I feel like the community has been pooping all over Warrior as of late but I for one, still love the job. While PLDs are raking up the highest numbers in parse and they bring the most raid utility, it's still hard for me to play my PLD over WAR because, for me, Warrior is more enjoyable to play. I leveled PLD and War evenly, but when I'm playing WAR the job just flows better for me. However, because I play both, I do see some shortcomings when playing Warrior. Below are my suggestion for SE to make in 5.1 that would make WAR even more enjoyable to play.
Change Overpower animation to a circular AoE vs the Cone No explanation necessary. It's long overdue.
Remove the cost of onslaught and increase the potency to 200: Outside Inner release, onslaught is a DPS loss, especially when you factor the buff of Upheaval, no stance dancing to do Fell Cleaves, and the addition of Nascent Chaos. It feels like SE forgot to buff it since Warrior already had a gap closer in Storm's blood.
Make Nascent Flash and Raw Intuition CDs separate
Separate Storm's Eye 10% Damage up effect into an oGCD button. 30 secs duration, 10sec recast. It would effectively be the same bonus except it wouldn't be gated behind a combo; its a bit cumbersome trying to apply it in AoE situations. We would still be able to keep the 100% uptime if we remember to push the button on time.
Keep the Storm's Eye Combo but switch the damage up effect with the "Fracture" effect OG Warrior's will remember this skill. It was a DOT; I would like it if it made a comeback via Storm's Eye. 50 Potency 30-sec duration maybe?
Give Choatic Cyclone an Aoe Dot Effect 40 potency, 24 Sec Duration.
I don't think Warrior needs more Party utility because if they gave them more then they would be stepping in on Paladin territory; this would equate to the endless cycle of buffing other jobs to make them equal.
The recommended changes would more solidify Warrior as the AoE Tank. Homogenizing blows ( go ask healers). If it were up to me, with 4 tanks in the game, to balance them, each tank would have a certain niche.
PLD Best Mitigation Tank
WAR Best AoE Tank
DRK Best Single Target Tank
GB - Best Support Tank
Each tank should be good at the fundamentals but certain classes should excel in certain areas: Right now PLD has Best DPS/ Best Support/ Best Mitigation. 6sec Damage reduction every 30secs or so via Shelltron. Semi Spammable 1200 Potency Heal you can use on others (1800 potency if you use Req) . I'm an immortal button. 2 Raid Wide mitigation + 1 Single party member mitigation.
Warrior QoL wish list I'd like to see in 5.1 ~ 5.5
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07-23-2019, 09:00 AMOmegaSinXWarrior QoL wish list I'd like to see in 5.1 ~ 5.5
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07-23-2019, 09:03 AMKabooa
You said 'QoL' when what you meant was 'Damage buff'.
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07-23-2019, 09:13 AMOmegaSinXA bit of both. Overpower / Storm Eye effect / Nascent Flash+ Raw Intuition are QoL. Onslaught would bring WARs Gap Closer in line with the other tanks without a cost. New Eye and Chaotic Cyclone would be buffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabooa
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07-23-2019, 10:01 AMArgyle_Darkheart
Decoupling Nascent Flash and Raw Intuition recasts isn't a quality of life change, it's a massive defensive buff.
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07-23-2019, 10:56 AMOmegaSinXIs it really? Old Inner Beast was both the heal + Damage reduction +Damage every 20~30 secs; and IB was spamable during Inner Release in 4.0 soo...Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart
You can't spam these now. With this change, it would be the equivalent of bringing back IB damage reduction but as a oGCD and without the damage; and it would bring back Steel Cyclone-ish Healing but now we would have the option to heal with other attacks (it would still be most effective with Steel/Choatic Cyclone). -
07-23-2019, 11:23 AMIzsha
These are all completely over the top.
Everyone keeps forgetting that the primary purpose of nascent is to help SOMEONE ELSE. You know, the damage mitigation? its intervention, or casting tbn/heart of stone on your buddy while raw is the equivalent of shelltron/tbn/hos on yourself. Just having both is the same as every time you cast tbn on yourself you can cast another for free on a party member. Thatsa MASSIVE buff.
No. No. No. Tanks are finally in the same ball oark defensively. We dont need mega blood bath every 25 seconds because reasons while also giving heals and mitigation to a partner while also having raw 24/7. The fact nascent does anything for the caster is already surprising compared to the other tanks equivalents.
Onslaught. Its fine. You want to turn it into a 200 potency ogcd woth a 10 second recast. Jesus no. If war needs damage just buff its potencies. We do not need to turn a gap closer into stormbloods dark arts spamming it all day for no reason. No.
