Ranked is mega unpopular even though it offers the same rewards as Unranked

Why don't players like Ranked?

I find it way more fun than the chaotic and kinda silly Unranked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eisi

Why don't players like Ranked?

---

You have the reason right in the title. Why put pressure on yourself to play a ranked mode when you can just play an unranked mode for the same rewards and not feel judged for it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MintnHoney

You have the reason right in the title. Why put pressure on yourself to play a ranked mode when you can just play an unranked mode for the same rewards and not feel judged for it?

---

Why do you think the pressure and the feeling of being judged is there in Ranked but not Unranked?

I judge people in Unranked all the time!

Because losing at unranked doesn't make you feel like you're going one step forward, five step backwards.

Why people play Unranked over Ranked:
1.) No rank restrictions, so faster queues
2.) Same reward for way less effort required
3.) Nobody's rank is on the line, so low pressure
4.) Easier to have fun if you sit on the higher end of skill in a match

If Ranked has a bunch of restrictions and pressure points, you need to incentivise it.

Right now the most active Ranked players are those who already are at the high end of the skill gap, seeking occasionally intense matches. Or they just scrim in Custom Match for 3rd Party tournaments.

I play CC either when super bored, or to get stickers for my book, so casual feels appropriate.

Ranked is far more interesting than casual! From my experience the ranking system makes it very addictive; the gambling element is really there. Ranked is also much more aggressive and toxic which can be testing for those who respond to such things emotionally. You are not likely to make any friends there since everyone is sus and you literally cannot tell who is a friend or a foe (this is further complicated by tons of alts). It gets worse the closer to the top you are, you will know you are high enough once the hellos stop complately. Players fear being ostracized and rightfully so! It's very understandable. Regardless, I do wish more laid back people would join and dilute all the toxicity. I just wouldn't want anyone to do that at the expense to their mental health <3

Unranked IS kinda silly but great for practicing. Also it helps to go for a few unranked matches or frontlines before ranked cc simply to detach emotionally and get into the swing of it. I'm not sure if there is a need to say this but for those who are planning on doing ranked, stay away from discord and pvp community unless vulgar and dodgy behaviour are to your taste...or you want to test your stoic stance.

If you are playing ranked cc on regular, at least ask yourself, how addicted do you consider yourself to be and what is the element that you find most compelling. I find that there is no other content that pushes you this hard to respond fast and make quick decisions in a changing environment, the margin of error is huge and every team member owns a fair chunk of it but that is what makes it fun.

Listen if you aren't going to fix ranked, they need to at least fix the match making for unranked. Minute and a half matches because one team has long time players and the other has all new players isn't fun for anyone and it hurts retention. Also stupid things like stacking on team with mass CC and the other with little to none feels bad. For me this is just a failure to incentivize and moderate. Two things SE is known for failing at.

Small addendum, we are currently close to the end of season, so this also puts a dent on queue times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balmung_Griffin

Because losing at unranked doesn't make you feel like you're going one step forward, five step backwards.

---

Its a 1 for 1 system... You lose 1 star or gain 1 star. The only difference is if you're on a win streak then you win 2 stars. Its literally the most friendly ranked system ever. You don't even de rank out of a tier till like plat or something.

I personally don't see the point in pvping unless its ranked. You gain nothing from unranked and the lack of some kind of matchmaking makes the matches way more wild because you get people who want to try and you get people who don't care at all.

Square needs to make a decision with small scale pvp and have a single mode. Either remove unranked or remove ranked. PvP isn't popular enough to split the queues the way they do. Personally I'd prefer if they removed unranked and then they went back to the first version of ranking for CC so its casual enough for casuals to make their way through the tiers because you can't fall out of any tier you enter and with the crystal ranked having its own point system for the higher end skills. Feel like that would be a good middle ground.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elfidan

Listen if you aren't going to fix ranked, they need to at least fix the match making for unranked. Minute and a half matches because one team has long time players and the other has all new players isn't fun for anyone and it hurts retention. Also stupid things like stacking on team with mass CC and the other with little to none feels bad. For me this is just a failure to incentivize and moderate. Two things SE is known for failing at.

---

The mode needs a best of 3 type rounds imo.

Ranked is full of script users and hackers, and win-traders. Reporting them does absolutely nothing.

After reaching Crystal season 1-3, I'm no longer going to waste my time with that nonsense.

I wouldn't be against that Ransu.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Ranked is full of script users and hackers, and win-traders. Reporting them does absolutely nothing.

