Crafting and Gathering for Everyone: Complete CHANGE to Make it More FUN?

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

After we revamp medicine, food, and accessories in patch 1.21, we plan on completely readjusting all actions and abilities for Disciples of the Land and Hand in or after patch 1.22.

We will let you know as soon as the direction of these adjustments has been finalized.

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Hi All,

While it's definitely good news that Yoshida-san and team are looking to "completely readjust all actions and abilities" for DoL and DoH, perhaps this is an opportunity for Yoshida-san's team to look at the *heart* of the matter with Crafting (and Gathering):

• Is Crafting fundamentally *fun*? Is it something you really want to do, stationary, in a corner, hitting "ENTER" all day long?

There have been many great suggestions across numerous threads about how to fix Crafting. I fear that no amount of "readjusting actions" is going to save Crafting (and to a lesser extent Gathering (more on this later)).

Like Combat and the *total change* that has happened (starting back at square one and changing up Positioning, New Traits, Abilities, Self Combos, etc.), perhaps Yoshida-san and team should *completely* revamp Crafting, to make something most players (whether you're an Adventurer / Fighter-type or not) can enjoy?

There was a great thread back in the early days of Final Fantasy XIV on FFXIV Core, where people brought up some interesting ideas (if anyone remembers who contributed in that thread, please let me know, I'll be glad to add them here to give them credit). :) Taking a cue from that, here are some dramatic changes that could make Disciples of the Hand far more engaging, and something you *WANT* to do, and have fun with:

* NEW BLACKSMITH CRAFTING *

• Part 1, SMELTING: Players must take Raw Ore to a Foundry / Forge and melt and purify the Raw Metals. Mini-Game involves the Player adjusting the Temperature of the Fire in the Forge, while Smelting. Different Metals could have an ideal Temperature range, that you have to keep the Fire stoked at.

• Part 2, FORGING: The next step is to work with the Smelted Metal. Players can choose *how* to strike, "punch" or cut the Metal, etc., to form the Base Shape / Foundation.

• Part 3, FINISHING: This involves putting the final Touches on desired item. Perhaps you can choose the Angle of Striking. How gentle or fierce you want to strike, etc. to achieve the desired results.

Through all of this, you could have "encounters / challenges" with, say, the Fire, suddenly spiking greatly, or dying out, and you have to raise (or lower) the Temperature of the Fire in the Forge to keep it within range. Or a slight distortion happens during Forging, and you have to use different methods to properly strike / cut, etc. the Metal back into an ideal shape, etc.


* NEW CARPENTER CRAFTING *

• Part 1, LUMBER-MAKING: Carpenters work the large Saws to prepare Raw Logs into usable Lumber. Challenges include the angle of cutting, and hitting knots and irregularities in the wood.

• Part 2, SHAPING: Carpenters take the processed Lumber, and can now *shape* the wood into the basic, core shape. This includes using the proper Chisel, perhaps even using the Controller / Mouse / Keys to guide the cut to form the proper shape. Or choosing Angle of Chisel Strike, Force of the Strike, etc.

• Part 3, SANDING: Finishing off the final item involves sanding and polishing the item until it's ready. This could include deciding what to apply (proper Sandpaper, the right Lacquer, etc.).

* NEW CLOTHCRAFT CRAFTING *

• Part 1, SPINNING: This would involve working Raw Fibers (Cotton Bolls, Flax, etc.) into usable Thread. But Players can work on a giant Spinning Machine (like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sp...03_Marsden.png) to work on spinning the raw fibers. Challenges could include adjusting the Speed of the Spinning, or how to counteract with the something gets caught in the machine.

• Part 2, WEAVING: This would involve choosing how to interlace the Threads you've just made in Part 1, perhaps choosing how many threads to cross at once, or the speed of weaving, etc.

• Part 3, ORNAMENTATION: This would be using a fun Final Fantasy Loom / Contraption (or perhaps just using your Needle) to apply the finishing touches on the Cloth item. You could choose to apply a grand Flourish, or different types of Knots, etc.

These are just some examples of what could be done, if they truly revamp Crafting from scratch.

Naturally this is a much more involved process, with more "set pieces" (e.g., a Forge, an Anvil / Hammering portion, etc.) instead of just a tiny table that you craft on. Perhaps you travel to various Forges / Logging Guilds / Textile Guilds, etc. around various Camps or Cities to gain different advantages? Or take on various challenges?

But ultimately, the idea is that Square creates a Crafting System that's *interesting* and challenging enough that it's not just hitting "ENTER" (or choosing from a simple Text Menu of choices) but actually something that you can do and have noticeable changes in action doing.