So you want to just steal dark knights dark side. Apy with ogcd. Get damage buff. Amidst the cries of homogenization. Nope. 3gcds in a single target fight for ramp has always been fine. You cant blow your load before trick and other jobs synching up anyway. If your worried about dungeons id reccomend using your kit to maintain eye and stop letting it fall off between pulls. You can fix eye maintenace by playing properly.
Goring blade 2.0. It would literally do nothing for war. We already maintain damage every 30 seconds with eye. Your just swapping all damage buff for a dot (and then cloning darkside for war). Your change changes literally nothing about how war plays. Eye every 30 sec. This is completely unnecessary. If you want war to do more damage there are far less convoluted wats to do it. Like increasing potencies instead of all this surface level ability swaps thay dont change gameplay in the slightest.
Chaotic cyclone circle of scorn? Why. What does this add? Again if you just want to shove more damage i to wars kit there are simpler ways to do it. War has never been focused on dots. It was the 1st to loose theirs and other jobs made better use of fracture than war did when it was here. Its not in wars MO to stack dots. They smash things with unparralelled powerful strikes. All these extra proposed dots dont even fit wars identity. Its just an excuse for damage.
Thread after thread of onslaught and nascent 'changes' to some of the most reasonably balanced skill currently on tanks. Eye suddenly is a problem for the 1st time in 5 years. Can we stop making up problems that arent even there? If everyone is SOO unhappy with wars damage, you dont need to come up with subtle ways to fix it. You can just increase potencies instead of ruining perfectly good skills as DPS spam actions. -
07-23-2019, 11:46 AMHammerhorn
Don’t worry PLD will get nerfed just like what happened in Storm Blood you Warriors will be top dps soon.
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07-23-2019, 11:56 AMMarxam
I think all tanks, excluding PLD could use some potency adjustments for sure. However some of those "QoL" is a bit op. Personally I would love to see Raw Intuition and Nascent Flash reduced to 20 seconds and Nascent Flash can be targeted on yourself. I think the trade-off is good, between 20% straight mitigation vs. 10% with a bit of heals. This would effectively give us back our Inner Beast from SB. I would also like to see Onslaught reduced to 10 gauge to be used as a gauge dump to fit SP much cleaner into the rotation.
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07-23-2019, 12:11 PMArgyle_DarkheartYes, absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaSinX
No offense, but I can't be bothered to counter your post in detail. Suffice it to say that 4.X Defiance WAR was a defensive powerhouse and you want to replicate that without any of the relevant opportunity cost. -
07-23-2019, 12:45 PMbilboa
Its pretty simple IMO - warrior self heals suck pre level 76 which makes old content synced a pain...... after level 76 you're OK
Sure minor tweaks here and there would be nice (first to mind would be having Holmgang be HP drop no more then 50% or having that extra 25% hp in defiance with some dps cost) but its ok. Nascent targeting is also stupid since you lose 2 seconds out of 6 in action (i.e. the way it is now it forces you to create Macros) plus you cant use on yourself.
Also Shake it off initially was able to remove status effects and I would bring that back given the 90sec cooldown.
Finally - pre 76 it would be nice to have bloodbath-like skill from say that converts to Nascent Flash at 76. Now you only have Storm's path and you will spam over and over it in lower content - making the role more boring to play. -
07-23-2019, 01:11 PMBarretOblivion
"Lets make WAR the AoE tank?"
-cough-
What?
In a raid setting no one gives a -blam- about AoE. Thats such a useless strength. Having a tank that has good sustain is a pretty good idea, but right now that trait is owned by Paladin simply because of clemency. Nascent flash is both too short nor is it scaled enough from your skills to be looked at being a good sustain option.
That being said.. WAR is the beserker tank. It should be the risky tank that brings the pain right? So why is it the weakest tank of all? (Yeah even DRK does more damage right now that WAR).
I would also like to see WAR not be the "noob tank" as it seems to have fallen from the tank with the most risk, to the most straight forward out of all the tanks. Its not risky, its braindead. -
07-23-2019, 05:31 PMRadicalPesto
these changes are just "turn warrior into paladin". and then people complain about "homogenisation"...
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07-23-2019, 06:14 PMReynhartYes, Inner Beast was. One skill, on one target, locked behind Defiance, at a gauge cost, that no WAR wanted to waste Inner Release on to maintain their DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaSinX
If you separate Raw Intuition and Nascent Flash, you'll be able to gain massive chunks of HP from Fell Cleave and Inner Chaos or even more with your AoE combos, or even Decimate and Chaotic Cyclone, without losing any DPS, while mitigating damage by 20% "free".
