The warrior 100% crit/DH needs addressing

Tonight my warrior was excluded from a barse group. No they were not toxic, just pointed out that they have a DRG and a SCH. I'm not even mad, I understand. Regardless, this really highlights my one gripe with warrior. It simply cannot take advantage of crit and DH buffs that BRD, DRG and SCH have to offer (not sure if there r others).

One does not even need a barsing tool to see that this is a problem. I know that 122% DH does nothing more for me than 100% DH, or 100%+ crit vs flat 100%.

Currently I can think of two ways of addressing this. No dmg boost to warrior is not going to fix this one bit.

Option A: convert all the niche crit and DH raid buffs to just flat dmg. One could argue these jobs would lose their identity. SCH would be like ninja, BRD would have many different flat dmg boosts (2 of their songs would need to become flat dmg boosts as well, thus removing some of their unique aspects). Overall a simple but boring solution.

Option B: introduce a mechanic where crit and DH over 100% is converted into additional dmg. This would also give a bit of a boost to the DRG autocrits (im unsure if there r any other cases of 100% crit/DH chance outside of WAR/DRG). Addresses the root of the problem, but could potentially be some difficult coding work.

Honestly I don't have high hopes of this pesky issue getting addressed, but I do feel better for putting it out there (I got no hits after some brief googling).

Thank you, and have a nice day!

Excess crit and dhit should definitely be converted into a damage buff, yeah.

The guaranteed crit and dhit is a bit of a double edged sword tbh. It's a thematic masterstroke, sure, but it definitely results in balance issues. It's going to end up scaling the worst out of any tank, too, because it benefits the least from higher crit. Right now it's probably as strong as it's ever going to be relative to the other tanks unless its damage gets buffed later on.

I get why you would feel this way. I'm a parse monkey, and a WAR main at that too.

However

No one upstairs will consider this an issue because it's strictly a parsing issue. We're talking about a niche circumstance, under controversial conditions (most people don't do savage, let alone chase after numbers). If certain websites decided to look at raw damage as they did back in SB and prior, there would be absolutely no issue here and the community at large would proceed as they always have.

My advice to you is what I did in the previous tier: insist on going as WAR anyways, you'll eventually get the numbers you seek.

This is like asking a landlord to fix the wall you decided to break down so you could install an American kitchen lol.
Stop...

Rather than make it universal why not just make it WAR exclusive trait if you really want to fix it?

being excluded from a barse run is a barsing issue yes, however, that is just a surface problem, it does not change the very fact that having a warrior in the party along with a BRD/DRG/SCH means there is overall raid dmg loss (outside of savage content as well)

it is akin to the dreaded pre EW days where the bard raid buff did not affect the bard themselves

and the loss isn't even negligible, i was surprised looking at how much more use my co tank GBR can get out of the bard raid buff as opposed to my poor warrior

war needs a dps bump not related to parsing but lore

This problem needs to be addressed at some point, though I have little hope that it will be, quite frankly (at least not directly).

MCH is another job affected by this as Reassemble forces a CDH. DNC also has a forced CDH that they must use within the duration of their CDH chance buff, funnily enough. That said, neither of these jobs are as affected by this issue as WAR, for what it's worth.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

...it's strictly a parsing issue.

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Hard disagree. It's also a job balance issue (albeit a minor one), as this interaction devalues Critical Hit Rate and Direct Hit Rate raid buffs.

A genuine question here...who are the fools who even give a damn that a WAR is there with a DRG and SCH in the party? I have never seen a group care about that sort of thing before, and if they do, then they obviously were not worth your attention.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

A genuine question here...who are the fools who even give a damn that a WAR is there with a DRG and SCH in the party? I have never seen a group care about that sort of thing before, and if they do, then they obviously were not worth your attention.

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If you're aiming for high APS, you have to exclude Warrior with both those jobs. They aren't being jerks but their two strongest raid buffs are entirely ignored otherwise For example sake, pulling up a Dark Knight's logs, they gained 140 DPS from Litany and 100 from Chain. Running with Warrior means they lose that damage, and thus, get a lower APS score.

