Best standard WAR opener as MT?

I've been doing ...

(pre-pull Infuriate > Unchained > Berserk) > Tomahawk > HS > IR > Maim > Brutal Swing > SE > HS > SS > BB > IB > Fracture (Pacification)

Typically it holds against anything minus a PLD critting RoH. Definitely higher damage than say Tomahawk > BB combo > BB combo, but the part up to the second HS is where aggro can be tricky against optimal BRD/PLD/DRG/BLM openers, which case I've been using Second Wind after SE for an aggro burst. Is there something that's more damage with possible other benefits?

Tomahawk>HS>Unchained>Maim>Zerk>SE>IR>HS>X-pot>SS>BB>HS>IB>MAIM>SE>Fracture

is what i do

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Originally Posted by Gildarts

Tomahawk>HS>Unchained>Maim>Zerk>SE>IR>HS>X-pot>SS>BB>HS>IB>MAIM>SE>Fracture

is what i do

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I find in a raid scenario doing both an unbuffed Tomahawk and going directly into SE combo will result in a likely aggro loss to a certain chunk of the cast, but then again my WAR is slightly less geared than who I play with.

Bloodbath+unchained-tomahawk-heavy swing-brutal swing-skull sunder-barseker-butcher block-internal release-heavy swing-maim-s. Path or eye(depending on situation and if a ninja applied his debuff)-butcher combo-fracture. During the butchers i usualy do inner beast.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

I find in a raid scenario doing both an unbuffed Tomahawk and going directly into SE combo will result in a likely aggro loss to a certain chunk of the cast, but then again my WAR is slightly less geared than who I play with.

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tbh never had problem with it at all

I like to:
Tomahawk > BB combo > Foresight> HS > Bloodbath > Maim > Vengeance > SE > Unchained > HS > Berserk > SS > IR > BB > BB combo > IB > Infuriate > IB > Brutal Swing (if it isn't needed elsewhere) > Fracture > Pacification

I can usually coast after that and focus on dps or debuffing. Sometimes i get double IB crits and it makes me fuzzy. :D

I am probably the laziest war ever,
my opener generally depends on who i am playing with ( for example my brd friend is just as lazy as i and dosnt always pop quelling. )

Infuriate > Tamahawk > unchained > HS > Berserk > SS > IR > BB > Blood bath just because i can> BB combo till pacified.
and by then im so far ahead that i can start caring about my buffs and debuffs, or just take a nap.

Not optimal in any way =P

infuriate > unchained > berserk > tomahawk > BB rotation.
pop some off gcd cooldowns in between BB rotation, internal release, brutal swing, etc.

with 1 BB rotation in it's really reaally reaaalllly difficult to lose initial aggro.
after which you can do whatever you like..

You guys really miss out if you unchained/zerk before you get into the pull and don't get up maim around the same time you zerk.

Infuriate->Tomahawk -> HS ->Unchained -> Maim -> Zerk -> SE -> 2x BB rotation -> IB -> pacified.
I tend to brutal swing right before I heavy swing in the GCD of Tomahawk and Pop internal release before my first skull sunder.
That's two fully buffed BB combos, no one catches up.

The only time I have hate issues opening with SE is a tank does his hate combo in before SE somewhere. Sometimes Ninjas can be scary but they don't tend to pull. If I'm worried that might happen I tomahawk -> BB combo then do the SE+unchained+zerk rotation after that. Or you could go BB->SE->BB with the buffs in the first BB...but it feels inefficient.

Overwhelm is less TP and more emnity when compared to tomahawk.

Overwelm > brutal swing > Heavy swing

meh. using buffs before you engage the target? what a waste. you lose precious seconds on your buff. plus even something like Infuriate induces a small amount of enmity. using both unchained+berserk before even applying Maim seems like a waste too.

i just throw a tomahawk and put in a BB combo. then use Storm's Path/Eye combo for a Maim buff and enemy debuff. continue back with BB combo. you should have 5 stacks before you finish Butchers Block. so on Skull Sunder you activate unchained+berserk. you do unchained first, because berserk gives a stack of wrath. then immediately finish your combo with Butcher's Block. now you have two stacks of wrath. don't bother with Infuriate at this moment, or anything else. just spam your butcher's block combo until the end. if you have time before being pacified add Fracture. but you normally only have JUST enough time finish out the last action in your combo. finishing the combo is more important then Fracture. so instead what i do is slot Flash and use it twice while pacified.

in any case, to each their own.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Overwhelm is less TP and more emnity when compared to tomahawk.

