Crafting and Gathering for Everyone: Complete CHANGE to Make it More FUN?

[Kiara]

After we revamp medicine, food, and accessories in patch 1.21, we plan on completely readjusting all actions and abilities for Disciples of the Land and Hand in or after patch 1.22.

We will let you know as soon as the direction of these adjustments has been finalized.

Hi All,

While it's definitely good news that Yoshida-san and team are looking to "completely readjust all actions and abilities" for DoL and DoH, perhaps this is an opportunity for Yoshida-san's team to look at the *heart* of the matter with Crafting (and Gathering):

• Is Crafting fundamentally *fun*? Is it something you really want to do, stationary, in a corner, hitting "ENTER" all day long?

There have been many great suggestions across numerous threads about how to fix Crafting. I fear that no amount of "readjusting actions" is going to save Crafting (and to a lesser extent Gathering (more on this later)).

Like Combat and the *total change* that has happened (starting back at square one and changing up Positioning, New Traits, Abilities, Self Combos, etc.), perhaps Yoshida-san and team should *completely* revamp Crafting, to make something most players (whether you're an Adventurer / Fighter-type or not) can enjoy?

There was a great thread back in the early days of Final Fantasy XIV on FFXIV Core, where people brought up some interesting ideas (if anyone remembers who contributed in that thread, please let me know, I'll be glad to add them here to give them credit). Taking a cue from that, here are some dramatic changes that could make Disciples of the Hand far more engaging, and something you *WANT* to do, and have fun with:

* NEW BLACKSMITH CRAFTING *

• Part 1, SMELTING: Players must take Raw Ore to a Foundry / Forge and melt and purify the Raw Metals. Mini-Game involves the Player adjusting the Temperature of the Fire in the Forge, while Smelting. Different Metals could have an ideal Temperature range, that you have to keep the Fire stoked at.

• Part 2, FORGING: The next step is to work with the Smelted Metal. Players can choose *how* to strike, "punch" or cut the Metal, etc., to form the Base Shape / Foundation.

• Part 3, FINISHING: This involves putting the final Touches on desired item. Perhaps you can choose the Angle of Striking. How gentle or fierce you want to strike, etc. to achieve the desired results.

Through all of this, you could have "encounters / challenges" with, say, the Fire, suddenly spiking greatly, or dying out, and you have to raise (or lower) the Temperature of the Fire in the Forge to keep it within range. Or a slight distortion happens during Forging, and you have to use different methods to properly strike / cut, etc. the Metal back into an ideal shape, etc.


* NEW CARPENTER CRAFTING *

• Part 1, LUMBER-MAKING: Carpenters work the large Saws to prepare Raw Logs into usable Lumber. Challenges include the angle of cutting, and hitting knots and irregularities in the wood.

• Part 2, SHAPING: Carpenters take the processed Lumber, and can now *shape* the wood into the basic, core shape. This includes using the proper Chisel, perhaps even using the Controller / Mouse / Keys to guide the cut to form the proper shape. Or choosing Angle of Chisel Strike, Force of the Strike, etc.

• Part 3, SANDING: Finishing off the final item involves sanding and polishing the item until it's ready. This could include deciding what to apply (proper Sandpaper, the right Lacquer, etc.).

* NEW CLOTHCRAFT CRAFTING *

• Part 1, SPINNING: This would involve working Raw Fibers (Cotton Bolls, Flax, etc.) into usable Thread. But Players can work on a giant Spinning Machine (like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sp...03_Marsden.png) to work on spinning the raw fibers. Challenges could include adjusting the Speed of the Spinning, or how to counteract with the something gets caught in the machine.

• Part 2, WEAVING: This would involve choosing how to interlace the Threads you've just made in Part 1, perhaps choosing how many threads to cross at once, or the speed of weaving, etc.

• Part 3, ORNAMENTATION: This would be using a fun Final Fantasy Loom / Contraption (or perhaps just using your Needle) to apply the finishing touches on the Cloth item. You could choose to apply a grand Flourish, or different types of Knots, etc.

These are just some examples of what could be done, if they truly revamp Crafting from scratch.

Naturally this is a much more involved process, with more "set pieces" (e.g., a Forge, an Anvil / Hammering portion, etc.) instead of just a tiny table that you craft on. Perhaps you travel to various Forges / Logging Guilds / Textile Guilds, etc. around various Camps or Cities to gain different advantages? Or take on various challenges?

But ultimately, the idea is that Square creates a Crafting System that's *interesting* and challenging enough that it's not just hitting "ENTER" (or choosing from a simple Text Menu of choices) but actually something that you can do and have noticeable changes in action doing.

