Next Jobs

I been anxiously waiting for a new job that uses water spells, the element was slowly removed from everywhere and, as my favorite element, I would love to see a class that does so, may be Rune Fencer? Thoughts?;)

Geomancer would be my first bet.

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Originally Posted by Katnille

I been anxiously waiting for a new job that uses water spells, the element was slowly removed from everywhere and, as my favorite element, I would love to see a class that does so, may be Rune Fencer? Thoughts?;)

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new job for water spells? I want white mage to get the freaking waterga it deserves or water 3 if the sharlayans feel as pissy as they did with cure naming .

The Geaomancer NPC finally has his school of “Wind and Water” open and teaching students in Kugane

I really want a job that uses Water a lot too! It’s my favourite element also, so having a Geomancer use it a lot would be a dream come true for me.

Geomancer is certainly possible. But honestly outside of Black Mage Fire/Blizzard (Thunder is kind of a third wheel honestly) it’s not like the six other elements have much of a dedicated mage to them offensively speaking. So I wouldn’t necessarily expect that to be resolved.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

Geomancer is certainly possible. But honestly outside of Black Mage Fire/Blizzard (Thunder is kind of a third wheel honestly) it’s not like the six other elements have much of a dedicated mage to them offensively speaking. So I wouldn’t necessarily expect that to be resolved.

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That's some awkward logic there.

"There's already a gap so don't expect it to be filled." versus "There's a gap, so they're likely to fill it."
Filling gaps is their entire job design philosophy.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

That's some awkward logic there.

"There's already a gap so don't expect it to be filled." versus "There's a gap, so they're likely to fill it."
Filling gaps is their entire job design philosophy.

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So then you're proposing that we get dedicated Water/Wind/Earth/Light/Dark offensive magic all from Geomancer? Because currently those elements all lack an offensive mage. To say nothing of the fact Thunder is kind of weakly represented in Black Mage relative to Fire/Ice. After a certain point you can't realistically expect those roles to be filled. Nor is there any indication they want to fill those roles. They could have had Red Mage do it after all.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

So then you're proposing that we get dedicated Water/Wind/Earth/Light/Dark offensive magic all from Geomancer? Because currently those elements all lack an offensive mage. To say nothing of the fact Thunder is kind of weakly represented in Black Mage relative to Fire/Ice. After a certain point you can't realistically expect those roles to be filled. Nor is there any indication they want to fill those roles. They could have had Red Mage do it after all.

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Since when did that mean ALL gaps have to be filled THIS INSTANT?

No, all I meant by their job design philosophy is that they try to do something that isn't already being done by something else within that role.

Tanks didn't have a 'techy' job, so they gave us Gunbreaker.
DPS didn't have a real swordsman so they gave us Samurai.
They didn't look at melee DPS as go "well we're lacking swords, maces and hammers so lets make a job with all three!"

I'd argue that Red Mage was filling a gap at the time. Not only did it bring two 'white' elements into a caster DPS role, but it also used Thunder more prominently.

A caster using dedicated wind and water magic, and probably some earth in there as well, is a gap that could realistically be filled by Geomancer.
A caster that uses light/dark magic is another gap, which could realistically be filled by another job, such as Onmyoji/Oracle.
See how that works?

It sounds like you're arguing that they should just stop making any new jobs because the game is done and we have what we have, any gaps will remain unfilled, nothing else will change.
As an MMO this is a game that is still in development.

I'm more arguing that because you see theoretical gaps that the developer team does not really. So far your argument for it is.. really weak. Red Mage barely uses Earth, and uses less Wind spells than White Mage did in Stormblood. There isn't any indicator that they were trying to give a "techy" job to Tanks either. After all I can easily point at the VIII theme that Shadowbringers has (even if it's mostly just Eden) and argue that as a possible inspiration. Or any number of other possible answers.

Long story short, these "gaps" you're seeing aren't really ones they probably see. If they are they clearly aren't in any rush to fill them. And unless you're able to actually provide evidence that the team is concerned about giving tech jobs or elementally themed jobs or whatever then it seems unlikely to be an important matter. Especially when you consider all jobs use aether so specific elemental representation probably isn't on the forefront of their concerns.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

I'm more arguing that because you see theoretical gaps that the developer team does not really. So far your argument for it is.. really weak. Red Mage barely uses Earth, and uses less Wind spells than White Mage did in Stormblood. There isn't any indicator that they were trying to give a "techy" job to Tanks either. After all I can easily point at the VIII theme that Shadowbringers has (even if it's mostly just Eden) and argue that as a possible inspiration. Or any number of other possible answers.