Just like Combat, they could make Crafting into something where you're challenged to different things at each stage of the Craft (like "encountering an enemy and reacting to how they attack"), working a Grand Forge to smelt Metal, choosing how to strike the Metal and Shape it on an Anvil, etc., adjusting for Temperature or Angle of Strike, etc.

With this more involved Crafting, they should adjust EXP so you gain MORE EXP PER SYNTH (since it takes much more time), so you don't have to do as many repetitions but gain More EXP Per Attempt.

It'd be something interesting you want to challenge and try.

If anyone has more ideas along the lines of a major overhaul (like the ones I listed above), I'd be glad to update this Original Post and add them (for the other crafts - Armorcraft, Leatherworking, etc.)).

For GATHERING, it's less boring because you're at least moving around the environment (change of scenery), but I had some ideas to add a New Mini-Game to make Gatherers be able to level up and get more involved *without* increasing the amount of Raw Materials in the world (which could upset the economy):

• Botanist - RESTORATION - Botanists can go to various spots around the world and PLANT SEEDS, or GRAFT Trees, or try and MEND damaged Trees.

• Miner - RESTORATION - Miners could go to Mineral Deposits around the world and try and FORTIFY the Deposits, or STRENGTHEN Quarry Points.

• Fisher - RESTORATION - Fishermen could travel to various bodies of water and help RESTORE Polluted Waters / clean them up. Or help NURTURE schools of fish and help them repopulate.

All of these could be interesting Mini-Games for Gatherers that would not generate more Raw Materials, but still help with making Leveling Up those Classes more fun and interesting. :)

Would something like this make you interested in crafting, or gathering, if it was more engaging and intricate, with fewer repetitions?

Thanks.

Does this mean that durign your current craft, you have certain percentages that change what you're doing?

For example;

When you say the new Blacksmith crafting, you have the smelting of the ore. Does this mean that you start off at a portable smelter like with the tables we get now and when you hit a certain percentage it changes to a tempered iron bucket form which you have to carefully pour the molten steel into a mold.

But for each stage requires a different approach to the craft, instead of spamming standard you have other options that would work better. This all, of course, falls under the duration of the craft we started, not separate.

Is this what you're portraying? or are you talking physically having to go through each of the steps individually on seperate crafts but in a mini game? If that's the case it will make crafting even worse.

Though this is just an opinion Gath has, Gath still feels like he is in the majority when he thinks that this would just add to the frustration of the current crafting system.

Over complicating things can get out of hand and you go from something unrealistic yet bearable, to something that has way too many mechanics to make it even remotely fun but make it a bit more tedious than it already is.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

Hi Gath,

(Thanks for FFXIV Core, BTW.) :)

So in the Blacksmith example, I was imagining that the first portion of a Synth Attempt would be the Smelting (like working a Forge / Portable Smelter for Temperature / Challenges for Part 1). Then after a certain percentage you'd go into Part 2, Forging, where you Hammer / Strike / Cut the Metal with its own set of activities / "Crafting Weaponskills" to utilize, etc.

It could even be more interactive where you adjust the angle of your Strike, etc.

I definitely don't want to make Crafting more of a chore. Just thinking of ways to make Crafting more *engaging* and interesting rather than just choose from a Drop Down Text Menu. (^_^;

I'm just hoping for Crafting to become either more *interesting* (essentially the Crafting version of "engaging a Monster, choosing the right Crafting Weaponskills or Crafting Combos to use at various times") and fun (different activities with Crafting (like Smelting, Forging, Finishing)), OR, go with a simplified System where they remove more of the monotony of just hitting "Enter" all day long.

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi Gath,

(Thanks for FFXIV Core, BTW.) :)

So in the Blacksmith example, I was imagining that the first portion of a Synth Attempt would be the Smelting (like working a Forge / Portable Smelter for Temperature / Challenges for Part 1). Then after a certain percentage you'd go into Part 2, Forging, where you Hammer / Strike / Cut the Metal with its own set of activities / "Crafting Weaponskills" to utilize, etc.

It could even be more interactive where you adjust the angle of your Strike, etc.

I definitely don't want to make Crafting more of a chore. Just thinking of ways to make Crafting more *engaging* and interesting rather than just choose from a Drop Down Text Menu. (^_^;

I'm just hoping for Crafting to become either more *interesting* (essentially the Crafting version of "engaging a Monster, choosing the right Crafting Weaponskills or Crafting Combos to use at various times") and fun (different activities with Crafting (like Smelting, Forging, Finishing)), OR, go with a simplified System where they remove more of the monotony of just hitting "Enter" all day long.

