The Problem with Red Mage . . .

[saevel]

Your argument is one of false dichotomy. It is not mage OR melee, it's both. A Red Mage without melee capability is called a Scholar. If you don't believe me go check their spell lists, everything *mage* RDM can do a SCH can do better.

I've made several posts about this, basically boils down to "fix all the above" as Red Mage should function as a party support, as magic damage or as a melee job. It shouldn't be the best in any of those categories, otherwise it would be broken. Problem now is that it's so bad in all those categories that there is absolutely no reason to ever bring a RDM to anything. A result of SE over-buffing SCH and BLU while ignoring RDM.

[Demon6324236]

Your argument is one of false dichotomy. It is not mage OR melee, it's both. A Red Mage without melee capability is called a Scholar. If you don't believe me go check their spell lists, everything *mage* RDM can do a SCH can do better.

I've made several posts about this, basically boils down to "fix all the above" as Red Mage should function as a party support, as magic damage or as a melee job. It shouldn't be the best in any of those categories, otherwise it would be broken. Problem now is that it's so bad in all those categories that there is absolutely no reason to ever bring a RDM to anything. A result of SE over-buffing SCH and BLU while ignoring RDM.

Completely correct. People in both the melee & magic sides of RDM think it can only do 1 for some reason when the job is meant to do both things. The problem is simply that SE fails to give RDM both sides of it, for instance the Teal & Pink gear, BLU was on both because it is melee & it is mage, however RDM was left on Teal alone where as it should have been on both as well. The same goes to alot of other gear of the same nature. Something that does seem like a step in the right direction is Temper & Gain-STR/DEX however if you look at RDM traits and abilities we are still restricted to mage powers only. RDM should have more power on its magic side, that I will agreed on quite a bit as our nukes are quite bad due to the loss of extra tiers of MAB and no use for T5 spells. Cures we can do well, but we have no powerful regen or native buffs to our cures like SCH or WHM do, honestly I think in curing RDM does just fine, but there is room for improvement. Melee we have no traits, at most we have Shield Mastery which has only come in the past few levels and is more a defensive tool than a melee tool. Both things should be improved because RDM is not only melee or only mage, it is both in 1, we just argue within ourselves which doesn't help SE make the right choices, partly why our Emp gear ended up as purely mage gear I think.

[Tamarsamar]

Your argument is one of false dichotomy. It is not mage OR melee, it's both. A Red Mage without melee capability is called a Scholar. If you don't believe me go check their spell lists, everything *mage* RDM can do a SCH can do better.

Not my false dichotomy. The point of the original post was that the Red Mage community as a whole was apparently split into simultaneously wanting and not wanting two different sets of fixes; a collective false dichotomy.

Judging from the initial response to this thread, though, it seems that I was partially mistaken.

[ManaKing]

Not my false dichotomy. The point of the original post was that the Red Mage community as a whole was apparently split into simultaneously wanting and not wanting two different sets of fixes; a collective false dichotomy.

Judging from the initial response to this thread, though, it seems that I was partially mistaken.

It does seem like that from the outside, but anyone that still plays RDM or continues to have interest in it has similar opinions. We give idea after idea because we hope one will stick and not be rolled into DNC or RNF or SCH....or GEO....or FML....

We all agree we are on the shallow side of the pools in multiple categories:

• Haste Gear for DDing
• WS gear
• WSs
• Useful Enfeebles
• Job Traits for melee
• Job Abilities for magic (double cast where?)

None of us think that we need giant buffs. Just enough to put us back in the game. Compare BLU to RDM. We want to be somewhere closer to that. We are currently 100% perspiration and 0% dev team inspiration. We don't need free rides, but SE has given out enough of them already that it seems insulting that we don't even get a fair shake at the buff tree that so many jobs suckle upon.