Sage Needs More Options to Generate Addersting

I know there's already a Sage Suggestion thread, but I want to focus this topic on the job's Addersting mechanic. As you know, Addersting is granted whenever SGE's GCD shield heal is absorbed. While a decent mechanic overall, I think the job could use other mechanics to generate Addersting so that we can use Toxikon more. Note, my SGE is only at level 74, but I still want to post my thoughts on the job's mechanic.

The game's fights are choreographed and we all know that damage output when fighting mobs/bosses is not high or constant enough for SGE's to gain more Addersting.

SE, Yoshi-P, if you really are paying attention to what we are posting on the official forums like you say you are, please hear me, and the other healer mains out. The change for having maxed out Addersting at the start of a fight was a good step forward, so keep it up. Also, please have Toxikon remain as a GCD ability.

As of right now, I can think of three possible ways we can generate more Addersting.

The first is to rework the level 74 ability, Rhizomata. Instead of granting one Addersgall, it instead grants the SGE one Addersting. We generate enough Addersgall, so perhaps reworking this skill to add Addersting instead would great.

- If you want to keep the old Rhizomata, just pull it back somewhere in the lower levels, maybe in the level 60 to 70 range, and then introduce the reworked skill at level 74 with a new name.

The second option is for us to generate Addersting every time a Addersgall spell is used. A fair trade off. Use a healing ability in order to gain a use for Toxikon. This might encourage overhealing and some might consider to be overpowered.

We can find a middle ground. Perhaps an Addersting isn't guaranteed after using an Addersgall spell. Maybe design it so that there's only a certain percentage where you gain an Addersting slot.

- For example, using an Addersgall spell has a 30% to 45% chance it will convert to an Addersting slot on use.

SGE generates one Addersting after the timer of Eukrasian Dosis III runs out on an enemy NPC. You apply the DoT, wait for the 30sec timer to run out and then SGE earns a Addersting. That way, gaining Addersting is still tied to a GCD. And a dps GCD no less. It's be great for new players too because it will encourage them to maintain their DoT up after it expires.

Overall, here is my feedback:

• Rework Rhizomata so that it will gain Addersting instead of Addersgall
• Or gain Addersting after using a Addergall spell
• Or generate Addersting after the timer of Eukrasian Dosis III runs out

I'm not asking SE to implement all three of these changes at once. Just one or the other. Also, if they can add one more dps skill for SGE, that would be great.

With these changes, I think we can somewhat alleviate some of the Dosis spam that SGE's are currently having at this point. It's not much but it's definitely something. If anyone else has any suggestions, feel free to post them here.

Addersting just needs to be reworked.

As it stands, it's not satisfying in any conceivable way and is an aggressively convoluted way of getting a highly limited amount of ARR/HW Ruin II. Because that's what it is. Ruin II used to be the same potency as your Ruin or Broil and just costed more MP. You had the freedom to use it as needed without losing DPS without feeling obligated to spam it. I have no idea why it was ruined, but that's healer design for you.

Toxikon should not be that, but there are several issues that we run into trying to create an easy solution to the problem. To address your suggestions, you cannot have Toxikon be truly DPS neutral when you can generate it both on and off the GCD. If we boosted it to 660 potency, it would be DPS neutral with E. Diagnosis, but a 330 potency gain to use Rhizomata on cooldown, and you'd want to save your Addersgall for burst windows, ignoring their healing value in some cases because that would help you push out numbers.

Leaving Toxikon on the GCD and leaving methods to generate it on the GCD has the potential to make SGE gameplay more fun and diverse because that helps take you away from Dosis spam which is what all of us want to see from all the healers, but it needs to be obtainable in ways that makes it DPS neutral or a gain, but we also can't just buff the potency because then SGE spams E. Diagnosis instead of Dosis in most occasions, because you get the same amount of damage and healing/shielding for only 100 more MP.

Making E. Diagnosis not a total joke of an ability and allowing it to break up Dosis spam through Toxikon is a great idea, but it needs to work without invalidating Toxikon either, essentially.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

snip

---

How about this suggestion? SGE generates one Addersting after the timer of Eukrasian Dosis III runs out on an enemy NPC. You apply the DoT, wait for the 30sec timer to run out and then SGE earns a Addersting. That way, gaining Addersting is still tied to a GCD. And a dps GCD no less. It's be great for new players too because it will encourage them to maintain their DoT up after it expires.