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Ahh, Gath understands, instead of it being more synths it changes how it works during the current synths we have. The whole idea of the combos is pretty nifty, but, what about when it comes to other synths, like cooking? do you do some epic from behind, over the back of the head seasoning addition? For some Gath can see being fun, but some would be a little difficult.

Gath likes the idea, Gath would approve of its addition, but Gath also thinks that SE doesn't want to add epic "boss battles" to crafting as much as Gath would love to slay Garuda with a frying pan. SE has a direction of crafting that is still a little iffy on what to expect so Gath has his hopes up.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

Hello, Kiara. :)

I'll take some time to write my thoughts here, as it's a matter dear to me, being my main Classes in Eorzea.

I go against the tide by saying that after 15 months in Eorzea I still enjoy crafting and gathering as they're now.
For crafting, it's not simply “Hitting Enter”, for me (yeah, I know that's the tendency...). I never do “craft grinding” or else I'd probably get bored, too; I take my Local Levequests at the Adventurers' Guild and then go somewhere, varying the place where I craft, be it the clearing outside the Drowning Wench, the Milvaneth Sacrarium or Arrzaneth Ossuary, a cliff with a good view... It depends on the day. For instance, now I'm in the Sil'dih Aqueducts, I did some fishing before and now I feel like crafting those fares. :D
And I relax in doing it, I think if I've to hit “Wait” or use one of the 4 abilities I've equipped (I use only 4). Now that I'm level 48, it's much easier than in the past, so I don't think or “Wait” so often anymore, but I always enjoyed that part and doing one local leve still takes me a good 10 minutes.

Overall, I think crafting should remain for those dedicated adventurers who would like to put commitment in these Classes, to create their own equipment.

If crafting would change too drastically... Hmm, I don't know... Improvements are always welcome, sure. And your suggestions on Blacksmith, Carpenter and Weaver are Great, but I'd see them well as additional mini-games to vary among the usual mini-game for those who don't like it. So you can choose what to do and how to grow as a crafter. Yes, I think more interaction with the craftsman environment would be a good addition.
So far I only know that Yoshida is planning to make us use special facilities inside beast tribe strongholds to create special equipment. Also, for much future content, I remember he spoke (found the post) of an underground facility in your house, where you could create airships and your own boat (!), something I'm really looking forward to.


While for gathering, I'm always part of the minority that likes the way it is. Unfortunately, I know some adventurers who “do it for the money and not for fun”, and I always advise against doing something you don't like to do in Eorzea, but also I know many who enjoy it (mostly japanese).
Therefore, I wouldn't like drastical changes for gathering, either, but again, improvements and new features are always welcome, like the new mini-games you suggested (I myself thought in the past about mending damaged trees, and there could also be some story behind it, if the setting is the Twelveswood and the trees felled by the Ixal).
For instance, the first thing I'm looking forward to in 2.0 are the new areas *Explorer Inside* :rolleyes: , but right after there's the personal housing and I can't wait to take care of my own garden. :D
Generally, since I like it so much, I'm sure I'd be glad with any kind of new gathering content added.


But again, take this post as only the personal feelings of one of the few adventurers of Eorzea who actually enjoys being a Disciple of the Hand & Land. :)

Crafting would be more fun if the rewards you got from it were actually worth the trouble. Particularly before cap. Oh, and right now recipes are a convoluted mess of "dated" items and things that are just plain worthless.

i have to say my thoughts are more along the lines with Onizuka than the original op.

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Originally Posted by Gath

Ahh, Gath understands, instead of it being more synths it changes how it works during the current synths we have. The whole idea of the combos is pretty nifty, but, what about when it comes to other synths, like cooking? do you do some epic from behind, over the back of the head seasoning addition? For some Gath can see being fun, but some would be a little difficult.

Gath likes the idea, Gath would approve of its addition, but Gath also thinks that SE doesn't want to add epic "boss battles" to crafting as much as Gath would love to slay Garuda with a frying pan. SE has a direction of crafting that is still a little iffy on what to expect so Gath has his hopes up.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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Hi Gath,

Good questions. :) Perhaps there are Crafting "Combos" where you utilize one "Crafting Weaponskill" -> in succession with another one to gain an increase in Quality, or Percentage Complete (if people are fearful of failing a harder synth, about to blow up / lose the synth, etc.)? :)

As for Boss Battles, good point. :) If there was one Primal that I thought would be great to tie a Crafting Reward to, it'd be Ifrit, with a special Ifrit Hellfire Frying Pan. ;)

Yah, we'll see what Yoshida-san has planned for the updates to Crafting and Gathering. I hope it's something to add interest to these classes and make them more engaging and accessible.

