Not Happy With The New Changes

--EDIT: After reading the interview that occurred after I made this post, I am pleased with the new changes, and they make better sense to me--

Thank you for helping raise awareness about this issue. We really need more people speaking up about this more. I know we should wait until patch day to see how difficult HQ’ing recipes is, but, it’s likely going to hardly make a difference. Also, the rotations are still child’s play. No skill involved at all.

Casuals pay for the game, but veterans do as well. I do not understand the bias that SE has when it comes to one over the other. Heck, it’s not even Square Enix’s fault. It’s Square Enix’s FFXIV development team that seems to not get it. Their crafting developers in particular.

I can't find anywhere that has the information people keep talking about. OP do you happen to have a link to a list of all the changes?

Preliminary Patch notes 5.1

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Preliminary Patch notes 5.1

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Thank you. I've been seeing people ranting and raving about stuff but never even found a translation for the live letter or anything, and I didn't know the prelim patch notes were up.

I don't know why you are surprised by this, them saying they were going to make crafting easier doesn't result in harder crafting content.

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Originally Posted by Bernkastelx

I don't know why you are surprised by this, them saying they were going to make crafting easier doesn't result in harder crafting content.

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^

Yeah, not sure why some people were expecting crafting to get more complicated when SE was saying they wanted to make it less complicated.

Guess it's a matter of hearing what you want to hear and never mind the facts.

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Originally Posted by Bernkastelx

I don't know why you are surprised by this, them saying they were going to make crafting easier doesn't result in harder crafting content.

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I am not surprised at all by this.

I only said, I am unhappy with it.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

^

Yeah, not sure why some people were expecting crafting to get more complicated when SE was saying they wanted to make it less complicated.

Guess it's a matter of hearing what you want to hear and never mind the facts.

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I hear the facts loud and clear.
I had no expectations going into this.
Check the subject of the thread.
I am only saying I am "Not Happy With The New Changes"

Furthermore:

My Genuine concern, if there will be "Leaderboards" with crafting eventually, that implies a competitive nature.
How can there be any competition with such a limited selection of choices?

I am in no way concerned about the economics of accessibility vs increased purchasing power.

I don't bother engaging in Retainer Bell babysitting to compete on the market boards at all.

I am only concerned with actually HOW you can have any meaningful competition without a diversity of choices.

I was all Hyped for this, I was ready and understanding that there would be massive changes.

I just was not prepared to see such a LARGE quantity of skills removed, particularly the meat and potatoes of the specialist actions.

The overall message I am trying to textualize here has two points:

I am not happy with the changes
---The lack of diversity of choice
---The purging of the specialist core skills

I have genuine concerns with how crafting can be competitive in a fair and meaningful way
---RNG =/= Difficulty and if RNG is what determines the leaderboards, that's terrible...
---Gil spent on gear =/= Competitive skill, I hope the leaderboard wont just be who has the most gil

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Originally Posted by Quenadarious

My Genuine concern, if there will be "Leaderboards" with crafting eventually, that implies a competitive nature.
How can there be any competition with such a limited selection of choices?

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Not just leaderboards, but leaderboards with prizes:
https://old.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...th_yoshida_by/

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Q. What is the ranking system for the restoration going to be like?

Y: The ranking will start in 5.2 and it announces who the top contribuers are and just like how the deep dungeon ranking system has "dot pictures for each job", the artits drew the gatherers and crafters with dots. There are also ranking rewards, so i'd like those who are proud to be crafters and gatherers to aim for the top.

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Rankings will probably be done through volume and difficulty. You don't have to worry about competition because there will be rampant botting.

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Originally Posted by Quenadarious

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Honestly I have no idea how they plan to structure the Ishgard Restoration leaderboards. We don't have enough information to draw any conclusions on that front at all.

But I will ask you this: what choice?

You seem to be complaining that they've taken your choices away, but in reality the choices you had were "complete the synth successfully" or "do it wrong." Unless you'd like to make the claim that your gameplay experience was wholly dependent on Standard Touch having a sub-100% success rate?

I'm actually very happy to see superfluous actions being removed or consolidated. My hotbars will be happy with it too because... christ.

As for specialist actions, yeah I can kinda see your point there except that the reality is specialist actions were pointless. With the possible exception of Byregot's Miracle, what did you use? Did you honestly (be honest) use Whistle While you Work regularly? Because then I'd feel it necessary to ask why you were doing that.

