Raise and the balance issue

Raise skills causing balance issue for DPS and the damage is noticeable when certain DPS jobs are valid because of they have a "Raise",

here is my suggestion for this issue:

1- Remove Raise completely for DPS jobs.

2- when someone die add a timer respawn and it will increase based on how many time player died in encounter, starting from 60,90,120,240,can't be revived.

3- Healers have the ability to set respawn timer to 0 but this skill will have cooldown of 60s, 2 charges.

4- DPS jobs like SMN,RDM can't revive anymore but they can have less timer and DNC,BRD can have less timers.

5- when someone get revived they will not have debuff.

6- jobs like astrologian can have kit of true time mage.


why this solution is better that what we have now?

1- remove the toxicity around making some DPS jobs do less damage because they have raise.

2- give healers a choice to make game-changing decision.

3- remove the debuff of at least not in first 2 deaths will give players room to recover.


What do you think? do think current death + raise is balance as it is or there is other solutions in mind?

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

1- Remove Raise completely for DPS jobs.

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no, thanks

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

2- when someone die add a timer respawn and it will increase based on how many time player died in encounter, starting from 60,90,120,240,can't be revived.

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needless complexity, im sure savage teams will love keeping track of wildly different respawn timers

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

3- Healers have the ability to set respawn timer to 0 but this skill will have cooldown of 60s, 2 charges.

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'rez once per minute' is a surefire way to make healer play rate drop to zero

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

5- when someone get revived they will not have debuff.

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why

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

1- remove the toxicity around making some DPS jobs do less damage because they have raise.

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wouldnt be a problem if se knew how to balance jobs, dps rez is part of their job identity and removing it just contributes to more job homogenization

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

2- give healers a choice to make game-changing decision.

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they already do, see: they're healers

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

3- remove the debuff of at least not in first 2 deaths will give players room to recover.

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ah, i see. maybe dont die in the first place

in a perfect world you wouldn't need to revive, and you would only need to heal the bare minimum
but in most scenarios, you will have people dying left and right
it's not a big deal for red mages and summoners to be able to revive
the skill is nice utility to have in the scenario of when you have either one or both healers constantly on the floor and you're able to assist in some way

I don't know how much more fun it would be to have players auto revive like we're playing crystalline conflict
there are also advantages to holding off on reviving right away, because you can revive right as the platform is about to be taken out right under you thus killing you again

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

'rez once per minute' is a surefire way to make healer play rate drop to zero

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Well, if healers is as important as "Phoenix Down" there is a gameplay issue do you think?

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

they already do, see: they're healers

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I see so they can raise you but with the debuff, you can say that is a game changer but it is with debuff

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

wouldnt be a problem if se knew how to balance jobs, dps rez is part of their job identity and removing it just contributes to more job homogenization

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it is part of identity that cause a problem in the balance issue, then you don't have to remove it but change it.

raise cause many problems to summoner and red mage they are effectvly second job citizen when it comes to DPS, lower level DPS because of 1 spell that it is their identity.

that's why I suggest that have spells that lower the timer by 25% for example.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

needless complexity, im sure savage teams will love keeping track of wildly different respawn timers

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in EW we balance the game around high end raiders, and then everyone blame SE in DT for that, why we repeat the mistake?

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

ah, i see. maybe dont die in the first place

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exactly but there is a soft pillow between being bad and someone did a mistake that people can recover from.

If raise is causing balance problems in the DPS role, then fix it within the DPS role, why change the entire raise system?

Limiting healer raise for no reason just further reduces their agency in the party and diminishes another avenue for a skilled healer to recover a failing party. This change won't allow a healer the opportunity to make a game-changing play, they can already do so, this change would just reduce their ability to pull a game-changing save.