Long story short, these "gaps" you're seeing aren't really ones they probably see. If they are they clearly aren't in any rush to fill them. And unless you're able to actually provide evidence that the team is concerned about giving tech jobs or elementally themed jobs or whatever then it seems unlikely to be an important matter. Especially when you consider all jobs use aether so specific elemental representation probably isn't on the forefront of their concerns.

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I'm merely saying they are potential gaps.
There are multiple gaps that could be filled with various jobs, Geomancer is one of those.

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Originally Posted by Katnille

I been anxiously waiting for a new job that uses water spells, the element was slowly removed from everywhere and, as my favorite element, I would love to see a class that does so, may be Rune Fencer? Thoughts?;)

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Best guess would be that Rune Fencer/Knight will be a tank class.

Something akin to mixing Samurai's stack rotation with Gunbreakers burst phase, different moves give different rune slots, different rune slot combinations give different burst moves, that sorta thing

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I'm merely saying they are potential gaps.
There are multiple gaps that could be filled with various jobs, Geomancer is one of those.

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Sure, but again they aren't gaps that they've shown any inclination to fill. I'm sure I could come up with a hundred hypothetical gaps of things they haven't filled yet (tank without a bladed weapon, other jobs using a main weapon and off hand in the other roles, other Mending/Scouting MDPS, so on and so forth), but most of these aren't gaps that they probably care about. With zero evidence that actually supports it being a thing there isn't any reason to see it as a concern. This, again, isn't saying it won't happen, but it's unlikely to be for "filling gaps", because, again, they don't seem to be doing that to begin with.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

Sure, but again they aren't gaps that they've shown any inclination to fill.

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And this is a tautologous argument.
Any gaps will be as of yet unfilled, because they are currently gaps. That doesn't mean they never will be.

They do not release new jobs where that jobs design or mechanics already exist, they don't release jobs that are deemed too similar to other existing jobs, therefore all new jobs are necessarily 'filling gaps'. The opposite of 'filling a gap' would be replicating something that already exists, which they don't do.

It really isn't. Again, if they were saying "we want to add a Wind/Water/Earth/Light/Dark/Thunder/whatever else Mage" then you would have more of an argument. Otherwise it just looks like you're attempting to make up claims for why they add what they do. So far they haven't said any of what you are proposing they do. And again, that gaps are filled does not mean they sought something to explicitly fill those gaps.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

It really isn't. Again, if they were saying "we want to add a Wind/Water/Earth/Light/Dark/Thunder/whatever else Mage" then you would have more of an argument. Otherwise it just looks like you're attempting to make up claims for why they add what they do. So far they haven't said any of what you are proposing they do. And again, that gaps are filled does not mean they sought something to explicitly fill those gaps.

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I think you're misrepresenting my argument. I'm not saying 'filling gaps' is their only, or even first concern, but it is an important part of their job philosophy.
They've even said as much when discussing their processes. That they 'come up with ideas for new jobs, and then see where they will fit'.

Also the gap hasn’t been so glaring until this expansion. We had someone using Wind/Earth and a hint of water until level 70. So now there is a gap that needs filled. A chance for there to be the foil to the Black Mage casting and focus. White Mage lost those elements, and it’s not like they are just going to never bring up those elements again. You could say white mage gets them when synced so it’s all good, but story wise syncing isn’t canon. It’s just to help new players.

So they aren’t going to bring out new expansions and not have these missing elements. That’s pretty much how all of the calamities started to begin with, overuse or underuse of certain Aether.

Yo mirror leave alone. Your arguing not only is exactly as he labels: a tautological redundancy. But it serves no purppse. Its an empty argument. There is going to be new jobs and they are going to fill gaps. And further the wind water earth gap IS one of the more noticable gaps.

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Originally Posted by Vendalwind

Yo mirror leave alone. Your arguing not only is exactly as he labels: a tautological redundancy. But it serves no purppse. Its an empty argument. There is going to be new jobs and they are going to fill gaps. And further the wind water earth gap IS one of the more noticable gaps.

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It’s also the gap that happened with one class losing the elements and an npc opening a school to teach those exact same elements during the same expansion (that they had already been building up for 2 years.)

