Raising healing requirements for newer content alone won't also improve older content

There's increasingly what I feel is a focus on an incomplete solution in a lot of developer responses and some thread replies, so I want to make a thread specifically bringing attention to that: One common response I see to many healers wanting more DPS options so that their frequent downtime is less repetitive and boring is that developers are supposedly trying to raise healing requirements for newer expansion content as an alternative solution. The supposed idea is that if DPS attacks are only rarely able to be used due to stricter healing requirements, then there not being many options wouldn't be a problem; however, I disagree with this working for multiple reasons:

1. We've been told this would be improved for Shadowbringers, but that hasn't been the case for a majority of the expansion's release. Trying isn't the same as successfully doing.
2. The director himself has stated that he's aware that downtime inevitably increases as player item levels improve, which usually happens pretty quickly after each new patch. How can you consistently ensure the same amount of downtime for the life of the content, unless you force minimum item levels the whole time, thus making newer gear and weapons less valuable?
3. This won't solve repetition issues with content that only requires you to take care of yourself, such as beast tribe quests, main scenario mobs, and unsynced solo instances

But okay, let's say that newer Endwalker content will somehow avoid all of these issues; I'm skeptical that this will be the case, but for the sake of my next point, let's just assume that it somehow does. That ignores a major part of these conversations that I feel is often overlooked...

Raising healing requirements for newer content alone will not also improve the gameplay for A Realm Reborn, Heavensward, Stormblood, and Shadowbringers content, which will still be about 80% of the game's total content. This is especially true when helping newer players, doing roulettes, playing through New Game Plus, participating in large-scale instances like Eureka or Bozja, running older content in Party Finder, finishing older beast tribe quests, and more. I do not believe that most active healers have ceased ever doing any content that isn't from a current expansion.

Unless the development team is also going back into base game and past expansion content and retroactively updating healing requirements for all their battles, I don't see how an answer that we shouldn't worry about excessive DPS repetition because healing requirements will be improved only for newer content fully addresses the issue of healers being bored while trying to optimize output damage when healing becomes rarely needed. I sincerely feel like this pretty basic thing is either overlooked or ignored in the few higher-up responses we see to questions of wanting more DPS options for healers, and I hope that's more actively thought of in future discussions.

At this point, I'm honestly not really sure anything can be done for older content, it'd be a massive undertaking to go back and retune it and honestly, I'm not even sure that it would be productive to do so.

My reasoning is that this game has had a really peculiar difficulty curve that in many regards is literally the reverse of what common sense states it should be.

At the risk of preaching about early ARR a bit too frequently.... One thing 2.0 did particularly well was ramp up the difficulty as dungeons progressed, it also used earlier content as training wheels to prepare the player for what was to come further down the line. A few examples:

Brayflox was arguably the first dungeon where you actually had to be alert. Bad player positioning could get you swamped with adds whereas bad boss positioning would make a boss significantly more challenging or potentially even force a wipe. It was the training wheels version of Aurum Vale.

And then you've got my favourite, Amdapor Keep, Psyche Flayer and Anantaboga demonstrated mechanics that would later be used in Garuda Hard, whereas Demon Wall was a simplified training ground for Titan HM. Anantaboga even had an enrage of sorts! In a Dungeon!

At the time, AK was a step up over Wanderers and prior dungeons and really was the preparation step towards Hard Mode primals which in turn were the gate keepers for Coil.

Compare that to what we have now. A mish mash of levelling dungeons with the occasional random difficulty spike often out of the blue (routinely right in the first pull for whatever reason) which leads into an endgame of mindless content where even if you can get yourself killed fairly easily, the risk of complete failure just isn't there anymore. And then you crash into Extreme primals. Hard.

There's just no preparation step before that anymore and I'm of the mind that if 'levelling' content mostly gets trivialised, that's a worthwhile sacrifice if it means that the game gets some semblance of a difficulty curve back. It doesn't need to ramp up into a souls like. It just needs to be enough to push players into thinking about their personal contribution to the team.