Think you are all speaking prematurely on the matter.

The patch notes do cause worry for me. Because change is scary.

Right now crafting really isn't that difficult. All you need to do is read the tool tips, and use the abilities appropriately. So far while leveling my crafters (not max yet, just level 66 across the board) I have noted that there are many abilities I either never use, or have only had reason to use at certain level ranges. This isn't because those abilities are useless, its just that I only have so much durability and CP, and different abilities are a better way to spend those resources.

Cutting out a significant number of DoH abilities won't make the act of crafting any more difficult. Once you have read the tooltips and worked out what to use under what conditions then performing a craft should be pretty much as it is now. The 'difficulty' such as it is, lies in learning to craft, not actually crafting. I hope that makes sense. Point is, once you have worked out the system, there is no difficulty.

So we will need to re-read the tooltips, and work out the best ways to use our abilities again, then it will be back to business as usual.

But I am still worried. Because change is scary. And because I hate the idea of crafting being simplified. I feel that FFXIV has the best crafting system of any MMO since the original implementation of the EQ2 crafting system. The EQ2 system was 'simplified' and lost its luster. I can't help but worry that such could also happen to FFXIV.

Square didn't remove RnG. We did, a long time ago. Every rotation, every meld guide, every macro, all aimed at no RnG, no debate, HQ crafting.


All this did was take the Google out of crafting. Something a lot of people have been asking for.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

Square didn't remove RnG. We did, a long time ago. Every rotation, every meld guide, every macro, all aimed at no RnG, no debate, HQ crafting.


All this did was take the Google out of crafting. Something a lot of people have been asking for.

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Read the Dengeki interview with Yoshida. Endgame crafts will have procs, and he notices the HQ system is broken. So most likely, endgame crafting will actually require thought, and not mindless macros this time. That’s good news.

Edit: Post limit reached. Here is the link https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...th_yoshida_by/

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

Read the Dengeki interview with Yoshida. Endgame crafts will have procs, and he notices the HQ system is broken. So most likely, endgame crafting will actually require thought, and not mindless macros this time. That’s good news.

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I am only finding a 2018 interview, link please?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...th_yoshida_by/
[Ishgard restoration]
Q. What is the ranking system for the restoration going to be like?
Y: The ranking will start in 5.2 and it announces who the top contribuers are and just like how the deep dungeon ranking system has "dot pictures for each job", the artits drew the gatherers and crafters with dots. There are also ranking rewards, so i'd like those who are proud to be crafters and gatherers to aim for the top.
Q. You said the Ishgard restoration begins in patch 5.11, but is the crafter and gatherer rework in 5.1?
Y: The rework is split into 2. One will be in patch 5.1 and the other will be in patch 5.2. 5.1 will introduce some UI improvements but some of the features will only work after 5.2. Most of the current actions are no longer usable and crossed out, so it has quite an impact. The actions with tier 2~3 will be merged and Biergot's action will have an 100% success rate.
Q. From what i've heard so far, it seems like the "high end recipes" won't be craftable with macros
Y: The normal recipes will be craftable if you set them up properly, but the difficult recipes will require you to use the actions with procs properly when they show up and we'd like to design it where you have to actually observe the current situation.
Q. The current crafting system allows you to ignore HQ mats and use macros to craft HQ items.
Y: I thought that part was broken, so DoL/DoH will have overall adjustments. It will change entirely and new crafters and gatherers can instantly understand what to do and what does what.

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Originally Posted by Quenadarious

Q. From what i've heard so far, it seems like the "high end recipes" won't be craftable with macros
Y: The normal recipes will be craftable if you set them up properly, but the difficult recipes will require you to use the actions with procs properly when they show up and we'd like to design it where you have to actually observe the current situation.
Q. The current crafting system allows you to ignore HQ mats and use macros to craft HQ items.
Y: I thought that part was broken, so DoL/DoH will have overall adjustments. It will change entirely and new crafters and gatherers can instantly understand what to do and what does what.

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This has set me at ease now.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Think you are all speaking prematurely on the matter.

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Quite true. This is a fairly accurate assessment...

This is great news. Less actions and less steps to craft. About time they trimmed some fat.