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Originally Posted by Chopstix

Tonight my warrior was excluded from a barse group. No they were not toxic, just pointed out that they have a DRG and a SCH. I'm not even mad, I understand. Regardless, this really highlights my one gripe with warrior. It simply cannot take advantage of crit and DH buffs that BRD, DRG and SCH have to offer (not sure if there r others).

One does not even need a barsing tool to see that this is a problem. I know that 122% DH does nothing more for me than 100% DH, or 100%+ crit vs flat 100%.

Currently I can think of two ways of addressing this. No dmg boost to warrior is not going to fix this one bit.

Option A: convert all the niche crit and DH raid buffs to just flat dmg. One could argue these jobs would lose their identity. SCH would be like ninja, BRD would have many different flat dmg boosts (2 of their songs would need to become flat dmg boosts as well, thus removing some of their unique aspects). Overall a simple but boring solution.

Option B: introduce a mechanic where crit and DH over 100% is converted into additional dmg. This would also give a bit of a boost to the DRG autocrits (im unsure if there r any other cases of 100% crit/DH chance outside of WAR/DRG). Addresses the root of the problem, but could potentially be some difficult coding work.

Honestly I don't have high hopes of this pesky issue getting addressed, but I do feel better for putting it out there (I got no hits after some brief googling).

Thank you, and have a nice day!

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it is a bit dumb since your guaranteed crit count as a crit given by their buff (you can check it on logs) so they literally steal dps from you for nothing and it help them to make a better parse.

I remember a drama about a warrior right clicking on the litanny buff to prevent drg to steal his rdps :rolleyes:

Xeno submitted a question about this over in the Q+A thread, so you should check it out if it's relevant to your interests.

It's interesting because he campaigned fairly hard back in Stormblood around the idea that variations in luck around Crit and DH were unfair on WAR players trying to achieve their 'optimal' run, which was what prompted the change in the first place. I don't think that you can have it both ways, though.

It was particularly egregious back then because of how much stronger Fell Cleave was than your usual 1-2-3, and how much damage was contained within your limited burst windows. Other jobs had them, sure, but WAR had more dependency on crit damage during burst windows than just about every other job in the game, arguably to an unfair degree. But now that other jobs have such potencies and more, it’s just straight up outdated. Fell Cleave used to be the highest potency skill in the game, and even when it wasn’t, you used more of them in a window than other jobs did.

But now, you have jobs who’s normal 1-2-3 is almost as powerful as three consecutive fell cleaves are now, the only difference being that the FCs are auto direct crits. And Fell Cleave itself has only 60 more potency than the last hit of your GCD combo.

It’s just outdated now. Nothing more and nothing less.

We don't need every buff to be a plain % damage buffs, I'd rather have the guaranteed crit + DH for a few big hits.

This is basically their way of nerfing WAR burst into the ground. It started with Berserk atk power increase, admittedly 50% was pretty insane for any job, but 20% was the last nerf before they combined it with IR since casual ppl couldn't grasp the idea that IR cut beast gauge action costs in half. Honestly it would be better if it just increased potency by "x" amount, i.e. IR increases potency of weapon skills by 50%. I'm okay with infuriate still having the DH but I think they are gonna rework chaos stacks in 7.0.

I think they will bring back Wrath stacks and make your other gcds do the same thing the FC/decimate does. It's basically 2.0 WAR where you infuriate and get 5 stacks. Like, maim > storms eye, becomes, skull sunder > butcher's block but with 100% DHC (when infuriated with chaos stacks and each weaponskill uses up one stack). IC/CC will still be 100% DHC but each time you use up a chaos stack it reduces in potency.
At one stack it's basically a 100% DHC FC/Decimate in terms of potency. It would encourage you to use your gcds more but give you the option to dump all 5 stacks for a regular IC/CC when you infuriate. You can either do two BB combos and IC or just IC or one BB combo and IC. Basically gives you the freedom to choose your burst. It also adds two new weapon skills without actually adding skill bloat. This is all speculation, but that's and example of how I would rework WAR in the future.