You just can't tune a game around portions of a player base that doesn't really care if they are dead weight because they'll get their loot anyway.

I think there's only two ways they can alleviate this:

1. Retune stats for older content to be balanced in the way they were intended and compensate the iLevel difference and level difference (maybe stat caps)
2. Give us better DPS options because that's all we are going to be doing anyway.

After clearing Titan Savage my group decided to do Cape Westwind min iLevel synced for fun and the healing experience was more intensive, I think when you play some of this content at a level it was intended it's more engaging.

I don't think it will be perfect as I think encounter design plays it's part too, but I think it would ease the problem. And I think it'll be good for newer people too because they get to enjoy the content as it was intended instead of just face rolling stuff like it's insignificant

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And despite having pushed a lot for option 2, I think I'd actually prefer option one in this content (well, actually both, but I know it's not going to happen) and I don't think it would be a bad thing whether you're doing the first time or as part of a roulette, because when you're doing something for the first time, it improves your experience if you're doing the content as it was intended and get the full experience.

And if you're doing it in a roulette, in each of the roulettes you still get on-content stuff and people who're not highly geared. So does it matter if other instances take just as long? Especially if they adjust the rewards to compensate (eg. exp in a levelling roulette) like they do between Castrum and Prae in MSQ roulette.

And imagine doing mechanics in Labyrinth of the the Ancients again or doing the door mechanics at the end of City of Amdapor (which you can just heal through now) and so on. I feel like facerolls are what undersizing is for.

So it'd be more than just a benefit to healers but to other roles. And the bonus is if the end result is that your healers are focusing on healing more and avoiding letting health drop as much (where a certain percentage is still enough to survive an AoE or tank buster) then the issue of people dying due to healers DPSing would be alleviated. It won't be solved, but then it won't be solved because people will strive for optimal play, but at least they're less likely to tunnel vision and be a little more on their toes.

The way they can fix older content having so many skipped mechanics is by moving the maim and mend buffs to level caps+1 so that outscaling potencies don't demolish everything so much.

so you fight level 50 and below content at ARR potencies, level 51-60 at HW potencies, 61-70 at SB potencies and 71-80 at SHB potencies.


everything else is same old solution: give back our lost dps buttons, cc etc

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

I think there's only two ways they can alleviate this:

1. Retune stats for older content to be balanced in the way they were intended and compensate the iLevel difference and level difference (maybe stat caps)
2. Give us better DPS options because that's all we are going to be doing anyway.

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I do feel like giving us more varied DPS options will extremely likely be the easier solution for the development team to implement; I was just addressing some insufficient arguments that specifically focused on healing requirements for Endwalker content by pointing out that improved requirements for said newer content wouldn't alone solve problems with a significant majority of the existing content, the latter of which currently includes the base game and three humungous expansions.

Minimum item levels also seem to be pretty inconsistently enforced across different Duty Finder instances, so increasing the number of instances that enforce them could be worth looking at too, but there's also the need for higher-leveled weapons and gear to feel like they offer an impactful reward to players who put the lengthy time into earning them outside of field or unsynced Party Finder content. There are definitely lots of things to consider.

Ultimately, adding more DPS variety seems like the easier option that will also raise the skill ceiling without necessarily raising the skill floor for casual content. Updating healer requirements across the entire game could still be a technically possible option, but also a dramatically harder one that would still have inherent design limitations to account for like improved item levels and solo content mobs.

When I play, I do a lot of roulettes to kill time, I agree with this. I really find it ridiculous that I can almost afk through 60-70 and even 80 content or barely need to heal them. Specially counting all the MSQ content that a new player will have to go through.

I get that things eventually get stomped but still, I don't see the other jobs being able to afk or simply spam 1 button through these duties. So for me, simply ramping up healer requirements for current things (something I doubt SE will do, but who knows), barely fix the problem, unless you pay your sub to do expert (that are even easier than leveling dungeons nowadays?? wtf) or run the same 2-3 fights over and over again, you're bound to be doing older content.