With an Addition or Geomancer as a Healer, and Beastmaster as a Ranged DPS, they both don’t really need to add new jobs. We know Geomancer is in high demand, and we know a healer is coming next. We know Ranged DPS has only 3 jobs compared to Melee and Caster having 4 (I count Blue Mage as both Caster and All-Rounder.). And we know that Beastmaster is a traditional FF job that is high in demand as well. Beastmaster makes so much sense to give a whip and make it a ranged attacker- which makes even more sense because whips in FF attack with full power from the back row.. They could even invert it to Ninja and have it scale with Strength instead of Dexterity.

After that, they’ve basically given us every reasonable traditional jobs, and if they wanted to add more they’re free to think more outside the box.

Personally, after Geomancer and Beastmaster, I really don’t care to see any more jobs added to this game.

I mean, technically we still have someone using Wind and Earth (White Mage hasn't lost any Water spells so it's still the same amount) in Red Mage. We also have Summoner using Earth and Wind as well. So it's really Water, but Water has been at the same dearth of activity since 2.0 started, it's unusual but again clearly not something they're in any rush to change.

So long story short there is a Water gap, but as noticeable as it may be they don't seem to really be hurrying to fill it. Does this mean we might get Geomancer? Certainly. But the one Geomancer we saw didn't even use offensive based Water magic, and if we aren't limiting things to offensive water magic then there are no doubt other spells that use water aether for non-offensive purposes.

You're also throwing around tautology a lot Vendal without a firm grasp of what it means or what I'm arguing, you should probably do a better job of reading before trying to make a claim that's false. None of what I'm arguing is a tautology.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

So then you're proposing that we get dedicated Water/Wind/Earth/Light/Dark offensive magic all from Geomancer?

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That's quite the leap in logic. For starters, I don't think anybody else said anything about Light or Dark magic for Geomancer. Not every gap needs to be filled simultaneously by exactly one addition.

Second, Light and Dark aren't official elements in terms of damage, and are always treated as Unaspected magic damage. Aesthetically however, WHM, RDM, and BLM already dip into them - Holy (and Verholy by extension), Glare, Dia, and the Afflatus line for Light, and Foul and Xenoglossy for Dark (utilizing Voidsent cast effects). When Thaumaturge specialized in Umbral and Astral damage in 1.0, Bio was considered the Umbral counterpart to Dia, so you could argue SCH and SMN dip into Dark with it and their Drain spells; this also fits with Broil utilizing the same Dark effects used by Ascians, DRK... or any enemy who casts "Dark".

We also have Wind and Earth available through RDM and SMN. Water's really the only untapped elemental magic - not to say we can't have a caster that dips into other elements as well.

As far as GEO goes, I don't think I've heard anyone propose it use more that Water, Wind, Earth, and maybe Fire.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

I'm more arguing that because you see theoretical gaps that the developer team does not really. So far your argument for it is.. really weak. Red Mage barely uses Earth, and uses less Wind spells than White Mage did in Stormblood.

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Oddly picky about your representation.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

But the one Geomancer we saw didn't even use offensive based Water magic, and if we aren't limiting things to offensive water magic then there are no doubt other spells that use water aether for non-offensive purposes.

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That's like comparing the RDM we received to the one instance of Alisaie using an aetherial sword in HW.

Bearing in mind "the one Geomancer we saw", if you mean Kyokuho, only had 3 spells. I would highly doubt the devs instilled one NPC with the entirety of their design philosophy for a classic job multiple expansions before hypothetical implementation; all he highlights is that Geomancer is established within the lore, giving it a backdoor for entry as a job should the devs so desire.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

With an Addition or Geomancer as a Healer, and Beastmaster as a Ranged DPS, they both don’t really need to add new jobs. We know Geomancer is in high demand, and we know a healer is coming next. We know Ranged DPS has only 3 jobs compared to Melee and Caster having 4 (I count Blue Mage as both Caster and All-Rounder.). And we know that Beastmaster is a traditional FF job that is high in demand as well. Beastmaster makes so much sense to give a whip and make it a ranged attacker- which makes even more sense because whips in FF attack with full power from the back row.. They could even invert it to Ninja and have it scale with Strength instead of Dexterity.

After that, they’ve basically given us every reasonable traditional jobs, and if they wanted to add more they’re free to think more outside the box.

Personally, after Geomancer and Beastmaster, I really don’t care to see any more jobs added to this game.

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With Yoshi P stating how Bst would make a good limited job, I wouldn't really put all my eggs in that basket just yet, especially with how we just got a physical ranged this expansion.