However I think the reason why its like this is because they let tanks have access to DH. Imo DH should be a dps exclusive stat and they should do something with tenacity. Its literally a dead skill and its effect is so weak that its pretty much treated like parry. If tanks didn't have access to DH, WAR would be unique. Atm its just annoying to play BiS when you main all 4 tanks since they have to slot DH whereas WAR can slot in all the crit/det they want.

Parsers really are abhorrent people, aren't they?

Just curious, aren't the 'guaranteed crit / dhit' parts of the class in the player's control? Like activated through a buff that has a limited time window?

If it's just about the crit buffs that other classes give, then can't you just use your warrior guaranteed crits when the scholar / dragoon buff aren't active? They don't have 100% uptime as far as I'm aware.

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Originally Posted by Chyro

Just curious, aren't the 'guaranteed crit / dhit' parts of the class in the player's control? Like activated through a buff that has a limited time window?

If it's just about the crit buffs that other classes give, then can't you just use your warrior guaranteed crits when the scholar / dragoon buff aren't active? They don't have 100% uptime as far as I'm aware.

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Buff timings are extremely standardized. In a competent party all buffs (both simple damage increase and crit/DH buffs) will be active at the same time. This is also the most efficient way to utilize buffs since their effects stack multiplicatively. You'll get more benefit from two buffs being up at the same time than from the same buffs back to back after each other. So if you try to "dodge" some specific buff you will end up dodging all of them and leave a significant amount of damage on the table.

This is also not taking into account that using your abilities immediately once their cooldown ends is the basis of XIVs combat system. Letting them sit ready and not do anything is a waste that can easily cost you a use over full duration of a fight.

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Originally Posted by Chopstix

Tonight my warrior was excluded from a barse group. .

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Could have just stopped this entire thread here.

You are not owed a group. Their group, their rules.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Could have just stopped this entire thread here.

You are not owed a group. Their group, their rules.

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That's a bad take though.

Having a job whose kit actively negates other job's buffs goes against their entire design philosophy this expansion. Hence why bringing attention to is makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

No one upstairs will consider this an issue because it's strictly a parsing issue.

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It is not strictly a parsing issue, as Argyle already said, it is a balancing issue as well as a major gearing issue. Because warrior gains barely anything from Direct Hit it is essentially a dead stat, which means you never want to meld it on warrior's gear.

Unfortunately every other tank wants the exact opposite as they all gain a not insignificant amount of dps from melding Direct Hit. This leads to warrior needing a completely different gearset compared to every other tank.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Unfortunately every other tank wants the exact opposite as they all gain a not insignificant amount of dps from melding Direct Hit. This leads to warrior needing a completely different gearset compared to every other tank.

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Everyone melding the same thing is boring. Delete materia or make it actually mean something, don't change a job because people are upset about a tiny dps difference.

Omnitanking is like half the appeal of tanking. Of all the roles in the game, it's the one that should be able to meld the same thing the most.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Everyone melding the same thing is boring. Delete materia or make it actually mean something, don't change a job because people are upset about a tiny dps difference.

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How is it boring exactly? We have essentially three stats that are generally worth melding for. Crit, DH, and Det. In that order unless you're warrior or a healer that isn't building for speed runs. Maybe some skill speed or spell speed if you need it. It's not exactly like melding is in a position to be interesting, because the stat system in 14 isn't interesting enough for melding to be interesting. So given the way that materia as a system is designed, I would call shared melds complementary game design. This game lets you play all of the jobs, so unless the game gets a materia plate system or unique gear goes away, having shared melds is vastly preferable to the alternative. Especially when a new expansion comes out and good materia are 50k+ a piece.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

It is not strictly a parsing issue

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Oh yeah? Answer me this, and answer me honestly: who cares?