Why not just more DPS buttons? Raising healing requirements will simultaneously lift the skill floor whereas a slightly more complex DPS rotation only increases the ceiling.

Have you seen WoW healing? If you miss 1 GCD someone in your team will likely die from random ass unavoidable AOE damage. How is that even fun? Not to mention that the WoW healbot classes literally cannot function outside of instances.

I honestly consider hybrid healers to be an improvement over the old heal bot concept from almost 20 years ago. There are issues with the healers in the 14 but that ideology in a vacuum is very enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by BooPoo

Why not just more DPS buttons? Raising healing requirements will simultaneously lift the skill floor whereas a slightly more complex DPS rotation only increases the ceiling.

Have you seen WoW healing? If you miss 1 GCD someone in your team will likely die from random ass unavoidable AOE damage. How is that even fun? Not to mention that the WoW healbot classes literally cannot function outside of instances.

I honestly consider hybrid healers to be an improvement over the old heal bot concept from almost 20 years ago. There are issues with the healers in the 14 but that ideology in a vacuum is very enjoyable.

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This is utter misinformation. There are certain "tankbuster" like crits or mechanics that cannot be missed...just like FFXIV.

And WoW healing classes have entire damage specs that can be instantly swapped into for leveling, DPSing, PVP, or whatever. Pretending that FFXIV healers have it better with one nuke, one DoT, and one AoE is sad. I don't get why FFXIV players have this huge inferiority complex about a game they never tried.

I would much rather need to heal a lot than spam glare over and over.

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Originally Posted by BooPoo

Why not just more DPS buttons? Raising healing requirements will simultaneously lift the skill floor whereas a slightly more complex DPS rotation only increases the ceiling.

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I would definitely like to see at least a few more DPS buttons added across all healer jobs. This thread was intended to point out specific issues with the flawed argument that I sometimes saw about how improved healing requirements for Endwalker content would supposedly be a substitute for increased DPS variety overall, and that's also based on the assumption that the numbered list I wrote would somehow be fully addressed.

My intent was to point out that the substitute (that's sometimes proposed in some forum posts and interview responses) isn't actually a full substitute or even close to it in terms of the percentage of overall content (including the base game and its past three expansions) that it would attempt to address; it wasn't to discourage adding more DPS actions, and I actually spoke in favor of improved DPS variety within my original post.

Adding more DPS options still seems like a better and more realistic goal to me right now, and I'm really hoping that this thread gets noticed and read by higher-level developers.

I mean, if SE is capable of stat squishing the game, isn't also possible for them to also reduce the effect of the stat squish on a case by case basis?

So, for example, we the players have our stats reduced by roughly 66% by the squish, would it not be theoretically possible for SE to adjust content to only be 60% squished in comparison so that, enemies are suddenly hitting a little bit harder, DPS checks are a little bit more difficult and heal checks a slightly more challenging? Like, I recently did a run of Shisui on my WHM. During the final boss, when she goings underwater and her bubbles spawned, I used Assize and did about 40% of the damage with that alone. Now after the stat squish, what if it only did about 20% instead, with EW gear making it closer to 25%? I mean, I would notice it obviously but would that necessarily be a bad thing? It would require me to actually heal a little during this part since the DPS wouldn't be able to 1/2 shot the bubbles like before but its a subtle change that could realistically make Healing a slight bit more challenging and while on its own it would only maybe cause me to use 1-2 more GCD heals but it would be something at least.

