This thread AGAIN, please, fix WK.

[Daemon]

If you can't handle debating with someone like me who tries to look at the glass from many angles than my own, then why are you here debating to begin with?

[Daemon]

I can relate to DEV team. How?

I stand in front of crowds from 300-500 people per night at my weekly residencies as DJ, who come to hear me play music. Over 2,000+ at big parties like Gay pride.

And the crowd is always different each day.

Having to read body language and observe the crowds reaction every second of the night thinking which Genre, Tempo, music to play.

My job is hard because I have to be a mind reader and play what I think will make the most people happy. And it's impossible to make everyone happy.

In the house music scene, we have hits, instrumentals, dubs, different versions.

And yes we do play certain tracks to "Stall" the crowd and pace out the top anthems in our sets because it doesn't make sense to play every single hit back to back.

As a DJ our performance isn't strictly about instant results, but also results that are seen over the course of 6 months to a year.

Instant results bring instant crowds who come and go as they please, expect us to play something off their cellphone.

A crowd we build results over the course of time is the type of crowd that stays and if they leave, they will go to other places and see the quality is not as good and come back.

What I do is very much similar to what a DEV team does. Without the computer programming, limitations, hardcore obstacles, other people in a company breathing down my back telling me what to do.

I'm sure Matsui would love to do everything you want but behind the scenes, it doesn't work that way.

If SE is paying him to do things, I'm sure he is being paid to do exactly what they tell him.

Meaning every change he does has to go through several other people through meetings, and careful planning. He can't just sit in front of the computer and change this or that for you because you want him to.

[Demon6324236]

Honestly I feel worse for Yoshi, why? Simple, because I do not play FFXIV, but from what I have been told both about the original FFXIV and AAR, he seems to work very hard on the game, he takes in a lot of feedback, and tries to improve it to the best of his ability. He took on a project where he had to make a game which got horrible reviews and was widely accepted as the worst mistake in company history, and had to deal with the pressure of being expected to turn that around and make it a great game. To have anyone complaining at you after that, I would have to think would have an impact on a person , after all, again, a lot of pressure on you to get things right after the epic fail of the original. So in his case, I can be a bit more understanding, and I would be much more forgiving.

Now, in the case of Matsui, it is the other way around. FFXI had issues before Matsui ever came in, and I think before SoA was out he really did improve the game quite a bit with the limited amount of work he could put into it while working on everything SoA would bring. However, SoA did cause many people to leave, more are leaving now because of FFXIV. Unlike Yoshi, who took on a project to recreate a MMO, Matsui took on the role of producer for a game that had been going for over a decade. All Matsui had to do to make us happy was listen to feedback, change very little in how the game worked in terms of most things, but do as we asked in other cases. For instance, we all hated VW because of its drop system, so, all he had to do to fix that event would be to make the drop rates better, and keep that kind of thing in mind for the future, no more .1% drop rates on hard/high level NMs, easy enough. But, he failed to do that, just like here he is failing to make WKs enjoyable, fun battles, or make them faster, or make the drops better, all of which seem easy to me, lower the WKs level/HP/DMG/Kickassitude, and make it so you always get 1 drop that is R/EX, if you have them all, you have a chance at rare craft items like Oru Ingots and other rare VW/Legion only craft items, or Delve Boss Craft items.

In the end, I am less forgiving of Matsui because when he stepped in, the game wasn't doing great or amazing, but it was fine for the most part, since SoA released, which I assume he heavily influenced, it has seemingly gone to hell. On the other hand, Yoshi stepping into a game which was in hell, and pulling it up out of the hell it was in by turning it into a good game, that I understand puts stress on a person, breaking down because of a few complaints may seem weak to some, but in all honesty, with the stress he's been under, I can understand why he would. They are both in very different situations to me, and so, while I can feel somewhat bad for Yoshi, and I can also understand his breaking down, I can not say the same for Matsui. I still support Matsui, but I also feel at the same time he makes mistakes often now with SoA, and he needs to listen to feedback more now than ever before from both sides of the community or it will only shrink faster & faster.

[Daemon]

Honestly I feel worse for Yoshi, why? Simple, because I do not play FFXIV, but from what I have been told both about the original FFXIV and AAR, he seems to work very hard on the game, he takes in a lot of feedback, and tries to improve it to the best of his ability. He took on a project where he had to make a game which got horrible reviews and was widely accepted as the worst mistake in company history, and had to deal with the pressure of being expected to turn that around and make it a great game. To have anyone complaining at you after that, I would have to think would have an impact on a person , after all, again, a lot of pressure on you to get things right after the epic fail of the original. So in his case, I can be a bit more understanding, and I would be much more forgiving.

