Has SE Addressed Stat Allocation on ACN Yet?

My main USED to be SMN. Like many, I unlocked SCH just for the lulz and to have another 50 job. Unfortunately, I ended up liking it ><. So much that I made it my main over my SMN so I switched my stats to MND. I don't want to retire my SMN entirely but I also don't want to play a gimped SMN, and -30 INT is a gimped SMN. I don't recall them addressing this problem, but maybe I missed it, hopefully one of you guys know.

10k seals to your grand company quartermaster will grant you a state re-allocation

Remember that SMN and SCH share stat attributes. So however you allocate your stats they'll be shared for both jobs.

I doubt they're going to do what you're asking for. They've already answered this question by saying that the tradeoff was fully intended, and that in the future other classes will have the same sorts of stat tradeoffs.

I solved the problem by putting my points in VIT and PIE... I know it's not ideal for either job, but I feel better not having to deal with having some bonus points be completely useless depending on which job I'm playing.

There's nothing to address. Stat points and soul crystal is our "speccing" in this game.

Kinda renders the whole "armory system" ideal pointless, though, doesn't it? This game is so relentlessly alt-unfriendly that I do not see any reason why this should be done, and certainly not forcing respecs to cost 10k seals.

Just remove attribute allocation entirely. It's pointless, there's no real choice or flexibility in the system and it only gives the illusion that we have some kind of input in our character's build. We don't. We have no input whatsoever. There are no talents to pick, the gear is all "higher numbers" without sidegrades/situational/spec-related pieces. There's zero opportunity for customization and personal playstyles in FFXIV, so why bother with this pointless attribute allocation stuff?

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Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Kinda renders the whole "armory system" ideal pointless, though, doesn't it? This game is so relentlessly alt-unfriendly that I do not see any reason why this should be done, and certainly not forcing respecs to cost 10k seals.

Just remove attribute allocation entirely. It's pointless, there's no real choice or flexibility in the system and it only gives the illusion that we have some kind of input in our character's build. We don't. We have no input whatsoever. There are no talents to pick, the gear is all "higher numbers" without sidegrades/situational/spec-related pieces. There's zero opportunity for customization and personal playstyles in FFXIV, so why bother with this pointless attribute allocation stuff?

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i constantly switch between STR PLD for pvp and ViT PLD For PVE. 10k seals are not that hard to come by.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

I solved the problem by putting my points in VIT and PIE... I know it's not ideal for either job, but I feel better not having to deal with having some bonus points be completely useless depending on which job I'm playing.

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That's what I did, simply because more hp and mana is more survivability. Say what you want but sch heal is not based on mind(it is more crit related than anything and overcuring is a mana drain although sch do not have so much of that problem as a whm) and smn 1 point of int is about 1 more damage so big deal. Again survivability > slightly better dps / base heal, also more hp and mana prevents a group dps drop, bard can play foe to boost your dps and not mages to cut theirs and more hp mean healers have to not worry so much about your hp and waste mana on it(the pie for the bigger pool also adds into more heals and if needed raises in battle and less of a need for a bard's mages). Sure someone will disagree, but from my PoV it is better to be more of a team player(stating stats that make sense and are against the "norm" than to go all out and say go full int on smn.)

Why is this game "alt-unfriendly" ? There is absolutely nothing preventing you to level up some alts. Nothing.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

Why is this game "alt-unfriendly" ? There is absolutely nothing preventing you to level up some alts. Nothing.

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Lockouts.

/10char

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Originally Posted by Karnage720

My main USED to be SMN. Like many, I unlocked SCH just for the lulz and to have another 50 job. Unfortunately, I ended up liking it ><. So much that I made it my main over my SMN so I switched my stats to MND. I don't want to retire my SMN entirely but I also don't want to play a gimped SMN, and -30 INT is a gimped SMN. I don't recall them addressing this problem, but maybe I missed it, hopefully one of you guys know.

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If you allocate PIE instead both SMN and SCH benefit. SMN needs more MP/MP regen to sustain 100% uptime on longer fights and/or to conserve up to 6 aethers (saving 3 + CD for another 3) for bursting DPS checks. SCH needs the same for longer fights it's just not for DPS checks. If the fight isn't that long then you "SHOULDN'T" have an issue with either job no matter how you spec.

I've seen snm with 4750 HP with mostly DL. It's not ideal, but you could put points into pie and vit and both jobs would benifit.

they should put some pie scaling on some of the arc abilities.

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Originally Posted by Akirakogami

they should put some pie scaling on some of the arc abilities.

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Why would an Archer want Piety?

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Why would an Archer want Piety?

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For longer songs. Obviously.
Lol.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

i constantly switch between STR PLD for pvp and ViT PLD For PVE. 10k seals are not that hard to come by.

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That only makes the Stat issue more evident: you aren't changing your stats because you have a hard tactical choice. You are changing them because you are changing your focus from PvE to PvP. It's akin to wearing heavy clothes when its winter and light clothes when its summer. The only choice given is: "Do you want to be bad at this or not?"
And that, sir, is not really a choice.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

Why is this game "alt-unfriendly" ? There is absolutely nothing preventing you to level up some alts. Nothing.