As for having more DPS options, I'd much rather SE stopped making more and more oGCD healing abilities and went more into GCD buffs/debuff that were DPS neutral, like Macrocosmos, so that we could contribute in more interesting ways. Say, for example, SCH was given a new form of Miasma. It does DoT damage that is akin to Bio and the 2 cannot stack but Miasma debuffs the target with Super Virus for 10 seconds so that it deals less damage and the ability has a CD of 90s. This way, SCH effectively has to manage when they use Miasma over normal Bio so that they can reduce the damage of that Tank buster or Raid Wide while still maintaining their DPS rotation. The could grant similar abilities to other heals so that they could contribute in their own ways so as to all remain potent in their own ways. Give WHM Glare 2 (I know, naming conventions and all that but just an example) that effectively gives them Cleric Stance for 10 seconds. There's a lot of possibilities that SE just needs to explore so that each Healer can contribute in unique ways and have that extra DPS button so that we have something to do instead of 1 button spamming for 70% of the time, even if it only reduces that 70% to 60%.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

I mean, if SE is capable of stat squishing the game, isn't also possible for them to also reduce the effect of the stat squish on a case by case basis?

So, for example, we the players have our stats reduced by roughly 66% by the squish, would it not be theoretically possible for SE to adjust content to only be 60% squished in comparison so that, enemies are suddenly hitting a little bit harder, DPS checks are a little bit more difficult and heal checks a slightly more challenging?

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Its hard to understand what youre trying to say. If you meant "could SE use the stat squish to make old content feel harder", then yes, the stat squish is their perfect opportunity to do that. But theyve expressedly said they will not. Content done at near its minimum item level will be adjusted to be balanced roughly the same as it was pre-squish, but the stat squish will make it so outgearing content feels less pronounced.

In an interview yoshida pointed out how for example crystal tower won't be completely facerolled with max item level because theyre making stats increase more linearly and less exponentially. So some players might feel such content suddenly got "harder" after the stat squish. Which means that unless you heavily outgeared a duty pre-squish, its going to feel mostly the same post-squish. Leveling dungeons have a relatively tight ilv sync compared to level cap duties so its highly unlikely youll notice such a drastic difference in performance for shisui, but you might for level cap dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

I think there's only two ways they can alleviate this:

1. Retune stats for older content to be balanced in the way they were intended and compensate the iLevel difference and level difference (maybe stat caps)
2. Give us better DPS options because that's all we are going to be doing anyway.

After clearing Titan Savage my group decided to do Cape Westwind min iLevel synced for fun and the healing experience was more intensive, I think when you play some of this content at a level it was intended it's more engaging.

I don't think it will be perfect as I think encounter design plays it's part too, but I think it would ease the problem. And I think it'll be good for newer people too because they get to enjoy the content as it was intended instead of just face rolling stuff like it's insignificant

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That's supposed to be the point of the ilvl sync and the min ilvl Cape Westwind you did shows that it does indeed work as intended.

The problem is that the developers let the ilvl go so high from the minimum that it's not working. It really shouldn't be allowed to be more than 5-10 ilvls from the min.

The ARR raids are supposed to be ilvl 70 and you're synced to 120/130. That's almost double where you are supposed to be. THAT'S why people blast through it.

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Originally Posted by QooEr

Its hard to understand what youre trying to say. If you meant "could SE use the stat squish to make old content feel harder", then yes, the stat squish is their perfect opportunity to do that. But theyve expressedly said they will not. Content done at near its minimum item level will be adjusted to be balanced roughly the same as it was pre-squish, but the stat squish will make it so outgearing content feels less pronounced.

In an interview yoshida pointed out how for example crystal tower won't be completely facerolled with max item level because theyre making stats increase more linearly and less exponentially. So some players might feel such content suddenly got "harder" after the stat squish. Which means that unless you heavily outgeared a duty pre-squish, its going to feel mostly the same post-squish. Leveling dungeons have a relatively tight ilv sync compared to level cap duties so its highly unlikely youll notice such a drastic difference in performance for shisui, but you might for level cap dungeons.

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That's what I meant so you're right. It was just my opinion on how it could've been done and it's disheartening that it won't happen because old content really does need to be somewhat more challenging, if only to make it more engaging.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

That's what I meant so you're right. It was just my opinion on how it could've been done and it's disheartening that it won't happen because old content really does need to be somewhat more challenging, if only to make it more engaging.

