sit and do nothing?

Has nothing to do with power, I would not do a non-rewarding event any more than I would do a rewarding event I already have everything from. In the end, I have to find some sort of reward in it, to keep going to do it. Do I join VW anymore? No, the amount of boredom I find it in outweighs the fun I have and the rewards I potentially gain from most NMs, the few who I can get something from, it depends at times, sometimes I go, others I don't.

[Daemon]

You are still deviating from the points I made. I agree WR needs something better. I just don't agree plasm is it. Did you read that or did that go over your head? SE already gives us Bayld. Why do they need to add plasm?

Yeah riftcinder, quest item for Emp.

Where did I ever disagree WR should never implement quest items or money drops?

I just don't agree plasm is a good reward. That's all.

Why can't you suggest something else other than plasm is my question?

[Demon6324236]

Really read my replies and stop skimming through to the details you want to throw in my face and debate with me on.

I read every single post you post when I am actually talking to you, and a few before I ever start to jump in on a conversation(admittedly not always all of them, no one in their right mind would read all 36 pages just so they can jump in on this...). But, while you say you agree, WKs are boring to wasted endless hours for trash drops, you also say, don't give us a 100% chance at something valuable we don't have, which, in effect, is doing the opposite, unless you come up with something of equal value which is a reward enough to entice people to come, and then not be angry or disappointed when they get it instead. The thing about having it as a reward for after you get your drops to keep coming back, is that it never 'cockblocks' the items you do want, the thing about having it as an item that drops while not allowing 100% chances at something that is a R/EX drop from the NM, does have that chance, and can still cause great annoyance.

Now, while you accuse me of not reading your replies, and telling me to stop skimming, notice, I reply to almost every bit of your posts segment by segment in order to address each part clearly, as to avoid confusion. I admit, I cut out some parts, mostly because they seem like they would get a repeat response, but I do actually cut some of it out. I assure you I read it all, and reply to it all in some form, even if not directly. What I must say you do though, is you forget your original response to something I am replying to, and then reply with something that makes no sense when put together with your original comment of which I replied to. I am not sure if you mean to do it, but it does seem to happen, and I pointed it out before.

[Daemon]

I read every single post you post when I am actually talking to you, and a few before I ever start to jump in on a conversation(admittedly not always all of them, no one in their right mind would read all 36 pages just so they can jump in on this...). But, while you say you agree, WKs are boring to wasted endless hours for trash drops, you also say, don't give us a 100% chance at something valuable we don't have, which, in effect, is doing the opposite, unless you come up with something of equal value which is a reward enough to entice people to come, and then not be angry or disappointed when they get it instead. The thing about having it as a reward for after you get your drops to keep coming back, is that it never 'cockblocks' the items you do want, the thing about having it as an item that drops while not allowing 100% chances at something that is a R/EX drop from the NM, does have that chance, and can still cause great annoyance.

Now, while you accuse me of not reading your replies, and telling me to stop skimming, notice, I reply to almost every bit of your posts segment by segment in order to address each part clearly, as to avoid confusion. I admit, I cut out some parts, mostly because they seem like they would get a repeat response, but I do actually cut some of it out. I assure you I read it all, and reply to it all in some form, even if not directly. What I must say you do though, is you forget your original response to something I am replying to, and then reply with something that makes no sense when put together with your original comment of which I replied to. I am not sure if you mean to do it, but it does seem to happen, and I pointed it out before.

Did you even read my idea?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...tem#post464500

Did I not agree that WR needs something better for rewards? Because the only thing I disagreed was Plasm and Guarantees rare drop. Now earning through a point system or any other example related was my suggestion.

Not things that will kill a certain area of the game, speed up progression faster such as Delve etc.

If that was the case then why Increasing Plasm when SE could lower the cost of Delve gear and lower the amount required to upgrade ranks? That would be much more simple than earning endless amounts of plasm.

Only to someday let it sit for nothing like how my Kufrieds corundum and Voidwatch stones are piling up.

[Demon6324236]

Not things that will kill a certain area of the game, speed up progression faster such as Delve etc.

For the love of... I am tired of explaining how this would not kill anything...

[detlef]

Why can't you suggest something else other than plasm is my question?

Now you're the one who didn't read everything. Here are a couple of other ideas that have been brought up and a couple I’ve added:

1. Make Order Up repeatable.
2. Make the drop rate of all Naakuals equal. If there are 6 drops, each should have a 1/6 chance of dropping.
3. Two drops slots: one for armor/weapons and one for accessories and JSE capes. This would effectively give you a 25% chance of getting the weapon/armor you want.
4. Have the game reroll once if an item you already have loads (We have COR relic +2 feet which shows that the game can do this). If you still get the grip, oh well.
5. Add some sort of additional drop that provides enough incentive to join even if someone is not specifically after the Naakual's drops. Plasm has been suggested as an example.
6. Make the fight more enjoyable so players do not avoid the event out of hatred. There are tons of good suggestions in the Battle Content forum but here are a few:
a. Ease up on the alliance hate so that repeated wipes aren't commonplace.
b. Adjust mob roaming within the battlefield area to provide for safer recovery.
c. Make colonization rate affect Naakuals in a way other than damage taken.
d. Make it easier for non-melee and non-WHM to earn bayld during the fight to encourage players to bring support jobs.

[Daemon]

For the love of... I am tired of explaining how this would not kill anything...