A healer and a caster will be coming.

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

With Yoshi P stating how Bst would make a good limited job, I wouldn't really put all my eggs in that basket just yet, especially with how we just got a physical ranged this expansion.

A healer and a caster will be coming.

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I was thinking the same. Im also more leaning toward the alchemist as a new healer. Geomancer could fill any role really (although I'd rather them not make it a dps... I feel like there's enough elemental magic in that category

But at this point it's not a matter of what but when.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

But the one Geomancer we saw didn't even use offensive based Water magic, and if we aren't limiting things to offensive water magic then there are no doubt other spells that use water aether for non-offensive purposes.

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You're forgetting the Four Lords arc with the Swallows Compass and Sai Taisui. Adding in the lore about Ganen, the founder of Geomancy.
An entire dungeon based around Geomancy, offensive Geomancy to boot.
The AST quest is a footnote compared to all that.

I want beast master as the next dps job, I'd even take it as a tank.

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

With Yoshi P stating how Bst would make a good limited job, I wouldn't really put all my eggs in that basket just yet, especially with how we just got a physical ranged this expansion.

A healer and a caster will be coming.

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Nah I’m gonna bet on it. Very few people actually respond well to the concept of limited jobs, and those of us who actually play Blue Mage more than just to 60 know that it’s not the most broken concept. A limited job is a design choice to test something that they might have thought would not work out, but at this point, Blue Mage is something that should certainly be a part of normal gameplay. Learning spells is just more natural when they can pick them up as they level in the duty finder, and it’s been beyond proven that it is not the solo content that it was intended to be because it can’t do a damn thing without getting its hand held by a party. Imagine being a healer and you get 1 raise every 300 seconds while red mage can chain raise. Limited is not working. Beastmaster does not have the same testing issues that Blue Mage does- not even close. Yoshi said it might be a limited job like a year ago when this community didn’t completely realize what a terrible idea it was. With many people desiring a Ranger class because Bard doesn’t fulfill that fantasy for them, it’s only logical to have Beastmaster fill a kind of “hunter/tamer” role.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

That's quite the leap in logic. For starters, I don't think anybody else said anything about Light or Dark magic for Geomancer. Not every gap needs to be filled simultaneously by exactly one addition.

Second, Light and Dark aren't official elements in terms of damage, and are always treated as Unaspected magic damage. Aesthetically however, WHM, RDM, and BLM already dip into them - Holy (and Verholy by extension), Glare, Dia, and the Afflatus line for Light, and Foul and Xenoglossy for Dark (utilizing Voidsent cast effects). When Thaumaturge specialized in Umbral and Astral damage in 1.0, Bio was considered the Umbral counterpart to Dia, so you could argue SCH and SMN dip into Dark with it and their Drain spells; this also fits with Broil utilizing the same Dark effects used by Ascians, DRK... or any enemy who casts "Dark".

We also have Wind and Earth available through RDM and SMN. Water's really the only untapped elemental magic - not to say we can't have a caster that dips into other elements as well.

As far as GEO goes, I don't think I've heard anyone propose it use more that Water, Wind, Earth, and maybe Fire.



Oddly picky about your representation.



That's like comparing the RDM we received to the one instance of Alisaie using an aetherial sword in HW.

Bearing in mind "the one Geomancer we saw", if you mean Kyokuho, only had 3 spells. I would highly doubt the devs instilled one NPC with the entirety of their design philosophy for a classic job multiple expansions before hypothetical implementation; all he highlights is that Geomancer is established within the lore, giving it a backdoor for entry as a job should the devs so desire.

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1a. I didn't say anyone said Light/Dark were tied to Geomancer, but they are still distinctly lacking in terms of offensive representation. If people are going to put forward that Water needs representation then so too do Light and Dark. At which point we're basically just saying "anything Black Mage doesn't use could show up" which is hardly a meaningful distinction.
1b. Whether they are treated as elements in terms of damage (which, outside of Blue Mage, is a meaningless distinction anyways) they are acknowledged as being present. They get their own distinct color of aether, which is the same as wind/earth/water/the rest of them, at which point there isn't really any argument for them not being lumped in as a category.
1c. You can see the aether used by Summoners, it's unaspected, not dark. And if two spells is enough to qualify an element as represented then Red Mage already has that with Wind. So you're really only defeating your own argument about these elements and their representation if two is enough to qualify.
1d. Ah, you're arguing something a bit different then. If you're simply arguing Water is lacking in representation that's not the same as the "we need to represent these three elements" stance others are pointing out. But as I said, Water clearly isn't something they're all that concerned about representing. They could easily have given it to Red Mage after all.
1e. You definitely misunderstand what I proposed if that's what you read. It wasn't "Geomancer should have all of these" but "all of these elements are 'missing', and Geomancer isn't fixing all of them".