If the dps numbers are too high, then perhaps we can nerf the potencies of either spells (or both) to keep it balanced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by currentlemon

How about this suggestion? SGE generates one Addersting after the timer of Eukrasian Dosis III runs out on an enemy NPC. You apply the DoT, wait for the 30sec timer to run out and then SGE earns a Addersting. That way, gaining Addersting is still tied to a GCD. And a dps GCD no less. It's be great for new players too because it will encourage them to maintain their DoT up after it expires.

If the dps numbers are too high, then perhaps we can nerf the potencies of either spells (or both) to keep it balanced.

---

If it's gained through E. Dosis, it's not actually a gain unless the potency is increased. It's neutral, but there's no interaction with that system. You just get a charge of Ruin II every 30 seconds because you're keeping DoT uptime on the boss. If it does have higher potency, then it is a gain, but generating Addersting isn't something you do so much as it is something that is a consequential effect of proper DoT management, but also punishes you if you reapply E. Dosis too soon, like the buff is at 0 seconds but is only about to fall off. That could actually get really annoying for a lot of players and would be heavily punishing if Toxikon was in fact a gain. It would make more sense at that point to just generate it automatically like with Addersgall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

snip

---

Would my second option be no good either? Having Addersting generate after using a Addergall spell sounds good on paper, but I know next to nothing when it comes to numbers. If generating Addersting from Addergall spells is too powerful, perhaps it shouldn't be 100% guarantee. Maybe only have a 30-45% chance of Addersting generating after an Addergall spell is used.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by currentlemon

Would my second option be no good either? Having Addersting generate after using a Addergall spell sounds good on paper, but I know next to nothing when it comes to numbers. If generating Addersting from Addergall spells is too powerful, perhaps it shouldn't be 100% guarantee. Maybe only have a 30-45% chance of Addersting generating after an Addergall spell is used.

---

The biggest issue with Addersgall generating Addersting occurs regardless of whether or not the chance is 100% or less. It would be a DPS gain, which would be great on the gameplay feel of Addersting usage, but you'd be heavily incentivized to burn all your Addersting and Rhizomata exclusively for your 2 minute raid buffs. This would result in an excessive amount of overhealing during that time and a depletion of healing resources as well as would erase Rhizomata's current function in favor of being used on cooldown for DPS gains. Even if it's only a chance, you'd still burn all your Addersgall in hopes of generating Addersting during that window.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

snip

---

I see. So, I guess it's back to the drawing board then. My opinion hasn't changed regarding the need for more Addersting generation, but my ideas are heavily flawed. I just wish there were more ways we can use Toxikon. It's a really cool ability in my opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by currentlemon

I see. So, I guess it's back to the drawing board then. My opinion hasn't changed regarding the need for more Addersting generation, but my ideas are heavily flawed. I just wish there were more ways we can use Toxikon. It's a really cool ability in my opinion.

---

It's difficult because any time you try to connect DPS and healing tools, it becomes easy to invalidate one side or the other. If it's a DPS loss, like the old Misery for example, then sure it's nice that you get a partial reimbursement, but people will actively try to avoid that resource because DPS is the metric of which we measure healer efficacy with. If it's a DPS gain, then the healing gets ignored in favor of getting as much of the DPS as possible. If it's DPS neutral, then you've just swapped button spam from one button to a new button and doesn't really resolve the issue.

My best suggestion at the moment:

Addersting and Addersgall:
- Consuming Addersgall now grands Adderscoil for 20 seconds. The first cast of E. Diagnosis or E. Prognosis while under the effects of Adderscoil now grants Addersting. You must wait until Adderscoil wears off before another can be applied. This creates a more consistent way of generating Addersting while also putting restriction on your ability to generate Addersting endlessly.
- Addersting is no longer gained when the E. Diagnosis barrier is consumed.

- Toxikon: 330 Potency for the first enemy and 75% less for all remaining enemies. Costs 700 MP and does not consume Addersting. Upgrades into Toxikon II with Addersting (Potency is updated alongside Dosis upgrades.)
- Toxikon II: 660 Potency for the first enemy and 50% less for all remaining enemies. Costs 0 MP and consumes 1 Addersting. (Potency is updated alongside Dosis upgrades.)