After reaching Crystal season 1-3, I'm no longer going to waste my time with that nonsense.

---

Its really not...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

Its really not...

---

You know how it is, they see a rat once then jump at every shadow moving around thinking it is a swarm of them.

They exist, but people blow their existence out of proportions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluish

Ranked is far more interesting than casual! From my experience the ranking system makes it very addictive; the gambling element is really there.

---

That's not healthy behaviour and not a good reason to play ranked.

Also personally I don't find any joy in a random element deciding if I'm going to win. But I also don't have a gambling addiction, so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

You know how it is, they see a rat once then jump at every shadow moving around thinking it is a swarm of them.

They exist, but people blow their existence out of proportions.

---

Yeah, but also there are suspicious looking things that happen because of bad game design too. Like characters cutting through corners or questionable line of sight stuff.

I'm glad you never had gambling addiction but maybe that is a good reason not to have much understanding in that area. Having said that I'm no gambler either, just adhd, and so I've grown very aware of activities that contain a hook. In here I was referring to the star system, which is based on loose one/win one/get a streak/break a bad streak and those are elements present in the gambling environment. There have been countless times I've chosen to stay for another match based on either making up for loss or trying to keep the streak, wanting to see how long it lasts...

You make addiction and gambling sound somewhat shameful and you wouldn't if you had any consideration whatsoever to the reality of how human brain works. Most people, if not all, have addictions and I must say that I would be surprised to find a gamer without one, even if it's just gaming itself or simply bigging yourself up by making others feel small.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

Its really not...

---

Yes it is. https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...llineconflict/

Top 3 conveniently have the same first name.

Also https://youtu.be/Ncy6Mgv5K14

Well:
1. Ranked Rewards are unappealing for majority now that we know they plan to just release the same framer kit but change the Numerical Value of it which seems pointless to keep aiming for rank 1 of a season when you obtain those top rewards at all let alone casuals getting a crystal one for sake of plate stuff.

2. Win/Loss rewards are the same as Unranked towards the Series Malmstones board. So no incentive for even casuals to flood low ladder ranks.

3. Majority and i do mean Majority of the appealing PVP rewards are now obtainable without having to do rank PVP at all

4. Season Titles are also exactly the same with only an achievement to denote which 'season' you got them from.

5. I can't do ranked with my friends so why make it more painful on myself since I have to sit in silence all throughout the game due to no voice coms at all.

The main issue with Rank as well is that you are punished for being on a team that isn't coordinated enough to supplement or understand why a job acts the way it does. I.e: As a BRD i need to stand at a certain Yalm distance for max damage. I'm not going to push the crystal moshpit if i'm supporting the others + shutting down certain focus targets with skills and timed burst to back up others. The inability to premake a group for ranked already kills all fun and enjoyment possible.

Easy fixes are to make a separate ladder for group much like they did before in The Feast and allow people to make their own teams if they so desire with whoever they feel like.
Maybe increase the base Lose/Win rewards by another 25% or even 50% to get people into the Ranked match. (Instead of 900 series EXP a win make it 1250 Series EXP a win and a loss can be 900 Series EXP)

Not even talking about balance problems with jobs or how some jobs are literally broken. I'm more in the park of what is exactly in Ranked that would entice me to keep trying? I got platinum in season 1, almost diamond if teams were not ass and frankly I'm okay with the reward. I don't need to run it again for more platinum or a Crystal plate graphic nor the title since i have better (Eventually there will be a higher population with Crystal Bearer almost matching the titles people get by accident in MSQ)

So yeah people do not want to put in a lot of work and effort for what amounts to spit in a jar or a T-shirt that is the exact same as last season but they changed the number. Everything that would come in Ranked Play is on the Series Malmstone and by day 6 of the patch through a couple matches a day with a mad dash towards the last stretch I got the rank 25 armor no problem.
And i felt more joy doing it on casual than if i did it on ranked cause i know at least if i lost in casual, it didn't matter in the longevity unlike Ranked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meowdyj

Yes it is. https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...llineconflict/

Top 3 conveniently have the same first name.

Also https://youtu.be/Ncy6Mgv5K14

---

Are we really going to cite MAJOR offenders of the system to prove Ransu wrong on what he replied to? Do we really use the major d***heads per datacenter to prove that "all of high end ranked is cheating" or something?

These are outliers, not rules.