It's not the casual WAR player who's playing it in dungeons. No, he loves it.
It's not the casual BRD/DRG players either. They don't even notice.
It's not the average savage/ultimate player. They're clearing just fine and think it's okay so long as WAR's dps is in line with the other tanks.
It's not even the average parser who cares, because a WAR being present won't make or break the difference between purple and orange as much as individual skill.

No, the only ones who care are those who think that an optimal comp will bring them closer to achieving a pink log, or maybe even gold. You wanna know something? Few people will care to even humor such an audience, let alone the devs when they examine if whether or not WAR's in a good place.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Everyone melding the same thing is boring. Delete materia or make it actually mean something, don't change a job because people are upset about a tiny dps difference.

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And yet, everyone is melding the same thing.

Even if they change it people will still do the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

Oh yeah? Answer me this, and answer me honestly: who cares?

It's not the casual WAR player who's playing it in dungeons. No, he loves it.
It's not the casual BRD/DRG players either. They don't even notice.
It's not the average savage/ultimate player. They're clearing just fine and think it's okay so long as WAR's dps is in line with the other tanks.
It's not even the average parser who cares, because a WAR being present won't make or break the difference between purple and orange as much as individual skill.

No, the only ones who care are those who think that an optimal comp will bring them closer to achieving a pink log, or maybe even gold. You wanna know something? Few people will care to even humor such an audience, let alone the devs when they examine if whether or not WAR's in a good place.

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Yeah pretty much.

As much as I love high-end parsing, going for pinks or golds is a minority within a minority, and consistent orange level players are already so good that they can carry a party's damage. While devs occasionally pay attention to niche optimization-level play, they don't do it nearly often enough to think this is a change they'll even consider. I'd consider the issues it causes with gearing and scaling much more pressing, but they'll probably solve those by giving WAR's potency buffs over the course of the expac like they did in ShB.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

Oh yeah? Answer me this, and answer me honestly: who cares?

It's not the casual WAR player who's playing it in dungeons. No, he loves it.
It's not the casual BRD/DRG players either. They don't even notice.
It's not the average savage/ultimate player. They're clearing just fine and think it's okay so long as WAR's dps is in line with the other tanks.
It's not even the average parser who cares, because a WAR being present won't make or break the difference between purple and orange as much as individual skill.

No, the only ones who care are those who think that an optimal comp will bring them closer to achieving a pink log, or maybe even gold. You wanna know something? Few people will care to even humor such an audience, let alone the devs when they examine if whether or not WAR's in a good place.

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You obviously haven't paid much attention to how people think. None of what you said here will deter people from barring WAR from their groups. There's a not insignificant number of people that choose to "follow the meta" despite not being anywhere near the level where they need to and, generally speaking, having no idea what the differences actually are aside from X job gets better numbers than Y job. It is at this point fairly common for jobs to be barred from participation despite being functionally sound for no reason other than the above.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Everyone melding the same thing is boring. Delete materia or make it actually mean something, don't change a job because people are upset about a tiny dps difference.

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What difference does it make? Warrior literally follows the same meld spread but simply swaps out Direct Hit for Determination. There is no thought or meaningful interaction to it. At this point, you're just wanting to keep an objectively flawed system for the sake of it being "unique". This is the same logic has wanting to keep Piety despite it being a dead stat healers actively avoid melding at all costs.

Furthermore, it isn't a tiny DPS difference once you factor in bother job buffs. Dragoon loses an average of 100+ DPS for Warrior simply existing in their party. In fact, if you ran a comp that includes Dragoon, Scholar and Bard (the three current meta jobs, btw), you're losing roughly 300 rDPS for no reason. So melding in favor of Warrior hurts you in two different ways.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

Yeah pretty much.

As much as I love high-end parsing, going for pinks or golds is a minority within a minority, and consistent orange level players are already so good that they can carry a party's damage. While devs occasionally pay attention to niche optimization-level play, they don't do it nearly often enough to think this is a change they'll even consider. I'd consider the issues it causes with gearing and scaling much more pressing, but they'll probably solve those by giving WAR's potency buffs over the course of the expac like they did in ShB.