From my PoV, it's not an issue if WAR has the weakest average DPS of all of the tanks...providing he can do massive spikes of damage. This way, having a WAR would be a strategic choice if you intend to skip specific phases, or burn an add extremely fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by BarretOblivion
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07-23-2019, 07:26 PMNedkelNo its not, its dps loss when used outside IR, and its lame to have 10 sec oGCD which used is hurting warrior dps. You shouldnt have to make a decision like "should i lose a dps to dash few meters into the enemy", since you are a TANK enemies are already close to you and dashing across dungeon leaving your team away from you is going to hurt your team, there is no point to have this "cost" remain on dash skill that is supposed to be spammable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Izsha
Warrior doesnt have a lot of offensive stuff to play with, leaving it that way is super lame, you basically have GCD skills and ONE literal offensive oGCD to "weave" in. Warrior is least played tank for some reason, should i say anything more? Warior is not "fine", its boring SB literation we had already for 2 years period, that went into ShB with little to no changes to his gameplay.
This i want on War.Quote:
Separate Storm's Eye 10% Damage up effect into an oGCD button. 30 secs duration, 10sec recast. It would effectively be the same bonus except it wouldn't be gated behind a combo; its a bit cumbersome trying to apply it in AoE situations. We would still be able to keep the 100% uptime if we remember to push the button on time.
A dot to manage and offensive oGCD that will give us storms eye buff would be cool to use. This oGCD should cost gauge (like 20) be an AOE ability with 30 sec cooldown, applying 30 sec storms eye. I wish we have at least one more skill to use in IR windows and outside of it.
Also onslaught dont need to be buffed too much, it would be worth to use it outside of IR window if it was costing 10 gauge. Make it 10 gauge cost it will make warrior a little nicer to play and have more common sense to it. -
07-23-2019, 07:42 PMChrono_RisingQuote:
Originally Posted by BarretOblivion
What is this based on? Except for at the highest levels of play warrior leads dark knight in just about every fight? What is this statement based on? I see number of people saying this without supporting it with any sort of evidence.
Warrior is no longer the risky tank by any means. It has one of, if not the best, the mitigation tool kits right now. Its not really a beserker anymore, so I don't see what the justification is for being top dps among tanks is.Quote:
Originally Posted by BarretOblivion
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07-23-2019, 09:55 PMIvelliorIf WAR isn't the best tank then it wont be FFXIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhorn
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07-23-2019, 11:22 PMwhiskeybravoWarrior is missing an equivalent to CoS/Flood/Bow Shock. Think we are getting out dps'd now, wait until there's a fight where the other tanks can get that free aoe pad that we can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Izsha
I don't think a dot on Chaotic Cyclone solves that problem, but I do wish we had another aoe oGCD to compete with those abilities. Whether it's a dot or front loaded damage doesn't really matter, it's a gap in warrior's arsenal. -
07-24-2019, 12:36 AMIzshaWars aoe, like its single target, is bursty. If there is a fight with lits of adds, it will crish the parses because most large groups of adds dont last more than 15-20 seconds which is right around the sweet spit for IR+a few cyclones.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
Wars sustained aoe is meh but that is relevant for.....dungeons. 4 man overgeared to hell dungeons.
War is not at any risk of being outdone on phantom train type add phases that get deleted in under 20 seconds.
There is no raid since coil 4 that had the kind of sustained aoe damage requirements that would put war at any notabke disadvantage.
Again, like the other thread if war aoe is just so abysmal that it doesnt justify the ramp up or falls woefully behind other tanks, theres a simple solution to that that doesnt screw up the single target scenario. Buff the aoe combo. -
07-24-2019, 01:11 AMwhiskeybravoI'm talking about situations like.. A4S leg padding.. O7S add spawns.. Suzaku adds.. Shinryu heart spawn.. Or more recently big add phase on Titania. Not really talking about Warrior's aoe kit as a whole. It's not a gain to CC or decimate on 2 adds for Warrior (not that it should be), the difference is that those other moves are a free gain if 2 targets are present, and they're already part of those tanks single target rotation. Whether or not Warrior "needs" an equivalent we can debate, but the fact remains that it's bound to widen to the gap further on any fights with that kind of design.Quote:
Originally Posted by Izsha
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07-24-2019, 02:29 AMDonjo
Overpower: Well, um. I guess it wouldn't hurt to change it to a circle, but is it really necessary? Hitting everything in a group isn't a problem in most situations anyway.
Onslaught: At present, Onslaught is the only gap closer that is best used as a gap closer. When I'm running Warrior it's always available when I need to close a gap, and I lose nothing by holding on to it until those moments. It's genuinely nice. The 2 charge closers get close to this, but it's not quite the same.
