Or slaughter?
Are these nodes EVER going to see the light of day again, or are they beyond dead to you? I haven't played a 72 man of either in an incredibly long time.
Can't you have a weekly spotlight for each node? Can't you tell us ANYTHING regarding PvP, please? You guys are always so quiet and leave us in the dark far too long.
@SE: When are you reviving Secure 72 man secure?
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11-23-2015, 04:57 PMTheWaywardWind@SE: When are you reviving Secure 72 man secure?
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11-23-2015, 07:17 PMGuesswhat
No those modes are dead. Even the 24 modes are on life-support. Before they fix this however, as pointed out 1 million times+, is to fix queue time. If I were in SE's shoes right now I would just revamp the whole PvP thing.
And, as I understand it, the only way to get in WD now is to create an event for yourself. I have Qd 10 hours + since 3.0 with just 1 match. To be honest I don't really get how WD could have died so fast. It's just 4 vs 4. It really shows how much the playerbase generally cares about PvP. -
11-23-2015, 07:23 PMSerilda
I think I have played a total of two games of Secure since 3.0 hit, both 24-man. I haven't seen Slaughter pop once. The queues are ridiculous even for Seal Rock at the time of day I play (I was in a queue for 7 hours last week, even resetting from time to time, and in the end I gave up and went to bed). 72-man Seal Rock only happens at peak times, I dread to imagine how long a theoretical queue for 72-man Secure or Slaughter would be now.
I actually dislike the old modes because the level sync is so low that I have to juggle my hotbars really awkwardly when I land in them, and they don't pop often enough for me to remember and put together a proper hotbar loadout. I wish they'd do a level 60 version so it could at least be a viable alternative for Seal Rock, even if I did get a little burned out on Slaughter back in the day. -
11-23-2015, 08:48 PMTwiissTwiissPlease no.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind
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11-23-2015, 10:39 PMUlricCraftI love Slaughter, it's the only mode where I can get Battle High as a White Mage. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TwiissTwiiss
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11-23-2015, 10:54 PMTwiissTwiissTry the field commander set in seal rock. Also doable there :DQuote:
Originally Posted by UlricCraft
https://i.imgur.com/rMWp9jx.png -
11-24-2015, 02:34 AMTheWaywardWindQuote:
Originally Posted by Serilda
I'm not proposing they bring back the modes without bringing them back up to speed, of course. And I'm not proposing the make queue times even more awful. They would need to have their level cap raised to 60 and adjusted accordingly.
The queues for either would not be bad if you provided reason for people to play them, rather than just letting the modes sit there and die because people automatically jump to the newest thing let out.
If you actually change it up, like I said, and make each mode shine for a week with added benefits like increased PvP exp/wolf marks/esoterics, more people would be willing to play.
Nothing about fixing PvP currently is tough or challenging, but it just seems like with how infrequent updates to PvP are and how infrequently SE gives us any information ever, it feels like they just flat out don't mind if PvP dies.
Trust me, as I much as I HATE HATE HATE 72 man spam-cometeor-fest, it would just be unfair to the people that would want to play it again and for me to play favorites and only want secure back.Quote:
Originally Posted by TwiissTwiiss
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11-24-2015, 03:36 PMJasottHow exactly can they fix people not doing it, which is the only way they can fix queue times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guesswhat
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11-24-2015, 04:05 PMPotatoTree
They need to rework the queue system if they were to bring them back, or else we'll just have the already dwindling PvP population split into 3 queue groups for each mode.
The queues needs to be no-GC, and first in first out style queue instead of lobbies. I really hate sitting in a dead lobby as someone else gets queues when they queued 10m after I did. -
11-25-2015, 06:21 AMTheWaywardWindRemoving the GC restriction still wouldn't fix this problem, though; you guys are looking at this too one-sidedly. Removing the GC restrictions is not a magical fix-it-all for PvP.Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoTree
Would it help in reducing queue times? Absolutely.
Would it help in restoring life into the other two game modes? lolno.
They need to bring the modes up to date and find some means of letting each one cycle through each week. Even if they removed the GC restrictions, Secure and Slaughter would still be dead modes. This is what I'm getting at. -
11-25-2015, 10:04 AMPotatoTreeReducing queue times would help immensely. The reason me and my buddies don't queue is because the queue times are just too long.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind
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11-25-2015, 10:09 AMBeckett
Since 3.1 hit there's barely been enough people to run 24-man Seize, and I haven't even seen a 72-man Seize since the patch. Even if they made Secure or Slaughter level 60, we'd get maybe a week of people queuing up for those modes and then PVP would be dead again. In fact it would probably be worse then ever, since we'd have half the people queuing for Seize and half for Secure.