- Sage Continuation Combo a 4-part combo between two buttons, one GCD, one OGCD.
GCD 1: 330 Potency for the first enemy and 50% less for all remaining enemies. Costs 0 MP and consumes 1 Addersting. Enables OGCD 2. Has a 60 second cooldown.
OGCD 2: 330 Potency for the first enemy and 50% less for all remaining enemies. Enables GCD 3
GCD 3: 495 Potency for the first enemy and 50% less for all remaining enemies. Enables OGCD 4
OGCD 4: 495 Potency for the first enemy and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
- It's a shorter continuation that costs 1 Addersting on a cooldown and is a DPS gain - 1650 potency over 3 actions (when including Addersting generation) in contrast to 3 Dosis IIIs for 990 potency.

New GCD: Triggers Kardia and grants Addersting. Has a 60 second cooldown

Overall: The rest of Sage's kit would need to be reorganized slightly to make better room for this new system, but you'd have something much more rewarding and consistent while allowing Sage to retain the unupgraded Toxikon as a mobility tool at the cost of more MP. By filtering Addersting generation through Adderscoil, it's easier to try and prevent overuse of of GCD heals.

I think, this is a point better reserved for 7.0. The most obvious addition being Enhanced Rhizomata giving one Addersting in addition.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EhvaTaco

I think, this is a point better reserved for 7.0. The most obvious addition being Enhanced Rhizomata giving one Addersting in addition.

---

My favorite part about discussing Sage is when I go to great lengths to discuss why Rhizomata should not generate Addersting only for someone to immediately say "Just give Rhizomata Addersting" as if my existence is a figment of my own imagination.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

My favorite part about discussing Sage is when I go to great lengths to discuss why Rhizomata should not generate Addersting only for someone to immediately say "Just give Rhizomata Addersting" as if my existence is a figment of my own imagination.

---

Oh, don't be such an Emet-Sulk. We got a vocal minority of SMN decriers for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by currentlemon

Overall, here is my feedback:

• Rework Rhizomata so that it will gain Addersting instead of Addersgall
• Or gain Addersting after using a Addergall spell
• Or generate Addersting after the timer of Eukrasian Dosis III runs out

---

Rhizomata is typically best used to gain more Gall in tight spots. If anything, I think the cooldown should be doubled but have it grant 2 Gall or even 3 instead. However, a short cooldown with 1 Gall has its merit, too. Both have their ups and downs.

Gaining Sting after Gall is something I can totally agree with. Maybe not in a 1:1 ratio though but perhaps 1:2 or 1:3. Making SGE earn Stings through consistent use would feel more rewarding.

As for Dosis management... I don't think this is a good point. You never want your dots to run out. You want them to keep ticking continously without interrruption. BRDs and old SMN players will attest to that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

The biggest issue with Addersgall generating Addersting occurs regardless of whether or not the chance is 100% or less. It would be a DPS gain, which would be great on the gameplay feel of Addersting usage, but you'd be heavily incentivized to burn all your Addersting and Rhizomata exclusively for your 2 minute raid buffs. This would result in an excessive amount of overhealing during that time and a depletion of healing resources as well as would erase Rhizomata's current function in favor of being used on cooldown for DPS gains. Even if it's only a chance, you'd still burn all your Addersgall in hopes of generating Addersting during that window.

---

The solution here would be to allow addersgall to generate addersting (or even a fractional amount), but then add in a second addersting skill specifically for raid buffing and leave Toxikon as the same potency as Dosis to keep it DPS Neutral, yet flexible for weaving and mobility purposes. This implementation would however give a lot more weave windows and free mobility to Sage, but the exact amount of extra Toxikon uses can be adjusted based on the speed at which addersting generates.

At any rate, they might as well just remove the Ruin II restriction on Scholar and give AST more mobility with an instant-cast movement tool outside of lightspeed.