The only reason I play ranked is for the skill level. Playing casual mode with jobs you're trying to learn is all fine and dandy, but with the jobs you actually have experience with, it's just seal clubbing, and it doesn't challenge you nor punish you for playing sloppy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meowdyj

Yes it is. https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...llineconflict/

Top 3 conveniently have the same first name.

Also https://youtu.be/Ncy6Mgv5K14

---

Look, I never said there are no cheaters. I have a clip from my stream of a player literally blipping out of existence and appearing somewhere else back in season 2. They are definitely out there, but ranked isn't infested with them and I honestly haven't seen any cheaters in awhile. There's also always going to be win traders, especially in less popular games where its easier to do it, but it doesn't mean EVERYONE is doing it. Its also entirely possible Jay is just extremely good, but I don't really care enough about the top 10 to really look into what that player is doing because I've also been in similar scenarios in similarly less popular games like dead or alive 6 where the skill level is extremely low on the xbox compared to playstation as all the good players play on playstation and I would routinely go on 50+ win streaks and topped the leaderboards for several characters. Got called a win trader/cheater quite frequently, so excuse me if I tend to not jump down on every claim that someone is cheating just because they are better than me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

The only reason I play ranked is for the skill level. Playing casual mode with jobs you're trying to learn is all fine and dandy, but with the jobs you actually have experience with, it's just seal clubbing, and it doesn't challenge you nor punish you for playing sloppy.

---

Ya which is why it really sucks that queue times are so long for ranked.

Cause adding deranks killed ranking wither or not people felt it needed to be there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remish

Cause adding deranks killed ranking wither or not people felt it needed to be there.

---

Rank would have eventually died or been inaccessible from the bottom if there was no rank demotion. The signs were there in season 2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remish

Cause adding deranks killed ranking wither or not people felt it needed to be there.

---

Ah yes, the deranking. Which existed for twenty seasons and got shelved for two seasons, only to be reintroduced because skating yourself as a corpse into crystal turns out to be rather unhealthy for that rank and keeping lower end skill queues like bronze and silver running.

It absolutely had nothing to do with the fact they reused he exact same reward for five seasons in a row which is just a bunch of mediocre repeating portrait elements and excess casual currency Trophy crystals.

Let's stop pretending, come on...

PvP is basically a minigame for FFXIV. 90% of the playerbase will do it only for the current season rewards. I honestly think its funny that there's toxicity at high ranking considering people are literally being toxic with a broken and unbalanced system. I think most players will see somebody with a crystal border and just laugh. "Wow, he really spent his time doing that."

People love to claim this isn't true but numbers show.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hopebot

PvP is basically a minigame for FFXIV. 90% of the playerbase will do it only for the current season rewards. I honestly think its funny that there's toxicity at high ranking considering people are literally being toxic with a broken and unbalanced system. I think most players will see somebody with a crystal border and just laugh. "Wow, he really spent his time doing that."

People love to claim this isn't true but numbers show.

---

I got to crystal for the first 3 seasons because I legitimately like the mode... Shocking I know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Ah yes, the deranking. Which existed for twenty seasons and got shelved for two seasons, only to be reintroduced because skating yourself as a corpse into crystal turns out to be rather unhealthy for that rank and keeping lower end skill queues like bronze and silver running.

It absolutely had nothing to do with the fact they reused he exact same reward for five seasons in a row which is just a bunch of mediocre repeating portrait elements and excess casual currency Trophy crystals.

Let's stop pretending, come on...

---

Well if we want to stop pretending, it was only the same maybe 500 people playing ranked in Feast anyway. You can look at most top 100 leaderboards and see the exact same people reappear over and over and over. Some of those people even have their alts in there and on multiple data centers! It was never popular with or without alternating rewards. And that's the reality of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remish

Well if we want to stop pretending, it was only the same maybe 500 people playing ranked in Feast anyway. You can look at most top 100 leaderboards and see the exact same people reappear over and over and over. Some of those people even have their alts in there and on multiple data centers! It was never popular with or without alternating rewards. And that's the reality of it.

---

It was the same reality over and over because the incentive for individual skill tiers (Diamond down to Bronze) was paltry Wolf Collars which you needed ten for a single weapon and that was the end of it.

It also was the same reality over and over because because Feast while leaning on the classic trinity roles was stuck with enforced roles of which some were boring or staright up too stressful for many, leading to queue deficits both in late-season Ranked and Training Mode as a whole.

Like I don't understand how noone seem to or wants to understand that success of ranked depends on more than one variable at a time.