PVP needs to be fundamentally fixed/improved before they can worry about anything else. There needs to be incentives to do PVP beyond a little bit of glamour gear. We need more rewards and a bigger variety of rewards. The biggest issue with the queue times now isn't that the system is flawed (although it probably still is), but the fact that no one wants to do PVP. Outside of a very small core group of dedicated PVPers, no one is going to go into any PVP mode until SE gives them a reason to do so. -
11-25-2015, 11:30 AMTheWaywardWindIt would not. There is no reason to say that people would queue for secure and slaughter just because they remove GC restriction. That is a big logical leap.Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoTree
People would almost undoubtedly continue to queue for seize. 72 man secure and slaughter would continue to cease to exist. -
11-25-2015, 11:31 AMTheWaywardWindThis is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckett
I can't speak for your data center but I still get 72 man seize games pretty regularly. -
11-25-2015, 03:20 PMBeckettOn Aether it's all 24-man, all the time. It used to be you'd get one, maybe two 24-man's late at night before the queues went into infinity, and 72-man matches the rest of the time. Since the patch it's been only 24-man matches, even during peak hours and weekends.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind
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11-25-2015, 05:13 PMPotatoTreeIt would obviously need more help than just GC restriction removal. Without a GC restriction removal, you're splitting the player base into 9 lobbies (3 for each game mode) which is unsustainable and people will flock to the one that queues fastest. So unless you're doing something like a weekly/daily swap in what mode can be queued, then GC restrictions will not be the silver bullet. Otherwise, I think it is an essential first step.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind
On that note, they need to look at what other games are doing to promote play. For example, double XP weekends, or a weekend where if you win however many matches you get some minion reward or something.
Actually, what they really need is a PvP guy. They have a raid guy, a music guy, housing guy, even a minion group. Where's the PvP lead? -
11-25-2015, 06:31 PMGuesswhatAll PvP is pretty much dead in this game. All PvP modes had short a short life. The long queue times, even when the modes were relatively new, certainly did not help. Improve queue times and the mode lives longer. Removing GC restrictions now may not help reviving Secure, but had those restrictions never been there in the 1st place maybe Secure would still be alive. Almost all I talk to in my FC/friendlist lost interest with PvP 'cause of the queue times.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind
Improving queues should be pri number 1 before they release a new mode and kill seize.
To make Secure popular again, I guess they would have to make it more appealing for daily/vanity/mount farmers. Perhaps add some sort of daily/weekly tournaments to PvP (ie claim a prize from a npc based on daily wins)? One reason I can think of why they haven't increased the level cap is for players who do not have the expansion. And perhaps they see adding a lvl 60 secure/slaughter mode as redundant -
11-26-2015, 12:15 AMUlricCraftThis is massively important.Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoTree
I only queue for Roulette now because the queues tend to be better.
If they included WD in the PVP roulette I'd be chuffed to bits.
The reason the queues for newer PVP modes are better is because of the mentality "It's a new mode, more people are going to try it out, therefore more games! I'll queue for that!"
Not because it's better or worse.
Best PVP mode:
WD > Slaughter > Secure > Capture the Flag
Best queues:
Capture the Flag > Slaughter > Secure > WD -
11-26-2015, 10:11 AMTheWaywardWindThat, of course, is your opinion. And yes, that is what I've been stating before, and why removing GC restrictions isn't going to magically revive Secure and Slaughter; that mindset is still present. There needs to be a way to breathe life into them, aside from trying to remove GC restrictions.Quote:
Originally Posted by UlricCraft
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guesswhat
Which is exactly what I stated that in the OP; it's not a perfect solution and unless Square purposely devotes more time and resources into it, PvP will never truly be fixed, but at least this would allow other players to enjoy each of the 72 man modes a week. Don't like Seize? Slaughter 72 man next week. Don't like that? Secure follows the next week. So on and so forth.Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoTree
I don't really see a problem with this solution, honestly. -
11-26-2015, 07:54 PMGuesswhatI don't think people believe removing GC restrictions will revive Secure/Slaughter. That is not the point I was making at least. GC restrictions amplifies Q times exponentially over time thus kills every mode long before new content is released. People want it gone for shorter queues, not to revive older modes. I would rather see SE focus on getting the queues down as fast as possible before they try and revive dead content. But if the solution helps revive the older modes that would be awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind
Additionally, to keep a mode fresh over time, SE have to make new tweaks to them every now and then (which they don't). As long as queues sucks people will lose interest fast. Which mean SE have to constantly come up with new tweaks for every mode to keep them alive. If they "fix" the queues, keeping modes alive is much easier. -
11-27-2015, 05:45 AMDotsusamaThe problem is that if one mode is inherently more popular with players than another, except those who end up in there because of the Roulette, you're only going to see those players queue up during those time periods -- if they are able to play at all during that specific week. I'd hate to miss any sort of bonus on a particular game mode just because of a holiday, or the internet drops, or I have finals, or I'm on vacation...Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind
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11-27-2015, 06:09 AMIagainsti
I concur, please update at least 72 man secure to lvl 60
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11-27-2015, 04:04 PMTheWaywardWindWe aren't talking a bonus of something that wouldn't normally be obtainable otherwise -- I'm talking a few extra esos or wolf marks - not something that you would never be able to obtain again. Even if you were gone, you'd still be able to obtain those by means, and if not, you weren't going to obtain them anyway, so it should make no difference to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotsusama
Besides, "I'm not going to be online, so nobody else should have it," isn't exactly a fair argument in itself.