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I don't think we'll ever win this fight. There are way more people looking to faceroll roulette for currency than are looking for a challenge.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

That's supposed to be the point of the ilvl sync and the min ilvl Cape Westwind you did shows that it does indeed work as intended.

The problem is that the developers let the ilvl go so high from the minimum that it's not working. It really shouldn't be allowed to be more than 5-10 ilvls from the min.

The ARR raids are supposed to be ilvl 70 and you're synced to 120/130. That's almost double where you are supposed to be. THAT'S why people blast through it.

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Agreed and to be where we were doing it first time we were probably closer to iLevel 45 because it's a level 49 story trial. I would happily welcome a tighter iLevel cap (and if necessary too, a stat cap) and then we get the content as it was intended. I'm really hoping they resolve that because Yoshi P has acknowledged iLevel difference are an issue, but how he recognises it as an issue and what they're willing to do as a result of course is the important part.

And I think it would be really sensible if they did, especially with the influx for new players, I imagine ploughing through this stuff as a new player is underwhelming and lacks the impact it once had. Imagine getting Labyrinth of the Ancient in Alliance Roulettes and having to actually do the mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

Agreed and to be where we were doing it first time we were probably closer to iLevel 45 because it's a level 49 story trial. I would happily welcome a tighter iLevel cap (and if necessary too, a stat cap) and then we get the content as it was intended. I'm really hoping they resolve that because Yoshi P has acknowledged iLevel difference are an issue, but how he recognises it as an issue and what they're willing to do as a result of course is the important part.

And I think it would be really sensible if they did, especially with the influx for new players, I imagine ploughing through this stuff as a new player is underwhelming and lacks the impact it once had. Imagine getting Labyrinth of the Ancient in Alliance Roulettes and having to actually do the mechanics.

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S-E's golden rule seems to be "low skill floor," so while we might see content go from utterly trivial to rather trivial, it will still be trivial.

The very last thing they want is someone getting Labyrinth on their roulette and flat out failing to clear.

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

S-E's golden rule seems to be "low skill floor," so while we might see content go from utterly trivial to rather trivial, it will still be trivial.

The very last thing they want is someone getting Labyrinth on their roulette and flat out failing to clear.

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I mean, yes, they are going for a low skill floor, but shouldn't content work as it was intended? The great advantage of how ARR was balanced was that it started you at a low skill level and gradually built you up, it doesn't do that anymore because of how it's balanced. If they rebalanced it, by the time people are level 50 they'll have increased in skill and would be able to clear that content. This can then help them be better prepared for later content too. And then they also get to experience the game. And the people I see having issues with wipes in LoTA is people who get it in a roulette. People still wipe to World of Darkness because failing mechanics there can still be deadly and I don't think it would be much different. When things are a faceroll nobody really learns anything.

I don't get it. Everything you said is kinda true but none of it contradicts my points?

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

There are certain "tankbuster" like crits or mechanics that cannot be missed...just like FFXIV.

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Yes. But not to the extreme where you have to constantly spam healing spells like in WoW. Please don't assume you're the only person that has played the most popular MMO for the past 15 years.

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

And WoW healing classes have entire damage specs that can be instantly swapped into for leveling, DPSing, PVP, or whatever.

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Yes. And do you think that is a good design? In a role playing game, you never see any holy/disc priest or resto druid outside of instances in the open world? If I want to play a disc priest. Then I'll play the disc priest. I do not want to be forced into Shadow just so that I can function independently.

We have a close example of it in 14. Imagine that you're a SCH main but you can only play summoner for MSQ/Fate/Sidequesting/Bozja because healing classes deal almost less than 10% of DPS damage. Even assuming the gears are shared, that is terrible design. Some people play for class aesthetics, fantasies etc. and they need to be respected. Blizzard certainly does not if you'd look at how different the gameplay/aesthetic is between those "specs" that are essentially just different classes with a few shared abilities.

