Sage Needs More Options to Generate Addersting

[currentlemon]

I know there's already a Sage Suggestion thread, but I want to focus this topic on the job's Addersting mechanic. As you know, Addersting is granted whenever SGE's GCD shield heal is absorbed. While a decent mechanic overall, I think the job could use other mechanics to generate Addersting so that we can use Toxikon more. Note, my SGE is only at level 74, but I still want to post my thoughts on the job's mechanic.

The game's fights are choreographed and we all know that damage output when fighting mobs/bosses is not high or constant enough for SGE's to gain more Addersting.

SE, Yoshi-P, if you really are paying attention to what we are posting on the official forums like you say you are, please hear me, and the other healer mains out. The change for having maxed out Addersting at the start of a fight was a good step forward, so keep it up. Also, please have Toxikon remain as a GCD ability.

As of right now, I can think of three possible ways we can generate more Addersting.

The first is to rework the level 74 ability, Rhizomata. Instead of granting one Addersgall, it instead grants the SGE one Addersting. We generate enough Addersgall, so perhaps reworking this skill to add Addersting instead would great.

- If you want to keep the old Rhizomata, just pull it back somewhere in the lower levels, maybe in the level 60 to 70 range, and then introduce the reworked skill at level 74 with a new name.

The second option is for us to generate Addersting every time a Addersgall spell is used. A fair trade off. Use a healing ability in order to gain a use for Toxikon. This might encourage overhealing and some might consider to be overpowered.

We can find a middle ground. Perhaps an Addersting isn't guaranteed after using an Addersgall spell. Maybe design it so that there's only a certain percentage where you gain an Addersting slot.

- For example, using an Addersgall spell has a 30% to 45% chance it will convert to an Addersting slot on use.

SGE generates one Addersting after the timer of Eukrasian Dosis III runs out on an enemy NPC. You apply the DoT, wait for the 30sec timer to run out and then SGE earns a Addersting. That way, gaining Addersting is still tied to a GCD. And a dps GCD no less. It's be great for new players too because it will encourage them to maintain their DoT up after it expires.

Overall, here is my feedback:

• Rework Rhizomata so that it will gain Addersting instead of Addersgall
• Or gain Addersting after using a Addergall spell
• Or generate Addersting after the timer of Eukrasian Dosis III runs out

I'm not asking SE to implement all three of these changes at once. Just one or the other. Also, if they can add one more dps skill for SGE, that would be great.

With these changes, I think we can somewhat alleviate some of the Dosis spam that SGE's are currently having at this point. It's not much but it's definitely something. If anyone else has any suggestions, feel free to post them here.

[ty_taurus]

Addersting just needs to be reworked.

As it stands, it's not satisfying in any conceivable way and is an aggressively convoluted way of getting a highly limited amount of ARR/HW Ruin II. Because that's what it is. Ruin II used to be the same potency as your Ruin or Broil and just costed more MP. You had the freedom to use it as needed without losing DPS without feeling obligated to spam it. I have no idea why it was ruined, but that's healer design for you.

Toxikon should not be that, but there are several issues that we run into trying to create an easy solution to the problem. To address your suggestions, you cannot have Toxikon be truly DPS neutral when you can generate it both on and off the GCD. If we boosted it to 660 potency, it would be DPS neutral with E. Diagnosis, but a 330 potency gain to use Rhizomata on cooldown, and you'd want to save your Addersgall for burst windows, ignoring their healing value in some cases because that would help you push out numbers.

Leaving Toxikon on the GCD and leaving methods to generate it on the GCD has the potential to make SGE gameplay more fun and diverse because that helps take you away from Dosis spam which is what all of us want to see from all the healers, but it needs to be obtainable in ways that makes it DPS neutral or a gain, but we also can't just buff the potency because then SGE spams E. Diagnosis instead of Dosis in most occasions, because you get the same amount of damage and healing/shielding for only 100 more MP.

Making E. Diagnosis not a total joke of an ability and allowing it to break up Dosis spam through Toxikon is a great idea, but it needs to work without invalidating Toxikon either, essentially.

[currentlemon]

snip

How about this suggestion? SGE generates one Addersting after the timer of Eukrasian Dosis III runs out on an enemy NPC. You apply the DoT, wait for the 30sec timer to run out and then SGE earns a Addersting. That way, gaining Addersting is still tied to a GCD. And a dps GCD no less. It's be great for new players too because it will encourage them to maintain their DoT up after it expires.

If the dps numbers are too high, then perhaps we can nerf the potencies of either spells (or both) to keep it balanced.