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Originally Posted by CVXIV

in a perfect world you wouldn't need to revive, and you would only need to heal the bare minimum
but in most scenarios, you will have people dying left and right
it's not a big deal for red mages and summoners to be able to revive
the skill is nice utility to have in the scenario of when you have either one or both healers constantly on the floor and you're able to assist in some way

I don't know how much more fun it would be to have players auto revive like we're playing crystalline conflict
there are also advantages to holding off on reviving right away, because you can revive right as the platform is about to be taken out right under you thus killing you again

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well, I see your point but Yoshi P mentions that he did lower RDM and SMN damage because of raise.

he is using this as an excuse to nerf them.

Healers raise will function the same, having 2 charges each 60 s is reasonable, if 3 people died in 60s, the run is doomed anyways, they can't reach the damage check specially when it comes to high-end raiding.

yes in some scenario it will be bad specially if you revived in a place where floor drop

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

Well, if healers is as important as "Phoenix Down" there is a gameplay issue do you think?

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its not that rez is their only purpose, its that the last thing they need right now is an artificial restriction preventing them from carrying out their role

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

I see so they can raise you but with the debuff, you can say that is a game changer but it is with debuff

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the debuff is to disincentivize you from dying, lower dps/weaker tank is better than no dps/no tank

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

raise cause many problems to summoner and red mage they are effectvly second job citizen when it comes to DPS, lower level DPS because of 1 spell that it is their identity.

that's why I suggest that have spells that lower the timer by 25% for example.

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so instead of letting them have a way to help the party, you give them something that becomes more and more useless the better they are at the game. something that SE will still give them nerfed damage for.

ok

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

in EW we balance the game around high end raiders, and then everyone blame SE in DT for that, why we repeat the mistake?

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theres a difference between making changes that only benefit the 1% and harm everyone else, and making changes that harm the 1% and harm everyone else.

the status quo is perfectly fine outside of the damage balancing of the offending jobs. this complicated rez system is pointless, feels like a suggestion made by someone who has never played healer, RDM, or SMN

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

exactly but there is a soft pillow between being bad and someone did a mistake that people can recover from.

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if rez sickness is the difference between your party succeeding and failing, then your party needs to vote disband and go practice on easier content

We used to only have one DPS that could resurrect and that was Summoner. At the time this was the case, Summoner was a lot harder to play (or at least, easier to mess up because some people barely did any damage on it) and was limited to 1 rez per minute. So, often your party would only have healers to rez, and if you wanted to survive, keeping the healers (or occasionally a SMN) alive was crucial - even at the cost of something like Clemency. I liked this because of the pressure being on the healers or on the party to help a healer survive.

Stormblood added red mages with a virtually unlimited rez, and in so doing changed the game. Being new, everyone played RDM. And to this day, if you want to carry a party, RDM is common choice to constantly rez them all. And with SMN being so easy to play now, that is a choice as well (if expecting to rez a bit less).

Should we go back? Honestly, no point. RDM has its place now. If you want to carry a party you go RDM. It's an option. You make this judgement based on your party and if you think that what you can bring to the party most is to "carry" them with rezzes because you can do the mechs. And it does work in many fights, especially extremes. And it works for the playerbase we have, let's be honest. Often you join a party and know they're all gonna wipe because they make comments like "I'm so bad at this fight". In a perfect world, maybe everyone would be amazing and not need this but that's not the sort of playerbase we have.

And the time you don't go RDM is if you don't need/want to. If you've got a great team that won't die or the fight is so easy they can't possibly wipe that much.

There is a benefit to doing a deathless run, which really, is everyone feeling good about their clear and not having contributed less damage. So it works out.

As for the damage being scaled on it due to it having raise, really that is just SE's damage balancing decisions and they could just change those, rather than adjusting rez. But it doesn't really matter as long as the difference isn't actually big enough that you prevent parties clearing due to your damage versus other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

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it is not big I agree if you just count how much X job do DPS but the thing is we can't really count how much X job do utility,

current RDM even if they lower their damage to MCH level it will still be viable not because of damage but because of utility not any utility but a raise that has 0 cooldown and insta cast after jolt.