Overwelm > brutal swing > Heavy swing

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overpower 120 potency and cost 130 and tomahawk is 130 potency and cost 120

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Originally Posted by Gildarts

overpower 120 potency and cost 130 and tomahawk is 130 potency and cost 120

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Not in game but overpower should be 100 tp and has a large emnity bonus.

http://i62.tinypic.com/2wq8xat.jpg

its less potency and cost 10 more TP . both got increased enmity effect "about that not sure if there is difference in that between the two tbh"

Overpower is more initial threat, shorter range (the enmity modifier on OP is larger than Tomahawk, outweighing the potency difference, iirc). Pulling with either works since it's unlikely you'll be losing hate that early. A larger cushion is nice, though.

Anyway, the best opener is:

Infuriate -> Tomahawk/OP -> Brutal Swing -> Heavy Swing -> Unchained -> Maim -> Zerk -> Storm's Eye -> Internal Release -> HS -> SS -> BB -> Fracture -> HS -> IB -> Maim -> Storm's Eye -> Pacified

You should always be getting all of your buffs up first (Unchained + Zerk + IR + Maim + SE), then using BB to generate massive threat, IB for the mitigation/damage/threat, then reapplying SE before you get pacified. Fracture is only used if you have enough SS, but the 9 hits is the primary reason to reach the break point. You should never lose threat starting with SE (and buffs. no buffs = less threat = ya might get yoinked) unless you are severely outgeared, even with full VIT accessories.

After that point you can alternate between SE and SP, or use SE -> BB. Save Zerk to pair with Unchained unless you're out of Defiance when Zerk comes up. IR on CD. Keep Maim and SE up at all times. There ya go, WAR in a nutshell.

Tomahawk is x3
Overpower is x5

Pretty much only use tomahawk if you need the extra range or are single targeting a mob in a pack.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Overpower is more initial threat, shorter range (the enmity modifier on OP is larger than Tomahawk, outweighing the potency difference, iirc). Pulling with either works since it's unlikely you'll be losing hate that early. A larger cushion is nice, though.

Anyway, the best opener is:

Infuriate -> Tomahawk/OP -> Brutal Swing -> Heavy Swing -> Unchained -> Maim -> Zerk -> Storm's Eye -> Internal Release -> HS -> SS -> BB -> Fracture -> HS -> IB -> Maim -> Storm's Eye -> Pacified

You should always be getting all of your buffs up first (Unchained + Zerk + IR + Maim + SE), then using BB to generate massive threat, IB for the mitigation/damage/threat, then reapplying SE before you get pacified. Fracture is only used if you have enough SS, but the 9 hits is the primary reason to reach the break point. You should never lose threat starting with SE (and buffs. no buffs = less threat = ya might get yoinked) unless you are severely outgeared, even with full VIT accessories.

After that point you can alternate between SE and SP, or use SE -> BB. Save Zerk to pair with Unchained unless you're out of Defiance when Zerk comes up. IR on CD. Keep Maim and SE up at all times. There ya go, WAR in a nutshell.

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This, however I'd make a slight adjustment to the opener like this.

Infuriate -> Tomahawk/OP -> Brutal Swing -> Heavy Swing -> Unchained -> Maim -> Zerk -> Storm's Eye -> Internal Release -> HS -> SS -> BB -> Fracture -> HS -> Brutal Swing -> IB -> Maim -> Storm's Eye -> Pacified

Adding in the second Brutal Swing which chains into Inner Beast. (Brutal Swing is off GCD so skill speed wont matter there)

Also as Spooky said, to do this you would need enough Skill Speed, around 420/423 (Forget the exact amount) or so. Without that much you wont be able to fit in the last Storm's Eye, so you could either do that he said and cut out Fracture, or just deal with not being able to fit in that last Storm's Eye and wait until the pacification is up to finish it. It isn't really that big a deal, and sometimes it may be more worth fitting in that Fracture instead of the last storms due to Unchained still being up, and Fracture actually being worth using as the MT while unchained is up.

The pacify doesn't break your combo, and doesn't last long enough to make your combo expire, so it's really however you'd like to do it.