Now, in the case of Matsui, it is the other way around. FFXI had issues before Matsui ever came in, and I think before SoA was out he really did improve the game quite a bit with the limited amount of work he could put into it while working on everything SoA would bring. However, SoA did cause many people to leave, more are leaving now because of FFXIV. Unlike Yoshi, who took on a project to recreate a MMO, Matsui took on the role of producer for a game that had been going for over a decade. All Matsui had to do to make us happy was listen to feedback, change very little in how the game worked in terms of most things, but do as we asked in other cases. For instance, we all hated VW because of its drop system, so, all he had to do to fix that event would be to make the drop rates better, and keep that kind of thing in mind for the future, no more .1% drop rates on hard/high level NMs, easy enough. But, he failed to do that, just like here he is failing to make WKs enjoyable, fun battles, or make them faster, or make the drops better, all of which seem easy to me, lower the WKs level/HP/DMG/Kickassitude, and make it so you always get 1 drop that is R/EX, if you have them all, you have a chance at rare craft items like Oru Ingots and other rare VW/Legion only craft items, or Delve Boss Craft items.

In the end, I am less forgiving of Matsui because when he stepped in, the game wasn't doing great or amazing, but it was fine for the most part, since SoA released, which I assume he heavily influenced, it has seemingly gone to hell. On the other hand, Yoshi stepping into a game which was in hell, and pulling it up out of the hell it was in by turning it into a good game, that I understand puts stress on a person, breaking down because of a few complaints may seem weak to some, but in all honesty, with the stress he's been under, I can understand why he would. They are both in very different situations to me, and so, while I can feel somewhat bad for Yoshi, and I can also understand his breaking down, I can not say the same for Matsui. I still support Matsui, but I also feel at the same time he makes mistakes often now with SoA, and he needs to listen to feedback more now than ever before from both sides of the community or it will only shrink faster & faster.

The way I see it. Yoshi P had to look at the failure, rebuild and add on top of the content already there. Towns look the same to me. Although I haven't been on much to give a better analysis. At least Yoshi P doesn't have such hardcore limitations and obstacles preventing him from making ideas and fixes happen.

Then again I see Matsui comes to XI, wants to do so many things but he can't. He has too many obstacles, limits that won't let him do what he wants without screwing up the gameplay.

[Demon6324236]

Then again I see Matsui comes to XI, wants to do so many things but he can't. He has too many obstacles, limits that won't let him do what he wants without screwing up the gameplay.

He wastes opportunities even when he breaks these limits though, he broke some of those limits, like for instance, he broke the limits of how many stats could be on a piece of gear, that's how they added all of those stats to Adoulin gear. The problem is, it was a wasted opportunity, he could have fixed so many inventory issues with this. He could have made pieces of gear with all of the stats we use on the same piece. Like for instance, he could have made a Hat with Fast Cast+10%, MAB+10, STR/DEX/VIT/AGI+10 INT/MND/CHR+15 CurePot+10% Haste+8% & Magic Accuracy +15. That would be a Hat which would fill over half my needs for RDM on a head piece... Instead, he implemented an item level system so he had to add a bunch of other stats like MEVA, EVA, and so on to it so it fit the level attached to the level, and at the same time outdated all other gear in the game basically without fixing the inventory issue, and instead, making it worse.

[detlef]

It's actually a little depressing on Valefor. We're around 700 people max at NA primetime and there *should* be a lot of activity. But there isn't. People shout for 1-5 + Tojil runs but I'm pretty sure the vast majority of them shout for a long time and fail to clear the zone. Meanwhile, plasm farming runs that would probably have lower standards than a mega boss clear have pretty much died out. There are some NA WKR shouts, but I just described the 13 hour Yumcax and Achuka/Tchakka are also pretty bad right now due to low colonization rates. I think people just don't have anything to do right now.

[OmnysValefor]

Of that 700, an immeasurable number are afk. Literally immeasurable because there's no way to know.

It's pretty depressing.

Daemon I respect your bumps though I often disagree with you. I honestly feel like your opinion cannot be swayed.

My opinion on this can't be swayed by other players either. There's one group who can sway it, but they're not responding. The dev team should start talking to us.

Man, we're 45 pages into this and we still don't even have a nod.

If that's not a clue, I don't know how to be more clear.

My reply in his thank you thread, and all my replies following, were respectful but candid and that's over a week old. Clearly, they don't really listen. They just don't man.

If they really wanted to show us they listen, they would have picked a few threads in that letter and replied, not to some japanese translation bearing similarity to something we've said, but to something we've actually said. That thank you thread was the last thread that deserved a spotlight, given everything going on.

I'm idle in game while I'm playing XIV.

[Daemon]

Ok but do you guys honestly think making dratstic changes would keep people here regardless that FFXIV was released? To me it would be a waste of time to build a town if you know the hurricane is coming.