Just ideas to bounce around, seeing as healer gameplay is heavily restricted as a result of a lack of alternatives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

The solution here would be to allow addersgall to generate addersting (or even a fractional amount), but then add in a second addersting skill specifically for raid buffing and leave Toxikon as the same potency as Dosis to keep it DPS Neutral, yet flexible for weaving and mobility purposes. This implementation would however give a lot more weave windows and free mobility to Sage, but the exact amount of extra Toxikon uses can be adjusted based on the speed at which addersting generates.

At any rate, they might as well just remove the Ruin II restriction on Scholar and give AST more mobility with an instant-cast movement tool outside of lightspeed.

Just ideas to bounce around, seeing as healer gameplay is heavily restricted as a result of a lack of alternatives.

---

Or just do what PvP does and have Toxikon I cost no addersting and be the ruin II people seem to want and upgrade it’s potency under addersting so that way it’s also an actually interesting gauge mechanic.

Having a gauge exclusively revolving around ruin II is just bad.

At this point Rhizomata giving addersting is the fix that sounds more realistic to me.

Personally, altough unlikely, I would like in the future to see much more of this mechanic like Eukrasian toxicon and toxicon working as a combo one powering the other and being dps gains when used like that, an ofensive cd that gives addersting on top doing more (an eukrasian like offensive combo is the idea that I think it would work the most), toxicon reducing the cd of other skills, creating a gauge that once filled gives addersting and requires offensive actions to be filled, Prognosis giving addersting like diagnosis (something as simple as "if the shield of someone under the effects of kardion is broken gives 1 addersting"), pepsis giving addersting if by breaking a shield fulfills the condition of said shields to give addersting even a cd that makes the gcd heals give 2 addersting instead of 1. They can really do a lot but I doubt we'll see any change until 7.0 at the earliest if we're lucky

I personally think addersting works fine. There's literally no situation in the game right now where you don't have or can't generate enough of them. They should keep it as is. It gives people something to work towards and improve their skills on. And god knows healers don't have enough of that right now. Last thing we need is for SE to dumb down yet another healer mechanic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaMett

I personally think addersting works fine. There's literally no situation in the game right now where you don't have or can't generate enough of them. They should keep it as is. It gives people something to work towards and improve their skills on. And god knows healers don't have enough of that right now. Last thing we need is for SE to dumb down yet another healer mechanic.

---

I think you're thinking of Addersgall. Addersting is what gives you Ruin II

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I think you're thinking of Addersgall. Addersting is what gives you Ruin II

---

I'm talking about Addertsting. Toxicon II is a mobility tool and there's nothing wrong with it in its current implementation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaMett

I'm talking about Addertsting. Toxicon II is a mobility tool and there's nothing wrong with it in its current implementation.

---

But you regularly don't have Addersting and frequently have no way to generate it without losing DPS which counteracts your previous statement. But I veto that Ruin II is a singular entity worthy of a gauge mechanic. If that were the case, then ARR and HW SCH had multiple gauge worthy spells.

Literally just do this:

1. Remove Dyskrasia
2. Learn Toxikon at level 46
3. Toxikon: Potency upgrades with Dosis to always match. Deals full damage to the first target and 50% less for all remaining enemies. Costs 700 MP. Does not consume Addersting.
4. Learn Toxikon II at level 50
5. Toxikon II: Potency upgrades to be twice your current Dosis. Toxikon upgrades to Toxikon II when you have Addersting. Deals full damage to the first target and 50% less for all remaining enemies. Costs 0 MP. Consumes 1 Addersting.
6. When you cast Eukrasian Dosis, applies a buff to your Kardia target for 20 seconds. Casting Eukrasia Diagnosis or Eukrasia Prognosis on that target generates 1 Addersting and consumes that buff.

Now you get your Ruin II that also doubles as your AoE button. We prune 1 button off of Sage. Addersting becomes a more interesting mechanic. You can't spam Eukrasia Diagnosis for Addersting now as it's attached to your DoT.

Now look me in the eyes and tell me how much worse of a system that is then getting Ruin II whenever your Eukrasia Diagnosis barrier breaks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaMett

I personally think addersting works fine. There's literally no situation in the game right now where you don't have or can't generate enough of them. They should keep it as is. It gives people something to work towards and improve their skills on. And god knows healers don't have enough of that right now. Last thing we need is for SE to dumb down yet another healer mechanic.