For the people suggesting Storm's Eye Combo before BB combo: Are your DPS not attacking the boss? I find it hard to believe you wouldn't lose threat unless you grossly out gear the DPS or the DPS are just bad at their class.

I do: Infuriate->Tomahawk->Brutal Swing->Heavy Swing->Unchained->Skull Sunder->Berserk->Butchers Block->Internal Release->Heavy Swing->Maim->Storm's Eye (or Path)->Inner Beast.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

Also as Spooky said, to do this you would need enough Skill Speed, around 420/423 (Forget the exact amount) or so.

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you only need about 390 SS for 9hit zerk, 420+ just make it easier and give you room for error

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

For the people suggesting Storm's Eye Combo before BB combo: Are your DPS not attacking the boss? I find it hard to believe you wouldn't lose threat unless you grossly out gear the DPS or the DPS are just bad at their class.

I do: Infuriate->Tomahawk->Brutal Swing->Heavy Swing->Unchained->Skull Sunder->Berserk->Butchers Block->Internal Release->Heavy Swing->Maim->Storm's Eye (or Path)->Inner Beast.

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No it's not a matter of dps being bad. With enough gear it's perfectly viable to start with storms eye. As u only need to be in front of every one. Doesn't matter how much and after the eye u do ur butchers block combo which puts u massively in front. If ur unsure about holding hate at first then using butchers block combo is viable, but when looking for the optimal opener it's with storms eye first.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

For the people suggesting Storm's Eye Combo before BB combo: Are your DPS not attacking the boss? I find it hard to believe you wouldn't lose threat unless you grossly out gear the DPS or the DPS are just bad at their class.

I do: Infuriate->Tomahawk->Brutal Swing->Heavy Swing->Unchained->Skull Sunder->Berserk->Butchers Block->Internal Release->Heavy Swing->Maim->Storm's Eye (or Path)->Inner Beast.

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the only times people have come close to ripping hate is when i experience bag lag spikes (which has been happening quite often : (((). and/or a PLD OT on Sword spamming combos and NINs maybe come close cause whatever their openers are can be very strong sometimes. though, still, with good enough gear, the damage you do with Storm's Eye should be enough to hold hate from anyone, and once you get your first BB combo off with all those buffs / debuffs up, you'll be miles ahead of everyone.

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Originally Posted by nothingtoregret

No it's not a matter of dps being bad. With enough gear it's perfectly viable to start with storms eye. As u only need to be in front of every one. Doesn't matter how much and after the eye u do ur butchers block combo which puts u massively in front. If ur unsure about holding hate at first then using butchers block combo is viable, but when looking for the optimal opener it's with storms eye first.

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With enough gear, as in you are out gearing your DPS? Yea you can do that. If the DPS are in gear comparable to you then you will either lose threat or the DPS will have to interrupt their rotation so they don't pull.

How is Storm's Eye an optimal opener to Butcher's Block? What exactly are we optimizing?

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

With enough gear, as in you are out gearing your DPS? Yea you can do that. If the DPS are in gear comparable to you then you will either lose threat or the DPS will have to interrupt their rotation so they don't pull.

How is Storm's Eye an optimal opener to Butcher's Block? What exactly are we optimizing?

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Assuming you're doing the opener I mentioned, your buffs are what keep you from losing threat. Your DPS can easily spike to 500 with that opener, if another DPS tears off of you they have to be going in hard while at the same time, out gearing you hard. By the time anyone ever comes close to taking threat, skull sunder alone takes it all back before they even get a chance to pull.

Your enmity generating skills aren't the only skills that generate threat.

Hmm, an interesting topic, unlike most threads on this board.. Let's see if can keep it going. =)

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How is Storm's Eye an optimal opener to Butcher's Block? What exactly are we optimizing?

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"Optimal" = maximizing both enmity and damage. Measured as a total at end of "opener" sequence. Requirement during sequence that it constantly maintain more enmity than high damage opening sequences of other classes of equivalent gear level.

Sounds like people have been following that already, more or less, so I just try to articulate it a bit.