Well DJ what happens when people buy all Delve gear? Max upgrade everything? Answer that for me.

And as for plasm as a reward?

You already gain Bayld as a reward in WR. Why add Bayld AND plasm? I just don't see that as reasonable. I don't even see that happening. That's why I don't agree.

Bayld is suppose to be the reason to enjoy the event is how i see why the Devs added it to begin with. Plasm was added to Megaboss in Delve as a huge reward to make it worth the effort.

Now maybe adjusting the amount of Bayld for defeating a Nakuul to be higher would be a reasonable suggestion from my point of view but taking a reward from another event adding it to WR is not my idea of a good solution.

Adding synthesis materials or other items i agree would be good too. I never disagreed on that.

[Daemon]

Now you're the one who didn't read everything. Here are a couple of other ideas that have been brought up and a couple I’ve added:

1. Make Order Up repeatable.
2. Make the drop rate of all Naakuals equal. If there are 6 drops, each should have a 1/6 chance of dropping.
3. Two drops slots: one for armor/weapons and one for accessories and JSE capes. This would effectively give you a 25% chance of getting the weapon/armor you want.
4. Have the game reroll once if an item you already have loads (We have COR relic +2 feet which shows that the game can do this). If you still get the grip, oh well.
5. Add some sort of additional drop that provides enough incentive to join even if someone is not specifically after the Naakual's drops. Plasm has been suggested as an example.
6. Make the fight more enjoyable so players do not avoid the event out of hatred. There are tons of good suggestions in the Battle Content forum but here are a few:
a. Ease up on the alliance hate so that repeated wipes aren't commonplace.
b. Adjust mob roaming within the battlefield area to provide for safer recovery.
c. Make colonization rate affect Naakuals in a way other than damage taken.
d. Make it easier for non-melee and non-WHM to earn bayld during the fight to encourage players to bring support jobs.

No I just think we are taking this conversation to an endless argument all because I disagreed with 2 ideas. Plasm and guaranteed drop.

[Daemon]

Why do we need all these crappy forms of alternate currency?

Forgot to mention. It's better to start everyone at 0, on a new currency out of fairness. Otherwise if it was 1 currency, those who have more will surpass everyone who has less. Which will be another reason to bring up elitist arguments. Makes it easier for the DEVs to calculate estimates too.

[Demon6324236]

You are still deviating from the points I made. I agree WR needs something better. I just don't agree plasm is it. Did you read that or did that go over your head? SE already gives us Bayld. Why do they need to add plasm?

Simple answer, its more of a refund than a reward in all honesty since you pay Bayld to enter, and leave with less Bayld than you paid, as a reward. Its not as though you go in by paying 25k or 50k but then walk out having earned 80k while inside of the WK Reive.

Longer Answer...

How much is Bayld worth?
If you transfer it into Gil...
As I type this, the Cirdas Head is bouncing between 10 and 60k, seeing as they are fairly common, I assume the people paying 60k are simply stupid, and the real pricing right now is around 10k. 10k for legs, and about 5k for a torso. This is the cost of a Skirmish set. Assuming I bring 6 people, I pay 25k, I go out, I make 30k Bayld, that puts the worth of Bayld at roughly .83~ Gil per Bayld. So, if you go out and do a WK Reive, you are being rewarded with roughly 20,833~ Gil worth of Bayld, so long as you cap your Evaluations.

Now if you look at Plasm, it gets a little more complex.
Airlixir NQs are 12k, they are worth 500 Plasm at a NPC. Total Gil worth, 24 Gil/Plasm.
Airlixir NQs x12 are 140k, they are worth 6000 Plasm total at a NPC. Total Gil worth, 23.3~/Plasm
Air+1 are 70k, they are worth 2500 Plasm at a NPC. Total Gil worth, 28 Gil/Plasm
Air+1 x12 are 590k, they are worth 30000 Plasm total at a NPC. Total Gil worth, 19.6~/Plasm
Air +2 are 1.6M, they are worth 100000 Plasm at a NPC. Total Gil worth, 16/Plasm

If you take the best money maker, Air+1s, a 25k Plasm reward from a WK Reive would hold 700k value as it stands right now on Phoenix. While 25k Bayld holds that amazing 20,833~ Gil worth on Phoenix if you remember right. Even if you go by the worst rate, +2s, you would have to do a grand total of 4 WKs to get that much Plasm, in that time your Bayld will be worth an amazing 83,333~ Gil, but your Plasm would be worth 1.6 Million Gil.

Also, keep in mind, you can spend Plasm on items to sell, in this case, all of the Airlixir I mentioned, however, you can not spend Bayld on Skirmish parts, or anything else to sell for Gil really, as such, you can buy Bayld in a way, but you can not sell it, while you can sell your Plasm in a way, this, making it more rewarding. Perhaps this is why Plasm seems more appealing as a reward. I know its a little of a long way to say it, and there are more reasons too, like how not everyone can get into Plasm farms and all that, but really, this is a contributing factor as well I think.

Yeah riftcinder, quest item for Emp.

I know what Riftcinder is, that is why I know it is expensive, and why it is expensive in the first place.

Where did I ever disagree WR should never implement quest items or money drops?

I just don't agree plasm is a good reward. That's all.

Why can't you suggest something else other than plasm is my question?

How many times do I have to say Delve Boss Craft items before you read that I am typing it? I have said it at least 5 times in this thread alone I am sure, not counting many others... Very different idea than Plasm...