Housing Suggestions/Fixes Timers/Supply

To Preface, this thread is not for toxicity over the systems currently in place, your reading this suggests it's very likely that you have already been burned by the timers and general lack of housing on high pop servers.

Regarding the timers I understand there implementation that they are to discourage flipping and ill practices. I don't understand the need for the timer to be invisible however, to me this seems an oversight and likely the source of most frustration as it fosters uncertainty, I would propose making the timer a solid 10hrs from demolition/resignation. whilst simple I feel this deters flipping as anyone viewing will be able to attend the 10th hour and attempt to purchase, it deters botting as there is now a predefined time where GM's know botting is a significant possibility and most importantly it saves people gate keeping placards for hours on end.

The bigger issue and the reason the aforementioned is required is supply.
Currently on high/medium pop servers housing is short of demand this has been the case since implementation. Whilst many have proposed instancing as a fix I dislike this suggestion not unlike Square Enix as it is counter to there vision, they want housing wards to be bustling locales of activity and interaction or social hubs. I would suggest a type of instancing but its better described as phasing, if FF-XIV's engine allowed it, phasing would eliminate the need for multiple wards entirely, all housing could be instanced with each plot individually phased in. for example you enter The Mists and your house is located on plot 12 whenever you enter the Ward your house will always Inhabit plot 12, and the rest of the Ward will populate with randomly allocated housing.

To add to the above a few other small suggestions:

• Friends-list/FC Housing Allocation - The Ward will populate with FC and Friends List members with exemptions made for Plot conflicts.
  Personal Allocation, you may interact with the placards to populate the ward manually.

I envision this working as follows, Each plot is individually phased, once you pass the wall/gate you are phased into that plot along with anyone else currently within the walls. Whilst outside the walls you are phased into the Ward itself and here everyone currently within that ward is present this would massively increase the presence in housing wards changing them from ghost wards to something more akin capitals and market boards. I would hope that instancing in this fashion would allow for more housing in general. one of the issues I see with this would be plot preference as if you allow anyone to buy any plot then the less conveniently located plots or "ugly" plots will never be inhabited.

All of the above of course is my personal recommendation and I'm sure is flawed in ways beyond my thinking. I'm open to discussion and suggestion on improvements or entirely better ways of managing housing going forward.

It doesn't discourage anything but first time buyers to continue playing this game. You can still sell FCs just like you could 5 years ago and now players trade personal house relocations. Nothing's changed other than frustrating the players who begged for unneeded changes to the housing free market.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ature-Requests

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

It doesn't discourage anything but first time buyers to continue playing this game. You can still sell FCs just like you could 5 years ago and now players trade personal house relocations. Nothing's changed other than frustrating the players who begged for unneeded changes to the housing free market.

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You own half a ward. And you parade that fact around on all of these threads....ill say it again. You are part of the problem (at least on Gilga). Stop pretending like you care.

And to the op, I have yet to see a neighborhood that is bustling with people. Theyre all ghostowns. Their idea failed and its sad really

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

You own half a ward. And you parade that fact around on all of these threads....ill say it again. You are part of the problem (at least on Gilga). Stop pretending like you care.

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Thought you would have noticed by now, but you really sound upset. What have you done for this server anyway?

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Originally Posted by SquashingFrogs

all housing could be instanced with each plot individually phased in. for example you enter The Mists and your house is located on plot 12 whenever you enter the Ward your house will always Inhabit plot 12, and the rest of the Ward will populate with randomly allocated housing.

I envision this working as follows, Each plot is individually phased, once you pass the wall/gate you are phased into that plot along with anyone else currently within the walls. Whilst outside the walls you are phased into the Ward itself and here everyone currently within that ward is present this would massively increase the presence in housing wards changing them from ghost wards to something more akin capitals and market boards. I would hope that instancing in this fashion would allow for more housing in general. one of the issues I see with this would be plot preference as if you allow anyone to buy any plot then the less conveniently located plots or "ugly" plots will never be inhabited.

All of the above of course is my personal recommendation and I'm sure is flawed in ways beyond my thinking. I'm open to discussion and suggestion on improvements or entirely better ways of managing housing going forward.

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While this would solve the shortage issue, I feel like this solution has some problems.

How does the phasing work with gardens? Right now you can hop into a garden from the roads, but it seems that with your suggestions that players might disappear when they do so because they may be entering a plot that isn't displayed for you. Or would the gardens also be instanced? This would turn the housing plots into glorified apartments. A lot of people like the openness of the wards. Instancing the gardens would take that away. There would be no more jumping onto your roof from a nearby wall or stairway. Believe it or not this is something people really enjoy. I have seen in the ability to jump onto your roof be a selling point on house flipping forums.

As you mentioned already this would result in some plots being completely overlooked due to players being able to choose the same plots as many times as needed. So while the housing districts would become busier, some plots are going to have little to no activity at all. There are many plots that spring to mind that I know no one would take if they had their choice of literally anything. So then this would result in patches of dead zones in wards.

Not everyone wants the housing districts to be as busy as a city hub. Even though it's a game, people can feel uneasy in crowded places. I know some who found it hard to socialise with their fc in major cities and felt far more comfortable doing it after their fc got a house. Sometimes people want a nice chill place where they can do stuff in peace, without having to be cooped up inside a place like the inn.

Personally I'm very introverted. I find it tiresome to hang around very highly populated areas for long periods. The emote spam, busy chat, cacophony of sound effects and random blu suicides end up annoying me after a while. I understand that some people love this atmosphere, but many of us do not and housing in its current state (and what I mean by this is, each plot being unique and not one of many instances like you suggest) gives us quiet yet open areas that are far more relaxed. I'd likely end up visiting my house much less if we got your suggestion and my plot became a very busy area as a result.

I would much prefer if we got something I like to call micro-wards. Basically a player or fc can buy an instance with a huge plot of land, and can build as many houses as it can fit. This means players could create neighbourhoods together, or use the instance only for themselves if they wish. It would be as crowded or quiet as they wish. I envision you would hop between these micro wards similarly to how you do with apartments now. And because these wards would obviously be smaller than the ones we have now, the interior of the houses would not need to be separate from the exterior. It would also open the possibility of having a large choice of terrain types for the micro wards, instead of just the basic flat pieces of land we get for our houses right now.

Sadly...this is but a dream. I doubt SE will do something like this. They seem determined to keep a broken system.