EDIT: Like there are multiple checkboxes a good ranked mode needs to fill out.

1.) Is the mode restricted in matchmaking and if, does it have tools do deal with imbalances?
2.) Is the mode easy to access and pick up?
3.) Is the Ranked Mode fundamentally similar to an Unranked mode, therefore learnable outside?
4.) Does the mode offer incentive corresponding to the time investment and/or exclusive to the mode, available to a large group of players?
5.) Does the mode support higher ranks with additional sought-after incentive to ensure that competition in the top ranks remain fierce for competitive integrity?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remish

Well if we want to stop pretending, it was only the same maybe 500 people playing ranked in Feast anyway. You can look at most top 100 leaderboards and see the exact same people reappear over and over and over. Some of those people even have their alts in there and on multiple data centers! It was never popular with or without alternating rewards. And that's the reality of it.

---

this is funny considering in another thread i pretty much said something to the effect of "the top 100 are usually gaming the system somehow".

Wait for unranked: less than 60 sconds
Wait for ranked: 25 minutes

Because there are no real rewards.

Some ppl, including myself already said the warnings about the rank changes will kill that mode especially rank decay. Now it’s just cope for rank matches. The top players got what they wanted while the vast majority is in casual. Even if they create rewards for rank mode, the dmg is already done….

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

Look, I never said there are no cheaters. I have a clip from my stream of a player literally blipping out of existence and appearing somewhere else back in season 2. They are definitely out there, but ranked isn't infested with them and I honestly haven't seen any cheaters in awhile. There's also always going to be win traders, especially in less popular games where its easier to do it, but it doesn't mean EVERYONE is doing it. Its also entirely possible Jay is just extremely good, but I don't really care enough about the top 10 to really look into what that player is doing because I've also been in similar scenarios in similarly less popular games like dead or alive 6 where the skill level is extremely low on the xbox compared to playstation as all the good players play on playstation and I would routinely go on 50+ win streaks and topped the leaderboards for several characters. Got called a win trader/cheater quite frequently, so excuse me if I tend to not jump down on every claim that someone is cheating just because they are better than me.



Ya which is why it really sucks that queue times are so long for ranked.

---

It doesn't matter if everyone is doing it or only the top ranked players. People who abused and cheated their way to top ranks for best rewards are still walking around freely, even when they were mass reported with evidence of their abuse. Therefor I have zero interest in ever trying for said ranks ever again. Thanks to these people who ruined it for the rest and Square Enix not taking action against cheaters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meowdyj

It doesn't matter if everyone is doing it or only the top ranked players. People who abused and cheated their way to top ranks for best rewards are still walking around freely, even when they were mass reported with evidence of their abuse. Therefor I have zero interest in ever trying for said ranks ever again. Thanks to these people who ruined it for the rest and Square Enix not taking action against cheaters.

---

yup, and this is why nobody really cares about ranked... not to mention has anybody else noticed that people on these forums will only post about FL or RW related stuff 98% of the time?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

yup, and this is why nobody really cares about ranked... not to mention has anybody else noticed that people on these forums will only post about FL or RW related stuff 98% of the time?

---

FL has a design of combat problem, RW has a queue/incentive problem (i.e. lack of at least a daily challenge).

CC casual generally doesn't have a problem and CC ranked has an incentive problem to keep player retention throughout a season and to get more people to play ranked in general.

It isn't surprising that the two of three casual modes with issues since pre 5.1 PvP and most importantly post 6.1x pvp (damage reductions) that also let you queue with friends tend to be highly discussed, so not sure what you are getting at.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

FL has a design of combat problem, RW has a queue/incentive problem (i.e. lack of at least a daily challenge).

CC casual generally doesn't have a problem and CC ranked has an incentive problem to keep player retention throughout a season and to get more people to play ranked in general.

It isn't surprising that the two of three casual modes with issues since pre 5.1 PvP and most importantly post 6.1x pvp (damage reductions) that also let you queue with friends tend to be highly discussed, so not sure what you are getting at.

---

what im getting at? oh thats simple buddy ol pal!

barely anybody cares about ranked because by nature ff14 is a casual game :)

the fact that they NEED incentives to even get people to play it is proof enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

what im getting at? oh thats simple buddy ol pal!

barely anybody cares about ranked because by nature ff14 is a casual game :)

the fact that they NEED incentives to even get people to play it is proof enough.

---

You are wording it like everything else in this game would be done without any incentive behind it.