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They didn't though. Warrior only saw potency buffs in 5.5, when the raid tier was long since dead and with no Ultimate, nobody cared. They basically let the job rot all expansion despite it being the least played tank by a country mile. Part of why that happened was due to melding hurting the other tanks alongside Warrior's low damage. Both those issues still exist but are presently masked because everyone is mesmerized by Bloodwhetting and think it's OP. Which it is... in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

Oh yeah? Answer me this, and answer me honestly: who cares?

It's not the casual WAR player who's playing it in dungeons. No, he loves it.
It's not the casual BRD/DRG players either. They don't even notice.
It's not the average savage/ultimate player. They're clearing just fine and think it's okay so long as WAR's dps is in line with the other tanks.
It's not even the average parser who cares, because a WAR being present won't make or break the difference between purple and orange as much as individual skill.

No, the only ones who care are those who think that an optimal comp will bring them closer to achieving a pink log, or maybe even gold. You wanna know something? Few people will care to even humor such an audience, let alone the devs when they examine if whether or not WAR's in a good place.

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Funny thing about that is the only people who largely cared about old Astro cards were speed parsers who hated fishing for Balance. Most casual players and even a good portion of the raid scene preferred the original card system despite most of the cards not having much purpose. They humored those complaints and have stuck to them despite massive criticism ever since.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Xeno submitted a question about this over in the Q+A thread, so you should check it out if it's relevant to your interests.

It's interesting because he campaigned fairly hard back in Stormblood around the idea that variations in luck around Crit and DH were unfair on WAR players trying to achieve their 'optimal' run, which was what prompted the change in the first place. I don't think that you can have it both ways, though.

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This is more about the fact that WAR does fairly low damage normally but then has a huge spike in its burst, if you didn’t crit during that burst window then your dps suffered a lot more than other jobs, kind of like MCH and wildfire, if you screwed up your wildfire your dps plummeted because it was such a huge part of their dps. Basically the only other fix would have been to level out WARs overall damage which I guess they felt didn’t fit the job thematically, so instead they just made that burst more consistent.

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Originally Posted by Alzinor

it is a bit dumb since your guaranteed crit count as a crit given by their buff (you can check it on logs) so they literally steal dps from you for nothing and it help them to make a better parse.

I remember a drama about a warrior right clicking on the litanny buff to prevent drg to steal his rdps :rolleyes:

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Oh dear, this is first i heard of this. How do u check this in logs exactly?

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Xeno submitted a question about this

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Yeah i just watched the video, ty for the heads up, hopefully it will get some attention :P.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

This is more about the fact that WAR does fairly low damage normally but then has a huge spike in its burst, if you didn’t crit during that burst window then your dps suffered a lot more than other jobs, kind of like MCH and wildfire, if you screwed up your wildfire your dps plummeted because it was such a huge part of their dps. Basically the only other fix would have been to level out WARs overall damage which I guess they felt didn’t fit the job thematically, so instead they just made that burst more consistent.

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DRK has higher burst in EW than all the other tanks so saying WAR has burst (or any other tank) is redundant. Traditionally the reason you would have a burst is because your cds don't line up with party raid buffs so you needed stronger than usual cds to compensate for that. However, in EW they lined up raid cds to the 60/120 timers so all jobs have a burst now that fits in a window so they don't need to be a strong anymore.

They obviously balance the fact that war can 100% CDH with the other tanks because the other tanks have higher potency base BUT, they can exceed WAR when they slot in DH materia. That's where the problem is. DH isn't even really that good as the damage is highly variable but in the current "damage > everything else" meta that bit of extra does add up over a fight.