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

Pretending that FFXIV healers have it better with one nuke, one DoT, and one AoE is sad. I don't get why FFXIV players have this huge inferiority complex about a game they never tried.

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Again I've stated that ffxiv healers have their own problems, namely no real DPS rotation, but the concept of hybrid healer is objectively superior because it offers more gameplay potential to us. RPG games are not just about instanced raids/dungeons. Every class needs offensive capabilities in a world where the basic gameplay for every character is to kill monsters. "Worst" case if healers get more DPS abilities in the future, you're welcome to just... not use them?

Please don't assume most of us never played WoW healers. I did, and they sucked.

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

I would much rather need to heal a lot than spam glare over and over.

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Sure. I would rather juggle between healing and a semi DPS rotation, why not make that an option? SGE is a good step but it's still too conservative in terms of DPS abilities.

Another reminder that raising the skill ceiling and raising the skill floor are neither the same thing nor have to be equally synchronized. If someone doesn't already use DPS actions and only plays content where all they have to do is heal, then adding more won't change the complexity of how they personally approach the game.

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Originally Posted by MellowMink

Another reminder that raising the skill ceiling and raising the skill floor are neither the same thing nor have to be equally synchronized. If someone doesn't already use DPS actions and only plays content where all they have to do is heal, then adding more won't change the complexity of how they personally approach the game.

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This is the bit I don't understand.

- Healers are suppose to heal, not DPS. DPS is only a bonus secondary thing. It's not required.
- Okay, can we have more DPS skills because we have this section where we're not healing? It'll break it up for us.
- No, it'll make things too difficult for lower skilled healers.

I know from the devs' perspective the problem is that people will expect people to DPS and it's extra pressure. However, nothing about that has changed. To me, if that healer wants to keep their DPS simple & spam broil, I'm not going to care because they're making the effort, I don't pick up DPS who fall behind on DPSing well nor do I on a tank. And if I did, then it'd fall under their harassment clause anyway.

Just update hall of the novice with teachings on how healer DPS can be applied, like "only do it if you have time, prioritise healing - damage is only a bonus" and "it doesn't matter if you don't DPS well as along as the party is alive". It'd a) give those healers ammunition if somebody is like "DPS better" and b) it'd maybe reassure those unconfident healers they don't have to be overwhelmed by having both a healing kit and DPS kit.

Just make vulnerability debuffs more prevalent throughout the game's dungeons , both in boss fights, such as unavoidable damage granting vuln stacks too, and from generic trash. Gear will still be just as relevant, but mass pulling will be riskier and healers will definitely be more distracted.

Everyone happier (except maybe tanks trying to fight in gear 20 levels below their current level and the healers trying to keep them alive in those cases) and not a single class modified.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Just make vulnerability debuffs more prevalent throughout the game's dungeons , both in boss fights, such as unavoidable damage granting vuln stacks too, and from generic trash. Gear will still be just as relevant, but mass pulling will be riskier and healers will definitely be more distracted.

Everyone happier (except maybe tanks trying to fight in gear 20 levels below their current level and the healers trying to keep them alive in those cases) and not a single class modified.

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If one extra sprout is turned off of healing by a wipe, YoshiP will say it's not worth it.

We can't even get consistently damaging Savage content; do you think that work will be done to make leveling dungeons difficult? Remember, everyone needs to clear them to complete the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

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I’d be absolutely cool with this as an alternative route to go down. Even going the route of AV’s opening room where there’s just far too much trash to handle in one pull and adds are legitimately dangerous would be a great step towards making dungeons more engaging again.

SE seemed to loose the courage to make dungeons even remotely challenging by design after Pharos Sirius though. A big shame in my eyes =/

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Originally Posted by BooPoo

I don't get it. Everything you said is kinda true but none of it contradicts my points?