In addition to all great advices given above, I think crafting/gathering should use ideas from cooking/gardening mama. LOL.

Simple, cheesy, yet it's fun and addicting.

There definitely needs to be a boost to both exp and skill involved in crafting/gathering

The cooking mama one is interesting.. I'd like to see more ideas from people on improving these mini games.

THIS IS WHAT FISHING SHOULD BE LIKE

Sorry if they could make fishing this awesome in a single player game... how many years ago? It can make it into FFXIV.

I applaud the ideas but I think (personally) that creating a more intricate system is a bad idea. I am in favor of simple, fast, fun, and rewarding. Maybe a really short puzzle game or something (crappy idea.) In terms of rewarding how about more than just the same old crap going around (i.e. - cobalt set, etc..) I mean, hooray...rank 50...now I can make...umm...<sigh> more cobalt body armor...

I have seen the mention of requiring crafters to make the rarer, more epic items and maybe this should be the case. Also, fast is a big deal - taking 90 seconds to craft the same crap for garbage exp gets, well, old.

It's final fantasy. Crafting should be a major pain in the arse to me, the rewards should be great. I think it's sad that people can get all crafts to max level, crafting in FF has never been 'fun' to speak of, I'm not sure you can make it fun tbh. If you had mini-games it'd be cool for about 2 synths, then omg how crappy would it be. Think about what you are saying, a 'parley' (forgive the spelling) type game for each synth... I want to stop crafting now just thinking about it.

The main thing I would change moving foward, make level 50 the cap for all except one skill. Right now you can level everyting to max level, it dilutes the economy, and we all craft to make money. When 1.xx or 2.0 comes out and the level cap raises to 60, or maybe 70, let's keep all but one skill topped at 50. That way if you need your new level 70 bow socketed, or that new level 70 body piece socketed, the person that put the time into working wood or arm to 70 could get paid for that time-sink.

We (most people, i'd argue 90%+) craft, and gather, to make money! It's such a repetitive thing, both crafting and gathering, you can't make it fun. If there were a mini-game for crafting and gathering it'd get really freaking old, really really fast. They have made tons of changes to the system to make it more streamline, faster. A mini-game would destroy all changes that have been made for the better.

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Originally Posted by waldo

It's final fantasy. Crafting should be a major pain in the arse to me, the rewards should be great. I think it's sad that people can get all crafts to max level, crafting in FF has never been 'fun' to speak of, I'm not sure you can make it fun tbh. If you had mini-games it'd be cool for about 2 synths, then omg how crappy would it be. Think about what you are saying, a 'parley' (forgive the spelling) type game for each synth... I want to stop crafting now just thinking about it.

The main thing I would change moving foward, make level 50 the cap for all except one skill. Right now you can level everyting to max level, it dilutes the economy, and we all craft to make money. When 1.xx or 2.0 comes out and the level cap raises to 60, or maybe 70, let's keep all but one skill topped at 50. That way if you need your new level 70 bow socketed, or that new level 70 body piece socketed, the person that put the time into working wood or arm to 70 could get paid for that time-sink.

We (most people, i'd argue 90%+) craft, and gather, to make money! It's such a repetitive thing, both crafting and gathering, you can't make it fun. If there were a mini-game for crafting and gathering it'd get really freaking old, really really fast. They have made tons of changes to the system to make it more streamline, faster. A mini-game would destroy all changes that have been made for the better.

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to do this they should also make it to where only one battle class and one gathering class can go beyond rank 50. some people craft because they enjoy it. i'm not a fan of limiting what can be leveled beyond 50 at all. think of it this way if it was that way from the start more people would have left months ago because they were out of things to do.

there's no difference in the time and effort that person put in that only does woodworking to 70 than it is for someone that took that same time and effort to get 4 classes to 70. that single rank 70 class took the same amount of time. sure you may have done it 3 times for other classes later, but still took the same amount of time for each one..

After reading this thread, it almost sounds like we should get away with leveling as far as crafting goes. For example a mini game (e.g., cooking mama sort...) which increases difficulty depending on the crafting item. Wouldn't this get rid of the grinding aspect and provide some level of challenge to all users?

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Originally Posted by Onizuka

While for gathering, I'm always part of the minority that likes the way it is.