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

What have you done for this server anyway?

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I like how you're trying to make the criticism about them now. I guess you didn't fancy getting your hoarding highlighted.

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

It doesn't discourage anything but first time buyers to continue playing this game. You can still sell FCs just like you could 5 years ago and now players trade personal house relocations. Nothing's changed other than frustrating the players who begged for unneeded changes to the housing free market.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

You own half a ward. And you parade that fact around on all of these threads....ill say it again. You are part of the problem (at least on Gilga). Stop pretending like you care.

And to the op, I have yet to see a neighborhood that is bustling with people. Theyre all ghostowns. Their idea failed and its sad really

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I don't understand why you ignored the point that they were making. The point stands that people on this very OF complained about the old way and got a system change and are now complaining about the monster they created. The current system ONLY hurts first time buyers as nothing has changed for the people selling plots. If you look at the housing market subreddit, it's more active than ever, with large FCs going for 150-250 mil.

It's absolutely ridiculous that just because this person owns multiple houses, their points are disregarded when they literally speak the exact state of the game everytime.

But I guess haters are gonna hate right?

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Originally Posted by LuciferNacht

But I guess haters are gonna hate right?

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No. Being apart of the problem is what makes their opinions, generally, instantly disregarded.

It's literally like owning a massive plot of land in a small town, then fanning yourself from your lofty porch and commenting on how many homeless there are in said town. You didn't break the law, you bought aaaall those 20 acres of land in an area just barely touching 100 acres. But you are still not budging and outright antagonizing others about for commenting on it.

Timer does seem to help with non-FC selling though, so it did do something. It's just also frustrating of course but that is born out of the limited supply more than anything. Any solution to the problem is going to be a "problem" since the real issue is supply.

They could improve the timer though by making it a lottery that even people who relocate have to take part in (put your gil down, lottery lasts a few hours and a winner is picked the rest get their gil back). Perhaps you can make a list of houses you want (location/plot#) and put your gil down (once, not for each) and it will put you in the lottery for all the locations (of course you can only keep one if you won many). If you won it would give you a big prompt in-game and mog mail for a few days to confirm and send the gil away or it'll go back into the lottery system if you don't respond (so you actually know you won one and not have it auto demolish lol).

Also there are so few houses just for giggles they could put a GM on housing duty that checks reddit for what houses are on sale and puts a notice in the system when they sell to see if anyone bought a house that way (traded the gil amount and made any mention in game enough to prove) and then remove it from them, just for the giggles :P.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I like how you're trying to make the criticism about them now. I guess you didn't fancy getting your hoarding highlighted.

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Do I have to pull the ignorant claims you have made about housing before? Do I have to remind others that you couldn't handle facts and had to resort to blocking me?

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Originally Posted by LuciferNacht

I don't understand why you ignored the point that they were making. The point stands that people on this very OF complained about the old way and got a system change and are now complaining about the monster they created. The current system ONLY hurts first time buyers as nothing has changed for the people selling plots. If you look at the housing market subreddit, it's more active than ever, with large FCs going for 150-250 mil.

It's absolutely ridiculous that just because this person owns multiple houses, their points are disregarded when they literally speak the exact state of the game everytime.

But I guess haters are gonna hate right?

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Thank god some people get it...

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Originally Posted by Gula

No. Being apart of the problem is what makes their opinions, generally, instantly disregarded.

It's literally like owning a massive plot of land in a small town, then fanning yourself from your lofty porch and commenting on how many homeless there are in said town. You didn't break the law, you bought aaaall those 20 acres of land in an area just barely touching 100 acres. But you are still not budging and outright antagonizing others about for commenting on it.

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HAHAHAHA

If you think I'm part of the problem, then what are players using automation to get a plot? The saviors of this game?

On a serious note, I'm obviously the person that is preventing everyone on my server, and every other server, from acquiring a house. But hey, let's not talk about how 45 days is ridiculously long to free up a plot or how the previous system worked flawlessly in comparison to what we have now. Players feel entitled because SE has lowered housing prices so low that completing ARR essentially gives you enough money to buy a small house. Bring back the original prices and you can bet that overnight, your housing shortage is gone.

Edit: Your comparison is so flawed. I own 26 houses on Gilgamesh. That's 0.6% of the server.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Timer does seem to help with non-FC selling though, so it did do something. It's just also frustrating of course but that is born out of the limited supply more than anything. Any solution to the problem is going to be a "problem" since the real issue is supply.

They could improve the timer though by making it a lottery that even people who relocate have to take part in (put your gil down, lottery lasts a few hours and a winner is picked the rest get their gil back).

Also there are so few houses just for giggles they could put a GM on housing duty that checks reddit for what houses are on sale and puts a notice in the system when they sell to see if anyone bought a house it (traded the gil amount and made any mention in game enough to prove) and then remove it from them, just for the giggles :P.

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No players still end up paying others to get a better plot instead of their first plot. Literally nothing has changed...

The problem doesn't lie with the supply considering we went from less than 1000 houses to nearly 4500. The problem(s) lies in the fact that Square Enix has reduced and consolidated prices while letting players have their own personal houses. Gilgamesh had over a thousand empty plots by the time the moratorium of early 4.1 was over so I can't think of how empty small pop servers looked like even after those two weeks had passed.

By the way, sorry to burst your bubble, but GMs do not care about 1 on 1 transactions unless someone gets scammed. If that does happen, you better hope to have that mutual agreement somewhere in the chat or they won't help you at all.

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

No players still end up paying others to get a better plot instead of their first plot. Literally nothing has changed...

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Not sure I see what you're seeing. The change is players don't have to sit at the sign anymore, if a plot opens up they are put in the same priority as relocation players (and it's random).

If a player pays another player for a plot they're paying for the chance that they win the lottery, I'm sure they'll have fun with that lol. Issues still with FC selling but to fix that I think is going to be a bit more difficult without some other major changes (also FC if wanting to relocate would have to follow the lottery system too).

Lottery system will turn itself off for specific instances if a threshold crossed in supply of that specific type of house (like if you want a goblet house and there are 30 open smalls in the zone already).

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

The problem doesn't lie with the supply considering we went from less than 1000 houses to nearly 4500. The problem(s) lies in the fact that Square Enix has reduced and consolidated prices while letting players have their own personal houses. Gilgamesh had over a thousand empty plots by the time the moratorium of early 4.1 was over so I can't think of how empty small pop servers looked like even after those two weeks had passed.

