On Red Mage melee...

[Rayik]

What makes me sick is your rhetoric implying that those of us who started life as a Red Mage and play it almost to the exclusion of every other job, but happen to disagree with you are somehow not Red Mages.

I agree with this statement, and again this goes to both sides of the argument.

If you enjoy being a mage-only RDM, then continue enjoying that. Nobody is taking it away from you. If you enjoy swinging your sword, enjoy that too. Trying to make one side out better than the other, or saying someone is wrong for playing how they enjoy, is just ignorant trolling.

Shiyo, you have been shut down at every turn. Doom parsed against "true DD's" and came out with favorable numbers. We're even getting Temper. What have you contributed to the conversation besides mindless trolling?

Don't like melee? Then don't do it.

[cidbahamut]

If you enjoy being a mage-only RDM, then continue enjoying that. Nobody is taking it away from you. If you enjoy swinging your sword, enjoy that too. Trying to make one side out better than the other, or saying someone is wrong for playing how they enjoy, is just ignorant trolling.

I'm not sure I agree with that. In any given situation one style will be more useful than the other, the problem is that we don't have an agreed upon method of measuring that.

[Rayik]

I'm not sure I agree with that. In any given situation one style will be more useful than the other, the problem is that we don't have an agreed upon method of measuring that.

Right on. I'm not saying we should be able to melee 100% of the time, and I've never said that. There are many situations(currently 90% of the time) where melee'ing is not an option. But in those situations, it's a good thing we have all this magic we can use too.

A versatile hybrid job is not going to be one thing all the time. And I agree, we don't really have much of a measure of when it's ok or not to do certain things, but our magic is so strong(compared to our melee currently) that we can safely do that in place of those unsure times.

[CapriciousOne]

I'm not sure I agree with that. In any given situation one style will be more useful than the other, the problem is that we don't have an agreed upon method of measuring that.

I personally dont feel there is a need to measure anything since it really is relative to the person being asked. Even if for specific situation where one style may be better than the other, that still doesnt mean you totally abandon the other style. I mean if you have 2 ways to damage a mob why only use one over the other when you can use both and still do more damage over time than any one method could alone?

[cidbahamut]

I personally dont feel there is a need to measure anything since it really is relative to the person being asked. Even if for specific situation where one style may be better than the other, that still doesnt mean you totally abandon the other style. I mean if you have 2 ways to damage a mob why only use one over the other when you can use both and still do more damage over time than any one method could alone?

Because one is more effective while the other ends up being detrimental to the success of the task at hand.

You can believe in the heart of the cards all you like, but that won't change the fact that you don't use scissors to beat rock.

[CapriciousOne]

1. Because one is more effective while the other ends up being detrimental to the success of the task at hand.

How is it detrimental when both are able to contribute to the successful defeat of a mob by increasing dps even if one does less damage than the other? Last time I checked Aero IV + Melee is still better than just Aero IV alone and vice versa. As long as the mob doesnt absorb the damage and heal itself as a result, any additional damage per attack round is anything BUT detrimental. Unless you are referring to getting hit more often as detrimental than if one is worried about getting hit than they really shouldn't be fighting the mob in the first place should be healing. Short of the high evasion and shadows of THF and NIN you should expect to get hit and hit hard or maybe i'm wrong.

2. You can believe in the heart of the cards all you like, but that won't change the fact that you don't use scissors to beat rock.

This isnt Rock Paper Scissors and that game always was dumb to me because a rock can cut paper yet it loses to it? Complete bs, LOL In any case if my scissors cant beat that rock then I would seek out a stronger tool to damage the rock and thus is the point and beauty of RDM.

[Duelle]

If you enjoy being a mage-only RDM, then continue enjoying that. Nobody is taking it away from you. If you enjoy swinging your sword, enjoy that too. Trying to make one side out better than the other, or saying someone is wrong for playing how they enjoy, is just ignorant trolling.

I agree with you. Most of us want to keep some semblance of the caster gameplay intact. I think I've been the only one willing to say "ok we can take from X and replace with Y to create the melee/front line focus". Other than that, the others have been staunch about not changing one but simply adding to the other.

[Rayik]

I agree with you. Most of us want to keep some semblance of the caster gameplay intact. I think I've been the only one willing to say "ok we can take from X and replace with Y to create the melee/front line focus". Other than that, the others have been staunch about not changing one but simply adding to the other.

I'm one of those others that doesn't want to see anything taken away from our magic, since all the other mages in the game cast rings around us already. Our magic is the one thing we can do well and even then we're getting dirt kicked in our faces by other jobs getting our former EX enfeebles, AoE versions of our buffs, and NM's being immune to our enfeebles. At this point doing anything negative to our magic would be devastating.

[CapriciousOne]

I agree with you. Most of us want to keep some semblance of the caster gameplay intact. I think I've been the only one willing to say "ok we can take from X and replace with Y to create the melee/front line focus". Other than that, the others have been staunch about not changing one but simply adding to the other.

Well for me at least, I'm not trying to take anything away from magic but rather ADD more to melee. I would never suggest to a developer: "Hey add this and get rid of that" just because I dont find something useful and I dont use it. Just because I think something is crap doesnt give me the right to ruin it for somebody else that thinks its great, even if the numbers may not support it. So far from what I've seen, I dont think anybody is trying to weaken or remove what already exists for magic to improve melee or vice versa. then again there is over a 1000 posts and i'm not reading them all to say otherwise.