Hurricane has arrived. Damage has been done. Only makes sense to wait it out and see the results before making anymore major changes. I mean I already see so many posts describing the aftermath of FFXI since 14 launched.

To me I think after the first month, several players will come to the conclusion of either staying or coming back to FFXI. Then again some people might think its not for them.

Others might come back because they already dedicated many years and like this game better.

You should already know by now that if the DEVs did not give you what you are complaining about in the amount of time you are presenting your ideas and feedback, then maybe there are reasons that they don't tell you as to why they don't address them.

I just think its pretty crappy trying to be God without having the power to allow them to play the part.

PS2 sux! It's 11 year old technology with the ram less than 3-5 times lower than today's smart phones.


You can't install software or games without having the basic requirements first. Otherwise the game just won't work.

On the flip side...

DEVs cannot adjust and implement things that go past PS2 limits. I see some complaints asking DEVs to do this, do that as if they have unlimited abilities and no obstacles.

I've worked with bosses that require me to go through manager 1, then manager 2, then head manager 3 only to wait for the response to return to me after going through all 3.

People will jump on the next big thing regardless. No matter how much you complain and Shiz talk to death over how you think they should do their job better and how you would do the job better than them.

I've learned in life sometimes its easy to think this way but once you are the one doing the work, you realize its not as easy as people think it is.

So many people in congress sit and make multi million dollar salaries to say no when people ask for things like gay marriage and equality.

While they play God and vote to say YES and NO. They make these decisions for the overall community and not just for that one specific group that think its unfair.

While its easy to say yeah make Drugs legal, then maybe dealers won't smuggle it! No more arresting people!

It all sounds great yeah! But sometimes decisions have its reasons.

And that's how I see so many complaints on these forums. You demand things you think its unfair. But not considering looking at the glass from all angles but rather look at it from the side your staring at.

[Demon6324236]

Ok but do you guys honestly think making dratstic changes would keep people here regardless that FFXIV was released? To me it would be a waste of time to build a town if you know the hurricane is coming.

No, I do not, and this is the biggest reason why everything done in SoA has been a complete mistake. He made drastic changes which only made people leave, not stay. The hurricane only did more damage because he did those changes, had he kept things how they were and only improved upon them rather than doing it as he did, the game would be in better shape. I agree its stupid to build a town when a hurricane is coming that will possibly destroy it, but its equally as stupid to light it on fire and start burning it down before the hurricane arrives in the first place, which is akin to what he did.

That being said...

Hurricane has arrived. Damage has been done. Only makes sense to wait it out and see the results before making anymore major changes. I mean I already see so many posts describing the aftermath of FFXI since 14 launched.

Since major changes were made already, there is no point in changing them back now I guess, but rather, they need to make it better. We see a slope going very badly, new skirmish gear is easier to get than Delve ever was, or will be, I can literally triple box Skirmish Yorcia if I want because a BLM, SCH, or RDM, with a decent nuking staff, can 1 shot every single mob. Delve you at least had challenging NMs, and the NQ mobs inside were 5~10 times harder than the Yorcia mobs, no joke, I nuke them for about 10~20% with a T4, while I 1shot every single Yorcia mob with a T4, the only difference in Yorcia's favor is the resist rates in Yorcia are a little more harsh, that's it. The gear from Yorcia is in many ways just as good or better than the gear from Delve, so much so I think most Delve gear, even at 15, is out of date. Especially when you get into the augments, where every DD piece can get +2 Double Attack, putting its overall stats above Delve easily for TPing & sometimes WSing, or nuking pieces with +20~30 MAB on them, making even T2s capable of 1shotting Yorcia mobs.

If they clean up this mess and create a more sensical path with the levels on gear actually following the power of the gear, it would do a lot of good. Changing it back wont do much, those who hated it already left for the most part. They need to clean it up a bit, make it better, and then make some things like WKs suck less. If they can do that, they can keep what players they have left potentially.

To me I think after the first month, several players will come to the conclusion of either staying or coming back to FFXI. Then again some people might think its not for them.

By that same token, think of the people who will see what FFXI is like for a month without some of their friends around, who might leave for FFXIV, or leave SE MMOs completely. I know I did not lose a ton of friends to it, you are one, but not one of many. However I know that is not the same for all.

You should already know by now that if the DEVs did not give you what you are complaining about in the amount of time you are presenting your ideas and feedback, then maybe there are reasons that they don't tell you as to why they don't address them.

In some cases, I understand this, in others, I do not. In the case of WKs, its angering many players, causing some to lose hope, others may even quit, even I am on the edge of quitting because I am tired of the BS in this game from things like WKs and SE's refusal to fix them. I also hate their refusal to answer questions, like my thread about unlocking Relic WSs, where I have no reply. Not a highly popular thread, but a single simple question which should be easy for them to answer.