Yes. But not to the extreme where you have to constantly spam healing spells like in WoW. Please don't assume you're the only person that has played the most popular MMO for the past 15 years.



Yes. And do you think that is a good design? In a role playing game, you never see any holy/disc priest or resto druid outside of instances in the open world? If I want to play a disc priest. Then I'll play the disc priest. I do not want to be forced into Shadow just so that I can function independently.

We have a close example of it in 14. Imagine that you're a SCH main but you can only play summoner for MSQ/Fate/Sidequesting/Bozja because healing classes deal almost less than 10% of DPS damage. Even assuming the gears are shared, that is terrible design. Some people play for class aesthetics, fantasies etc. and they need to be respected. Blizzard certainly does not if you'd look at how different the gameplay/aesthetic is between those "specs" that are essentially just different classes with a few shared abilities.



Again I've stated that ffxiv healers have their own problems, namely no real DPS rotation, but the concept of hybrid healer is objectively superior because it offers more gameplay potential to us. RPG games are not just about instanced raids/dungeons. Every class needs offensive capabilities in a world where the basic gameplay for every character is to kill monsters. "Worst" case if healers get more DPS abilities in the future, you're welcome to just... not use them?

Please don't assume most of us never played WoW healers. I did, and they sucked.



Sure. I would rather juggle between healing and a semi DPS rotation, why not make that an option? SGE is a good step but it's still too conservative in terms of DPS abilities.

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Let's just agree to disagree. I would rather have engaging healing with a side of DPS than staring bored while I glare glare glare glare glare glare glare dia glare glare... And I would rather level using a full offspec toolkit in open world content than being forced to use a healing kit of glare and dia to quest.

You're just hating to hate, and it's sad.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I’d be absolutely cool with this as an alternative route to go down. Even going the route of AV’s opening room where there’s just far too much trash to handle in one pull and adds are legitimately dangerous would be a great step towards making dungeons more engaging again.

SE seemed to loose the courage to make dungeons even remotely challenging by design after Pharos Sirius though. A big shame in my eyes =/

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Aurum Vale, Pharos Sirius, Steps of Faith, Shinryu, allowing very easy mode on scripted MSQ fights.

Any time the majority of the playerbase faces a modicum of difficulty they whine to no end.

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Dead DPS do no DPS. Raised DPS do lower DPS. Do the mechanics and don't stand in bad stuff.

WoW expects basic competence. FFXIV is pleasantly surprised by it.

Other games have toxic elitism. FFXIV has toxic casualism.

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This is great.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

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Which is why I am in favor of nerfing max item level. Not just for ARR content, but across the board. If done, this would help healers a bit (in my opinion).

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

Which is why I am in favor of nerfing max item level. Not just for ARR content, but across the board. If done, this would help healers a bit (in my opinion).

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That's still not going to resolve repetition issues with single-player content like Main Scenario quests though.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Aurum Vale, Pharos Sirius, Steps of Faith, Shinryu, allowing very easy mode on scripted MSQ fights.

Any time the majority of the playerbase faces a modicum of difficulty they whine to no end.

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And hence we always arrive at this point where as healers we ask for better DPS options. It doesn't make anything harder if you don't want it to. Every other solution will make healing harder, which I am happy for and would prefer before the balance is way off.

Given their cracking down on players telling other players how they should play and putting down other players, I feel like the line "but some people expect healers to DPS and put that pressure on them" shouldn't apply anymore. And I don't think attitudes should affect job design. I'm happy letting people play the job the way they like as long as they keep the party alive best they can. Though my expectation for DPS will be at higher end content. But this is because DPS checks are tighter and enrage timers are a thing.

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Originally Posted by MellowMink

That's still not going to resolve repetition issues with single-player content like Main Scenario quests though.