Yes, we'll have to wait and see. They said leveling up would be easier. Also there will be very difficult crafts so that people that get the best gear and melds have some satisfaction.
I hope the cry babies don't make us get very difficult crafts (for very desirable items) on which we lose extra expensive mats a few times until we succeed because of RNG. People complained about raids being too easy, then a difficult raid comes, then a ton of raiders quit because it is too difficult for them. We'll see where the difficulty is in the new difficult to craft items to come.

The fact that there are less ability slots needed on the bar is a good thing, there were too many. There is a total change, we'll have to learn how to use abilities again and adapt to the new situation.

I'm personally glad with the changes, especially the RNG removal

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Originally Posted by JonBigwood

Yes, we'll have to wait and see. They said leveling up would be easier. Also there will be very difficult crafts so that people that get the best gear and melds have some satisfaction.
I hope the cry babies don't make us get very difficult crafts (for very desirable items) on which we lose extra expensive mats a few times until we succeed because of RNG. People complained about raids being too easy, then a difficult raid comes, then a ton of raiders quit because it is too difficult for them. We'll see where the difficulty is in the new difficult to craft items to come.

The fact that there are less ability slots needed on the bar is a good thing, there were too many. There is a total change, we'll have to learn how to use abilities again and adapt to the new situation.

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“Cry babies “ huh, lol.

Ignoring the passive aggressive behavior, you clearly did not read the Dengeki interview with Yoshida carefully. He said endgame recipes will require a proc to complete. In other words, they will not be easy to do, they’ll be RNG dependent. I’m not making this up. He literally said it’s required.

Also, nobody is going to complain about crafting this time...at least not the hardcore or vet crafters. This was desired since 4.0 ruined crafting with prudent touch. Desirable items being locked behind some sort of difficulty is what’s needed. Badly. It shouldn’t be like it is now. Where you can just arbitrarily craft anything you want with no consequences...that’s silly and ridiculous.

By the way, my previous post was a false alarm apparently. I thought endgame crafting was ruined due to 100% guaranteed moves...but endgame requiring PROCS, now? And they’ll likely raise stat requirements higher? That’s great.

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Originally Posted by JonBigwood

I hope the cry babies don't make us get very difficult crafts (for very desirable items)

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That's the most priceless line I've read in a while. Cheers for the laugh.

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

“Cry babies “ huh, lol.

Ignoring the passive aggressive behavior, you clearly did not read the Dengeki interview with Yoshida carefully. He said endgame recipes will require a proc to complete. In other words, they will not be easy to do, they’ll be RNG dependent. I’m not making this up. He literally said it’s required.

Also, nobody is going to complain about crafting this time...at least not the hardcore or vet crafters. This was desired since 4.0 ruined crafting with prudent touch. Desirable items being locked behind some sort of difficulty is what’s needed. Badly. It shouldn’t be like it is now. Where you can just arbitrarily craft anything you want with no consequences...that’s silly and ridiculous.

By the way, my previous post was a false alarm apparently. I thought endgame crafting was ruined due to 100% guaranteed moves...but endgame requiring PROCS, now? And they’ll likely raise stat requirements higher? That’s great.

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Why is RNG == difficulty?

If I don't get the procs I need, that's not difficulty, it's just bad luck. If those procs are required to complete the synth, then getting them or not is not a matter of player skill or responding to anything.. it's just a matter of a dice roll.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Why is RNG == difficulty?

If I don't get the procs I need, that's not difficulty, it's just bad luck. If those procs are required to complete the synth, then getting them or not is not a matter of player skill or responding to anything.. it's just a matter of a dice roll.

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Their entire crafting system seems to be just math and equations (in terms of code, anyway) and there doesn’t seem to be any technically possible way to make it skill based. That is kind of annoying to be honest...but, they choose to make endgame harder, and normal recipes easy still. I honestly see no problem with that. That’s good.

I agree that RNG is not really “hard” since it’s random. But the only way they can make it “hard” is by adding RNG, because I doubt they are going to re-code so many variables in the crafting system. Why do I doubt it? Because they went back to rng again. They didn’t go the skill route. So, logically, that tells you the only way to make it “hard” is by adding rng again.