2. Not sure I follow. You'd have to elaborate a bit. My best guess is you mean something like "those should count as representation" when, to me, I'm not really counting something as representation of elemental aspects unless it's on the scale of Black Mage Fire/Ice. Even their Thunder is a bit weak for my tastes.

3a. It's pointing out that they had a chance to show a Water spell for offense and chose not to. If we're really to take it as just limitations then why did they specifically change it from the default Wind aether used for healing spells from Scholar/White Mage? Actually, double checking, it looks like Astro does Water for healing, so it's quite possible that would be why. Though as it's supposedly based on Conjurer that still means they chose specifically to add Water as a healing spell as opposed to damage. The broad point here is that we've seen Geomancer, and it only used Water aether for healing, it's entirely probable that's what it'll do as a proper job.

3b. Sure? They still chose those three spells for a reason presumably, this game likes to make little hidden easter eggs. As it stands currently we know they didn't simply take spells from one job and rename them, they took spells from multiple jobs or made up spells entirely. Instead of taking the easy way out they made it more difficult. Which means, again presumably, there is a reason. What I'm doing is proposing a reason for it.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

I was thinking the same. Im also more leaning toward the alchemist as a new healer. Geomancer could fill any role really (although I'd rather them not make it a dps... I feel like there's enough elemental magic in that category

But at this point it's not a matter of what but when.

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Black Mage using too many elements for your taste? Haha

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Nah I’m gonna bet on it. Very few people actually respond well to the concept of limited jobs, and those of us who actually play Blue Mage more than just to 60 know that it’s not the most broken concept. A limited job is a design choice to test something that they might have thought would not work out, but at this point, Blue Mage is something that should certainly be a part of normal gameplay. Learning spells is just more natural when they can pick them up as they level in the duty finder, and it’s been beyond proven that it is not the solo content that it was intended to be because it can’t do a damn thing without getting its hand held by a party. Imagine being a healer and you get 1 raise every 300 seconds while red mage can chain raise. Limited is not working. Beastmaster does not have the same testing issues that Blue Mage does- not even close. Yoshi said it might be a limited job like a year ago when this community didn’t completely realize what a terrible idea it was. With many people desiring a Ranger class because Bard doesn’t fulfill that fantasy for them, it’s only logical to have Beastmaster fill a kind of “hunter/tamer” role.

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Actually, Blue Mage is working great, from a developer standpoint. Just because you don’t enjoy how it works in this game doesn’t mean it hasn’t done well. Pretty much every person you speak to has leveled BLU to 60, or has at least unlocked it. I actually don’t think you can even find an interview where the FFXIV team has said anything but praise for how the class turned out.

Your dislike is not a universal experience. And while I personally don’t get that hype about the blue mage content, it was by no means a failure. They made side content and almost every player played it, that’s a win for them.

I just want Necromancer. I know it probably won't happen, and even if it does, not in a way I'd approve. But I still want it.

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

With Yoshi P stating how Bst would make a good limited job, I wouldn't really put all my eggs in that basket just yet, especially with how we just got a physical ranged this expansion.

A healer and a caster will be coming.

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And to back up your statement, BST and PUP were both briefly mentioned during the lvl 60 BLU update. They were brought up as being a major part of the Carnival operations; tamers breeding and raising beasts and engineers constructing mammets for you and Martin to fight.

That is one of, if not, the only time BST was eluded to. I guess Hildibrand literally using Charm on that eagle during Stormblood sorta counts.

Supposedly Gabranth is mentioned as a Beastmaster of some sort too. My guess is an NPC brings it up, as i didn’t notice it just going through the Resistance story.

That aside BST doesn’t work as a normal job really. They could give it set monsters, make it more like Ranger or the like I suppose with actual animals, but otherwise I don’t see it working out. And if they did it would need a new weapon if it’s RDPS.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

Supposedly Gabranth is mentioned as a Beastmaster of some sort too. My guess is an NPC brings it up, as i didn’t notice it just going through the Resistance story.

That aside BST doesn’t work as a normal job really. They could give it set monsters, make it more like Ranger or the like I suppose with actual animals, but otherwise I don’t see it working out. And if they did it would need a new weapon if it’s RDPS.