---

Since when is using a shield on someone "something to work towards" and "something to improve their skills on"? What work? What skills?

Addersting it's a waste of UI space, a mechanic completely dependent on fight downtime and essentially Ruin II with extra steps. It's not interesting, it's not complex, it doesn't interact with your healing kit in a way that suits the current healer design and your comment explained why very well. It just wasn't intentional.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

But you regularly don't have Addersting and frequently have no way to generate it without losing DPS which counteracts your previous statement.

---

You can handle all movement in every encounter so far with 3 start Adderstings and generating new ones during downtime.
If you find yourself needing more then there are areas you can improve on. And this isn't new to optimized strats or whatever else you can think of. This was true since week one of any of the encounters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rewd

Since when is using a shield on someone "something to work towards" and "something to improve their skills on"? What work? What skills?

---

Getting the Addersting isn't particularly engaging (minus a couple of difficult downtime portions, and btw none of the suggestions made here change that either), but placement, slidecasting, and timing are skill-based and will prevent you from spending your Addersting and running out. Figuring out when and where to use Toxicon II in order to not lose dps to mobility and open mini burst heal windows is a good optimization mechanic. The current balance (from all the encounters we've seen so far) has made it challenging enough and a lot of fun IMO.
If you were to say, straight up remove toxicon II, the sage gameplay would take a serious hit and wouldn't be anywhere as fun to optimize. So it isn't just useless button bloat. It would be exactly in the same vein as how shifting SCH over to a 2.5s cast ruined the entire optimization cycle of SCH and made the class even more boring to play than it already was.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaMett

You can handle all movement in every encounter so far with 3 start Adderstings and generating new ones during downtime.
If you find yourself needing more then there are areas you can improve on. And this isn't new to optimized strats or whatever else you can think of. This was true since week one of any of the encounters.


Getting the Addersting isn't particularly engaging (minus a couple of difficult downtime portions, and btw none of the suggestions made here change that either), but placement, slidecasting, and timing are skill-based and will prevent you from spending your Addersting and running out. Figuring out when and where to use Toxicon II in order to not lose dps to mobility and open mini burst heal windows is a good optimization mechanic. The current balance (from all the encounters we've seen so far) has made it challenging enough and a lot of fun IMO.
If you were to say, straight up remove toxicon II, the sage gameplay would take a serious hit and wouldn't be anywhere as fun to optimize. So it isn't just useless button bloat. It would be exactly in the same vein as how shifting SCH over to a 2.5s cast ruined the entire optimization cycle of SCH and made the class even more boring to play than it already was.

---

Your statements are contradicting themselves. "There's nothing wrong with Addersting." "You can handle all movement in every encounter so far with 3 start Adderstings" Ah yes, a GCD button you never need more than 3 times in an instance sounds like an amazing gauge mechanic. "If you were to say, straight up remove toxikon II, the sage gameplay would take a serious hit and wouldn't be anywhere as fun to optimize." But you JUST said that you use it less than 3 times per instance. Not every fight even has downtime to get any more than that. Also I've taken Toxikon II off my hotbar because it's such a colossal disappointment and I notice no difference because I can avoid using it all the time anyway with E. Dosis and Phelgma.

Also, you completely ignored my fix to Addersting which gives you what you want: Ruin II, and allows Addersting to not be one of the most flaccid gauges in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Your statements are contradicting themselves. "There's nothing wrong with Addersting." "You can handle all movement in every encounter so far with 3 start Adderstings" Ah yes, a GCD button you never need more than 3 times in an instance sounds like an amazing gauge mechanic. "If you were to say, straight up remove toxikon II, the sage gameplay would take a serious hit and wouldn't be anywhere as fun to optimize." But you JUST said that you use it less than 3 times per instance. Not every fight even has downtime to get any more than that. Also I've taken Toxikon II off my hotbar because it's such a colossal disappointment and I notice no difference because I can avoid using it all the time anyway with E. Dosis and Phelgma.

Also, you completely ignored my fix to Addersting which gives you what you want: Ruin II, and allows Addersting to not be one of the most flaccid gauges in the game.

---

There are a LOT of skills you can't use more than 3 times in a fight. Are we supposed to remove all of those too? That's not a valid argument.
It's not about how often you can use a skill in a fight. It's about what gameplay derives from that ability and what it brings to your role.