To me, the answer is simple. If you’re too afraid to take the risk of losing expensive mats or you can’t be bothered to actually think about what you’re doing during an endgame craft, then quite frankly, I don’t think you should be doing endgame. You should stick to normal recipes. Which, there’s plenty of normal recipes that can be profitable. Yoshida is a good guy for listening to hardcore and vet crafters this time, I honestly didn’t think he would do that. :)

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

Their entire crafting system seems to be just math and equations (in terms of code, anyway) and there doesn’t seem to be any technically possible way to make it skill based. That is kind of annoying to be honest...but, they choose to make endgame harder, and normal recipes easy still. I honestly see no problem with that. That’s good.

I agree that RNG is not really “hard” since it’s random. But the only way they can make it “hard” is by adding RNG, because I doubt they are going to re-code so many variables in the crafting system. Why do I doubt it? Because they went back to rng again. They didn’t go the skill route. So, logically, that tells you the only way to make it “hard” is by adding rng again.

To me, the answer is simple. If you’re too afraid to take the risk of losing expensive mats or you can’t be bothered to actually think about what you’re doing during an endgame craft, then quite frankly, I don’t think you should be doing endgame. You should stick to normal recipes. Which, there’s plenty of normal recipes that can be profitable. Yoshida is a good guy for listening to hardcore and vet crafters this time, I honestly didn’t think he would do that. :)

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Ok but you didn't answer the question. You're looking for skill-based crafting, and I've seen you in other threads saying that just adding RNG isn't adding skill. I agree with that. But then what?

My problem here is that you seem to be arguing both sides at the same time:
- Adding RNG doesn't make crafting more skillful
- Adding RNG adds difficulty and skill to crafting

Which is it?

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Ok but you didn't answer the question. You're looking for skill-based crafting, and I've seen you in other threads saying that just adding RNG isn't adding skill. I agree with that. But then what?

My problem here is that you seem to be arguing both sides at the same time:
- Adding RNG doesn't make crafting more skillful
- Adding RNG adds difficulty and skill to crafting

Which is it?

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RNG is not skill.
RNG is, however, difficult, in its own way.

You don’t know if you’ll be lucky or not when competing in a contest. Why? Because there are other competitors better than you. That makes it difficult to win the contest.

You don’t know if you’ll be lucky or not when crafting endgame. Why? Because the procs are not guaranteed to happen. You could fail it. That makes it difficult.

The term “difficult” is really easy to understand. Not sure why there’s so many people trying to uncover some sort of “secret” to it. dif·fi·cult
/ˈdifəkəlt/
adjective
needing much effort or skill to accomplish, deal with, or understand.

That is the definition of the word difficult. Crafting needed much effort to accomplish, therefore it was difficult. To argue otherwise is nonsense, that is the definition of the word. Did it take skill? No. Did it take understanding? Only if you wanted to improve your HQ chances. But it was difficult because of the large amount of time/effort needed.

But now? Buy a few NQ materials for like 20,000 gil on the market, click a one button macro you found online and bam, 100% guaranteed you get a piece of end game crafting gear that can be used by all crafting classes. A few minutes of effort right now get you what would have taken dozens of hours to get back then.

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

RNG is not skill.
RNG is, however, difficult, in its own way.

You don’t know if you’ll be lucky or not when competing in a contest. Why? Because there are other competitors better than you. That makes it difficult to win the contest.

You don’t know if you’ll be lucky or not when crafting endgame. Why? Because the procs are not guaranteed to happen. You could fail it. That makes it difficult.

The term “difficult” is really easy to understand. Not sure why there’s so many people trying to uncover some sort of “secret” to it. dif·fi·cult
/ˈdifəkəlt/
adjective
needing much effort or skill to accomplish, deal with, or understand.

That is the definition of the word difficult. Crafting needed much effort to accomplish, therefore it was difficult. To argue otherwise is nonsense, that is the definition of the word. Did it take skill? No. Did it take understanding? Only if you wanted to improve your HQ chances. But it was difficult because of the large amount of time/effort needed.

But now? Buy a few NQ materials for like 20,000 gil on the market, click a one button macro you found online and bam, 100% guaranteed you get a piece of end game crafting gear that can be used by all crafting classes. A few minutes of effort right now get you what would have taken dozens of hours to get back then.

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Hmm, so I'm reading your definition here and it doesn't mention luck. I believe my concern was that RNG is luck and has nothing to do with skill or effort. Unless your definition of difficulty just means bashing your face into something over and over again until it happens to come out just right irrespective of anything you actually did. That's not difficulty, that's luck.

luck
/lək/
noun
success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

RNG is not skill.
RNG is, however, difficult, in its own way.