Look at Criterion. Technically cool content, but fallen to the wayside. Why? Because the incentive is shit if not nonexistent.

Prior to the release of Normal Raid and Alliance Raid roulette, how difficult was it to get into raids bsck then? Very, because turns out people value their time and want something for joining old raids, even if it is just a decent amount of EXP and tomestones.

MSQ Roulette got the insane boost to EXP and tomestones multiple times to encourage participation, especially after the cutscene lock.

And don't get me started on Frontlines. Back when you could freely choose between three maps, Shatter was the most picked because it was the fastest and simplest. And even then, they had 8v8v8 for low participation to let games start and Daily Challenge got added as additional incentive.

Rival Wings by the way is the perfect example of a casual mode struggling to breathe without dedicated community support like RevivalWings organised events or Moogle Treasure Trove because it turns out unlike Frontlines, it has no additional challenge daily to encourage daily participation and has the same base rewards as FL.

So much for that casual FFXIV argument. This is literally just modern game design, something players naturally align with.

So I'm sure you have a massive e-boner everytime you see one of my posts despite having claimed to block me and feel the need to call me buddy, pal etc. and try to one-up me with your snarky comments, but at least don't be a hypocrite like "the fact it needs incentive proves XY" when you can apply the same damn logic over the entire game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

You are wording it like everything else in this game would be done without any incentive behind it.

Look at Criterion. Technically cool content, but fallen to the wayside. Why? Because the incentive is shit if not nonexistent.

Prior to the release of Normal Raid and Alliance Raid roulette, how difficult was it to get into raids bsck then? Very, because turns out people value their time and want something for joining old raids, even if it is just a decent amount of EXP and tomestones.

MSQ Roulette got the insane boost to EXP and tomestones multiple times to encourage participation, especially after the cutscene lock.

And don't get me started on Frontlines. Back when you could freely choose between three maps, Shatter was the most picked because it was the fastest and simplest. And even then, they had 8v8v8 for low participation to let games start and Daily Challenge got added as additional incentive.

Rival Wings by the way is the perfect example of a casual mode struggling to breathe without dedicated community support like RevivalWings organised events or Moogle Treasure Trove because it turns out unlike Frontlines, it has no additional challenge daily to encourage daily participation and has the same base rewards as FL.

So much for that casual FFXIV argument. This is literally just modern game design, something players naturally align with.

So I'm sure you have a massive e-boner everytime you see one of my posts despite having claimed to block me and feel the need to call me buddy, pal etc. and try to one-up me with your snarky comments, but at least don't be a hypocrite like "the fact it needs incentive proves XY" when you can apply the same damn logic over the entire game.

---

what you said disproves literally nothing i said, infact you proved me right...
hell i'll even add to it by saying, if something is not deemed FUN in ff14 people wont do it unless there is enough incentive which is why you see ranked CC die but unranked flourish, the varient dungeons are in the same boat as CC lol people bullrush through it and walk away from it.

at this point you're just arguing for the sake of argument which.... kinda makes you look a bit silly :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

what you said disproves literally nothing i said, infact you proved me right...
hell i'll even add to it by saying, if something is not deemed FUN in ff14 people wont do it unless there is enough incentive which is why you see ranked CC die but unranked flourish, the varient dungeons are in the same boat as CC lol people bullrush through it and walk away from it.

at this point you're just arguing for the sake of argument which.... kinda makes you look a bit silly :/

---

I never intended to disprove it, I merely gave insight that reliance on incentive is something realistically every single activity in this game has in common to facilitate longterm play.

The fun argument obviously matters, but it is more delicate in CC. Regardless whether you play casual or ranked, you play the exact same game, the sole difference being:

- framer kits you likely just go and obtain once
- surplus Trophy Crystals hardly anyone cares for
- a more restricted queue attempting to build balanced matches

All in all, this means Ranked introduces stress points Casual doesnt have, in Ranks and rating. There is also the queue restrictions based on your Rank, which ups queue times to build matches.

Since there is frankly no simple incentive to play Ranked over Casual other than trying to play with the top end of PvPers for your own fun, it creates exactly what you describe:

Casual flourishes, Ranked dies.

Something simple like a ranked-only currency youd get from playing per match win and a bigger amount at season's end based on your skill tier would be a good start to set it apart from Casual. Like many games with Ranked/Competitive modes.

Naturally it should come with items of interest, which I am sure anyone has their belief on what that would be and something I won't judge anymore for their choice.