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It’s not supposedly, he is called it. Talk to the npc next to Balsaljen in the relic quest zone and he says “Gabranth is a powerful Beastmaster”. You have to select the “Tell me about Gabranth” option.

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

Actually, Blue Mage is working great, from a developer standpoint. Just because you don’t enjoy how it works in this game doesn’t mean it hasn’t done well. Pretty much every person you speak to has leveled BLU to 60, or has at least unlocked it. I actually don’t think you can even find an interview where the FFXIV team has said anything but praise for how the class turned out.

Your dislike is not a universal experience. And while I personally don’t get that hype about the blue mage content, it was by no means a failure. They made side content and almost every player played it, that’s a win for them.

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Didn’t say I’m not enjoying it. Clearly my avatar is wearing the BLU mask right now, so I’m definitely playing with it. I’m saying there’s a lot wrong and it’s reasonable to make it a normal job with the others. You assume I dislike it, but I love the job iteration in FFXIV. It’s just impractical to not have it naturally progress the with other jobs, even if it’s ability learning is alternative. I spoke with a friend the other week about it and he refuses to touch the job because limited job is foolish design. I encouraged him to try it because it’s quite fun, but it doesn’t change the fact that it seriously does not deserve to be left out of the others.

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

It’s not supposedly, he is called it. Talk to the npc next to Balsaljen in the relic quest zone and he says “Gabranth is a powerful Beastmaster”. You have to select the “Tell me about Gabranth” option.

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I said “supposedly” not because I doubted it but couldn’t double check and wasn’t given any information to figure it out beyond it being in the Resistance line. That’s all. Even if I think something is likely or accurate I won’t state it as such unless I can check for myself.

Mirron, I'm just going to ask you this once.
Please read a post to its conclusion before replying. Don't hit "reply" and then start reading and writing bullets as you go. Don't do the "stream of consciousness" when you're going to contradict yourself later or realize you're not arguing for what you thought you were. It's hard to reply to you, because the "spur of the moment" reply style you have makes you purely reactive and contrarian, and makes it hard to tell what you mean to argue for.
The way you write is no different from if you wanted to interrupt someone to go on a pedantic tangent, except that their post is already written and their point has already been made.
There is a holistic argument being made for consideration, but you only examine each passage individually. It makes you look the fool.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

I didn't say anyone said Light/Dark were tied to Geomancer, but they are still distinctly lacking in terms of offensive representation. If people are going to put forward that Water needs representation then so too do Light and Dark.

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Again, we already have several classes who specialize in Light and Dark, respectively. PLD and WHM for Light, DRK for Dark, and assorted other jobs who touch on it.
Just because they're not Caster DPS jobs doesn't make the representation any less present in the game as a whole. Meanwhile, thanks to trimming, there is only one Water-based attack available across all jobs: NIN's Suiton.

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And if two spells is enough to qualify an element as represented then Red Mage already has that with Wind. So you're really only defeating your own argument about these elements and their representation if two is enough to qualify.

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What "argument" is that defeating? I literally said that Wind/Earth have representation through RDM and SMN, you're literally making the same point I did. I'm not in some fictitious boat saying they're underrepresented elements just because BLM isn't using them.
Water is underrepresented, sure, and if the devs see fit to build the next caster around it and those other elements then I have no objection, as I'm sure most of us can agree.
I don't think the devs take "What elements haven't we used" in itself as a major consideration when choosing jobs to design (since mechanically, all magic is Magic Damage regardless of element, unless the job itself has some distinction like AF/UI), but I do think that GEO is an excellent job choice to add to the Caster roster (partly due to lack of other realistic options; partly due to its unique aesthetics, rich lore, and support potential), and it just happens to use several of the elements BLM avoids, including potential for offensive Water magic.

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You definitely misunderstand what I proposed if that's what you read. It wasn't "Geomancer should have all of these" but "all of these elements are 'missing', and Geomancer isn't fixing all of them".

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Which is a non-sequitur argument to make in the first place; once again, you're being too broad with your counterpoint. Your logic could be applied exactly the same way to any future job that doesn't cover at least those 5 elements, substituting out the word "Geomancer" for whatever name, and could be used in an attempt to block literally any future addition to the caster lineup.