Healers right now have a huge issue. That issue is that they have basic gameplay with very low difficulty and once you get to grips with them they leave you with no room to grow since the skill ceiling is so low. It's good for beginners but when you get better they just become boring.
Having a few abilities that are harder to use right should be cherished, not ironed out.
Addersting being a limited resource is the point. You need to put some thought into your placement and movement because of that. If you can get away without using Toxicon at all then you need to teach me your masterful ways. I'm not there yet.

And I did see your comment and I think it's a bad idea. That just means that you'll spend your fights throwing out empty heals just to get infinite movement and extra damage. And when it lines up correctly, it'll give you more healing when we already have too much. That would completely dumb the job down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaMett

There are a LOT of skills you can't use more than 3 times in a fight. Are we supposed to remove all of those too? That's not a valid argument.
It's not about how often you can use a skill in a fight. It's about what gameplay derives from that ability and what it brings to your role.

Healers right now have a huge issue. That issue is that they have basic gameplay with very low difficulty and once you get to grips with them they leave you with no room to grow since the skill ceiling is so low. It's good for beginners but when you get better they just become boring.
Having a few abilities that are harder to use right should be cherished, not ironed out.
Addersting being a limited resource is the point. You need to put some thought into your placement and movement because of that. If you can get away without using Toxicon at all then you need to teach me your masterful ways. I'm not there yet.

And I did see your comment and I think it's a bad idea. That just means that you'll spend your fights throwing out empty heals just to get infinite movement and extra damage. And when it lines up correctly, it'll give you more healing when we already have too much. That would completely dumb the job down.

---

And Ruin II has never been one of those skills. Sure you only use Macrocosmos 2-3 times in a raid, but it's an incredibly powerful and game-changing effect. Getting 2.5 seconds of mobility is not, especially when you have 2 other instant cast DPS spells. The gains you actually receive from 3 Toxikon IIs is also so negligible that it may as well not exist anyway. E. Dosis conveniently comes up during movement phases occasionally enough in a lot of content and otherwise I just use Phelgma III. Instead of just burning Phlegma as it comes off CD, I save it till around 5 seconds before gaining a second charge to use it unless I need movement first or burning both during burst windows when possible. Toxikon II as a mobility tool is entirely irrelevant to me. Yes I can see the theoretical advantage, but I do not think that warrants some limited use restriction.

I also find it insulting because SCH was legitimately the only job I played during ARR and I loved it. Ruin II used to be the same potency as Ruin during ARR and was increased in power to match Broil during HW at the cost of being double the MP. That was a great system. It gave you mobility and weaving power at the cost of additional MP--not enough to bleed you dry with moderated usage, but enough to bleed you dry if you spammed it. It's insulting that they took that away from us only to give it back to Sage as the "selling point" of their gauge, which in actuality is a failed system. The fact that they had to give us Addersting for free at the start proves that.

By replacing Dyskrasia with Toxikon in the way I proposed, we not only trim down bloat, but create a dual-purpose function to our AoE button rather than it be an entirely useless button in the majority of content outside of dungeon trash, which is a good thing. Additionally, by costing more MP, you're not obligated to spam it and do need to monitor your use of it as a mobility tool because overuse can burn you. It's not preventing you from overusing it, but giving you the choice to use it at your discretion, which I would argue is far more interesting than just saying "here's 3 uses of it. Don't waste them."

Meanwhile, by allowing it to upgrade into a DPS neutral Toxikon II, we not only have the Ruin II you desire with more meaningful choice, but we also make the gauge system actually desirable and make tactical use of GCD healing something Sages actually do rather than nearly never. That takes focus away from Dosis III in favor of windows where E. Diagnosis/Prognosis can be used. If you want to throw out empty heals with that kind of change then that's your decision, but I'd want to use that window to use those heals at opportune moments rather than just immediately burning them.

There are other things that would be worth addressing to better balance Sage around that system, like slimming down other healing options in our OGCD library since that is a bunch of additional healing as well as adding a new tool to help ensure you have an Addersting during burst windows and another way to spend it (Sage Continuation). But that would likely not happen till most likely a new expansion patch, or maybe 6.3. I have absolutely no idea how you could see it as dumbing down the job, though as it does anything but.