Nascent Flash + Raw Intuition: The intent behind this cooldown share is that you use Raw Intuition to protect yourself or Nascent Flash to protect someone else. People using Flash on someone who is in no danger just to get those self heals is a neat example of emergent gameplay, but it is almost certainly not what people were expected to do with it. As Argyle stated, this would be a large defensive buff to Warrior that is quite unnecessary.
Storm's Eye: Oh, you mean the buff that's been applied by a combo for years with no issues yet somehow became a problem recently? And you want it to just be a new button that we have to remember to press every 28 seconds? Part of the benefit of combo effects is that they give visible rewards for playing your job correctly. Removing them not only removes that benefit but interferes with job flow.
Fracture: Fracture was never good. It, like your attempt at "fixing" Storm's Eye, was just a button to remember to press every 28 seconds. Yawn. Hell, in Heavensward there were situations in which ignoring its existence was a DPS gain! These days, the job identity of Warrior is exemplified in its burst... and DOTs are not very bursty.
Chaotic Cyclone: There's little need to make a minimum 700 potency AOE attack even stronger. Yes, Confiteor does deal more damage, but Chaotic Cyclone can be used more often. -
07-24-2019, 03:03 AMConna
Pretty sure atm gunbreaker has the highest dps, and I think you're forgetting pld has the least defensives.
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07-24-2019, 04:58 AMNyneSwordz
I dont think anyone who is asking onslaught to be off beast guage is also expecting it to be on a 10 sec cooldown.
Also, for those that say storms eye buff is not clunky because wars always had to ramp up for buff, please remember that pre ShB it was more efficient to overpower for aggro, then spam single target combo to generate rage until it was possible to decimate.
With the advent of mythril tempest and it granting rage, IT IS NO LONGER EFFICIENT TO SPAM SINGLE TARGET COMBO.
So where we used to spam single target combo, we now spam aoe combo. The CLUNKINESS has to do with the fact that the COMBO WE ARE SPAMMING DOES NOT GRANT THE DPS BUFF.
It's nice that mythril tempest extends eye buff, but lets be honest, it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep eye buff up at all times in a dungeon. So you will have to single target combo then switch to aoe combo mutiply times in a dungeon.
The BEST solution is to have mythril tempest GRANT eye buff - NOT FOR THE FULL 30 SECONDS. But 10 seconds stackable up to 30 is perfectly fine as it solves the problem WITHOUT competing with stormeye combo as a method of applying the buff. -
07-24-2019, 05:05 AMNyneSwordz
Also, consider that almost, if not all pulls in dungeons are aoe spam fests.
So a warrior would have to grab aggro with overpower, then mythril temepest, THEN EYE COMBO, and THEN SWITCH back to overpower and mythril tempest spam.
It is INCREDIBLY CLUNKY and I don't know why people don't see it and say that it is anything but a misstep to not have mythril tempest just apply eye buff.
Again, compare this with pre ShB where the warrior would hit overpower a few times then SINGLE TARGET COMBO SPAM for rage and decimate.
So saying that eye is not clunky because wars always had to single target combo to apply dps buff IS FALSE because it doesnt take into account the change to gameplay resulting from the introduction of mythril temepest AND THE ABILITY to GENERATE RAGE FROM AN AOE. -
07-24-2019, 05:08 AMwhiskeybravoBut the 10 second recast is what helps makes it the superior gap closer. Gap closer and spam on CD dps ability shouldn't be the same thing, that's just bad design. Onslaught may need some adjustment but it's not the key "fix" to focus on.Quote:
Originally Posted by NyneSwordz
And, nobody should have been doing singe target rotation for aoe pulls, but there has in fact always been a threshold for when it is and when it's not worth it to spend 3 GCDs to put up eye. Right now it's ~6 mobs taking more than 35 seconds to kill (which means it'd be worth it to spend 3 gcds putting up eye). If you have decent DPS in the group then it's not worth it most of the time.
But since my original post on this specific topic I've been trying to put up Eye as I go, per Izsha's suggestion. And it's mostly possible, not always, but it certainly can be done on most pulls without much additional effort. And for the one's that you can't, again it's not worth it most of the time because mobs don't live long enough to gain the lost potency back.