SMN doesn't have swift cast but it has rezz which still a big part of why people play this job in the first place,

Rezz is the strongest spell in healers kit, giving that away to DPS will have some sequences and we see it now of how we balance DPS jobs around DPS when they have utility too that we don't balance it around it.

RDM and SMN could be in someplaces superior and could be inferior jobs based on situation, but I am sure they can't be balance with the current state with Rezz in their kit.

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

2- give healers a choice to make game-changing decision.

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I'd only agrees to this one.

Other than that, just gitgud and don't die, no excuse

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

well, I see your point but Yoshi P mentions that he did lower RDM and SMN damage because of raise.

he is using this as an excuse to nerf them.

Healers raise will function the same, having 2 charges each 60 s is reasonable, if 3 people died in 60s, the run is doomed anyways, they can't reach the damage check specially when it comes to high-end raiding.

yes in some scenario it will be bad specially if you revived in a place where floor drop

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

FFXIV players are so obsessed with DPS
I know this isn't only FFXIV but MMOs as a genre,

But why? I play video games from many other genres that doesn't have this problem and I it is more competitive than any MMO out there.

As someone who comes from PvE and PvP games both I never encounter a game that so obsessed with DPS meter and balance like FFXIV.

Even though I don't believe in balance in FFXIV or other games.

DPS,HPS is the only 2 factors in the game that will make X job a better instead of having a good gameplay and fun experience trying different new things even if it feels troll.

It doesn't make me feel comfortable really, If I quit raiding it is because of this.

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https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...essed-with-DPS

you mention high-end raiding, but a lot of players don't do that content, right? That's one of the big complaints I've seen brought up here especially with the release of patch 7.1 with the chaotic alliance raid and the ultimate - that not many people do this content so there's really not a lot for casual players to participate in

Normal content for the most part doesn't have enrage mechanics and with how the ilvl system is we can breeze through most of the older fights without much worry despite constant deaths in the party

The issue is almost never the fact we can't meet damage checks, but because if the healers die then most jobs don't have the sustain to keep going and it becomes a battle of attrition; which is fine, I don't think the party should be able to withstand a boss's full onslaught for an extended period of time, but on the other hand I don't think red mage and summoner having these skills is inherently harmful.

I do understand that them having it will likely always result in them having lower DPS but is that necessarily a bad thing? Personally I enjoy jobs having utility and so they can help out the party, it's why out of the tanks I like paladin the best for its wide range of skills to support

I'm not sure about the healer choices portion if a caster dps can no longer raise.

As choices I have seen sometimes were "Tank dies, healer prioritizes raise over heal. DPS who has the aggro being neglected and dies, tanks up but may not be fully after the invul window."

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

it is not big I agree if you just count how much X job do DPS but the thing is we can't really count how much X job do utility,

current RDM even if they lower their damage to MCH level it will still be viable not because of damage but because of utility not any utility but a raise that has 0 cooldown and insta cast after jolt.

SMN doesn't have swift cast but it has rezz which still a big part of why people play this job in the first place,

Rezz is the strongest spell in healers kit, giving that away to DPS will have some sequences and we see it now of how we balance DPS jobs around DPS when they have utility too that we don't balance it around it.

RDM and SMN could be in someplaces superior and could be inferior jobs based on situation, but I am sure they can't be balance with the current state with Rezz in their kit.

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SMN very much does have Swiftcast. It is literally a caster role ability, all magic dps have swiftcast. The reason SMN and RDM do less damage is also more than just their raise ability. Both of them provide party buffs, and RDM can (for a very brief moment) pump out some fast heals to get a healer back up. They take a hit in the DPS of this because otherwise, if they did anywhere near BLM then what is the point of bringing a caster with no raid utility or buffs that really just wants to turret in an anti-turret fight.