Now 2 interesting points I heard already:
A) First combo SE vs. BB: If assume that both are going to be in your opener anyway, then obviously SE->BB will be higher total enmity AND damage due to maim and SE buffing the BB combo ... IF AND ONLY IF the sequence reliably stays ahead of DPS enmity. To me, the last part is a question mark: worth it if can make it work, but I'm not sold yet.
B) Overpower vs. Tomahawk to start: A previous poster mentioned 5x and 3x enmity multipliers -- I'd like to see a source on that. Regardless though, every measurement I've seen and my own experience say that Overpower is a considerably higher enmity multiplier than Tomahawk.
The drawback of Overpower is the shorter range. Assuming Tomahawk used at max range, that means that your next weaponskill (Heavy Swing probably) comes "later" in relation to your being in melee range. Like, you Overpower, then enemy comes to you, then you wait for GCD. With Tomahawk, more or all of the GCD is spent in the enemy coming to you. So, while Overpower is clearly the higher enmity ability, the ~1 sec time difference makes the comparison result unclear in my mind.

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Originally Posted by RhazeCain

Hmm, an interesting topic, unlike most threads on this board.. Let's see if can keep it going. =)

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Thank you for clarifying.

On your points:

A) I am with you on the not being sold part. The bonus from Defiance isn't going to generate enough threat on your Maim and Storm's Eye, even with Unchained and Berserk. A DPS in comparable, or better, gear will rip threat if they are using cooldowns and maximizing their DPS. However, DPS aside what about the Paladin with Fight or Flight doing RoH? Even in Sword Oath RoH generates an appreciable amount of threat.

B) I agree just from the numbers that Overpower is the winner in the enmity department. However, as you mentioned I just assume use Tomahawk as my GCD finish around when I get into range for my Heavy Swing.

In testing the SE combo first, no pre-buff openers, I can't keep hate off of roughly equally geared BRD/BLM until the BB, losing hate around the time of SE and not getting it back for a few GCDs. Against a STR Sword Oath PLD there's just no way, the PLD will be tanking until BB. Period. It definitely looks to be about max sustained aggro and damage but I gotta agree with the two above me, it doesn't have me convinced from what I tried of it. Even Unchained + Berserk Tomahawk > SE combo can get hairy on threat and that's with a super charged Tomahawk to carry the aggro.

Would be great for PUGs though, who aren't doing 100% of a class's capabilities.

I Infuriate>tomahawk (unchained)>HS(berserk)>skull sunder (internal release)>butcher's block.

Anything else that follows it would be situational. In Titan EX I'd probably pop SP afterward follows immediately by IB to mitigate the first mountain buster. I think I fit in two more gcd before pacification kicks in. So that's going to be Fracture (I know I know) and Heavy Swing or something.

I'm still learning but I don't feel comfortable not opening with BB combo.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

A

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People seem to know Xeno on these forums, so I'll just share this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EesAvfgSmtA (this is with Ruby accessories, but note the lead he has)

The aggro you generate will not be overshot by a DPS, even with a gear disparity. Back in 2.3, I had a friend who was HA + Sold geared with an i110 weapon (from 2.2), meanwhile I had a i90 Bravura Zenith and an NQ Noct Chest from the start of 2.2 (skipped that patch almost entirely). I never lost hate to him with my opener, and he didn't even use Quelling. If you're against the idea or think it sounds too good to be true, you can always test it yourself. Ditto's correction of the rotation I posted is the one you should be trying out as it will generate the most threat, though if you're super paranoid you can pre-pop Unchained to go with your Tomahawk/OP, or directly after it in place of Brutal Swing and move Brutal Swing to after Heavy Swing.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

B

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Either is fine, sometimes pulling with OP can be risky if Foes is up as you have to go past the aggro range of the enemy to use OP vs Tomahawk which can be used as soon as you enter aggro range.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

tests

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With no offensive buffs, you will definitely lose hate unless you outgear the DPS by quite a bit or are wearing full i110/i120/i130 STR accessories (even then it's pretty risky). With buffs, you won't lose hate unless THEY outgear you by... a really, really, reaaaally large margin. If you want to run another test, use Ditto's rotation and see if you lose aggro. If you don't, opening with SE is optimal. If you do, then opening with BB is optimal. I've personally never lost hate with that rotation against even the most balls to the wall DPS, but I'd love to see more people trying it out and seeing if it works for them.