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Other games do it with difficulty sliders. And we already have them. Problem is that normal actually is very easy. And then there is easy and very easy (never tried it but I can only imagine lol). Give us hard and very hard and tie an achievement to it. Done. The PotD treatment, basically.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Other games do it with difficulty sliders. And we already have them. Problem is that normal actually is very easy. And then there is easy and very easy (never tried it but I can only imagine lol). Give us hard and very hard and tie an achievement to it. Done. The PotD treatment, basically.

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I've played one game that went further and added an impossible difficulty. The point was simply to see how much damage you could do before you lost, since the boss would 1 shot you with damage that was like, 100× your max hp.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Other games do it with difficulty sliders. And we already have them. Problem is that normal actually is very easy. And then there is easy and very easy (never tried it but I can only imagine lol). Give us hard and very hard and tie an achievement to it. Done. The PotD treatment, basically.

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How would a difficulty slider make playing solo duties as a Healer more engaging? Esp. as in at least half of them it feels like there's no point to healing the npcs(if there are any).

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

Let's just agree to disagree. I would rather have engaging healing with a side of DPS than staring bored while I glare glare glare glare glare glare glare dia glare glare... And I would rather level using a full offspec toolkit in open world content than being forced to use a healing kit of glare and dia to quest.

You're just hating to hate, and it's sad.

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I'm sorry. You started the convo by replying to my post with your harsh and self-contradicting opinion. But when I provided valid counter points you resorted to "agree to disagree", accusing me for "hating to hate"? Can you even explain why you think any of my points are objectively wrong?

Quit the bullshit casual healbot mindset. You don't even know what you should be asking for. Healers can have full engaging healing AND a good DPS rotation with substantial damage. You're welcome to level with a BLM just to play WHM in artificially designed small instances but don't assume that is a popular opinion here.

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Originally Posted by Sani2341

How would a difficulty slider make playing solo duties as a Healer more engaging? Esp. as in at least half of them it feels like there's no point to healing the npcs(if there are any).

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It wouldn't really; you may need to heal slightly more often for certain solo instances, but how you attack mobs is still going to be fundamentally repetitive due to limited DPS actions.

Kinda wish they had more healer mechanics in this game that worked like old old FF, aka healing undead = damage. They definitely sprinkle it around here and there already in game but not nearly enough... lul

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Kinda wish they had more healer mechanics in this game that worked like old old FF, aka healing undead = damage. They definitely sprinkle it around here and there already in game but not nearly enough... lul

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That would be pretty interesting to see in some raids, and it shouldn't be a problem either since newer raids are basically guaranteed to have at least one healer in the party.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Kinda wish they had more healer mechanics in this game that worked like old old FF, aka healing undead = damage. They definitely sprinkle it around here and there already in game but not nearly enough... lul

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If healing undead = damage like in the single player FF games, just bring a WHM to the undead boss and 1 shot it with Benediction.

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

If healing undead = damage like in the single player FF games, just bring a WHM to the undead boss and 1 shot it with Benediction.

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It wouldn't necessarily have to be for the boss; it could be for certain adds that it spawns as a brief mechanic that shows up a few times throughout the longer battle.

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Originally Posted by MellowMink

It wouldn't necessarily have to be for the boss; it could be for certain adds that it spawns as a brief mechanic that shows up a few times throughout the longer battle.

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The Dragon Heads in Shinyru Extreme that needed to be healed was really fun. I would love to see more creative uses for our wealth of healing skills. Debuffs that require overhealing to be cleansed. NPC's that actually show up in the party list like a Chocobo. Teammates being turned Undead temporarily and being hurt by healing skills. Debuffs that increase our spell MP cost or remove the use of Abilites altogether. Healing could be much more engaging if they tried any number of gimmicks to push us to think more critically with our tools. They could even design encounters meant to be run with only 4 healers with a Duty Actions for Provoke. Tuning an encounter for that where we serve as triage on the battlefield for a large scale npc encounter would be nuts. Our kit could be fun if encounters were designed for it but alas healers are being given awkward shoes to fill instead.