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

Raise skills causing balance issue for DPS and the damage is noticeable when certain DPS jobs are valid because of they have a "Raise"

1- Remove Raise completely for DPS jobs.
6- jobs like astrologian can have kit of true time mage.

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0 - Balance doesn't matter as much as job flavor.
1 - Just make it so that the jobs that have a raise are not penalized DPS-wise.
1.2- And to balance that, easy fix: make phoenix downs usable during fights.
6 - I would rather have a time mage and continue with the trend of removing time magic from Astro, the same way White mage is now doing mostly holy spells and leaving wind/earth so that hopefully we can get a Geomancer later.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

0 - Balance doesn't matter as much as job flavor.
1 - Just make it so that the jobs that have a raise are not penalized DPS-wise.
1.2- And to balance that, easy fix: make phoenix downs usable during fights.
6 - I would rather have a time mage and continue with the trend of removing time magic from Astro, the same way White mage is now doing mostly holy spells and leaving wind/earth so that hopefully we can get a Geomancer later.

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No thanks, kindly don't conflate a DPS discussion with further "enhancements" to AST, ASTs have already suffered enough thank you.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

No thanks, kindly don't conflate a DPS discussion with further "enhancements" to AST, ASTs have already suffered enough thank you.

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I am not really speaking about any enhancement to AST, as they already don't do any time magic anymore...aside maybe from Lightspeed, but this is just Presence of Mind with some AST flavor.
You are never going to get time magic again with AST anyways, time to move on.

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Originally Posted by Xactly

I'm not sure about the healer choices portion if a caster dps can no longer raise.

As choices I have seen sometimes were "Tank dies, healer prioritizes raise over heal. DPS who has the aggro being neglected and dies, tanks up but may not be fully after the invul window."

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While I also think that you should keep the living ones alive before you start raising the dead ones: That's a legitimate choice to make. The dps gets sacrificed to get the tank back up so the tank can get the fight under control again. The dps likely will die anyway at the next tank buster.

But even if a healer does make a bad choice: It's a good thing that he is able to, otherwise the game would play itself and how fun is that?

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Originally Posted by Garnix

I am not really speaking about any enhancement to AST, as they already don't do any time magic anymore...aside maybe from Lightspeed, but this is just Presence of Mind with some AST flavor.
You are never going to get time magic again with AST anyways, time to move on.

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Did you really forget what you posted already? Here it is again "I would rather have a time mage and continue with the trend of removing time magic from Astro, the same way White mage is now doing mostly holy spells and leaving wind/earth so that hopefully we can get a Geomancer later"

While you may be correct about future AST changes, unless you have some inside information, neither you nor I can be certain of them- so stating them as a certainty would be misleading, and telling someone to "move on" is not up to you. You may or may not get a Geomancer, fine- make your argument for getting one. I, as well as any one else- can decide if they want to ask for job changes when they want .

The far simpler solution would be to slap a long CD on Caster raise ala Blue Mage, if they insist on keeping it. Personally, I'd rather they didn't because it's become such an issue for them to balance around but putting a limit on Caster would be a decent enough alterative.

If RDM's damage is gonna continue to be held back by Verraise, at least give me a spatula or a squeegee for a weapon glam.

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Originally Posted by Tint

But even if a healer does make a bad choice: It's a good thing that he is able to, otherwise the game would play itself and how fun is that?

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Dont worry, thats coming in 8.0.. "Please wait for it!"

I think the raise on DPS should have a bigger cooldown and be a ability instead but a cooldown of a minute

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

I think the raise on DPS should have a bigger cooldown and be a ability instead but a cooldown of a minute

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it's completely negated by swiftcast which will most likely not change, ever, since it's the core of some of the caster's normal rotation.

And how would that even add anything to the game or be meaningful in any way? Unless 70% of your team is dead (including the healer/s), having a longer cooldown is pointless since there are only some instances where DPS is expected to Raise before the healers.