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Originally Posted by Thistledown

wurds

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If you want to avoid only having 2 GCDs after using 2 combos and an IB, use your CDs like this:

Infuriate -> Tomahawk -> Brutal Swing -> HS -> Unchained -> X -> Zerk -> X -> IR -> 2nd combo -> IB -> 3rd combo. Also Brutal Swing whenever it's off CD.

With enough SS (390+) you can fit in a Fracture before the IB, but if you're not worried about that just make sure you Zerk after the 2nd hit of your combo, that way you can fit in 3 + 1 IB.

To be honost, opening with a combo to get storm's eye up is a really bad idea in Final Coil unless you tell your DPS to hold out for a bit.

as a Warrior currently progressing on T13 and surrounded by great dps players with i130 weapons this doesn't fly. Ofcourse getting the most out of your dps and rotation is great but we are there to tank and let the real dpsers pull the numbers. When you've established enough enmity then worry about your optimal rotation.

Don't forget about those cooldowns and weaving em through your skills.

The only good way to zerk w/o the risk of dps or ot will steal aggro at opening is begin with a tomahawak+BB combo. Then build dps and increase aggro with the zerk tactic:
Tomahawk-BB combo->SE combo(with unchained bfore of SS and barserk bfore of s.eye)->x2 BB combo.
I can say no matter what u do if u start with a SE combo all group will steal aggro.
Xeno is a gr8 war but still his dps w8 to bust dps wen he start. Mine do not w8. If u play with pugs or with dps that busrt theyr dps at start u better do a BB combo.
Say to ur dps to w8 coz u need to maximize ur dps as tank is soo orible and nosense idea.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Snip

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Thanks for the link and the info.

From watching that video I could tell that the Paladin was delaying his Rage of Halone combo. While I can't see what the DPS are doing specifically, I'd have to only guess they are also holding back DPS to allow aggro to be locked in with Skull Sunder. I'm mostly basing this off the fact that the threat in my raid spikes up a hell of a lot faster in my raid during those first few GCDs. While I won't argue that speccing DPS accessories and 30 Strength on your Warrior can boast some very nice numbers, it's questionable to say that doing this opening is optimal if it means your DPS have to hold back for 2 extra GCDs so that you can squeeze out a slightly more optimal DPS rotation. I did watch some of Xeno's guide (I plan to finish when I get a chance) and it is clearly a very well thought out Warrior build, but to advertise that as a standard build/opener is very dubious.

But the more curious question is what would the effect be on your overall DPS for a fight between doing SE>BB and a BB>SE opener. It was mentioned by a poster that you spike 500 DPS, but who cares what you spike. At the end of the day your overall DPS for the instance is what really matters and I'd venture to guess that the order of your opener isn't going to effect your DPS that much in 12+ minute FCoB fight. If you have an actual comparison though, I'd really be interested to see.

More damage in opener with buffs = More DPS overall. Thus, SE -> BB is optimal damage. SE->BB->BB generates more overall enmity than BB->SE->BB due to both BBs being buffed by Maim and SE, whereas only one of them is buffed for the second. If you don't lose hate starting with SE, SE is optimal. If you do, use BB. It doesn't really matter, I don't honestly care enough to continue this. I'd just like to recommend people try SE first with buffs and if they aren't losing aggro to use it, as it is the better option as long as you meet that one stipulation. A PLD holding back one RoH so that a WAR can get a larger enmity threshold to rotate SE -> SP more often is something I think is fine. I don't know what "burst" DPS people are losing aggro to, but I'd be more than happy to hear what the rotation is for the DPS that's pulling. I have a feeling Quelling Strikes isn't involved, but if it is then I'm all ears.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

Thanks for the link and the info.

From watching that video I could tell that the Paladin was delaying his Rage of Halone combo. While I can't see what the DPS are doing specifically, I'd have to only guess they are also holding back DPS to allow aggro to be locked in with Skull Sunder. I'm mostly basing this off the fact that the threat in my raid spikes up a hell of a lot faster in my raid during those first few GCDs. While I won't argue that speccing DPS accessories and 30 Strength on your Warrior can boast some very nice numbers, it's questionable to say that doing this opening is optimal if it means your DPS have to hold back for 2 extra GCDs so that you can squeeze out a slightly more optimal DPS rotation. I did watch some of Xeno's guide (I plan to finish when I get a chance) and it is clearly a very well thought out Warrior build, but to advertise that as a standard build/opener is very dubious.