I just think its pretty crappy trying to be God without having the power to allow them to play the part.

Even in game design where you play god and create worlds, in my opinion, the best form of art there is, there are players, customers, and you need to cater to them as much as your own artistic values and ideals.

PS2 sux! It's 11 year old technology with the ram less than 3-5 times lower than today's smart phones.


You can't install software or games without having the basic requirements first. Otherwise the game just won't work.

On the flip side...

DEVs cannot adjust and implement things that go past PS2 limits. I see some complaints asking DEVs to do this, do that as if they have unlimited abilities and no obstacles.

This is why many people ask them to simply cut the PS2 out of the equation. Adoulin can not be played on a non-JP PS2 for instance, why not remove PS2 from things completely? Honestly, if your without a PC which can run FFXI at this point but still can afford FFXI on your PS2, I think you need to save that money up, a PC will do much more for you. There are many ways around having to use a keyboard and mouse too, many people play on PC with controllers, and there are adaptors for PCs which work with PS2 controllers. In the end, another piece of feedback gone without being listened to, or at least, carried out.

I've learned in life sometimes its easy to think this way but once you are the one doing the work, you realize its not as easy as people think it is.

I am sure they can not snap their finger to make it happen. At the same time, I know its their job to please the customers, not chase them away, their job involves working on the game, no matter how easy or hard it is. So in the end, I can not expect the impossible, but I also can not forgive ignorance toward certain things. I can not say how easy or hard it is personally to fix some of the larger issues in this game, but apparently, some of them were fixed by players faster than by the devs themselves, as shown by the excellent work of Windower and the team working on it, who provided many UI benefits for the PC gamers over the years long before SE's new UI was even a thought in their head, let alone its yet to be released still on the actual servers.

So many people in congress sit and make multi million dollar salaries to say no when people ask for things like gay marriage and equality.

While they play God and vote to say YES and NO. They make these decisions for the overall community and not just for that one specific group that think its unfair.

Real life & this game are far from the same. A law effects many people in the real world and their real life, thought must go into that unlike anything in a game.

And that's how I see so many complaints on these forums. You demand things you think its unfair. But not considering looking at the glass from all angles but rather look at it from the side your staring at.

I look only from the views I know, I do not pretend I know how things are from every perspective, I am not foolish enough to think I understand it all. At the same time, I use what I do know to form my posts and opinions on things, and then post my thoughts on it all. I assure you, I know their job is not snapping their fingers, its hard work, but I also know some of what we ask for can not possibly be as hard as they claim. UI adjustments can not be as hard as they claim, players have done it before, and continue to. Changes to drop rates can not be hard, yet, they change almost none of them, ever, at all. These are not hard tasks it seems, yet, nothing from them most of the time.

[OmnysValefor]

Ok but do you guys honestly think making dratstic changes would keep people here regardless that FFXIV was released? To me it would be a waste of time to build a town if you know the hurricane is coming.

Drastic changes sent people away. For at least my clique of friends, it wasn't how appealing FFXIV was, it was how unappealing FFXI had become.

There have always been people, in every mmo, who stay for their friends, just like people in real life endure crap so that they can stay near friends. You might dislike a friend's girlfriend, but you still go out to dinner with them, because you like him.

Hurricane has arrived. Damage has been done. Only makes sense to wait it out and see the results before making anymore major changes. I mean I already see so many posts describing the aftermath of FFXI since 14 launched.

No, believe it or not, the first thing you do is start cleaning up the mess, checking for survivors (the analogous parallel would be people still playing, I suppose), and rebuilding. When a disaster hits, you don't wait to see what else is going to happen.

You should already know by now that if the DEVs did not give you what you are complaining about in the amount of time you are presenting your ideas and feedback, then maybe there are reasons that they don't tell you as to why they don't address them.

Edit (forgot to reply to this): I don't doubt they have reasons, I don't understand why we can't know them. What reason is so grand that it justifies people unsubscribing as they are.

[...]

DEVs cannot adjust and implement things that go past PS2 limits. I see some complaints asking DEVs to do this, do that as if they have unlimited abilities and no obstacles.

If they dumped PS2, so that those players were no longer a concern--Some changes they can't make because of things in the deeper architecture of the game, it's just unrealistic. Other things, they simply don't change because the PS2 can't reliably do it without locking up.

...

And that's how I see so many complaints on these forums. You demand things you think its unfair. But not considering looking at the glass from all angles but rather look at it from the side your staring at.

I need you to tell me, since you have the perspective, about fixing the droprate from WKR. Again, they think getting a log after 5 hours is cute, or coy, but it simply isn't. Nobody laughs merrily with all their friends as they go list the log on the AH for 2k.