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I don't think your the minority. Honestly, I think most people lke the gathering itself. I know I do.

Good suggestions. Would love to see a "cooking mumma" implementation.

Crafting doesn't have to be dull and repititive, we're just gotten used to it.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i have to say my thoughts are more along the lines with Onizuka than the original op.

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Agreed - although I see what the OP is getting at as well. Both would work imo.. crafting is just crafting.

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Originally Posted by Bulwarkz

Agreed - although I see what the OP is getting at as well. Both would work imo.. crafting is just crafting.

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Dissagree. "Cooking Mama" sold over 1.6 million copies in its addictive gameplay and appeal. Mario Party DS sold over 5.85 million and the series is still going on strong with its 11th release TBA of the series. The same styles of gaming could be implemented in FFXIV.

This outdated view that crafting has to be dull and tedious because its crafting is outdated.

Hmm, I don't necessarily agree with some of the OPs idea that sound like they could potentially make crafting more tedious and complicated.

The "restoration" idea for gathering is really cool and could work well though - its always great when you give players more abilities to help each other out/interact with the world positively in an online game.

Honestly, I think crafting AND gathering would be a lot more interesting if they were more visual. As in, instead of these bars and graphs for gathering, you'd actually zoom in on a new texture for a tree/rock/school of fish and choose different-looking spots to pinpoint and gather at. And for crafting, instead of the different-colored balls of light we could actually see the item we're working on and the changing condition it's in throughout the crafting process, at least when crafting finished gear.

I think that would make it more fun without making it more tedious!

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Originally Posted by Avraym

Dissagree. "Cooking Mama" sold over 1.6 million copies in its addictive gameplay and appeal. Mario Party DS sold over 5.85 million and the series is still going on strong with its 11th release TBA of the series. The same styles of gaming could be implemented in FFXIV.

This outdated view that crafting has to be dull and tedious because its crafting is outdated.

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Dissagreess with you too. Well excuse me for agreeing with different ideas and point of views. Your "statistics" on games are so irrelevant and dumbfounding it's baffling. If you got all hung up on me saying crafting is just crafting and interpreted that as me saying it's dull and tedious, way to jump the gun and be wrong. I happen to enjoy it myself and see nothing wrong with some of the suggestions mentioned thus far. I simply meant it's always gonna be a 'side note' / mini-game in a MMO and there's only so many ways it can be done and implemented.

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Originally Posted by Onizuka

Hello, Kiara. :)

I'll take some time to write my thoughts here, as it's a matter dear to me, being my main Classes in Eorzea.

I go against the tide by saying that after 15 months in Eorzea I still enjoy crafting and gathering as they're now.
For crafting, it's not simply “Hitting Enter”, for me (yeah, I know that's the tendency...). I never do “craft grinding” or else I'd probably get bored, too; I take my Local Levequests at the Adventurers' Guild and then go somewhere, varying the place where I craft, be it the clearing outside the Drowning Wench, the Milvaneth Sacrarium or Arrzaneth Ossuary, a cliff with a good view... It depends on the day. For instance, now I'm in the Sil'dih Aqueducts, I did some fishing before and now I feel like crafting those fares. :D
And I relax in doing it, I think if I've to hit “Wait” or use one of the 4 abilities I've equipped (I use only 4). Now that I'm level 48, it's much easier than in the past, so I don't think or “Wait” so often anymore, but I always enjoyed that part and doing one local leve still takes me a good 10 minutes.

If crafting would change too drastically... Hmm, I don't know... Improvements are always welcome, sure. And your suggestions on Blacksmith, Carpenter and Weaver are Great, but I'd see them well as additional mini-games to vary among the usual mini-game for those who don't like it. So you can choose what to do and how to grow as a crafter. Yes, I think more interaction with the craftsman environment would be a good addition.
So far I only know that Yoshida is planning to make us use special facilities inside beast tribe strongholds to create special equipment. Also, for much future content, I remember he spoke (found the post) of an underground facility in your house, where you could create airships and your own boat (!), something I'm really looking forward to.


While for gathering, I'm always part of the minority that likes the way it is. Unfortunately, I know some adventurers who “do it for the money and not for fun”, and I always advise against doing something you don't like to do in Eorzea, but also I know many who enjoy it (mostly japanese).
Therefore, I wouldn't like drastical changes for gathering, either, but again, improvements and new features are always welcome, like the new mini-games you suggested (I myself thought in the past about mending damaged trees, and there could also be some story behind it, if the setting is the Twelveswood and the trees felled by the Ixal).
For instance, the first thing I'm looking forward to in 2.0 are the new areas *Explorer Inside* :rolleyes: , but right after there's the personal housing and I can't wait to take care of my own garden. :D
Generally, since I like it so much, I'm sure I'd be glad with any kind of new gathering content added.