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No it has to do with supply. There are a lot of different ways to go about it, but to keep the example straight forward if every plot had unlimited slots of itself (so if you wanted space Y in area X you could have it) then all these issues would be dead. The core root issue is supply, fix supply all these other issues die. Of course if you fix supply sloppeh you might make some new problems but yeah lol. Part of the supply in my comment is including not just supply # of houses but also considers things like supply location and supply size (because for example goblet is undesired).

The only reason these things get sold as they do, and people want ways to stop it (like the timers) is because there is a supply issue. If there wasn't a supply issue then there wouldn't be a market to sell houses (which we currently have).

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

By the way, sorry to burst your bubble, but GMs do not care about 1 on 1 transactions unless someone gets scammed. If that does happen, you better hope to have that mutual agreement somewhere in the chat or they won't help you at all.

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I feel like you're upset or something, the whole thing doesn't read very nice. Clearly I was suggesting (mostly in jest) that GMs read the reddit where people sell houses and punish players for selling houses (you can get in trouble for selling houses, depending on how you do it at least lol).

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

Do I have to pull the ignorant claims you have made about housing before? Do I have to remind others that you couldn't handle facts and had to resort to blocking me?

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Ah I thought it was you. Welcome to my blocklist again! Life was so much better when your posts were filtered out. I suppose you have resorted to posting on another account because many others feel the same way about you as I do.

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Originally Posted by LuciferNacht

It's absolutely ridiculous that just because this person owns multiple houses, their points are disregarded when they literally speak the exact state of the game everytime.

But I guess haters are gonna hate right?

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That player has a strong distaste for the system being changed because they currently benefit from it. The fact that they think supply isn't a problem is laughably ridiculous. Even if the player population was evenly spread across all the servers there still wouldn't be enough houses. And part of that is because of players who do things like own half a ward. Not that there could ever be an even spread anyway given that for language reasons NA or european players would be unlikely to play on japanese servers and vice versa, or how there can be latency issues if your location is too far from certain data centres.

The ward system is unsustainable. Players who hoard several houses too easily impact the housing experience for other players, and the more popular the game gets the worse the housing system feels. We need instanced housing. Having limited plots means having a stunted experience.

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

Thought you would have noticed by now, but you really sound upset. What have you done for this server anyway?

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What have I done for the server? What have YOU done for the server besides piss people off? Dont come here trying to act like youre high and mighty and that youve done something special.
And so what you own 0.6%. You are still part of the problem. You pointing fingers at other things just make you look like a child.
Ill say again. Stop pretending you care. Because if you did youd give those plots to people who would actually use them. Not hold those plots hostage and stick bushes in front of them all with a sign that says "go to plot ?? for more details". Ive been there. Ive seen them.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Not sure I see what you're seeing. The change is players don't have to sit at the sign anymore, if a plot opens up they are put in the same priority as relocation players (and it's random).

If a player pays another player for a plot they're paying for the chance that they win the lottery, I'm sure they'll have fun with that lol. Issues still with FC selling but to fix that I think is going to be a bit more difficult without some other major changes (also FC if wanting to relocate would have to follow the lottery system too).

Lottery system will turn itself off for specific instances if a threshold crossed in supply of that specific type of house (like if you want a goblet house and there are 30 open smalls in the zone already).

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Relocation bypasses the purchase timer. As stated, nothing's changed in the trading of houses other than making it really obnoxious for players to acquire their first house.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

No it has to do with supply. There are a lot of different ways to go about it, but to keep the example straight forward if every plot had unlimited slots of itself (so if you wanted space Y in area X you could have it) then all these issues would be dead. The core root issue is supply, fix supply all these other issues die. Of course if you fix supply sloppeh you might make some new problems but yeah lol. Part of the supply in my comment is including not just supply # of houses but also considers things like supply location and supply size (because for example goblet is undesired).

The only reason these things get sold as they do, and people want ways to stop it (like the timers) is because there is a supply issue. If there wasn't a supply issue then there wouldn't be a market to sell houses (which we currently have).

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Yeah let's just disregard how bringing small plots from 25m-10m on populated servers to 3m is clearly not contributing to the player base's entitlement on top of allowing every player that has completed ARR to purchase a house (ARR gives you over a million). Let's just talk about some hypothetical scenario instead...

We started with 450 and now we're at nearly 10 times that amount of available plots. This is absolutely not a question of supply. It is quite naive to think that housing only has a market because of the purchase timer because:

1: Some players want to acquire an FC attached with a house without having to level up an FC.
2: Players have preferences regarding their ideal house location.
3: FCs can manage to not lose money by directly selling their house and workshop recipes, airships and submersibles to other players.
4: Players want to cover the cost of their house when they tranfer off

If you want to fix this problem without any effort, bring the prices back to what they were, reintroduce server segregation regarding plot pricing an let the demolition timer do its job (even though it should be much shorter than 45 days).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I feel like you're upset or something, the whole thing doesn't read very nice. Clearly I was suggesting (mostly in jest) that GMs read the reddit where people sell houses and punish players for selling houses (you can get in trouble for selling houses, depending on how you do it at least lol).

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Go read post #4, #12 and #13 if you want to see upset players.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Ah I thought it was you. Welcome to my blocklist again! Life was so much better when your posts were filtered out. I suppose you have resorted to posting on another account because many others feel the same way about you as I do.

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Glad to see you still cannot handle facts <3

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Originally Posted by Penthea

That player has a strong distaste for the system being changed because they currently benefit from it. The fact that they think supply isn't a problem is laughably ridiculous. Even if the player population was evenly spread across all the servers there still wouldn't be enough houses. And part of that is because of players who do things like own half a ward. Not that there could ever be an even spread anyway given that for language reasons NA or european players would be unlikely to play on japanese servers and vice versa, or how there can be latency issues if your location is too far from certain data centres.

The ward system is unsustainable. Players who hoard several houses too easily impact the housing experience for other players, and the more popular the game gets the worse the housing system feels. We need instanced housing. Having limited plots means having a stunted experience.

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Here we go again...