The only good thing I think we can all agree on that 100% CDH does, is crit heals during BW/NF, which is really nice. It's like WAR has a one min (2 charge) SCH recitation which is helpful in most cases. It's probably the one reason I'm still on the fence about the 100% CDH. Honestly I would like to see them first; make DH a DPS exclusive stat, and make use of Tenacity for tanks. Then balance the tanks around that fact that WAR is the only one with CDH by increasing potency of their gcd/ogcds to be on par. If after all that, 100% CDH is still an issue for WAR players, then I would have to say its time to get rid of that 100% CDH.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

DRK has higher burst in EW than all the other tanks so saying WAR has burst (or any other tank) is redundant. Traditionally the reason you would have a burst is because your cds don't line up with party raid buffs so you needed stronger than usual cds to compensate for that. However, in EW they lined up raid cds to the 60/120 timers so all jobs have a burst now that fits in a window so they don't need to be a strong anymore.

They obviously balance the fact that war can 100% CDH with the other tanks because the other tanks have higher potency base BUT, they can exceed WAR when they slot in DH materia. That's where the problem is. DH isn't even really that good as the damage is highly variable but in the current "damage > everything else" meta that bit of extra does add up over a fight.

The only good thing I think we can all agree on that 100% CDH does, is crit heals during BW/NF, which is really nice. It's like WAR has a one min (2 charge) SCH recitation which is helpful in most cases. It's probably the one reason I'm still on the fence about the 100% CDH. Honestly I would like to see them first; make DH a DPS exclusive stat, and make use of Tenacity for tanks. Then balance the tanks around that fact that WAR is the only one with CDH by increasing potency of their gcd/ogcds to be on par. If after all that, 100% CDH is still an issue for WAR players, then I would have to say its time to get rid of that 100% CDH.

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You can’t compare EW DRK to SB WAR, it had a 200 potency average combo, upheaval and nothing else outside its burst window which was just 6 500 potency fell cleaves back to back. The massive difference in potency between fell cleave and everything else a WAR could do meant that if those fell cleaves weren’t direct crits you were losing a massive portion of your damage dealt due to pure RNG (not to mention that your crit rate was tied to how much beast gauge you had left). That is why people complained that WAR was too reliant on spike damage and lead to the change of guaranteed direct crits.

Since then WAR has levelled out its dps the same as every other tank which is why the people who were complaining about SB WAR are now complaining about the guaranteed direct crits because the job is no longer reliant on that spike so that change is now just gimping their burst. They want the same thing they’ve always wanted. WAR to be able to deal consistent damage.

I actually think the opposite, all the tanks should have guaranteed DH on their burst. Isn't it desirable for tanks to value Tenacity, a tank only stat, over DH, a DPS-only stat? Not just thematically, but for materia prices too.

The parse thing... That's an issue with the nonosite, not the game. It's not really an issue for SE, bring it up with the sight admins

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Originally Posted by eagledorf

I actually think the opposite, all the tanks should have guaranteed DH on their burst. Isn't it desirable for tanks to value Tenacity, a tank only stat, over DH, a DPS-only stat? Not just thematically, but for materia prices too.

The parse thing... That's an issue with the nonosite, not the game. It's not really an issue for SE, bring it up with the sight admins

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There is no point putting any stock in Tenacity when it is so weak, even if for some reason, tanks no longer melded DH, we would still take Determination over Tenacity. Until Tenacity gains a substantial boost to a point where it matched Determination, Tenacity will only be taken to meet a new tier at best.

Also DH is NOT a DPS only stat, due to the fact tanks and healers are not locked out of melding DH, the stat just is not native on the gear. This is evident by the fact that both Tenacity and Piety stipulate that the stat has no effect on a role other than their respective role.

Tenacity is stronger than SkS or DH on WAR though. My point is that makes much more sense than having the tank stat be the least desirable stat for tanks like it is for the three others.

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Originally Posted by eagledorf

Tenacity is stronger than SkS or DH on WAR though. My point is that makes much more sense than having the tank stat be the least desirable stat for tanks like it is for the three others.