But again, take this post as only the personal feelings of one of the few adventurers of Eorzea who actually enjoys being a Disciple of the Hand & Land. :)

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Hi Onizuka,

Thanks for your thoughts. :)

Re: Crafting, don't get me wrong. Of course I realize it's more than just "hitting Enter" to do a good synth. ;) (When I try to HQ, I pick my favorite skills to use like Perfection, etc.) :) And I also try and set up in a more scenic place at times (if I'm not short on time - the bridge outside the Leatherworker Guild is nice).

But as someone who really liked wanting to develop my Carpenter Class to 50 early on, who didn't remember the horrible, monotonous GRIND of thousands of Masks (Walnut Masks, Yew Halfmasks, etc.)? :shudder:

That's why I proposed some of those ideas in the Original Post:

I'd rather do a more involved, *interesting* Crafting Challenge (that grants MORE EXP PER SYNTH (and it may take longer)), instead of Grinding Thousands of Masks.

If the more involved Mini-Game (that had "Crafting Combos" or more interesting steps in crafting) was equal to about, say, ~5 Synths of a Walnut Mask, I'd take doing ONE of the more involved, engaging New Crafting Mini-Games to get the same amount of EXP as 5 Walnut Mask Synths on Carpenter.

Re: Gathering - I definitely enjoy Botanist and meant that the "Restoration" Mini-Game be *in addition* to the current stuff we have now. Just one more interesting way to get EXP without SE worrying about the issue of Gatherer's Fatigue, or the influx / quantity of Raw Materials being introduced to Market, etc. (when we get more players online for 2.0).

Overall, though, I hope the Crafting Revamp fixes some of the ridiculous Randomness that happens right now (like on a White Orb, 100% Repaired Gear, Food, Support attempt, using Standard, it will result in an Elemental Destabilization, etc.) .

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Originally Posted by JustMy2Cents

In addition to all great advices given above, I think crafting/gathering should use ideas from cooking/gardening mama. LOL.

Simple, cheesy, yet it's fun and addicting.

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Hi Venice,

I never played Cooking Mama, but I've heard from friends who love that game! :) I think Culinarian Class could gain some interesting ideas from stuff like Cooking Mama. There are many interesting steps to Cooking in general, I think it'd be great to delve into that, so that you could Fry, Boil, Bake, Sous Vide, Garnish, etc. :)

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Originally Posted by Roaran

THIS IS WHAT FISHING SHOULD BE LIKE

Sorry if they could make fishing this awesome in a single player game... how many years ago? It can make it into FFXIV.

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Awesome...

I like your restoration ideas for the gatherers, particularaly Botanist. The other gathering restorations sound a little flaky though, but i do like the idea.

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Originally Posted by Bulwarkz

Dissagreess with you too. Well excuse me for agreeing with different ideas and point of views. Your "statistics" on games are so irrelevant and dumbfounding it's baffling. If you got all hung up on me saying crafting is just crafting and interpreted that as me saying it's dull and tedious, way to jump the gun and be wrong. I happen to enjoy it myself and see nothing wrong with some of the suggestions mentioned thus far. I simply meant it's always gonna be a 'side note' / mini-game in a MMO and there's only so many ways it can be done and implemented.

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Disagree again. Yoshida and Tanaka both had the same vision that crafting was an essential part of the game, and wanted them to be have just as much involvement in FFXIV as Disciples of War / Magic.

Given that vision, Crafting/Gathering is a massive part of FFXIV wether we like it or not.

I'd like to think that statistics are relevant. A game selling that many copies obviously has broad appeal (particularly in japan in this case). So lets take a look at what made those games successful (All Cooking mama is, is minigames of crafting / gathering ) and see if we can't make FFXIV's more fun.

OF course you think the current FFXIV minigames are fun, your highest gathering/craft is level 20.

Wait til you hit 50 on one of them before you voice how they aren't dull and tedious.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

THIS IS WHAT FISHING SHOULD BE LIKE

Sorry if they could make fishing this awesome in a single player game... how many years ago? It can make it into FFXIV.

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Hi Roaran,

Nice memories! :) Yah, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time's Fishing was really fun.

If they made a Fishing Mini-Game that was more interactive like that, I'd level my Fishing Class to 50. ;) One can hope.

