No Timed Pop Notorious Monsters In New Expansion

[saevel]

Ok lets get something clear.

There are no, and never were any, "Hard NMs".

There were only ignorant and uninformed players who used faulty strategies. Eventually players wised up and came up with better strategies. Those better strategies took on the KISS approach of making fights as simple and straight forward as possible, thus maximizing the chance of defeating the NM.

You people are referring tor a FFXI that never existed. Only in your rose tinted memories does such a game exist and only because you've chosen to forget the actual facts surrounding it and only remember the moment when you figured out how to kill it.

DL was "really hard", then he become a joke. Nidhogg was "really hard", then he became a joke. Kirin was "really hard / long", then he became a joke. KB was "wtf hard", then he became a joke. Tiamatt was "ridiculously hard", then she became a joke. Vrtra was the only one that stayed "hard" and only due to the adds and monsters in the room. Bring enough people to handle those and it's much easier then Tiamatt.

I can't remember a single event @75 that remained hard once we figured out an easy strategy. This game doesn't have the mechanics implemented to make any sort of fight "really hard", its just one big game of dice rolling with your stats vs the monsters stats. The fights themselves were straightforward tank and spanks, nothing more.

Thus "World HNM" are not hard, never were hard, and never will be hard. The only thing special about them is they allowed one group of people willing to pay $2000 ~ $4000 USD for a packet bot to have exclusive gear. They were so bad that tvtroupes even made a special troupe about them "The Ridill".

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...Main.TheRidill

People who want world spawned NMs really want exclusive loot that they can show off. Their wanting drama and conflict amongst the player base. They are the worst form of troll.

[Phogg]

The game is less dramatic now? You're kidding right? You must not see people cry about emps, or how they wiped and their mob was taken, or how they're stupid and popped an HNM attacked something else, it goes yellow and it gets taken. The game still has drama, probably not as much, but it's still drama filled. Sit in PJ long enough and you'll see someone crying about something. People don't like HNMs because only one group of people get to fight it once per day. They want to be spoon fed their drops by a proc system and when that doesn't work for them they cry enough until even that system is weakened by trading clusters.
The picture I posted earlier pretty much sums up how FFXI was, centered around people who played more than 1 hour a day, and enjoyed the competition of others with the claiming system (yes there were flaws but what system doesn't?). Instead it's now centered around people who have a preschool mentality and think that the would should be equal and fair for everyone, and drops should literally just fall into your lap.
Take Nyzul and Legion for example people are complaining that they are too hard and should be weakened so that the everyday causal can go in screw up 100x and still get the win. They cry hacks if content is hard and others succeed at it, but that's not always the case. A majority of the time people just flat out suck and don't want to admit it. Face it, regardless if there is HNM or not, whatever content does come out people will complain that others are succeeding more, the content is too hard, and people MUST be using hacks to beat it.
Yes, most of the player base is most likely casual players now, but that isn't an excuse to exclude a decent amount of the player base. We've already said that we don't mind if the drops from HNM also drop from a mob like Odin, yet for some of you this still isn't enough. You hate HNM so much that you don't want them to be in the game even for people who want to do them. If the drops come from another source, what's there to complain about?

Sorry but your arguments are logically fallacious. There is no similarity between nyzul isle, something any group can do at any time and any day they wish (fail or succeed) and timed HNMs. No one is (or should be) arguing that content should be easy, ie nerfing nyzul difficulty. This is about arbitrary pop timers, which whether you are inclined to believe so or not, have no bearing or relevance on anyone's level of skill.

I managed to claim behemoth against 40 people in the dominion back in the day with charm as a beastmaster. Do I think I'm super awesome because I did so? No, I just got lucky. Luck has nothing to do with challenge/skill/etc. Timed NMs where one person/group gets the fortune of claiming is just a stupid archaic system.

Let the challenge be in the battle, where it should be. Not whether or not you are fortunate enough to even manage to engage in said battle due to an abundance of luck or a cadre or people with time enough to spend sitting idle in a game until it pops. There is really no way to overstate how little that has to do with any form or manner of skill, and how kind of sad it is to think so.

[Habu]

Sorry but your arguments are logically fallacious. There is no similarity between nyzul isle, something any group can do at any time and any day they wish (fail or succeed) and timed HNMs. No one is (or should be) arguing that content should be easy, ie nerfing nyzul difficulty. This is about arbitrary pop timers, which whether you are inclined to believe so or not, have no bearing or relevance on anyone's level of skill.

I managed to claim behemoth against 40 people in the dominion back in the day with charm as a beastmaster. Do I think I'm super awesome because I did so? No, I just got lucky. Luck has nothing to do with challenge/skill/etc. Timed NMs where one person/group gets the fortune of claiming is just a stupid archaic system.

Let the challenge be in the battle, where it should be. Not whether or not you are fortunate enough to even manage to engage in said battle due to an abundance of luck or a cadre or people with time enough to spend sitting idle in a game until it pops. There is really no way to overstate how little that has to do with any form or manner of skill, and how kind of sad it is to think so.

You obviously can't read.

[Phogg]

You obviously can't read.

You are arguing to continue/perpetuate timed NMs, yes? That is the core of your entire persistence with this thread, is it not?

You used nyzul as some form of support to your argument, yes?

You are offering red herring arguments, I can read just fine.

When you can provide any valid argument where claiming a timed NM has anything at all to do with skill, as you imply by telling people multiple times in this thread to "suckless", I'll have a sad stale cookie waiting for you.

[Habu]

Yes.

No. I was saying people will continue to complain about any form of content they don't like, or think is too hard, or unfair. I used those as examples of an "event being to hard".

If you want to read where I actually cared about arguing on this topic go read the thread I made. I've already said that I've stopped caring about trying to change people's mind because it will never happen. Thus the "suckless" etc comments, because if they don't care, neither do I.

[Phogg]

Yes.

No. I was saying people will continue to complain about any form of content they don't like, or think is too hard, or unfair. I used those as examples of an "event being to hard".

If you want to read where I actually cared about arguing on this topic go read the thread I made. I've already said that I've stopped caring about trying to change people's mind because it will never happen. Thus the "suckless" etc comments, because if they don't care, neither do I.

I don't see much in the way of people suggesting the events/battles are to hard in this thread, they are saying timed NMs are stupid and lame, and you are replying that they should "suckless" for thinking as much without providing any consistent reasoning behind your argument that claiming a timed NM has anything to do with the suck~to~skill ratio.

Sounds more like you might fall in the category of people who were sad that dynamis changed because they could no longer occupy dynamis for 3 hours once a week even though their LS no longer even had any need for doing dynamis.

All I'm reading is wha wha I can't claim. Suckless or cleave your KIs

Yeah, sounds an awful lot like you just don't care about changing the hearts and minds of forum goers, benevolent one.

[Demon6324236]

When you can tell me why times spawns like the ones you want are better for the game and its population I may change my views on it. Instead you do not, you insult people who don't share your views and back up the fact HNM should be brought back with nothing.

[Habu]

One sided view, nothing will change your mind, waste of time, circular argument.

[Demon6324236]

One sided view, nothing will change your mind, waste of time, circular argument.

You don't know it wont will change my mind unless you try, if thats not your goal then shut up and go away, your only trolling.

[Habu]

Read my last post.