Please find me a single person that is satisfied with the current system? Literally everyone dislikes what Square Enix has done because of people like yourself who complained about a much better system. The amount of players such as myself is so microscopically small that players who take advantage of the lengthy demolition timer are in effect doing more harm than we are. I'd love to hear your opinion on how frequently players use automation in order to acquire their first house, but alas, you're just not that kind of person.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

What have I done for the server? What have YOU done for the server besides piss people off? Dont come here trying to act like youre high and mighty and that youve done something special.
And so what you own 0.6%. You are still part of the problem. You pointing fingers at other things just make you look like a child.
Ill say again. Stop pretending you care. Because if you did youd give those plots to people who would actually use them. Not hold those plots hostage and stick bushes in front of them all with a sign that says "go to plot ?? for more details". Ive been there. Ive seen them.

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How surprising, you have not answered my question. Because I'm polite, I will gladly answer yours.

I've given FC houses (with bonuses) before. One of the original owners is still on the server and we can expand on that later if you want, but your attitude leads me to believe you won't.

I've given millions to players who lost against other players who use automation.
I've blocked players who use automation from purchasing houses.
I've given millions to players that were camping plots I ultimately bought.
I've given millions to new players when Gilgamesh was on lockdown for over a year because server retention was important at that time. We can also talk about that if you want since I've posted about it on here.

Obviously, nothing special right? Every players just donates gil or houses like I do. Considering you did not answer my question and preferred to throw it back at me (totally not childish), I'm going to safely assume you haven't done anything for complete strangers.

Anyway, you've stated in a now deleted thread that I wasn't doing anything with those houses. Because you clearly know so much about me, can you explain what I don't exactly do with those houses?

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

Relocation bypasses the purchase timer. As stated, nothing's changed in the trading of houses other than making it really obnoxious for players to acquire their first house.

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Except I said that relocating would put you in the lottery too, so I've covered that issue. You cannot trade houses anymore. Relocation of any sort, or buying a house for the first time, will now put you into a lottery so that everyone is on equal grounds. House selling is much harder now (Shell FC that owned a house previously can do it still to some extent).

Optimally no system is needed though because everyone has a house.

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

Yeah let's just disregard how bringing small plots from 25m-10m on populated servers to 3m is clearly not contributing to the player base's entitlement on top of allowing every player that has completed ARR to purchase a house (ARR gives you over a million).

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You describe a supply(/demand) issue, I suggest we fix that by making a larger supply (to the level that every single person and FC with a desire to be in on the system can be in on it). Your suggestion is to fix supply by lowering demand (making them more expensive so less people want them). Both address a supply issue - yes, but only one of them gives people content that they wanted to take part in. Perhaps short term we could use your solution, but I don't think it's good for the game long term and will cause a bit of a kerfuffle (so if the solution happened without news of a fix to come later, pretty sure it'd just make people upset lol).

The end solution will always be to increase supply (if one is interested giving people content at least). Besides this isn't some hardcore Mortal Online mmo this is a theme park, so it would fit the theme best if every single person and FC that wanted a house could get one. In fact I'd argue the best solution would be to give every single person (and FC) a small plot of land by default (it just happens) and then add significant amounts of build up in that (such that it can be a large gil sink but the barrier to entry is near nil).

Getting people in on the experience and encouraging them to make a home I believe would be better for the game and the system itself (as there is justification to improve housing more then). Beyond that when you wet more toes more people might be willing to go into the deep end (improving markets related to housing both in game and cash shop). Also not threatening to remove (demolition) it if they don't show up in a while would be a nice encouragement to them being interested in it lol (but that system has to be as it is until supply is fixed).

Going back to that everyone starts with a free mog room experience. I strongly believe that housing is a brilliant idea for mmos, a home within your home away from home, and an MMO should prioritize creating that experience for players earlier than later (at least one that isn't hardcore and does things like drop loot on death / real world space no instances).

So in other words while your solution is lower effort absolutely I don't think it solves the issue in the best way. Getting everyone a home would be better, imo (but obviously more challenging task for SE to figure out- although we know it can be done in a general sense as we've seen other games do it).

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

Relocation bypasses the purchase timer. As stated, nothing's changed in the trading of houses other than making it really obnoxious for players to acquire their first house.

How surprising, you have not answered my question. Because I'm polite, I will gladly answer yours.

I've given FC houses (with bonuses) before. One of the original owners is still on the server and we can expand on that later if you want, but your attitude leads me to believe you won't.

I've given millions to players who lost against other players who use automation.
I've blocked players who use automation from purchasing houses.
I've given millions to players that were camping plots I ultimately bought.
I've given millions to new players when Gilgamesh was on lockdown for over a year because server retention was important at that time. We can also talk about that if you want since I've posted about it on here.

Obviously, nothing special right? Every players just donates gil or houses like I do. Considering you did not answer my question and preferred to throw it back at me (totally not childish), I'm going to safely assume you haven't done anything for complete strangers.

Anyway, you've stated in a now deleted thread that I wasn't doing anything with those houses. Because you clearly know so much about me, can you explain what I don't exactly do with those houses?

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Polite....riiiiight. Id like proof of all of these so called things youve done. If I dont see proof its considered a lie in my book. If they are true congratz youve won a medal.
Have I done anything for Gilga as a whole? No. Ive given newbies donations. Thats about it. Do I have proof? No I dont. (You have no reason to believe me either)
I literally just said what you do with those houses. Nothing. (Last I heard you were trying to sell them off at a premium). Why ask a stupid question. If there is a reason theyre all blocked off then please enlighten us. (And news flash, you arent special so drop the condescending attitude)

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Except I said that relocating would put you in the lottery too, so I've covered that issue. You cannot trade houses anymore. Relocation of any sort, or buying a house for the first time, will now put you into a lottery so that everyone is on equal grounds. House selling is much harder now (Shell FC that owned a house previously can do it still to some extent).

Optimally no system is needed though because everyone has a house.

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I'm confused, are you talking about your suggestion or what we are working with right now regarding relocation? And how is house trading much harder now since players are forced to fight each other for very mediocre plots just to purchase off someone to relocate to their spot. In the end, you end up with a vacant plot getting picked up and the process starts all over again.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

You describe a supply(/demand) issue...

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Square Enix is not going to take the wards away because they have kept doubling down on the concept since 2.1. They have also stated they don't intend to release more wards because of limited ressources. Should they consider adding instanced housing? Sure. But until then, adding more and more plots is not a solution because some servers aren't even full and it makes no sense from a business perspective. Players willingly chose to stay on populated servers for various reasons. That is no SE's problem.