Just like Combat, they could make Crafting into something where you're challenged to different things at each stage of the Craft (like "encountering an enemy and reacting to how they attack"), working a Grand Forge to smelt Metal, choosing how to strike the Metal and Shape it on an Anvil, etc., adjusting for Temperature or Angle of Strike, etc.

With this more involved Crafting, they should adjust EXP so you gain MORE EXP PER SYNTH (since it takes much more time), so you don't have to do as many repetitions but gain More EXP Per Attempt.

It'd be something interesting you want to challenge and try.

If anyone has more ideas along the lines of a major overhaul (like the ones I listed above), I'd be glad to update this Original Post and add them (for the other crafts - Armorcraft, Leatherworking, etc.)).

For GATHERING, it's less boring because you're at least moving around the environment (change of scenery), but I had some ideas to add a New Mini-Game to make Gatherers be able to level up and get more involved *without* increasing the amount of Raw Materials in the world (which could upset the economy):

• Botanist - RESTORATION - Botanists can go to various spots around the world and PLANT SEEDS, or GRAFT Trees, or try and MEND damaged Trees.

• Miner - RESTORATION - Miners could go to Mineral Deposits around the world and try and FORTIFY the Deposits, or STRENGTHEN Quarry Points.

• Fisher - RESTORATION - Fishermen could travel to various bodies of water and help RESTORE Polluted Waters / clean them up. Or help NURTURE schools of fish and help them repopulate.

All of these could be interesting Mini-Games for Gatherers that would not generate more Raw Materials, but still help with making Leveling Up those Classes more fun and interesting.

Would something like this make you interested in crafting, or gathering, if it was more engaging and intricate, with fewer repetitions?

Thanks.

[Gath]

Does this mean that durign your current craft, you have certain percentages that change what you're doing?

For example;

When you say the new Blacksmith crafting, you have the smelting of the ore. Does this mean that you start off at a portable smelter like with the tables we get now and when you hit a certain percentage it changes to a tempered iron bucket form which you have to carefully pour the molten steel into a mold.

But for each stage requires a different approach to the craft, instead of spamming standard you have other options that would work better. This all, of course, falls under the duration of the craft we started, not separate.

Is this what you're portraying? or are you talking physically having to go through each of the steps individually on seperate crafts but in a mini game? If that's the case it will make crafting even worse.

Though this is just an opinion Gath has, Gath still feels like he is in the majority when he thinks that this would just add to the frustration of the current crafting system.

Over complicating things can get out of hand and you go from something unrealistic yet bearable, to something that has way too many mechanics to make it even remotely fun but make it a bit more tedious than it already is.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

[Kiara]

Hi Gath,

(Thanks for FFXIV Core, BTW.)

So in the Blacksmith example, I was imagining that the first portion of a Synth Attempt would be the Smelting (like working a Forge / Portable Smelter for Temperature / Challenges for Part 1). Then after a certain percentage you'd go into Part 2, Forging, where you Hammer / Strike / Cut the Metal with its own set of activities / "Crafting Weaponskills" to utilize, etc.

It could even be more interactive where you adjust the angle of your Strike, etc.

I definitely don't want to make Crafting more of a chore. Just thinking of ways to make Crafting more *engaging* and interesting rather than just choose from a Drop Down Text Menu. (^_^;

I'm just hoping for Crafting to become either more *interesting* (essentially the Crafting version of "engaging a Monster, choosing the right Crafting Weaponskills or Crafting Combos to use at various times") and fun (different activities with Crafting (like Smelting, Forging, Finishing)), OR, go with a simplified System where they remove more of the monotony of just hitting "Enter" all day long.

[Gath]

Hi Gath,

(Thanks for FFXIV Core, BTW.)

So in the Blacksmith example, I was imagining that the first portion of a Synth Attempt would be the Smelting (like working a Forge / Portable Smelter for Temperature / Challenges for Part 1). Then after a certain percentage you'd go into Part 2, Forging, where you Hammer / Strike / Cut the Metal with its own set of activities / "Crafting Weaponskills" to utilize, etc.

It could even be more interactive where you adjust the angle of your Strike, etc.

I definitely don't want to make Crafting more of a chore. Just thinking of ways to make Crafting more *engaging* and interesting rather than just choose from a Drop Down Text Menu. (^_^;

I'm just hoping for Crafting to become either more *interesting* (essentially the Crafting version of "engaging a Monster, choosing the right Crafting Weaponskills or Crafting Combos to use at various times") and fun (different activities with Crafting (like Smelting, Forging, Finishing)), OR, go with a simplified System where they remove more of the monotony of just hitting "Enter" all day long.

Ahh, Gath understands, instead of it being more synths it changes how it works during the current synths we have. The whole idea of the combos is pretty nifty, but, what about when it comes to other synths, like cooking? do you do some epic from behind, over the back of the head seasoning addition? For some Gath can see being fun, but some would be a little difficult.