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This is like saying: "Why are deserts unfriendly to humans? There is absolutely nothing preventing you from travelling through it. Nothing!" Which is, sadly, to miss the point.

This game is alt-unfriendly because its systems were not made to benefit alts. They are allowed to exist, yes. The same way you can build a house in the dessert. But getting water and food to that house in the dessert is going to be quite problematic compared to, say, staying in your house in the forest.
We can start for the fact that you can't send gear to your alt characters unless you get a friend to do it for you (which is a needless chore) and you can't use mounts until level 20 which, no matter how fast you think levelling an alt to level 20 is, it will always be much slower than having your chocobo available since level 1 like your main character probably can. What's more: the more alts you have, the more time you have to spend levelling them all to 20 to unlock your mount. Time that, you know, you could be using on that single character to get to certain class levels faster.
And if you don't want the mounts you still have to level them up to 15 to unlock airship travel and dyes. The first you'll need to move your alt around and the second you'll need unless you want to look like an idiot with yellow pants, a green shirt and blue kitchen mitts.

So I should put 15 on vit/piety if I plan to play both jobs?

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

Lockouts.

/10char

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Pretty sure by Alt he meant level up different charactor not swapping to different Job on the same charactor.

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Originally Posted by Ildur

This game is alt-unfriendly because its systems were not made to benefit alts. They are allowed to exist, yes. The same way you can build a house in the dessert. But getting water and food to that house in the dessert is going to be quite problematic compared to, say, staying in your house in the forest.
We can start for the fact that you can't send gear to your alt characters unless you get a friend to do it for you (which is a needless chore) and you can't use mounts until level 20 which, no matter how fast you think levelling an alt to level 20 is, it will always be much slower than having your chocobo available since level 1 like your main character probably can. What's more: the more alts you have, the more time you have to spend levelling them all to 20 to unlock your mount. Time that, you know, you could be using on that single character to get to certain class levels faster.
And if you don't want the mounts you still have to level them up to 15 to unlock airship travel and dyes. The first you'll need to move your alt around and the second you'll need unless you want to look like an idiot with yellow pants, a green shirt and blue kitchen mitts.

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I'm not quite sure how "new characters have to unlock things" is really much of an argument for a game being especially alt unfriendly, it's pretty much standard fare: You're complaining about building any house at all at that point.

Listing the benefits of leveling a new class on the same character as a penalty for rolling an alt and deliberately omitting the benefits of having alts seems disingenuous too.

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Originally Posted by ValorSekari

So I should put 15 on vit/piety if I plan to play both jobs?

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That's what I did, and it works well. You get around 1 point of heal/damage per stat point in MND/INT, so the difference is actually minimal. Remember that in addition to increasing your MP pool, PIE also increases MP regen as well, which is pretty useful... In some situations (like PvP or Turn 5), 30 VIT is not a horrible idea either, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Remn

Pretty sure by Alt he meant level up different charactor not swapping to different Job on the same charactor.

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Making separate characters gets you around the lockouts, but has its own problems, the biggest of which in my estimation is the need for redundant leveling to unlock cross-class skills (and basic ones like mounts, airship, etc.). Ain't nobody got time for that (at least, it sounds horribly mind-numbing and wasteful to me).

Go all VIT. You will notice that many people have melded Accessories to up their VIT for turn 5 on both SMN and SCH. If you just pump those 30points into VIT like I did you can forget about the melded accessories and actually use healer or DPS accessories. ^^ VIT all the way.

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Originally Posted by Maku

Go all VIT. You will notice that many people have melded Accessories to up their VIT for turn 5 on both SMN and SCH. If you just pump those 30points into VIT like I did you can forget about the melded accessories and actually use healer or DPS accessories. ^^ VIT all the way.

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Rather than have vitality-melded accessories, what would you suggest if I were to go +30 vitality?

I tried doing this non-mind stat build.. but isnt it 870-905 healing compared to 925-960 with full mind is a bit low for coil specially for t5? or with 30 pie spamming cure will not be a problem? havent tried it using in dungeons but.... :O

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Originally Posted by ziDvna

I tried doing this non-mind stat build.. but isnt it 870-905 healing compared to 925-960 with full mind is a bit low for coil specially for t5? or with 30 pie spamming cure will not be a problem? havent tried it using in dungeons but.... :O

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I am curious about this as well

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Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Kinda renders the whole "armory system" ideal pointless, though, doesn't it? This game is so relentlessly alt-unfriendly that I do not see any reason why this should be done, and certainly not forcing respecs to cost 10k seals.

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This depends entirely on what you think the armoury system is about, doesn't it? Just because you can switch to all classes/jobs on the same character, doesn't mean you should be the very best at every class/job on the same character. Want to be the best on everything? Then you have other slots to make new characters that you can do that with. Whilst FFXIV =/= FFXI, in said game, which the armoury system is based on, you couldn't max out every job even though you could also switch to other ones. The benefit here is that you don't have to level up multiple characters and repeat content, unless you absolutely must/want to to maximise your game play in a given job.