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Yes Tenacity is stronger on WAR and only on WAR but only to reach specific tiers. WAR is very much a problem child as far as gearing and melds are concerned when they made WAR the brain dead tank.

Personally they need to remove the auto Crit DH from IR and Nascent Chaos actions since it gains nothing from raid buffs and again makes omnitank sets unoptimal for the majority of the tanks. Really the only auto Crit DH I'm okay with is likes of Reassemble, since it's typically 1 use under raid buffs, which is far less egregious. So no I don't think the other tanks should have auto DH on their bursts, it's already a terrible design approach with WAR.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

if those fell cleaves weren’t direct crits you were losing a massive portion of your damage dealt due to pure RNG

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This is a good point. The number of hits (oGCDs included) a warrior can land during a 15 sec buff window pales in comparison to DRK and GBR. Pali has one more with requi than warrior (along with a dot that is constantly ticking). The shear volume alone reduces dramatically the RNG variance over the course of the fight. The GCD potency boost would need to be absolutely astronomical on warrior to compensate properly for the loss of guaranteed high dmg. Again, this is because beyond the gapcloser spam that every tank has, warrior has just one oGCD, upheaval. DMG comes from oGCDs, as adding in a big GCD hit (like primal rend) doesn't really add that much as it competes with whatever GCD u would be doing instead. An oGCD on the other hand, has no competition and thus it is 100% effective DPS increase.

DRK got 1200 oGCD potency in EW. All of it can be used under raid buffs. Massive boost on shadow clone too, which is again oGCD, good chunk of it goes under raid buffs. oGCD retrigger on salted earth. I wonder y DRK does so much dmg now huh.
GBR got continuation on burst strike. A big GCD hit every minute. Overall DMG boost feels more reasonable than above DRK.
Pali: lol. While cool the new ranged combo was barely better than the melee combo. No wonder they were so far behind until they got much needed potency boosts.
WAR: primal rend GCD ability. That's it. 1 min IR, free gapclosers and upheavel was y warrior was well ahead of pali.

For this reason, because id rather not see warrior turned into another oGCD monkey job, it is best to keep the CDH moves and to make sure stats above 100% do not get wasted in order to stay competitive. Personally i dont understand y GBR with lots of oGCDs has one that does 700 potency (yup, same as primal rend potency on an oGCD and HALF the CD). Upheaval and burst strike should trade potency values.

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Originally Posted by Chopstix

The GCD potency boost would need to be absolutely astronomical on warrior to compensate properly for the loss of guaranteed high dmg.

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No it doesn't? DHCs are roughly 15-20% which is essentially No Mercy. All they have to do is slap a 20% damage buff onto Inner Release and call it a day. They could do the same for Infuriate and Primal Rend but simply buffing the potency by 20% accomplishes the same thing. To specifically outline the changes...

Inner Release buffs the next three Fell Cleaves by 20%
Inner Chaos goes from 650 potency to 780
Chaotic Cyclone goes from 320 to 385
Primal Rend foes from 700 to 840

These changes, in addition to all of these abilities now being able to CHD would be more than enough. In fact, they may be a little high though I think both PLD and WAR could use a buff.

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Originally Posted by eagledorf

Tenacity is stronger than SkS or DH on WAR though. My point is that makes much more sense than having the tank stat be the least desirable stat for tanks like it is for the three others.

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It really isn't. The highest simmed BiS for Warrior drops all Tenacity melds for Skill Speed to reach 2.40. Granted, it does have some competitive Tenacity alternatives but the stat is only relative on Warrior because its interaction with Direct Hit is negligible outside guaranteed DHCs. While buffing Tenacity and/or locking tanks out of Direct Hit does fix the meld issue, it doesn't address Warrior completely ignoring Chain Stratagem, Battle Litany and Battle Voice.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

No it doesn't? DHCs are roughly 15-20% which is essentially No Mercy. All they have to do is slap a 20% damage buff onto Inner Release and call it a day.

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Literally what are you talking about? A CDH is basically double damage.