What is the community’s hyperfixation on putting a hefty cool-down on Raise? Like literally nobody ever just mentions the spell, it’s always ‘put a 2min cool-down on it!!!!’

Why are we advocating for changes that do literal nothing other than punish casuals and bad players by making them having to wait 2 minutes on the floor instead of 7 seconds. And if the healers both die? Gets its just a straight up wipe regardless of the competency of those who remain lol. ‘Sorry guys I had to wipe the raid because my raise was still 1.50M off cool-down but don’t worry that extra 100 dps I did will totally make all the difference’(I’m being facetious)

Is it seriously a case of ‘I shouldn’t have to dedicate 7 seconds of my time to helping others! Make it instant so it doesn’t infringe upon my DPS in any way!!!!!’ *proceeds to spam Afflatus for Misery outside of raid buff window’….and people still wonder why they don’t trust healers with even the tiniest spec of responsibility…and now we want one of the few days DPS can help healers to be so wholly neutered that it may as well not exist? What’s the point? So Summoners and Red Mages can copium the fuck out of their lack of Raise by thinking it’ll somehow make their dps super skyrocket to the top? (Tip: it will not)

Hell I’ll go one further: removing or severely neutering Raise is just further job homogenisation amongst dps . Why is it somehow a bad thing if there are dps with lower dps output that can support the party? Are we seriously going to start getting devs to make all 22 jobs pure selfish dps next? What about melee? Should we give them all full ranged combos with the same potency as melee?

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

it's completely negated by swiftcast which will most likely not change, ever, since it's the core of some of the caster's normal rotation.

And how would that even add anything to the game or be meaningful in any way? Unless 70% of your team is dead (including the healer/s), having a longer cooldown is pointless since there are only some instances where DPS is expected to Raise before the healers.

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I mostly speak about over use other then that I don't have much of a problem with it not gonna lie like ya maybe red mage is overkill with dualcast and annoying sometime too but again I think raising isn't the main issues I have with today gameplay

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Originally Posted by Garnix

1 - Just make it so that the jobs that have a raise are not penalized DPS-wise.

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Honestly this is the real answer, truth of the matter is, a good raid run will either feature 0 deaths or so few deaths, or so few deaths the Healers will be more than able to keep up with it, there IS a benefit to RDM rezzes in prog, but the other truth is that you don't have to use RDM to clear to benefit from it, play RDM to prog until you see Enrage, then switch to PCT and kill, that's what a lot of people are doing as is, the penalty only makes people who want to play RDM because they are attached to the job, its gameplay, and its aesthetics, suffer.

I have the impression things were kind of the other way when RDM was introduced. I assume it was the easiest caster to play at the time and through ShB, and thus had lower DPS, but had better support utility to compensate for it. It seemed like an oversight it was doing worse than SMN in EW, really.

Even without the supposed rez tax I still think it should be pretty far behind in dps to BLM.

I think this is just too restrictive, and needlessly convoluted.

The most I think they should do is add a cooldown onto Raise, and Verraise, as opposed to removing it entirely.

Removing it entirely just creates a SPOF on the healers.

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Originally Posted by Connor

What is the community’s hyperfixation on putting a hefty cool-down on Raise? Like literally nobody ever just mentions the spell, it’s always ‘put a 2min cool-down on it!!!!’

Why are we advocating for changes that do literal nothing other than punish casuals and bad players by making them having to wait 2 minutes on the floor instead of 7 seconds. And if the healers both die? Gets its just a straight up wipe regardless of the competency of those who remain lol. ‘Sorry guys I had to wipe the raid because my raise was still 1.50M off cool-down but don’t worry that extra 100 dps I did will totally make all the difference’(I’m being facetious)