Your idea of giving housing to everyone is ludicrous since its one of the only gil sinks in the game, even though they keep diminishing it for whatever reason. There wasn't nearly as many complaints regarding the state of housing back in ARR. Players could actually gamble with the devaluation timer on populated and that was perfectly fine. Making housing stupidly cheap and multiplying the available plots by 10 is the reason why we're here.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Id like proof of all of these so called things youve done. If I dont see proof its considered a lie in my book. If they are true congratz youve won a medal.

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Read that line over and over and tell me who's being childish here? You demand that I provide evidence, then you disregard it all. /clap /clap /clap

Because I'm good sport unlike someone else...
https://twitter.com/YshtolaCat/statu...45398164516864
https://twitter.com/YshtolaCat/statu...42812376731648
Message them if you want. They changed location but are still in the Mist under BDC.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Have I done anything for Gilga as a whole? No. Ive given newbies donations. Thats about it. Do I have proof? No I dont. (You have no reason to believe me either)

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Yeah... donations to newbies... let's pretend you gave a couple dozens millions to sprouts, so the comparison isn't unfair, you would still be miles behind me on helping out players on the server.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I literally just said what you do with those houses. Nothing. (Last I heard you were trying to sell them off at a premium). Why ask a stupid question.

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Stupid question? More like you have no clue. Here, let me enlighten you:

I charge Aetherial wheels in every single house. (gotta love selling primed tier 3 FC buffs to FCs such as yours because of a lack of anticipation and/or ressources)
I use flowerpots in every single house.
I use the garden(s) on every single house.
I decorated the inside and outside of every single house.
I use 20 airships and 13 submarines spread across those houses.

Why do you care if I want to sell them off at a "premium"? I mean if you have roughly 2 billion, we can talk about it... but you probably don't have more than a couple hundred K's with that attitude. I believe 2,000,000,000 is a good starting point considering you get 20 houses, that don't have to be repurchased, in the same ward. I'll let you know some neighbors were very shrewd negotiators when it was time to talk about evictions. I would be glad to see a roleplaying FC pick the ward up or anyone else who has more original plans than mine which consists of making an insane amount of money off of these houses.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

If there is a reason theyre all blocked off then please enlighten us. (And news flash, you arent special so drop the condescending attitude)

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Blocked off? Do you hold a grudge against players who lock their houses? Well be reassured, all of the houses are accessible to the public and have always been. You can literally run through the vegetation if you didn't know...

Much love

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

I'm confused, are you talking about your suggestion or what we are working with right now regarding relocation? And how is house trading much harder now since players are forced to fight each other for very mediocre plots just to purchase off someone to relocate to their spot. In the end, you end up with a vacant plot getting picked up and the process starts all over again.

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Was discussing a new system, not the current system.

The suggestion was to replace the placard random unknown waiting timer system and introduce a lottery that lasts for whatever amount of time SE thinks of. At the end of the lottery those interested get raffled and one is a winner. Every house that becomes available either through demolition or relocation (leaving a plot) will go through the lottery, so if someone tried to sell a space they're only selling a chance at it.

This means no more waiting at a placard for many hours, just sign up, pray to Thal, and leave to play the game lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

Square Enix is not going to take the wards away because they have kept doubling down on the concept since 2.1. They have also stated they don't intend to release more wards because of limited ressources. Should they consider adding instanced housing? Sure. But until then, adding more and more plots is not a solution because some servers aren't even full and it makes no sense from a business perspective. Players willingly chose to stay on populated servers for various reasons. That is no SE's problem.

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Didn't ask to destroy the wards. I think doing that would be a mistake and in general I don't like changing the carpet underneath people. But the current system is bad in many ways (imo) and I believe creating a new system would be best (doubling down on bad is not as helpful as making something more powerful and flexible, like instanced housing - imo). "Instanced housing" wording used here of course in that sense of being more dynamic to the demands, ESO, Wildstar, Garrison, etc, etc, where there isn't really a supply limit (as many want to have it do get to have it, no weird hoops to jump through or servers to abandon).

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

Your idea of giving housing to everyone is ludicrous since its one of the only gil sinks in the game, even though they keep diminishing it for whatever reason. There wasn't nearly as many complaints regarding the state of housing back in ARR. Players could actually gamble with the devaluation timer on populated and that was perfectly fine. Making housing stupidly cheap and multiplying the available plots by 10 is the reason why we're here.

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Didn't say remove gil sink :3. I said make a small area (even one small room) free to everyone, and then give them the tools to upgrade that into a zone/large house. Like in FFXI how you were given a room but you could upgrade it for more space and a second floor, except I'm saying here make it even a longer progression (floors, outdoors, etc, etc). Imo ideally to the point it becomes Wildstar tier housing.

If you want a large house (or even larger given that a system is made powerful enough like Wildstar) then you will still be playing part in the gil sink. The gil sink wasn't removed. I believe plopping the system into people's laps is better as they will toy with it out of curiousity vs having to invest in a system that they're not sure they're ready to go that deep investment with. "oh I like this room, I want it larger" and "well I guess I have a place of my own so I should probably get some stuff to put it in (visit marketward)" is a better gil sink than "I don't want to spend that much money on something I'm not sure I'll love in a place I'm not really fond of in a system that will remove it from me if I don't touch it frequently".

I believe investment is important and do not want the concept gone, but I think the barrier to entry should be exceptionally low (and the supply 1:1). Of course the first step in the progression ladder isn't a mansion (not saying give everyone a free mansion and 5000 yalms of land), like FFXI it'd start small (but potential for a lot of growth and power). So if you wanted a small house, medium, large, etc (if instanced it has opportunity for more dynamic progression and steps), then you'll still invest and the sink still there - I believe in this route the sink is actually much larger overall :).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Was discussing a new system, not the current system.

This means no more waiting at a placard for many hours, just sign up, pray to Thal, and leave to play the game lol.




Didn't ask to destroy the wards. I think doing that would be a mistake and in general I don't like changing the carpet underneath people. But the current system is bad in many ways (imo) and I believe creating a new system would be best (doubling down on bad is not as helpful as making something more powerful and flexible, like instanced housing - imo). "Instanced housing" wording used here of course in that sense of being more dynamic to the demands, ESO, Wildstar, Garrison, etc, etc, where there isn't really a supply limit (as many want to have it do get to have it, no weird hoops to jump through or servers to abandon).