Ensuring proper DoT management because far more important because falling asleep and forgetting to reapply your DoT hurts you more, you have more opportunities to make meaningful decisions with how you use your Toxikon, there's more emphasis on preparing your resources for burst windows, and a good Sage will make their GCD heals count rather than wasting them. Also, it further helps reinforce Sage's identity as a barrier healer which is something that they barely do outside of Haima/Panhaima currently, which isn't that a huge goal we want as a healer community?

I think it would not take much to fix this. I like the way we generate Addersting, but the problem is that it is inefficient and usually a DPS loss. Because you'll prioritise more efficient healing methods when they're available and you'll not use a less efficient healing method for a DPS skill when doing so is a DPS loss.

So either:
- We need to rely on that shield more ergo we generate Addersting more frequently
- We need the same method to be a DPS gain.

I feel the second option is likely easier to balance. Because hey, I'm sure other healers don't mind a boost to damage too, especially if some of their problems get addressed through it.

We could:
- Have Toxicon get a potency boost
- Have 2 types of Toxicon, one for single target, one for multiple, so the single target one hits harder
- Have Toxicon hit harder for the first enemy
- Have Toxicon become an oGCD

I am against the 4th option because I feel it'd feel more like a SCH weaving Energy Drain (which is 'eh' IMO) than say, a DNC, weaving Fan Dance.

And we wouldn't need more methods to generate Addersting, but incentivise us to use the existing method more. In a way, we'd also get a wider use of our healing toolkit, but it's rarer we use our GCD heals and there's the bonus of having an incentive of not playing "how low can you go?" which would alleviate some of the "healers don't heal" complaints, because you'd be shielding people a lot...and ultimately, that's what they're wanting us to do as Shield healers.

Personally I think that Taurocole was supposed to be the Addersting generator. Currently it has a raw heal AND mitigation on it, which means that at any given time you're wasting a part of it. If the heal was a shield instead, that gives an sting on break, that would make WAY more sense from a job design standpoint.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaMett

There are a LOT of skills you can't use more than 3 times in a fight. Are we supposed to remove all of those too? That's not a valid argument.
It's not about how often you can use a skill in a fight. It's about what gameplay derives from that ability and what it brings to your role.

---

It certainly is a valid argument if you remove the entire Reaper Enshroud, replace it with the Soulsow mechanic, and then call that a good gauge mechanic for reapers. The problem isn't a lack of addersting, it's calling that as a gauge that should only exist as the majority of the gameplay.

The whole point of addersting is as fulfilling to use as Soulsow and Harvest Moon when you want to use it properly. This is good for what it does, but not fulfilling if this should be the entire purpose of the gauge if it has very limited uses.

Certainly, having soulsow and Harvest moon is a great addition to the reaper toolkit, provided they have other things that also help with engagement. Healing is not engaging. There are strict limits to healing. No matter how much you optimize healing, you only start healing less. You don't use your healing tool as frequently when you get better - ergo you use your healing gauge less.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

It certainly is a valid argument if you remove the entire Reaper Enshroud, replace it with the Soulsow mechanic, and then call that a good gauge mechanic for reapers. The problem isn't a lack of addersting, it's calling that as a gauge that should only exist as the majority of the gameplay.

---

I think this is a fair point, but I wouldn't want to attribute too much importance to the gauge. As a reminder, the gauges were just added to provide visual clarity for skills that had stacks. For some classes those can be central to gameplay, and for others they just track items that could be in your statuses (stances, etc.) or stack counts on some skills. Addersting isn't on the gauge because it's something essential to the role. It's there for convenience and because there was enough room for it (and because they thought it was better to use than another stack/status). If we had a lot going and a bunch of other things to track on the gauge, they would just leave it as stacks/procs on your hotbar. (like how the dancer gauge doesn't track their dives)

My take: Make it work like it does in PvP. Toxicon I is on three charges with a short cooldown and it’s OGCD, you can use it whenever, it doesn’t cost any resources. Any shield you apply or adder’s gall you use had a chance to generate a sting, the sting upgrades it to toxicon 2 that just deals more damage. Maybe the vuln it gives in PvP could just come from toxicon 2.