Is it seriously a case of ‘I shouldn’t have to dedicate 7 seconds of my time to helping others! Make it instant so it doesn’t infringe upon my DPS in any way!!!!!’ *proceeds to spam Afflatus for Misery outside of raid buff window’….and people still wonder why they don’t trust healers with even the tiniest spec of responsibility…and now we want one of the few days DPS can help healers to be so wholly neutered that it may as well not exist? What’s the point? So Summoners and Red Mages can copium the fuck out of their lack of Raise by thinking it’ll somehow make their dps super skyrocket to the top? (Tip: it will not)

Hell I’ll go one further: removing or severely neutering Raise is just further job homogenisation amongst dps . Why is it somehow a bad thing if there are dps with lower dps output that can support the party? Are we seriously going to start getting devs to make all 22 jobs pure selfish dps next? What about melee? Should we give them all full ranged combos with the same potency as melee?

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games mostly do not balance game by main classes (dps,tank,healer) but they balance them based on second factors like:
Slayers, Bruisers, Artillery
Marksmen, Supports, Mages
Guardians, Wardens

and the process of balancing jobs is like if X job 50% slayer and 50% mage then their functionality (kit) should be 50% of a slayer and 50% of mage and the job could have kit from both sub-classes.. this is a design philosophy that is running in the market currently in many games and it is working.

FFXIV choose to balance around the main classes which is DPS,TANK,HEALER and that's why we have homonogization, you can't mix between DPS/TANK and HEALER/TANK because it will 100% show a balance issue.

Smart games understands that, so they do not balance jobs based on main classes but sub-classes we call it balancing based on functionality of the job.

That's why RDM and SMN will always show a balance issue in the game they can't have Raise unless they do less damage, and having less damage = wipe.

they are better in cases and others bad, unless we have a system where we can have sub-class system we can't have this as a feature without its issues.

FFXIV is always trying to invent the wheel by doing extra work for a thing that is working and beloved by the market

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Originally Posted by Connor

What is the community’s hyperfixation on putting a hefty cool-down on Raise? Like literally nobody ever just mentions the spell, it’s always ‘put a 2min cool-down on it!!!!’

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Because the dev team simply can't balancing around it, thus two jobs are forever stuck being miles behind their direct competition. It's not by a 100 DPS either. Pictro currently pulls over 2,000 cDPS above both Red Mage and Summoner. In this tier alone, Picto's representation in Savage completely cannibalized the entire role. The problem with this type of support is it's only valuable when needed and useless otherwise. Which makes the tax simply far too high. The only reason we haven't seen as much of a pushback prior was because Black Mage was relatively difficulty to play well. That isn't the case with Picto. It's not Summoner levels of simplistic by any means but it's pretty much in line with everything else.

Now why does all this matter? If you can skip mechanics or push through damage downs/deaths, you've eliminated a potential failure state. Case in point, Xeno's infamous babyrage video about Gunbreaker. Him swapping off the much weaker Warrior allowed his team to make more mistakes because the tremendous damage difference between both jobs gave them flexibility. Then you have to consider players who dislike their job functionally only being "good" when things go horribly wrong and disliked otherwise. A lot of Red Mages don't want to just be "the rez b" but that's essentially what the job is because it simply can't compete with Picto. The irony is way back in Shadowbringers, Red Mage wasn't that far behind Black Mage. So they can balance them but have intentionally chosen to make this gap so massive.

On the whole, a compromise would simply be leaving Raise alone in casual content and slapping a long CD for Savage/Ultimate.

Love having raise on my summoner, and a healer dying should not be a lose condition. You should be able to plan around a healer dying by adding a SMN/RDM.

I'm happy to give up some DPS for the utility on SMN. If I hated it so much and needed to top a parse I'd play something else. We have options.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Because the dev team simply can't balancing around it, thus two jobs are forever stuck being miles behind their direct competition. It's not by a 100 DPS either. Pictro currently pulls over 2,000 cDPS above both Red Mage and Summoner. In this tier alone, Picto's representation in Savage completely cannibalized the entire role. The problem with this type of support is it's only valuable when needed and useless otherwise. Which makes the tax simply far too high. The only reason we haven't seen as much of a pushback prior was because Black Mage was relatively difficulty to play well. That isn't the case with Picto. It's not Summoner levels of simplistic by any means but it's pretty much in line with everything else.