Didn't say remove gil sink :3. I said make a small area (even one small room) free to everyone, and then give them the tools to upgrade that into a zone/large house. Like in FFXI how you were given a room but you could upgrade it for more space and a second floor, except I'm saying here make it even a longer progression (floors, outdoors, etc, etc). Imo ideally to the point it becomes Wildstar tier housing.

If you want a large house (or even larger given that a system is made powerful enough like Wildstar) then you will still be playing part in the gil sink. The gil sink wasn't removed. I believe plopping the system into people's laps is better as they will toy with it out of curiousity vs having to invest in a system that they're not sure they're ready to go that deep investment with. "oh I like this room, I want it larger" and "well I guess I have a place of my own so I should probably get some stuff to put it in (visit marketward)" is a better gil sink than "I don't want to spend that much money on something I'm not sure I'll love in a place I'm not really fond of in a system that will remove it from me if I don't touch it frequently".

I believe investment is important and do not want the concept gone, but I think the barrier to entry should be exceptionally low (and the supply 1:1). Of course the first step in the progression ladder isn't a mansion (not saying give everyone a free mansion and 5000 yalms of land), like FFXI it'd start small (but potential for a lot of growth and power). So if you wanted a small house, medium, large, etc (if instanced it has opportunity for more dynamic progression and steps), then you'll still invest and the sink still there - I believe in this route the sink is actually much larger overall :).

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I gotta say. I really love that idea

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Was discussing a new system, not the current system.

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Then I guess we did not understand each other.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

The suggestion was to get rid of the placard random unknown waiting timer system and replace it with a lottery that lasts for whatever amount of time SE thinks of. At the end of the lottery those interested get raffled and one is a winner. Every house that becomes available either through demolition or relocation (leaving a plot) will go through the lottery, so if you try to sell your space you're only selling a chance at it.

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We used to have that. It was called devaluation. Now the prices are so incredibly low that its not doing its job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Didn't ask to destroy the wards. I think doing that would be a mistake and in general I don't like changing the carpet underneath people. But the current system is bad in many ways (imo) and I believe creating a new system would be best (doubling down on bad is not as helpful as making something more powerful and flexible, like instanced housing).

Didn't say remove gil sink. I said make a small area (even one small room) free to everyone, and then give them the tools to upgrade that into a zone/large house. Like in FFXI how you were given a room but you could upgrade it for more space and a second floor, except I'm saying here make it even a longer progression (floors, outdoors, etc, etc). Imo ideally to the point it becomes Wildstar tier housing.

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I didn't imply you wanted to get rid of the wards, I was giving context... Context as to why putting out more plots is not a solution or how the "lack" of plots is even the reason why we're in this situation. You did indirectly talk about removing a gil sink by introducing something similar to an apt :3. 300k isnt much but its better than 300k that is still in circulation. If teleportation has a cost, I don't see why anything could justify handing out freebies to players, especially when everything related to housing has a cost. There's plenty of items that are not obtainable for everyone in this game and that's the way it should be.

I'll just point out that Wildstar doesn't exist anymore. Surely that game did a few things wrong in order to not be financially stable. You know, some decisions just come back to haunt you sometimes...