The highest level I got was a level 26 weaver by just grinding without a purpose. One day, I said to myself, "what the hell am I doing...?", and that was the end of crafting for me.

Bottom line, I think crafting/gathering needs a major overhaul; I honestly don't think these simple "tweaks" provided by patches will change anything. SE needs to make it more engaging so people don't always look at the experience bar every 30 seconds.

Right now crafting/gathering is just too boring for me... I'd rather go outside and climb a tree...

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Originally Posted by Avraym

Wait til you hit 50 on one of them before you voice how they aren't dull and tedious.

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ok since you want to use levels as a requirement for someone stating they like something. i am 50 in every crafting and gathering class and enjoy them. just because you do not enjoy something does not mean nobody else likes it.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

ok since you want to use levels as a requirement for someone stating they like something. i am 50 in every crafting and gathering class and enjoy them. just because you do not enjoy something does not mean nobody else likes it.

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Please, describe in lengthy detail what you enjoy about it.

I'm genuinely curious as to the mindset of someone who thought the current minigame was "enjoyable".

Making any sort of involved mini-game will by far annoy me more over our current crafting system. Like others, I, too, enjoy crafting in this game. To Avraym, my greatest piece of enjoyment is thatI feel like I have a level of control over it. The only annoyance inherent in the system is the time it takes to complete a synthesis, which falls mostly on the time it takes to carry out each action. That they're removing the timer is a huge plus, as it currently necessitates typing in-between commands to be quickfire.

Making crafting easier would make it appealing to mostly everyone. This is counter any sort of wish to build a community. If everyone makes their own stuff, why even have a market ward?

Gathering itself I've always found legitimately fun. I don't even play movies in the background while gathering. I see no need to change it.

I think no matter what SE come out, it will get old and people start to hate it again. Or it's too complex -> people start to hate again.

I think gathering is fun too. only recently I craft with local leves, it's slightly more fun. Maybe the only reason is that I was moving around, and I can see exp bar move faster. Make the whole craft grinding shorter is good :D

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Originally Posted by Answa

Making any sort of involved mini-game will by far annoy me more over our current crafting system. .

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This right here sums up why you can not make it too too involved.

Crafting is what it is, so is gathering, there is only so much we can do with it before it becomes too tedious to be worth doing.


It needs to be kept simple(such as combat is) and enjoyable to those willing to do it.

In the end the most important thing to remember is, one way or another some people will not like it, and others will. You cant satisfy everyone so why change what isnt broken.

They are changing certain aspects of it sure, but it really doesnt need a "complete minigame overhaul" like several people are asking for.


Im sorry, but i dont want mini games thatl take forever to do or can confuse your average allages player that will become a hurdle rather then enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

Please, describe in lengthy detail what you enjoy about it.

I'm genuinely curious as to the mindset of someone who thought the current minigame was "enjoyable".

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Hello.

You didn't ask the question to me, but I'd like to answer with my point of view. ...Actually, I already did it on the first page, here, where I briefly explained why I enjoy crafting.
It's not a lenghty explanation, but it should be enough to describe my reasons.

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Originally Posted by Onizuka

I go against the tide by saying that after 15 months in Eorzea I still enjoy crafting and gathering as they're now.
For crafting, it's not simply “Hitting Enter”, for me (yeah, I know that's the tendency...). I never do “craft grinding” or else I'd probably get bored, too; I take my Local Levequests at the Adventurers' Guild and then go somewhere, varying the place where I craft, be it the clearing outside the Drowning Wench, the Milvaneth Sacrarium or Arrzaneth Ossuary, a cliff with a good view... It depends on the day. For instance, now I'm in the Sil'dih Aqueducts, I did some fishing before and now I feel like crafting those fares. :D
And I relax in doing it, I think if I've to hit “Wait” or use one of the 4 abilities I've equipped (I use only 4). Now that I'm level 48, it's much easier than in the past, so I don't think or “Wait” so often anymore, but I always enjoyed that part and doing one local leve still takes me a good 10 minutes.

Overall, I think crafting should remain for those dedicated adventurers who would like to put commitment in these Classes, to create their own equipment.