The main reason I advocate for that change is because Warrior's damage is balanced around having an "always on" damage buff. Our AoE combo is close to the weakest, even with Eye, so it'd be nice to be able to take advantage of that buff responsible for this particular design without it being a pain in the arse to activate. The other tanks just press a button and get damage, the least we could have is Mythril Tempest granting 12-15 seconds of Eye. -
07-24-2019, 05:17 AMBarretOblivionGo look at fflogs right now, you won't see a single WAR in any of the top clears at all. Just because the "average" of DRK is lower than WAR doesn't mean its potential damage isn't higher than WAR. Its been calculated, WAR is now the lowest DPS Tank especially since it doesn't benefit from two major party wide buffs that are almost core in a raid setting. Battle Litany doesn't affect them that much because you are IRing during that window thus you get a tiny amount of damage increase compared to all other tanks. Battle voice doesn't affect WAR much since we don't invest into DH so it doesn't help it that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising
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07-24-2019, 05:47 AMIzshaThats a fair point.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
The '2 target' scenarios do nothing for war while others get a little fluff. Most jobs have something they can do in 2 targets via dots or aoe attacks baked into their ST rotation, or something like flood.
Although not quite as big a bump as ithers, but i seem to recall some math a while back showing that for 2 targets you do more damage using tempest combo but using gauge on FC/IC. But i dont remember how much of a gain it actually was. If its significant, we might already have a viable option to boost damage on 2 targets. Id need to check the numbers on that though. -
07-24-2019, 06:31 AMwhiskeybravoQuick estimate, it's about 40 potency/GCD more. Which is surprising I suppose, but I don't know if that's really any better. I just realized Holy Circle is also a gain on 2 targets (unlike Decimate/CC), but man you also have that sweet Confiteor if add spawn happens to line up with Req window. PLD has a stronger ST rotation so it doesn't look like the same thing would be a gain for them, at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Izsha
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07-25-2019, 02:38 AMNovak_04How to make every other tank obsolete in six easy steps...Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaSinX
Where to begin....
The Overpower change you suggested actually wouldn't be terrible... I just hope you're not one of the people QQing about homogenization.
Regarding Onslaught.... while you're at it, make sure you add to reduce the range to 15 seconds and its cooldown to 30 seconds.
Nascent Flash and Raw Intuition? L (and I can't stress this next part enough) O L. Absolutely not. You're literally wanting Warrior to have: Nascent Flash, Raw Intuition, Vengeance, Rampart, Thrill of Battle, AND Holmgang as defensives? You make the argument about Inner Beast and it makes me wonder if you even played Warrior when Inner Beast was a thing... it took gauge. You want these abilities to take gauge too? K!
Storm's Eye buff... you want access to your damage-up on an oGCD.... on a 10 sec CD.... Super balanced. SUPER BALANCED.
Additionally, you want to give SE's combo a DoT....
You are literally wanting to make every other tank irrelevant.
"If it were up to me..." From the looks of it, if it were up to you, we'd be doing raids with 8/8 tanks (probably Warriors). -
07-25-2019, 03:23 AMNyneSwordzCalm down geezus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak_04
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07-25-2019, 03:29 AMInuk9
It is too much to ask for people at least get lv 80 before asking for buffs? Yeah WAR need minor buffs but it is far from those in this thread. Also leave Onslaught alone, I wan Onslaugh to be a beast spender so I can control my beast gauge and not overcap and lose DPS, it is so hard to understand simple concepts of this job?
People "Tanks are homogenized"
Also People "Make Onslaught the same as other gap closers" -
07-25-2019, 03:35 AMNyneSwordzIt's not always a dps gain to use onslaught to prevent overcap as opposed to delaying a combo gcd to fellcleave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inuk9
And no, it is not easy to understand the concepts of this job precisely because of tedious nonsense like guage manipulation and why they should adjust onslaught so that it is ALWAYS okay to just delay a gcd to dump rage into fc, especially because of job mechanics/traits like reduction of infuriate cooldown and infuriate empowering fc to inner chaos. -
07-25-2019, 03:41 AMInuk9If you show me your logs proving that I will be happy to agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by NyneSwordz
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07-25-2019, 04:49 AMwhiskeybravoThe issue isn't really overcapping as such, it's more about optimization in your particular group. Spending gauge is easy, but if you have party buffs to be concerned about then you have to manage your gauge and combo flow accordingly to take advantage of them. It's not that using Onslaught once after IR is a DPS gain, it's that using it allows you to perform an extra Path instead of re-writing Eye early, or not having Eye fall off because you didn't account for the extra GCD using Fell Cleave consumed, etc. It allows you to change the flow of your combo so you can be capped at 100 with Path prepped for 4 cleaves + Upheaval in a trick attack window. At the end of the day it's about maximizing every GCD. You don't have to if you don't want to. There's nothing preventing you from using FC to burn gauge instead of babysitting it, but the option is there for people who do want to try and squeeze everything they can out of each GCD.Quote:
Originally Posted by NyneSwordz