But the more curious question is what would the effect be on your overall DPS for a fight between doing SE>BB and a BB>SE opener. It was mentioned by a poster that you spike 500 DPS, but who cares what you spike. At the end of the day your overall DPS for the instance is what really matters and I'd venture to guess that the order of your opener isn't going to effect your DPS that much in 12+ minute FCoB fight. If you have an actual comparison though, I'd really be interested to see.

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I have never once lost aggro with that opener, even against DPS that are ridiculously geared. (A Nexus Bard using an potion even. They come close, but not close enough to take the mob from me before skulls under happens)

And the spike damage does matter on the initial pull, where as even you yourself said, damage from everyone can spike up really fast on those first few GCD's. Spike damage from a Tank, a Warrior nonetheless can generate enough aggro to maintain threat without needing to butchers block immediately. That spike damage from the opener isn't just from the first few GCD's, mind you.

The increased enmity from your first skill be it tomahawk or overpower, on top of that damage you'll be doing throughout the opener, you should not be losing aggro. If you are, you're lacking in something compared to the rest of the group.

But really, just do whatever you're comfortable with yourself, same with everyone else. If BB'ing Before storms is how you prefer it, then do it, so long as you're managing to keep the boss on you it's fine. That opener is more of an advanced opener, and you have to really know what you're doing when you're doing it, so it isn't for everyone.

I usually do infuriate > tomahawk > heavy swing > skull sunder > butchers block (to establish some agro) > heavy swing > Maim > unchained > internal release > storms eye > berserk (this is when i begin pull away. Can even grab hate off a paladin without provoke and be miles ahead of them in hate) > heavy swing > skull sunder > butchers block > fracture > heavy swing > skull sunder > butcher block and inner beast to finish.

Your aggro would be about at 100% obviously but people with 125 weapons, their agro bars will be at like 5% lol the paladin will probably be at 40-50% if they are in shield of oath.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

If you are, you're lacking in something compared to the rest of the group

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Do you use Tanking Accessories, DPS Accessories or i90 Ruby? Are you 30 in Strength or 30 in Vitality?

It's a little pretentious to say that it's an advanced opener. There isn't really a whole lot you can screw up on a rotation and the rotation isn't the only variable present here, hence why I'm trying to get a little more information on whether it works with full vitality gear. After all, enmity generation scales with strength.

Edit: I just had one of the DPS from the static I'm in do their normal open on a dummy doing the SE>BB opening, they didn't use Quelling Strikes, both of us were in comparable ilvl gear (his slightly higher), and I was in standard tank gear with 30 Vitality and they weren't even half my threat. I stand corrected.

here is a rotation that don't boost agro but optimize the damage but i don't often have loosing agro problem even by using this, depending the situation and the fight off course, don't do that on T9 as main tank XD where you have to keep you alive by doing inner beast when you have to.

But it's steel good to many fight
Toma hawk, Butcher combo, blood bath, fracture, then storm eyes combo (or the other to get less damage), another butcher combo, i have the stacks, then i do unchained, internal release, fracture, bersek, storm eyes combo, storm eyes combo again, i have the stack then i use inner beast, influrate, inner beast, pacification
(btw when you are dpsing the same boss a other tank is MT, doing exactly that but replace all the butcher combo, by storm eyes combo)
and why ? storm eyes and inner beast is the most damaging skill of the war, also never burst without defiance even if you are dpsing as off tank

btw on the discussion below you can realy take the advantage of have dps ring or i90 ruby +force melded by doing that
also i think even i love play in force with my war, butcher combo still the first thing to do after a pull

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

Do you use Tanking Accessories, DPS Accessories or i90 Ruby? Are you 30 in Strength or 30 in Vitality?

It's a little pretentious to say that it's an advanced opener. There isn't really a whole lot you can screw up on a rotation and the rotation isn't the only variable present here, hence why I'm trying to get a little more information on whether it works with full vitality gear. After all, enmity generation scales with strength.

Edit: I just had one of the DPS from the static I'm in do their normal open on a dummy doing the SE>BB opening, they didn't use Quelling Strikes, both of us were in comparable ilvl gear (his slightly higher), and I was in standard tank gear with 30 Vitality and they weren't even half my threat. I stand corrected.

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I cant afford those crafted Strength accessories, so I stick with the standard vitality stuff. I'm also 30 Vit.