Look, I get that you're trying to say "they're not going to add a job just because it has <X> missing magic type."
But that's not what anyone is proposing.
OP is just asking to see Water represented by a future addition to the roster; a harmless request made from hype, not some arbitrary barrier to entry for other jobs or a request to stop production on anything that doesn't have it.
GEO could, just by sheer coincidence, fit exactly the criteria OP is asking for... but that's not the sole basis to include GEO or the only reason GEO's requested.

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I'm not really counting something as representation of elemental aspects unless it's on the scale of Black Mage Fire/Ice. Even their Thunder is a bit weak for my tastes.

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Part of the problem with that line of thinking about the "depth" of representation, is that any caster job would essentially have to be BLM with their spells reskinned to match new elements in order to qualify.
Bearing in mind that the way BLM is built up, the level of "depth" Fire and Ice magic get comes from being the majority of the job's arsenal; the more elements you add to a job with a fixed number of Spell/Ability/Trait slots for advancement, the more diluted each element will inevitably become within their arsenal, as we see with RDM and NIN. BLM and SMN each have distinct "purposes" for each element at their disposal, yet you cherrypick BLM because it has 4-6 spells of a given element (even when more of them fall into disuse over time or are overwritten by new additions) where SMN has each element consolidated in a pet.

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The broad point here is that we've seen Geomancer, and it only used Water aether for healing, it's entirely probable that's what it'll do as a proper job.

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Again, Kyokuho did. He's also not the only GEO in the game, with the Sai Taisui of Swallow's Compass and Heaven on High using water exclusively for damage.

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They still chose those three spells for a reason presumably,

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They chose them because an NPC you're only going to have support you for one questline to supplement your crap damage output (and one whose actions you probably won't be watching much anyway) isn't going to need a particular depth to their arsenal and is just going to use a basic script to attack anyway, and because Kyokuho was quickly thrown together from scraps they recycled from CNJ (including the wand casting animations they already had in place, which worked with his unique 'rattle'). Anything more would have been unnecessary effort, particularly when coding the NPC's attack behavior.
This is the same way that Alisaie and Thancred used GLA attacks before RDM and ROG were implemented, or how the Trusts for Ryne, Alphinaud and Y'shtola are billed as unique jobs but are essentially ROG, SCH and BLM with some extra spells. Hell, it's the same reason we see Onmyoji NPCs casting THM spells even when Yoshi-P has gone on record to say that was a job previously in development. It's just the devs recycling data and making an easy script for NPC actions, and doesn't act as a restriction on or indicator of how a full job addition would play. You cannot base a potential job off how an NPC ally is coded; hell, you can't even base it purely off how an enemy is coded, which requires a great deal of expansion even when they have unique skills.

Could they give GEO a water-based heal? Sure, sorta like how RDM gets Vercure, SMN has a healing aura with Phoenix up, or SMN and BLM get personal barriers. I'm still of the mindset that BLM should get Drain back for some personal survivability while questing, and maybe emphasize Titan-Egi's barrier ability for SMN for the same reason.
Does that have to be the only Water spell GEO has, prevent GEO from learning Water magic to attack, or denote GEO to become a Healer job? God no.

1. What I am arguing for, again, is the same thing I have said every single solitary time this subject has been brought up. If you can't remember then I'm not sure what to say. And if you want to question me on it I'll drag through threads and find my replies on the matter for proof. They exist, you should be able to remember something simple and straight forward when I've already gone after you for forgetting what I said previously. To reiterate though, and remember this time since you seem to have difficulty with that, I am simply saying Geomancers could be a healer. Nothing about what they have says they will be an offensive mage. So saying we need a Water mage is pretty pointless as a distinction again.

2. If the argument is that they don't need to be Caster DPS then it's really irrelevant to what I'm arguing. Because I would argue you can have a Healer Geomancer with Water offense just fine.

3. I'm not really the one arguing that we need a Water rep, so it's kind of a moot argument to pin on me.

4. If we're lowering the threshold of what counts then, again, I reiterate that it doesn't need to be a Caster to have Water representation. Which is entirely my point.

5. The Sai Taisui seem to be some sort of non-human entity, and I'm disinclined to really place much stock in what that means.

6. I mean, if they really wanted to just give Kyokuho a Conjurer moveset they could have done that. He does have a different healing spell. Which, to me, points at intent. There isn't really a good reason to change it from just Conjurer if they aren't going to use it as a hint at things.

I’m on mobile so I’m not even going to try and quote and delete all of that to get to the part I actually want to talk about.