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

~~~

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Bodied.

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

I didn't imply you wanted to get rid of the wards, I was giving context... Context as to why putting out more plots is not a solution or how the "lack" of plots is even the reason why we're in this situation. You did indirectly talk about removing a gil sink by introducing something similar to an apt :3. 300k isnt much but its better than 300k that is still in circulation. If teleportation has a cost, I don't see why anything could justify handing out freebies to players, especially when everything related to housing has a cost. There's plenty of items that are not obtainable for everyone in this game and that's the way it should be.

I'll just point out that Wildstar doesn't exist anymore. Surely that game did a few things wrong in order to not be financially stable. You know, some decisions just come back to haunt you sometimes...

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Issue with wildstar wasn't its housing, I followed its demise and that was one of the things keeping people around. If anything it delayed its death lol. That said there are other near as powerful systems in other mmos that are still doing well, so I dont put much mind that wildstar is dead. I just say wildstar because imo it was the best I've seen.


Sure 300k, but we could build back in that cost in progression of the house. Like I said getting people's toes into the system with progressive investments will encourage them to part with their cash and especially if they are not afraid it'll demolish up later lol.


For example free room (one room) at level 15-25. 5k gets you a teleport beacon. 15k gets you a mog mail, 20k retainer, balcony for 30k, etc, we can easily build in the sink and people can feel comfortable to invest (splitting them into low prices will help players progress and enjoy sooner than dropping larger amounts at once, especially if they know the content will grow and maintain value over patches). As you go of course costs increase, so buying the whole chocobo ranch extension (like FF7) would cost a pretty farthing (we can add costs beyond gil, like actual quest content).


I suppose I could write out a parallel system and develope a basic timeline of content and sinks just for giggles lol.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Issue with wildstar wasn't its housing, I followed its demise and that was one of the things keeping people around. If anything it delayed its death lol.

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Most of my friends who played that game told me that the housing system kept them interested far longer than the rest of the game. I never used it myself but I heard little other than good things about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Sure 300k, but we could build back in that cost in progression of the house. Like I said getting people's toes into the system with progressive investments will encourage them to part with their cash and especially if they are not afraid it'll demolish up later lol.

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I know quite a few people who have hesitated or outright refused to get a house because they're concerned about losing it. So that gil sink for them isn't something they consider an option.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

For example free room (one room) at level 15-25. 5k gets you a teleport beacon. 15k gets you a mog mail, 20k retainer, balcony for 30k, etc, we can easily build in the sink and people can feel comfortable to invest (splitting them into low prices will help players progress and enjoy sooner than dropping larger amounts at once, especially if they know the content will grow and maintain value over patches). As you go of course costs increase, so buying the whole chocobo ranch extension (like FF7) would cost a pretty farthing (we can add costs beyond gil, like actual quest content).

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This sounds like a great idea. It would allow players to begin to dive into housing early, due to the low initial costs, but it provides a legitimate gil sink as they unlock better content later on. Technically you can get in to housing early-ish in FFXIV, lvl 50 isn't considered very high lvl anymore. But 300 - 500k is a lot of money for a sprout of that lvl so even if they can purchase some form of housing, they're not likely to until much later due to the cost. Forget the cost of a house. No sprouts at lvl 50 have millions of gil unless it was given to them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

II suppose I could write out a parallel system and develope a basic timeline of content and sinks just for giggles lol.

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At this point I think you should make a new thread going into detail about this.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Polite....riiiiight. Id like proof of all of these so called things youve done. If I dont see proof its considered a lie in my book. If they are true congratz youve won a medal.
Have I done anything for Gilga as a whole? No. Ive given newbies donations. Thats about it. Do I have proof? No I dont. (You have no reason to believe me either)
I literally just said what you do with those houses. Nothing. (Last I heard you were trying to sell them off at a premium). Why ask a stupid question. If there is a reason theyre all blocked off then please enlighten us. (And news flash, you arent special so drop the condescending attitude)

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Don't take Yshtola seriously. I've seen him on discords, reddit and here. He boasts about his 26-28 (no one cares what the actual number is Ysh) whenever he gets a chance to.

I agree completely with your former statement that people like Yshtola is part of the problem. I've had people DM me on discord warning me about him.

He speaks of how ''the problem is the the price and that players feel entitled to houses''. The better question is why people like him feel entitled to having 28+(?) houses when we've all accepted the fact that houses are in low supply. And in-case other ''house hoarders'' read this, let me potray this as simple as I can. By owning say... 30 houses. You're indirectly making sure so that 29 other players will be unable to get a house. You've not broken any rules and you've gained these houses ''fair and square''. But you are extremely hypocritical if you walk around talking about housing issues when you're robbing people of houses for your own selfish needs.

Personally I like Shouguns proposal better than the current iteration of an invisible timer simply because it doesn't get much worse than this. In reality I think a better first step would be to actually enforce players with multiple houses to pick ONE main house before reimbursing them and demolishing the others. They implemented the rule of 1 personal house per account, but didn't remove the houses from those who already owned multiple houses.

I understand however that this might seem unfair to those who has gathered these houses fair and square over the years. But unless square enix comes up with a better solution of instancing or a complete rework. Allowing players to own up to WHO KNOWs how many houses for themselves is inexcusable.

I can keep rambling about this, but i'll stop myself here.

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Originally Posted by Forsving95

Don't take Yshtola seriously. I've seen him on discords, reddit and here. He boasts about his 26-28 (no one cares what the actual number is Ysh) whenever he gets a chance to.

I agree completely with your former statement that people like Yshtola is part of the problem. I've had people DM me on discord warning me about him.

He speaks of how ''the problem is the the price and that players feel entitled to houses''. The better question is why people like him feel entitled to having 28+(?) houses when we've all accepted the fact that houses are in low supply. And in-case other ''house hoarders'' read this, let me potray this as simple as I can. By owning say... 30 houses. You're indirectly making sure so that 29 other players will be unable to get a house. You've not broken any rules and you've gained these houses ''fair and square''. But you are extremely hypocritical if you walk around talking about housing issues when you're robbing people of houses for your own selfish needs.

Personally I like Shouguns proposal better than the current iteration of an invisible timer simply because it doesn't get much worse than this. In reality I think a better first step would be to actually enforce players with multiple houses to pick ONE main house before reimbursing them and demolishing the others. They implemented the rule of 1 personal house per account, but didn't remove the houses from those who already owned multiple houses.

I understand however that this might seem unfair to those who has gathered these houses fair and square over the years. But unless square enix comes up with a better solution of instancing or a complete rework. Allowing players to own up to WHO KNOWs how many houses for themselves is inexcusable.

I can keep rambling about this, but i'll stop myself here.

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Following your logic, rich people aren't allowed to talk about poverty?

Thank you for your 30 houses scenario as not only is it easy to destroy, but it'll maybe even make you see clearly. You say 29 players could own these other houses. I say those 29 players would be blocking hundreds of FC members looking for a home. SE has almost decupled the total amount of houses per server since housing came out. It's funny because you started off with dismissing my point regarding pricing, but a couple words later you claim that the real issue is the low quantity (4000+ vs 450 in 2.1) of houses per server. It's like you're not even aware of the obvious correlation between the two. If you cannot understand that lowering prices by a landslide on anything remotely popular or desirable would cause players to unjustifiably feel entitled to those items, then you are a lost cause. Multi-house owners leveled their characters/FCs, acquired the gil and purchased a house. The entitlement is justified.

Also, FC houses have been considered as grandfathered for a grand total of two weeks (4.1) so hopefully you can stop sharing information that has been outdated for nearly a year and a half.

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Originally Posted by Yshtola

Following your logic, rich people aren't allowed to talk about poverty?

Thank you for your 30 houses scenario as not only is it easy to destroy, but it'll maybe even make you see clearly. You say 29 players could own these other houses. I say those 29 players would be blocking hundreds of FC members looking for a home. SE has almost decupled the total amount of houses per server since housing came out. It's funny because you started off with dismissing my point regarding pricing, but a couple words later you claim that the real issue is the low quantity (4000+ vs 450 in 2.1) of houses per server. It's like you're not even aware of the obvious correlation between the two. If you cannot understand that lowering prices by a landslide on anything remotely popular or desirable would cause players to unjustifiably feel entitled to those items, then you are a lost cause. Multi-house owners leveled their characters/FCs, acquired the gil and purchased a house. The entitlement is justified.

