On Red Mage melee...

[cidbahamut]

Stop double posting.

For real, it gets old.

[cidbahamut]

Go stab things in Voidwatch and let me know how that works out for you.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Go stab things in Voidwatch and let me know how that works out for you.

Yeah, right! 90% of jobs don't/can't melee on VoidWatch NM's so point = VOID.

[cidbahamut]

Yeah, right! 90% of jobs don't/can't melee on VoidWatch NM's so point = VOID.

You got a better benchmark for level 90 content that isn't lolAbyssea?

[Supersun]

You got a better benchmark for level 90 content that isn't lolAbyssea?

Dynamis?

Some of those NMs in there are probably a more realistic gauge of what to expect from 90+ content that's not Voidwatch

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You got a better benchmark for level 90 content that isn't lolAbyssea?

My point is as far as VoidWatch is concerned no one likes people attacking the mobs, I've seen THF's, DNC, BLU's even MNK's being told not to attack it as they were feeding too much TP. I've even seen people arguing with each other to cap SubtleBlow for them. These are times when a RDM would not be foolish enough to want to attack them.. That's what the anti-Melee crowd don't seem to understand.

RDM's as well as other jobs know when NOT to want to attack something, if they don't they usually get one warning then kicked if they continue. The general consensus should be if a THF (when not getting TH up) or BLU can attack a mob due to little fear of the TP moves so can most jobs.

Oh and one more thing, that DOESN'T include RDM's or anyjob that want to melee in gear that is NOT melee gear AKA RDM's eAF.

[Seriha]

Also if I remember reading correctly on ffxiclopedia.org or some other site doesnt magic give the mob MORE TP than meleeing does? The only exception to this I think is with 2handed weapons where they give off more tp than single handed weapons and magic on a per action basis. Even still if your supposed to be some DD on the front line and worrying about feeding tp than you need to be mage so you dont get any scars on that wimpy little face of yours, LOL Seriously a DD complaining about getting hit by a TP move is hilarious to me.

From what I recall, any damaging spell gave a mob 10 TP. Subtle Blow would, funnily enough, subtract from this number. However, I don't know if the recent AGI modifications have affected this, but things like multi-hit BLU spells were notorious for TP feed since Bludgeon landing its 3 hits would give 30, Disseverment 50, and so on. It'd be easy enough to test with Charm and checking pet TP, though.

[Neisan_Quetz]

The AGI buff affects that iirc, even under 25% HP I couldn't get empty in Vazhl to tp in less than 12 casts of dia 2 doing at least 1 damage (if it was 10tp per cast, it should have tp'd every 10 spells).

[saevel]

Are they seriously trying to use VWNM's as a reason not to melee? You realize that on VWNM's I go RDM/DRK for stun's right? You also realize that standing right next to me are the DRK, MNK, SAM, DRG, WAR, NIN, BLM and WHM's. The only people on the NM are our two super PLD's and a THF until they identify white procs. Afterwards individual melee's are called in to proc things one a a time until we proc white !!, then the "get in and unleash" order is given upon which everyone (myself included) runs in and does WS / as much damage as possible until the monster is no longer terrorized, I then stun and we all run back to our starting positions. The battle continues until white is proced again and we all run in again.

T3/T4 VWNM's have crazy powerful aoe's, they can one shot mages and two shot melee's. There is no crazy MP regen so WHM MP actually becomes an issue, too many melee's getting 700~1K+ damage attacks will rapidly deplete the WHM's MP, which then cause's a problem. We learned this during the T4 Sandy VWNM fight against the four armed bandit. We had our melee's doing their "melee thing" and within 10min two of our WHM's were out of MP and the "tank WHM" was limping along, heck I was running low as I was blowing large amounts on constant Cure IV's. People started dieing and we quickly pulled everyone off the NM. Raise's were slow to hand out as MP was critically low, eventually we got everyone up and out of that things path. This was our first T4 and we learned our lesson.

Funny thing, the best DD in that fight was our JR RNG, he did so much damage while being out of the aoe range.

[cidbahamut]

The point is that's the direction in which the metagame has been shifting for several months now.