Gath likes the idea, Gath would approve of its addition, but Gath also thinks that SE doesn't want to add epic "boss battles" to crafting as much as Gath would love to slay Garuda with a frying pan. SE has a direction of crafting that is still a little iffy on what to expect so Gath has his hopes up.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

[Onizuka]

Hello, Kiara.

I'll take some time to write my thoughts here, as it's a matter dear to me, being my main Classes in Eorzea.

I go against the tide by saying that after 15 months in Eorzea I still enjoy crafting and gathering as they're now.
For crafting, it's not simply “Hitting Enter”, for me (yeah, I know that's the tendency...). I never do “craft grinding” or else I'd probably get bored, too; I take my Local Levequests at the Adventurers' Guild and then go somewhere, varying the place where I craft, be it the clearing outside the Drowning Wench, the Milvaneth Sacrarium or Arrzaneth Ossuary, a cliff with a good view... It depends on the day. For instance, now I'm in the Sil'dih Aqueducts, I did some fishing before and now I feel like crafting those fares.
And I relax in doing it, I think if I've to hit “Wait” or use one of the 4 abilities I've equipped (I use only 4). Now that I'm level 48, it's much easier than in the past, so I don't think or “Wait” so often anymore, but I always enjoyed that part and doing one local leve still takes me a good 10 minutes.

Overall, I think crafting should remain for those dedicated adventurers who would like to put commitment in these Classes, to create their own equipment.

If crafting would change too drastically... Hmm, I don't know... Improvements are always welcome, sure. And your suggestions on Blacksmith, Carpenter and Weaver are Great, but I'd see them well as additional mini-games to vary among the usual mini-game for those who don't like it. So you can choose what to do and how to grow as a crafter. Yes, I think more interaction with the craftsman environment would be a good addition.
So far I only know that Yoshida is planning to make us use special facilities inside beast tribe strongholds to create special equipment. Also, for much future content, I remember he spoke (found the post) of an underground facility in your house, where you could create airships and your own boat (!), something I'm really looking forward to.


While for gathering, I'm always part of the minority that likes the way it is. Unfortunately, I know some adventurers who “do it for the money and not for fun”, and I always advise against doing something you don't like to do in Eorzea, but also I know many who enjoy it (mostly japanese).
Therefore, I wouldn't like drastical changes for gathering, either, but again, improvements and new features are always welcome, like the new mini-games you suggested (I myself thought in the past about mending damaged trees, and there could also be some story behind it, if the setting is the Twelveswood and the trees felled by the Ixal).
For instance, the first thing I'm looking forward to in 2.0 are the new areas *Explorer Inside* , but right after there's the personal housing and I can't wait to take care of my own garden.
Generally, since I like it so much, I'm sure I'd be glad with any kind of new gathering content added.


But again, take this post as only the personal feelings of one of the few adventurers of Eorzea who actually enjoys being a Disciple of the Hand & Land.

[Sidious]

Crafting would be more fun if the rewards you got from it were actually worth the trouble. Particularly before cap. Oh, and right now recipes are a convoluted mess of "dated" items and things that are just plain worthless.

[darkstarpoet1]

i have to say my thoughts are more along the lines with Onizuka than the original op.

[Kiara]

Ahh, Gath understands, instead of it being more synths it changes how it works during the current synths we have. The whole idea of the combos is pretty nifty, but, what about when it comes to other synths, like cooking? do you do some epic from behind, over the back of the head seasoning addition? For some Gath can see being fun, but some would be a little difficult.

Gath likes the idea, Gath would approve of its addition, but Gath also thinks that SE doesn't want to add epic "boss battles" to crafting as much as Gath would love to slay Garuda with a frying pan. SE has a direction of crafting that is still a little iffy on what to expect so Gath has his hopes up.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

Hi Gath,

Good questions. Perhaps there are Crafting "Combos" where you utilize one "Crafting Weaponskill" -> in succession with another one to gain an increase in Quality, or Percentage Complete (if people are fearful of failing a harder synth, about to blow up / lose the synth, etc.)?

As for Boss Battles, good point. If there was one Primal that I thought would be great to tie a Crafting Reward to, it'd be Ifrit, with a special Ifrit Hellfire Frying Pan.

Yah, we'll see what Yoshida-san has planned for the updates to Crafting and Gathering. I hope it's something to add interest to these classes and make them more engaging and accessible.

[JustMy2Cents]

In addition to all great advices given above, I think crafting/gathering should use ideas from cooking/gardening mama. LOL.

Simple, cheesy, yet it's fun and addicting.

[Zantetsuken]

There definitely needs to be a boost to both exp and skill involved in crafting/gathering

The cooking mama one is interesting.. I'd like to see more ideas from people on improving these mini games.