The Sai Taisui are shikigami created by Geomancers. They are the same as the Koja and shikigami you meet throughout Stormblood. Except, they can only be created with mud collected where the leylines of water, earth and wind Aether intersects. It’s why they really show up at Swallow’s Compass (because they dungeon was created at the specific spot in Yanxia for this reason.)

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

I am simply saying Geomancers could be a healer.

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Cool! Great! That's your full thought! And others are saying Geomancers could be DPS! Necromancer could be a healer too! Chemist could be a ranged DPS job! DRK or GNB could have been melee and NIN or SAM could have been tanks!
Okay! Appreciated! You've made your point, we all clap and move on.
If the only thing you wanted to say is "It could be a healer", you wouldn't feel the need to argue with the people who expect or want to see it implemented as a DPS.

The big argument against it being a healer -- and it's a pretty strong one -- is that it would be pretty close to CNJ aesthetically, and is a headscratcher on what it could bring to the table that WHM doesn't already have or has already lost for being too powerful (hi Stoneskin). If you had a point about it potentially being a healer, you would argue for what it could bring to the table, instead of simply trying to contradict the people who point out its greater potential as a DPS.

We have a lot of "could be" arguments available for many job candidates! It's also pointless to throw that out there and argue like it's the only solution, especially when you proceed to act like you legitimately don't care which of the two it is, how it's implemented, or even if it is implemented at all.

Can it be implemented as a healer? Fine, sure, yes. A lot of people would be disappointed, but okay, it can be. Probably won't be, and we'd much rather see it fleshed out and being unique.

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So saying we need a Water mage is pretty pointless as a distinction again.

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Nobody said we "need" a Water mage. Nobody is saying it's vital that Water be represented. Nobody is saying "stop production on any caster that doesn't have Water magic" or "force feed some Water magic to a job that doesn't normally use it."
OP just asked to see some Water rep in the future, if possible. That's it.

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I'm not really the one arguing that we need a Water rep, so it's kind of a moot argument to pin on me.

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I wasn't pinning it on you. I'm saying that you use nonsense and petty arguments against it as if Water mages stole your lunch money.

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The Sai Taisui seem to be some sort of non-human entity, and I'm disinclined to really place much stock in what that means.

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The Swallow's Compass is a giant shrine built by Doman Geomancers, occupied by beings who hold exactly the spirit-subjugating powers that the ancient Geomancers are said to have used. Regardless of what the Sai Taisui are, it is an architectural representation of how Geomancy is more than just what we've seen with Kyokuho.
And as BasicBlake said above, they were created by and infused with the power of Geomancy anyway. It's not the first time we've seen magical constructs use the same powers as their creators; you fight a Mhachi golem that tosses out black magic in the BLM storyline, and a Kuribu statue with white magic in one of the Amdapor dungeons.

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I mean, if they really wanted to just give Kyokuho a Conjurer moveset they could have done that. He does have a different healing spell.

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They did give him a Conjurer moveset. All they did was rename the spells.

To say they did more than that is at best flavor, and at worst reading into it.

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There isn't really a good reason to change it from just Conjurer if they aren't going to use it as a hint at things.

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Again... Alisaie wielded an aether sword and fought like a Gladiator. There are Onmyoji NPCs who fight like Thaumaturges.

Look, if they wanted to use it as a "hint" like you say, that would mean they would have had to design the job already so they could use some of its spells as samples. But then they may as well have just implemented the job.
It's more likely that what we see with Kyokuho is what we would call a "placeholder".
Considering the exact spells he uses have no impact on the story so it wouldn't be a retcon to change them, the only thing keeping the devs from going back and giving him a more faithful moveset should they introduce a full GEO job is laziness. We already have enough NPCs running around with dummied-out versions of spells specifically because they don't care what NPCs have in relation to what players keep. Let's be honest, even if they do introduce GEO as a job, they will probably say we practice a different form than Kyokuho has, much like how Sharlayan Astromancy is different from Ishgard's, or our soul crystals give us access to ancient spells lost to time -- expressly for the purpose of not having to go back and recode him.

Geomancy was written as part of the religion, folklore, history and architecture of Othard and Hingashi, so we would inevitably be introduced to some Geomancer NPCs at some point -- it would have been more suspicious not to have. They call Kyokuho a Geomancer because he is, within the lore, a Geomancer and not a Conjurer; they coded him as a Conjurer because, in terms of gameplay, they didn't have a Geomancer set already and Conjurer's moves were the closest to what they had in mind. It's not that complicated.