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Unfortunately, I'm well aware that the majority of adventurers doesn't like crafting, and that's OK. What I never understood is how they could still do it if they don't like it. In Eorzea I always suggest doing only things that we like to do... Why we shouldn't?? :D
I, for one, find crafting and gathering relaxing. It really depends on the reasons why one is in Eorzea and what he or she is looking for. :)

To answer Coglin: yeah, I know personally some adventurers who enjoy gathering, too (and crafting), but I'm aware that we're a minority. At least, in Eorzea every time I asked to other adventurers it seemed like they were doing something they didn't like (and that's their choice).
Even worse for crafting, where I still see Disciples of the Hand that... yeah, just press Enter. Be the orb red or be it multicolor... Enter. Not only they didn't enjoy crafting, but, even worse, they did something they considered boring, something they didn't want to do. /sigh

The only thing that I didn't like was the randomness of the HQ results, but I analyzed that thoroughly and Yoshida-san took care of it (in 1.21).

Whatever changes to the system will arrive in 2.0, I'll be sure to tell the dev team, when the time comes, that I enjoyed crafting from the beginning. In early levels it required to think rather than just “pressing Enter”, and when I slowly grew as a craftsman and could create my own equipment, I had my satisfactions. :)

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

This right here sums up why you can not make it too too involved.

Crafting is what it is, so is gathering, there is only so much we can do with it before it becomes too tedious to be worth doing.


It needs to be kept simple(such as combat is) and enjoyable to those willing to do it.

In the end the most important thing to remember is, one way or another some people will not like it, and others will. You cant satisfy everyone so why change what isnt broken.

They are changing certain aspects of it sure, but it really doesnt need a "complete minigame overhaul" like several people are asking for.


Im sorry, but i dont want mini games thatl take forever to do or can confuse your average allages player that will become a hurdle rather then enjoyable.

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Hi TheVedis, Answa,

Certainly a very good point. Either Yoshida-san and company should make Crafting less tedious / more straightforward, or make something that's more engaging and interesting (I also noted it in my original post).

In regards to the combat example, while it can be "simple" for someone to run up and just pull out their weapon and auto-attack, the New Combat Revisions (over the last 3 patches) (including the upcoming Job System rollout), provides a level of *interest* and *fun* we haven't ever had in FF XIV:

They added in the importance of Positioning in combat (certain weaponskills / combos from the Left/Right, or Front or Behind), Distance (Archer), and the Individual Combos. Traits kick in and provide an interesting layer to add depth and provide things to the group that people didn't think about at first (e.g., Sacred Prism (CON) skill + Sanguine Rite (THM), cast by a THM, providing the Trait Bonus to everyone in the party, etc.). :)

Just saying that Combat has been revamped for the better and made far more interesting than the previous old "1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 1, 1, 1, 4, 1, 1,etc." (Spamming Light Attack manually, spamming AOE Sacrifice III, then AOE Siphon MP to get all your MP back, etc.).

So with Crafting, they should either make it less tedious (as some players are asking for (valid)), or make it more interesting with different activities (which is what I was suggesting)).

I hope we get some good changes either way. :)

Thanks~

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Originally Posted by Kiara

They added in the importance of Positioning in combat (certain weaponskills / combos from the Left/Right, or Front or Behind), Distance (Archer), and the Individual Combos. Traits kick in and provide an interesting layer to add depth and provide things to the group that people didn't think about at first (e.g., Sacred Prism (CON) skill + Sanguine Rite (THM), cast by a THM, providing the Trait Bonus to everyone in the party, etc.). :)

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they didn't add importance positioning in combat. being in the right location during a battle was always part of the battle. the did expand on that and have combo's that required you to move around during battle though. they also removed the majority of the need to be in spots for incapping items off the mobs allowing extra items to be dropped(ex: buffalo horn).

they did make improvements in some spots, but took steps backwards in others. i would love to see incaps on mobs become a larger part of the game and not less.

people have also used abilities together to do other things. chainspell + shadowsear was a perfect example of using things together from different classes and they were used alot in a ton of different combinations.

I'd like them to add a repeat recipe for normal items like they have on the leve items.Going into you list every time to pick the same items you want to craft slows things down way too much when grinding.

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Originally Posted by Onizuka

Unfortunately, I'm well aware that the majority of adventurers doesn't like crafting, and that's OK. What I never understood is how they could still do it if they don't like it. In Eorzea I always suggest doing only things that we like to do... Why we shouldn't?? :D

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Because Crafting Items + Materia Melding > EX/Gear.

If it wasn't for this fact and crafting was merely a side-on addition, I wouldn't bother with it.

Also given that Yoshida obviously has big plans to include DoH/DoL into 2.0+, it seems like it will pay off in the future.

Do i enjoy crafting? No. Do i like having the best gear possible with appropriate melds without having to relly on strangers or linkshell members? Yes.