[ty_taurus]

How about this suggestion? SGE generates one Addersting after the timer of Eukrasian Dosis III runs out on an enemy NPC. You apply the DoT, wait for the 30sec timer to run out and then SGE earns a Addersting. That way, gaining Addersting is still tied to a GCD. And a dps GCD no less. It's be great for new players too because it will encourage them to maintain their DoT up after it expires.

If the dps numbers are too high, then perhaps we can nerf the potencies of either spells (or both) to keep it balanced.

If it's gained through E. Dosis, it's not actually a gain unless the potency is increased. It's neutral, but there's no interaction with that system. You just get a charge of Ruin II every 30 seconds because you're keeping DoT uptime on the boss. If it does have higher potency, then it is a gain, but generating Addersting isn't something you do so much as it is something that is a consequential effect of proper DoT management, but also punishes you if you reapply E. Dosis too soon, like the buff is at 0 seconds but is only about to fall off. That could actually get really annoying for a lot of players and would be heavily punishing if Toxikon was in fact a gain. It would make more sense at that point to just generate it automatically like with Addersgall.

[currentlemon]

snip

Would my second option be no good either? Having Addersting generate after using a Addergall spell sounds good on paper, but I know next to nothing when it comes to numbers. If generating Addersting from Addergall spells is too powerful, perhaps it shouldn't be 100% guarantee. Maybe only have a 30-45% chance of Addersting generating after an Addergall spell is used.

[ty_taurus]

Would my second option be no good either? Having Addersting generate after using a Addergall spell sounds good on paper, but I know next to nothing when it comes to numbers. If generating Addersting from Addergall spells is too powerful, perhaps it shouldn't be 100% guarantee. Maybe only have a 30-45% chance of Addersting generating after an Addergall spell is used.

The biggest issue with Addersgall generating Addersting occurs regardless of whether or not the chance is 100% or less. It would be a DPS gain, which would be great on the gameplay feel of Addersting usage, but you'd be heavily incentivized to burn all your Addersting and Rhizomata exclusively for your 2 minute raid buffs. This would result in an excessive amount of overhealing during that time and a depletion of healing resources as well as would erase Rhizomata's current function in favor of being used on cooldown for DPS gains. Even if it's only a chance, you'd still burn all your Addersgall in hopes of generating Addersting during that window.

[EhvaTaco]

I think, this is a point better reserved for 7.0. The most obvious addition being Enhanced Rhizomata giving one Addersting in addition.

[ty_taurus]

I think, this is a point better reserved for 7.0. The most obvious addition being Enhanced Rhizomata giving one Addersting in addition.

My favorite part about discussing Sage is when I go to great lengths to discuss why Rhizomata should not generate Addersting only for someone to immediately say "Just give Rhizomata Addersting" as if my existence is a figment of my own imagination.

[EhvaTaco]

My favorite part about discussing Sage is when I go to great lengths to discuss why Rhizomata should not generate Addersting only for someone to immediately say "Just give Rhizomata Addersting" as if my existence is a figment of my own imagination.

Oh, don't be such an Emet-Sulk. We got a vocal minority of SMN decriers for that.

Overall, here is my feedback:

• Rework Rhizomata so that it will gain Addersting instead of Addersgall
• Or gain Addersting after using a Addergall spell
• Or generate Addersting after the timer of Eukrasian Dosis III runs out

Rhizomata is typically best used to gain more Gall in tight spots. If anything, I think the cooldown should be doubled but have it grant 2 Gall or even 3 instead. However, a short cooldown with 1 Gall has its merit, too. Both have their ups and downs.

Gaining Sting after Gall is something I can totally agree with. Maybe not in a 1:1 ratio though but perhaps 1:2 or 1:3. Making SGE earn Stings through consistent use would feel more rewarding.

As for Dosis management... I don't think this is a good point. You never want your dots to run out. You want them to keep ticking continously without interrruption. BRDs and old SMN players will attest to that.

[ty_taurus]

The solution here would be to allow addersgall to generate addersting (or even a fractional amount), but then add in a second addersting skill specifically for raid buffing and leave Toxikon as the same potency as Dosis to keep it DPS Neutral, yet flexible for weaving and mobility purposes. This implementation would however give a lot more weave windows and free mobility to Sage, but the exact amount of extra Toxikon uses can be adjusted based on the speed at which addersting generates.

At any rate, they might as well just remove the Ruin II restriction on Scholar and give AST more mobility with an instant-cast movement tool outside of lightspeed.

Just ideas to bounce around, seeing as healer gameplay is heavily restricted as a result of a lack of alternatives.

Or just do what PvP does and have Toxikon I cost no addersting and be the ruin II people seem to want and upgrade it’s potency under addersting so that way it’s also an actually interesting gauge mechanic.

Having a gauge exclusively revolving around ruin II is just bad.