But now? Buy a few NQ materials for like 20,000 gil on the market, click a one button macro you found online and bam, 100% guaranteed you get a piece of end game crafting gear that can be used by all crafting classes. A few minutes of effort right now get you what would have taken dozens of hours to get back then.

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I think you forgot why everyone hates RnG though.


Crafter A crafts 20 hrs a week and after a month has nothing to show for it. - well and good, it's "difficult".


And then Crafter B logs in, crafts for 2 hrs a week and in a month, has 3 or 4 of the super rare item and you can't convince them it was ever difficult. It wasn't for them because RnG.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Hmm, so I'm reading your definition here and it doesn't mention luck. I believe my concern was that RNG is luck and has nothing to do with skill or effort. Unless your definition of difficulty just means bashing your face into something over and over again until it happens to come out just right irrespective of anything you actually did. That's not difficulty, that's luck.

luck
/lək/
noun
success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

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If you’re wanting something...and that something is gated by, I dunno, luck? That means it’s difficult because you have something in your way. Easiest way I can explain it to you.

I don't craft competitively, but I do try to maintain myself to assist friends and FC mates. But even I can see that crafting was getting a bit stale. The rotation I use hasn't changed since HW, I don't use macros, and I didn't do any quests in SB, so I have none of those rewards; which I know one reward is a trait being removed. Crafting did need a bit of an overhaul, is this the right way of doing it, who knows, but at least SE noticed and is trying. Besides, from what I understand, this'll still be the most detailed crafting system in an MMO so far.

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

If you’re wanting something...and that something is gated by, I dunno, luck? That means it’s difficult because you have something in your way. Easiest way I can explain it to you.

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So never mind the definition you've been bandying about, "difficult" just means whatever you want it to mean to prop up your position? Got it.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

So never mind the definition you've been bandying about, "difficult" just means whatever you want it to mean to prop up your position? Got it.

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Um, no. :confused: Please read the definition of difficult again.

Let’s just agree to disagree, these conversations are pointless when it comes to someone trying to argue that RNG isn’t technically difficult. I debated with someone over this for like, an hour before, and it didn’t go anywhere. I’m just happy it’s added to endgame crafting again, and even more happy that lazy and/ or underachieving players cannot just arbitrarily sit down and mass produce endgame recipes like it’s a piece of cake.

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

Um, no. :confused: Please read the definition of difficult again.

Let’s just agree to disagree, these conversations are pointless when it comes to someone trying to argue that RNG isn’t technically difficult. I debated with someone over this for like, an hour before, and it didn’t go anywhere. I’m just happy it’s added to endgame crafting again, and even more happy that lazy and/ or underachieving players cannot just arbitrarily sit down and mass produce endgame recipes like it’s a piece of cake.

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You keep saying "difficult" when you mean tedious.

If Macro A can 100% a craft one attempt, and get 80% the next solely by reliance on good procs at exactly the right time , that's not difficult, that's tedious. It just means you have to do gather slightly more materials.

Difficult would require a large HQ material investment to begin or an exceedingly long whistle combo, not "did I get the three good procs during this two button macro" or not.

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Originally Posted by Hanmerreborn

You keep saying "difficult" when you mean tedious.

If Macro A can 100% a craft one attempt, and get 80% the next solely by reliance on good procs at exactly the right time , that's not difficult, that's tedious. It just means you have to do gather slightly more materials.

Difficult would require a large HQ material investment to begin or an exceedingly long whistle combo, not "did I get the three good procs during this two button macro" or not.

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How is RNG tedious? Because you or I get angry that our crafts fail? RNG is annoyingly difficult, because nothing you do is guaranteed. As I said, this conversation is pointless, these never go anywhere. I just want hardcore or vet crafters getting what they want, and casual players getting what they want as well. And if this is how Yoshida wants to do it, I personally hope it forever stays this way. I’m not opposed to a skill based system though.

Also, it depends how difficult it is to obtain HQ mats. I assume based on what Yoshida said, procs will apply to all endgame recipes, including mats needed to make endgame gear. If obtaining HQ mats is child’s play, nothing will really change. (Luckily he stated he notices his broken it is currently, and 5.1 will basically nerf that).