Also, FC houses have been considered as grandfathered for a grand total of two weeks (4.1) so hopefully you can stop sharing information that has been outdated for nearly a year and a half.

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You're missing the point as you always seem. One person owning more than one house and one FC estate IS by definition preventing other players from owning a house. You're trying to derail my argument with non-sense. Are you trying to say FC's should gain priority over private players because an FC allows more players? I don't understand your logic, nor does anyone else considering the amount of people who argues with you.

You are a single person. You don't need more than 1 personal house. And as I've stated previously. You can talk about poverty, but you seem deluded by the fact that you are my definition preventing players from owning their own house.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Forsving95

You're missing the point as you always seem. One person owning more than one house and one FC estate IS by definition preventing other players from owning a house. You're trying to derail my argument with non-sense. Are you trying to say FC's should gain priority over private players because an FC allows more players? I don't understand your logic, nor does anyone else considering the amount of people who argues with you.

You are a single person. You don't need more than 1 personal house. And as I've stated previously. You can talk about poverty, but you seem deluded by the fact that you are my definition preventing players from owning their own house.

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Missing the point? I've acknowledge housing issues and have been doing so for a while. You see the tree, I see the forest. Having me "prevent" 29 players from owning a house is nothing in comparison to the thousands of players letting their house become abandonned to the point where every player has to wait a month and a half for them to get a chance at acquiring it. Thousands only step through the door only when the demolition timer is about to kick in. Thousands of players who own a private house are blocking FCs that would obviously benefit more players. There are bigger concerns regarding housing than a handful of players who possess more houses than your average player.

I don't care if people cry because I'm providing facts while they bring up complaints and illogical beliefs. I leveled up all those FCs/alts, I acquired the gil, I bought the houses. You tell me I don't need more than 1 house, but really, who even are you? You're just a player and so am I. Until I have staff members contacting me regarding any of this, why would I care about what you or any other player has to say regarding what I can and cannot do?

Pretty sure they are going to do a combination of fixes and forcing players with many houses to only have one house. Going to be a lot of salt on here from the very few players with multiple houses when that happens, but not like they are going to leave the game anytime soon as they have way too much invested in it. And if they do leave no big loss as they make up an extremely tiny portion of the userbase.

Either way I predict a lottery system and forcing people down to 1 personal and 1 FC house. That and probably a new district in ishgard where you must craft your house.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by supergiz

Either way I predict a lottery system

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This would cause even more salt than removing grandfathering and reducing ownership amount to one fc and one personal house. Placard spam is already lottery if you're competing with anyone for the plot. Actual lottery would have more competition because the effort for participation would be near zero. Everyone who didn't have time to placard spam would suddenly have a way to participate. Plots would take less effort to purchase, but could end up taking a much longer amount of time due to the inevitable increase in competition reducing your chances of a win. It would be insane on some servers.

We need to remove the rng aspect out of housing completely. And we also need instanced housing so that we get a completely fair system that isn't riddled with problems like house shortages, bots clicking placards, hoarders depriving other people of houses with their greed, and opportunists selling plots for downright ridiculous fees such as more than ten times the actual price of the plot which of course feeds RMT.

First thing the needs to happen is SE implement a policy for everyone, 1 house per account. FC's leaders can own one house and one apartment. Give the community 45 days to decide which house the want to keep then auto demi the rest. Too bad, so sad.

Next they need to set strict guidelines for FC owned houses. Small require 11 active players, Medium 31 active players, and Large 51 active players. If an FC can't keep that number within 60 days, auto demi.

Only after that can they look at adding private wards and FC only wards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Penthea

This would cause even more salt than removing grandfathering and reducing ownership amount to one fc and one personal house. Placard spam is already lottery if you're competing with anyone for the plot. Actual lottery would have more competition because the effort for participation would be near zero. Everyone who didn't have time to placard spam would suddenly have a way to participate. Plots would take less effort to purchase, but could end up taking a much longer amount of time due to the inevitable increase in competition reducing your chances of a win. It would be insane on some servers.

We need to remove the rng aspect out of housing completely. And we also need instanced housing so that we get a completely fair system that isn't riddled with problems like house shortages, bots clicking placards, hoarders depriving other people of houses with their greed, and opportunists selling plots for downright ridiculous fees such as more than ten times the actual price of the plot which of course feeds RMT.

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Needs of the many out weigh needs of the few. Sucks but we have reached the saturation point of the current system.

They aren't going to force anyone to give up a house. The idea is ridiculous. I agree there are things in the game not everyone has. Housing in an investment. So is raiding. I don't have 012s cleared because I haven't taken the time it requires. Does that mean I get to sit here and demand that they give me the Omega mount anyway because I pay for my sub like everyone else and am entitled to it? No. There are housing options for everyone (whine all you want FC rooms and Apartments are housing options). If thats not good enough for you then do what it takes to get one (Put in the time sink or switch to a server with plenty of open housing -> those exist. Stop trying to take things from other players because you're otherwise not willing to do what it takes to get what you want and they are.

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Originally Posted by Azurith

Housing in an investment. So is raiding. I don't have 012s cleared because I haven't taken the time it requires. Does that mean I get to sit here and demand that they give me the Omega mount anyway because I pay for my sub like everyone else and am entitled to it? No.

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Someone else entering a raid instance doesn't reduce your chances of being able to enter one too. You also can't enter several raid instances at the same time. Some other raid team killing a boss doesn't affect your chances of killing a boss. Someone getting a house immediately reduces the chances of others getting one on the same server, and there are players who own several houses on the same server.

Not everyone who wants a house and complains about not having one is someone who didn't put in the work. I had enough gil to buy a medium house long before I could even try to buy any plot. By the time I could make a purchase I had enough gil for two mediums and two cottages. More than six months passed between me getting the gil for one medium and being able to attempt to buy -any- house. In raiding if you got the gear you can immediately start trying to get the kills.

Comparing housing and raiding doesn't work. You don't see people complaining about being unable to enter a raid instance, despite being geared for them, for literal months or years. As for kills, players can always eventually get them either through hard work, when content is nerfed or when there is a new expansion. There are players around since ARR who still have no house.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azurith

They aren't going to force anyone to give up a house. The idea is ridiculous. I agree there are things in the game not everyone has. Housing in an investment. So is raiding. I don't have 012s cleared because I haven't taken the time it requires. Does that mean I get to sit here and demand that they give me the Omega mount anyway because I pay for my sub like everyone else and am entitled to it? No. There are housing options for everyone (whine all you want FC rooms and Apartments are housing options). If thats not good enough for you then do what it takes to get one (Put in the time sink or switch to a server with plenty of open housing -> those exist. Stop trying to take things from other players because you're otherwise not willing to do what it takes to get what you want and they are.

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Sorry but that analogy would only work if Omega Mount was offered to first 10 groups that complete it. Housing isn't an investment anymore, it's a crap shoot. Players are meeting all the requirement to purchase but due to limited supply they can't. Yea it's SE's fault for not having better rules in the beginning, but owning an ENTIRE WARD is just ridiculous even if it wasn't against ToS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Sorry but that analogy would only work if Omega Mount was offered to first 10 groups that complete it. Housing isn't an investment anymore, it's a crap shoot. Players are meeting all the requirement to purchase but due to limited supply they can't. Yea it's SE's fault for not having better rules in the beginning, but owning an ENTIRE WARD is just ridiculous even if it wasn't against ToS.

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I second this. Housing is not the same as raiding/mounts. There is a player in my server (Gilgamesh) that created alts and long with his FC own 20 plots. He is pretty famous in the forum since i believe he just likes to brag about it. The thing is, the houses are not even used, they are just there...