Also, I call it advanced because it's as advanced as weaving skills gets for a Warrior. You screw something up while doing it and it's possible you will lose aggro to someone. It can be used as more than just an opener as well, and be used throughout the whole fight every time unchained comes up as a burst. Even as the offtank during burn phases, though it'd probably be a good idea to swap our butchers block for a second storm, else you will probably rip off of the MT with that single butchers block.

Honestly I don't know if I'd even call it a 'rotation' at this point either, it's more of a burst opener.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

snip

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Well my most recent reference point is currently T12 picking up the adds. If I do anything less than a combo'd BB with at least Berserk and my DPS will rip aggro from me. And yea, it's very difficult to refer to anything a warrior does as a rotation, which is why I like it more than PLD. To be honest, I was really surprised how far ahead on the threat table I was. I had tried this opener back in maybe 2.1 or even before as there is obvious synergy in the skills, but I recall having aggro issues so just scrapped it as impractical.

If you spirit bind i70 and i90 gear yourself you can get the materia pretty cheap, but you'd need to be able to craft the spirit bond gear yourself for it to be practical. With the new i120/130 gear I was considering using a mix of DPS and Vit gear to get the same effect as the i90 crafted. The overall strength and vit gained I'd think would be higher, and a lot of the new Vit gear actually has Crit and Det on it. I need to actually get a spread sheet together to look at. My only concern is that I think on FCoB my healers would prefer a deeper health pool to some extra self heals and negligible parry reduction. However, I'm open to more insight on this if you have any.

your point is good here, with adds even on T7 i was doing a lot butcher, i even stack the rage and the 2 first skill of the butcher combo before the adds start to spawn, then i can pull directly with butcher, stun, inner beast, then a second butcher combo.
i din't got to have to use berserk on these, but i usualy stack skill and rage for adds spawn on coil.

DPS tend to burst directly these adds and healer tend also to heal when them spawn, you have to put a lot of aggro, it's not the same than pull a boss ^^

Still not see T12 to see if it's effective to do that way but i think it's the best way to pull a add (stack the combo and pull with butcher directly)

the use of the mix of the accesory can be good if your healer can heal, it's right, you need to test, if you die by using these you can switch accesories back, you need a lot of parry to have a better rate, if you have 500 it's still a good rate
when 110 craft accesories will be added it will be a better option, but 4 star craft is a pain, so expensive T_T

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

I've been doing ...

(pre-pull Infuriate > Unchained > Berserk) > Tomahawk > HS > IR > Maim > Brutal Swing > SE > HS > SS > BB > IB > Fracture (Pacification)

Typically it holds against anything minus a PLD critting RoH. Definitely higher damage than say Tomahawk > BB combo > BB combo, but the part up to the second HS is where aggro can be tricky against optimal BRD/PLD/DRG/BLM openers, which case I've been using Second Wind after SE for an aggro burst. Is there something that's more damage with possible other benefits?

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Hey Sleigh! A good standard opener would look something like this: Infuriate> Overpower/Tomahawk> Unchained> Heavy Swing> Blood Bath> Maim> Internal Release> Berserk> Storms Eye> Heavy Swing> Skull Sunder> Butcher's Block> Fracture> Heavy Swing> Inner Beast> Maim> Storm's Eye> Pacification Panda

Depending on your ping you may not be able to squeeze in "Internal Release" and "Berserk" back to back. So if thats the case just weave in "Internal Release" after Storm's Eye. Also Youll want to start with Overpower whenever possible or if you DPS severely out gear you just use an additional Overpower at the beginning of the combo so you wont have to worry about aggro issues.

I use this opener all the time with no issues of losing threat. Your pld co-tank should riot blade on the first combo then feel free to spam RoH the entire fight. If dps happen to pull by not using quelling let them die then laugh at them because that is dps being bad. Not you. It is not an Epeen contest with aggro. It it about the group as a whole maximizing their opener.

My dps go extremely hard right at the start of every fight, so I know this opener is solid and will not cause any aggro issues. Also a lot of people forget that activating Buffs also draws aggro and while it is minimal it does add up! However I will say this, and this is very important! Depending on you connection i would recommend a minimum of 410 Skill Speed to complete this opener without any issues. I usually have a bit more but 410 is a "safe" number if you cant get fully melded I90 ruby crafted :D