Now why does all this matter? If you can skip mechanics or push through damage downs/deaths, you've eliminated a potential failure state. Case in point, Xeno's infamous babyrage video about Gunbreaker. Him swapping off the much weaker Warrior allowed his team to make more mistakes because the tremendous damage difference between both jobs gave them flexibility. Then you have to consider players who dislike their job functionally only being "good" when things go horribly wrong and disliked otherwise. A lot of Red Mages don't want to just be "the rez b" but that's essentially what the job is because it simply can't compete with Picto. The irony is way back in Shadowbringers, Red Mage wasn't that far behind Black Mage. So they can balance them but have intentionally chosen to make this gap so massive.

On the whole, a compromise would simply be leaving Raise alone in casual content and slapping a long CD for Savage/Ultimate.

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Raise is not the deciding factor in that, it's that PCT does far too much and released very overtuned, but the devs refuse to actually nerf it because they're terrified of potential complaints. They're evidently fine with complaints about everything else.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Because the dev team simply can't balancing around it, thus two jobs are forever stuck being miles behind their direct competition. It's not by a 100 DPS either. Pictro currently pulls over 2,000 cDPS above both Red Mage and Summoner. In this tier alone, Picto's representation in Savage completely cannibalized the entire role. The problem with this type of support is it's only valuable when needed and useless otherwise. Which makes the tax simply far too high. The only reason we haven't seen as much of a pushback prior was because Black Mage was relatively difficulty to play well. That isn't the case with Picto. It's not Summoner levels of simplistic by any means but it's pretty much in line with everything else.

Now why does all this matter? If you can skip mechanics or push through damage downs/deaths, you've eliminated a potential failure state. Case in point, Xeno's infamous babyrage video about Gunbreaker. Him swapping off the much weaker Warrior allowed his team to make more mistakes because the tremendous damage difference between both jobs gave them flexibility. Then you have to consider players who dislike their job functionally only being "good" when things go horribly wrong and disliked otherwise. A lot of Red Mages don't want to just be "the rez b" but that's essentially what the job is because it simply can't compete with Picto. The irony is way back in Shadowbringers, Red Mage wasn't that far behind Black Mage. So they can balance them but have intentionally chosen to make this gap so massive.

On the whole, a compromise would simply be leaving Raise alone in casual content and slapping a long CD for Savage/Ultimate.

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I agree overall, however I find that compromise to be rather odd. I would rather have a lengthier CD on raise in all content - I don't see that it would cause undue hardship in normal content.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Love having raise on my summoner, and a healer dying should not be a lose condition. You should be able to plan around a healer dying by adding a SMN/RDM.

I'm happy to give up some DPS for the utility on SMN. If I hated it so much and needed to top a parse I'd play something else. We have options.

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Honestly I agree, I have had parties carried by the one or two party members who went SMN/RDM or both. If we had to lose let's say 500 DPS but got more utility and buffs by a RDM/SMN in the party then i'm all for it

Could copy WoW and just make it so you only get a raise every couple minutes into a fight (they accumulate). Probably only for Ex and above, not for alliance raids and dungeons.

The raise tax is justified, it's part of utility.

Even the US world first FRU clear had each healer die once in the final phases and clear without issue. Of course their makeup just happened to be PCT, RDM, SCH, and AST.

Many world firsts in the past never had a caster raise, because damage is the best mitigation in the game.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Could copy WoW and just make it so you only get a raise every couple minutes into a fight (they accumulate). Probably only for Ex and above, not for alliance raids and dungeons.

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There is already limited or limited % chance raises content in the game like BA or DR Savage. YoshiP has no intention on making this a standard in regular savage or ultimate tiers.