Other than that, that's not inherently true - there's nothing saying that some people just flat out won't PvP for a few weeks because they don't like a specific roulette. -
11-28-2015, 04:55 AMEdgyLatinNamePreach it brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind
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11-28-2015, 06:10 AMDotsusamaI wasn't saying that; I'm just saying I would miss out, and would probably come to resent the bonus if I did miss out. I'm also trying to say it wouldn't be enough of a motivator to get people to actually play that mode at all. They would just stick with what they like.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind
On the flip side, there is some resentment that PVP gives PVE rewards at all -- such as Esoterics. How many times have we been in a match and criticized a player for not contributing, only to get something back like "only here for the esos lol"? I don't think having people who are only in for the bonuses would make it very fun. -
11-28-2015, 08:30 AMTheWaywardWindThat's a shame for you, but still not enough of a reason to not include it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotsusama
Examine why most of the people PvP for the reasons they do; a lot of it is for the Esoterics and PvP EXP for leveling their ranks, so providing an increase in that amount would serve to make people want to different modes, yes. Many hardcore PvPers would enjoy the rotation through the modes rather than just the same one for months at a time. It would be more than enough of a motivator.
The last point is mute, because it's been going on ever since the Roulette has been added to begin with. Those players will exist regardless of whether or not the bonus is still there, so we might as well take advantage of that fact and use that to our advantage. If you're going to criticize a rotation or bonus because of eso farmers, then the Roulette should be abolished as well, but we would never do that, because the Roulette breathes life into PvP. You take the good with the bad. -
11-29-2015, 11:28 AMFebrusThis alone would do wonders. We already have a broken Roulette that only ques us for 1 of 3 possible game modes (and takes way too long to do it). Might as well boost the item level of these two modes and give us more variety. Most people don't start to PvP until they get to end-game anyway, since before that they're focused on leveling up, questing, and doing dungeons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iagainsti
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12-01-2015, 04:53 AMIagainstiExactly, no one at lvl 50-59 is queueing for frontlines with all the other roulette choices, but I'm sure a lot of us would prefer a 72 Man secure match change up from 72 man Seize.Quote:
Originally Posted by Februs
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12-02-2015, 05:21 AMSangheliosYou have to concern here that you dont only just need 8 players for a wolfs den match. Actually the chance that you can get 2 tanks, 2 heals, 2 range and 2 melees out of a already extremely small player pool who queues at the same time is already really low (Especially the healer part). Then you have to concern that the wolfs den system sorts groups by their ranks, and in case your group is ready, but 10 ranks at average higher than the other team (wich is also ready), then the system says nonono cant do that. On top of that, language settings also doing their job here to make the player pool smaller. So you probably need already 20-30 players in queue to get a single 4vs4 match to pop (in an appropriate amount of time).Quote:
Originally Posted by Guesswhat
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12-02-2015, 06:36 AMGuesswhatExactly, you need a whooping number of 30+ players to queue at the relative same time. omg O_o !! Does that not show the general lack of interest in PvP in this game? I know of all the restrictions on wolves den...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanghelios
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12-02-2015, 07:01 AMTheWaywardWindI feel like it's also in part that Frontlines are generally more accessible to the casual PvPer than the intensity of WD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guesswhat
WD has specific set-ups and strategies that make it more for hardcore PvPers whereas Frontlines is a lot more casual because it involves so many people, and singular actions do not mean as much in the grand scheme of things, which takes a lot of the pressure off.
But in a 4v4 match? Yeah, a lot of people probably get dissuaded from trying it out. -
12-02-2015, 12:05 PMSynestraOh dear god! Slaughter is worst PvP mode ever made and lvl60 WD would be so unbalanced due burst some jobs got in HW that it just makes it mini-slaughter instead competitive mode. Seize and Secure are only modes atm that involves some kind of player skill when it comes to PvP in FF, and that comes from objective play combined with proper PK:ing only downside in seize is that one player alone cant really carry a whole alliance but in secure it was possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by UlricCraft
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12-02-2015, 05:53 PMGuesswhatI actually find slaughter fun. It's an unbalanced meteor-spam fest, sure, but sometimes chaos is fun. To be honest though, 72 slaughter is the worst mode. However, 24 is ok imo. I actually prefer 24 slaughter over 24 seize in many cases; it depends on the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synestra
72 Secure still the best. Seize is close but is often ruined by yolo/noobs/dgaf players, which I find more detrimental to the rng factor. -
12-04-2015, 02:20 AMSangheliosYou cant say there is a lack of interest in pvp actually only because nobody is doing Wolfs Den. People arent playing Wolfs Den because lack of interest, they are not playing it because they hitting to many walls (Set Classes, Language options, Rank restrictions, Plenty different Wolfs Den game modes, afk withdraws) in order to get in at all. I know plenty of people wich would like to play Wolfs Den, but because of those walls they can expect queues around 1-2 hours or even longer and they dont want to waste that much time only for a fight wich doesnt last longer than a few minutes. Interest is there, but Square needs to flatten their walls to let people in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guesswhat