TLDR: RNG is difficult in its own way, you can not convince me otherwise no matter what. And I can’t convince you either. I’m glad it’s this way :)

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

Um, no. :confused: Please read the definition of difficult again.

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Is italics "difficult" different than normal "difficult?" Because it doesn't seem like "random event you have no control over" really plays a role in difficulty as you've defined it... well at least as you defined it the first time. Your goalposts should settle down somewhere eventually.

Let me put it this way: if a raid boss randomly just wiped your party in say 12% of encounters and there was nothing you could do to prevent that... that's not difficulty... that's just bullshit.

Now hey, if you want endgame crafting to include random bullshit that screws you for no reason, that's fine... whatever turns you on. But let's not you and I mistake that for difficulty or effort. It's just bullshit.

A lot of what they removed is just useless fluff and or buttons that can be combined, and a lot of it is to smooth out early level crafting.

I really don't understand why the OP is complaining. Do you REALLY need 40+ buttons to feel that DoH classes are interesting when each button has 2-3 other buttons that do almost the exact same thing? Is that really necessary?

Do you really think that it should be necessary to level ALL the DoH classes just to get the sprinkling of cross-role actions to make crafting somewhat bearable, like the *REQUIREMENT* to have Weaver to get Careful Synthesis up until you finally get the III version in the 60s? I know I remembered hating having to stop and level CUL to get Hasty Touch, that was annoying as frick. I didn't have any interest in CUL whatsoever at the time. yadda yadda.

Most of this stuff was "Let's make lower level stuff not so annoying, and let's remove a lot of the duplicate actions".

I doubt the final endgame impact is going to be that high. As was already said, this isn't going to change anything because people already used macros. This is just reducing a lot of useless clutter.

I know, you look at that and you go *GASP!* 40 actions REMOVED!?" ... but.... most of them were just duplicates of other buttons.

EDIT: The one thing Yoshi-P didn't do, I wished he would have: Make it so that any craft can repair any gear. No, I don't want to have to level ALL the crafts except CUL just to make my own repairs.

I would say this. Crafting was best in ARR. Book 1 was easy, book 2 on my server was rough. There were only 4 players that posted crafts for close to a month. We all made real gil for our work but that book was very rng based. In HW 3.0 to the end of 3.1 crafting was horrid. Nothing to craft and the favors were trash, what did Yoshi say? He listened to the community. Raid in HW was too hard, crafting was gated and boring not to mention all the free loot given away and gathering became harder. What happened? Players left the game in large numbers. So be careful in saying Yoshi listens to the community. You might rage quit. Having said that crafting was better in SB, though it got to be facroll easy. There was nothing hard to get the books that could take days or weeks to do in ARR. Crafting again is easy in ShB. First, the books should be like the old ARR book two that was difficult and the crafting was hard. This proc based thing sounds like a bad idea in the pre notes. Maybe it works, maybe it sucks. We will find out soon. I do remember making i110 battle gear in ARR, it was rare on my server and it was fun to see my name on the gear others wore.

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Originally Posted by Millen1

I would say this. Crafting was best in ARR. Book 1 was easy, book 2 on my server was rough. There were only 4 players that posted crafts for close to a month. We all made real gil for our work but that book was very rng based. In HW 3.0 to the end of 3.1 crafting was horrid. Nothing to craft and the favors were trash, what did Yoshi say? He listened to the community. Raid in HW was too hard, crafting was gated and boring not to mention all the free loot given away and gathering became harder. What happened? Players left the game in large numbers. So be careful in saying Yoshi listens to the community. You might rage quit. Having said that crafting was better in SB, though it got to be facroll easy. There was nothing hard to get the books that could take days or weeks to do in ARR. Crafting again is easy in ShB. First, the books should be like the old ARR book two that was difficult and the crafting was hard. This proc based thing sounds like a bad idea in the pre notes. Maybe it works, maybe it sucks. We will find out soon. I do remember making i110 battle gear in ARR, it was rare on my server and it was fun to see my name on the gear others wore.

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I...couldn’t have said it any better myself, wow lol.

I was never around to do the high end crafting in ARR, but the amount of effort involved just in getting the ability to do high end crafts seemed like it offered a sense of progression that is currently lacking from the system.

If people want to be able to easily max crafters for the sake of repairing gear/melding materia, that's fine, but I do feel like there should be more of an entry barrier to the endgame crafts and not necessarily through ridiculous stat requirements.