And even in XI, where there was also stat allocation once you hit level 75, there was best places to put your stats. It wasn't pointless to have it, it just let you work out where you wanted your play style to focus into. They also applied to all jobs and not just a single one. This is pretty much always going to be the case where any person wants to max out the best in stats. Otherwise, you have all the choice in the world. The game does not prevent you putting points into STR for your BLM (only your own sense). The overall effect of the stat bonuses is only important in high end content.

With stat allocation between 2 Jobs in XIV, it's about deciding (y'know, actually giving some serious thought to what you want to do) where you want to put those stats. You can either improve a specific Job in a specific way, or you can improve both Jobs in a general way. And not putting INT into your SMN doesn't gimp that job, it just doesn't improve it. Stat points are a bonus not a forced part of the system.

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Originally Posted by beforethechasm

Rather than have vitality-melded accessories, what would you suggest if I were to go +30 vitality?

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Pets DO NOT benefit from Allocated Vitality, Party Bonus Vitality, Potion Vitality, NOR Food Vitality. The only Vitality Bonus that also benefits Pets is Gear Vitality.

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Originally Posted by beforethechasm

Rather than have vitality-melded accessories, what would you suggest if I were to go +30 vitality?

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Originally Posted by OmegaNovaios

Pets DO NOT benefit from Allocated Vitality, Party Bonus Vitality, Potion Vitality, NOR Food Vitality. The only Vitality Bonus that also benefits Pets is Gear Vitality.

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This is true Omega but when has your Pets HP EVER been an issue? SE made them not take damage from even more AoEs this last patch and they already took hardly any damage from anything. Heck it is common practice to put pets behind Twintania to have a place to run to to disperse FireBall damage. PET HP should never be something that you worry about enough to take VIT on Gear over something else.

What to take instead of VIT acc? Anything that has to do with healer. For SCH full Myth Acc along with the Allagan Ring of Healing is BiS IF you do not need the VIT Acc for the HP which you wont if you put your points into VIT. Not sure for WHM.

For SMN, aside from Tremor Earring and Vortext Ring the rest is Myth Acc again for the current BiS.

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Originally Posted by Themis

*words*

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When you have to choose between multiple totally pointless options and one actually useful option, there might as well be no choice at all.

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Originally Posted by Maku

This is true Omega but when has your Pets HP EVER been an issue? SE made them not take damage from even more AoEs this last patch and they already took hardly any damage from anything. Heck it is common practice to put pets behind Twintania to have a place to run to to disperse FireBall damage. PET HP should never be something that you worry about enough to take VIT on Gear over something else.

What to take instead of VIT acc? Anything that has to do with healer. For SCH full Myth Acc along with the Allagan Ring of Healing is BiS IF you do not need the VIT Acc for the HP which you wont if you put your points into VIT. Not sure for WHM.

For SMN, aside from Tremor Earring and Vortext Ring the rest is Myth Acc again for the current BiS.

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Pet's HP should never be an issue, the same as the player's HP should never be an issue. It is far easier to move your own character than to move your pet if either should be dodging attacks. Pet's are more likely to die than the character for this reason, but either way I don't recommend Allocating VIT neither for yourself nor your pet even if Allocated VIT did count for the pet unless you really wanted to have Titan-Egi tank. I wouldn't trade 30 INT/PIE for 30 VIT directly. The only time you MIGHT need more VIT for PVE is for Twintania's Fireball. If this is the case then it's fine to Allocate VIT UNTIL you pass the HP threshold you need in gear.

If you want more VIT then it's best to meld it to jewelry as opposed to using Allocated VIT since your pet benefits as well. Full i70 crafted can have 45 INT, 45 MND, 45 VIT and 30 PIE. This is a gain of 45 MND, 45 VIT, and 30 PIE at the loss of -20 INT over full i90. More VIT AND less of a loss in INT than Allocating 30 VIT instead of INT and/or PIE.

If your Allocating VIT I don't know what the point in going for BiS is when you care about HP so much yet pushing for DPS everywhere else. If you value HP the most then get HP in both Allocation and Gear. Doing only Allocation is the worst case scenario IMO.

If you you want BiS IMO full i70 crafted is better for SMN for the gains in PIE (able to sustain full DPS for longer and conserve more Aethers for bursting mechanics (which is going to secure more wins than +5% dps in unhindered environments)) and extra secondary stats which is better than 20 INT overall. A SMN will never have any issues in a non-hindered environment no matter whether he has BiS or not so it's best to gear for when it does. But if you want to stick to the non-crafted gear for BiS for your DPS then Allocating VIT seems silly since this will lower your DPS potential for PVE. For PVP then maybe Allocating VIT is good but again if you value HP then get it in every place you can.

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Originally Posted by OmegaNovaios

If you want more VIT then it's best to meld it to jewelry as opposed to using Allocated VIT since your pet benefits as well. Full i70 crafted can have 45 INT, 45 MND, 45 VIT and 30 PIE at the loss of -20 INT over full i90. More VIT AND less of a loss in INT than Allocating 30 VIT instead of INT and/or PIE.

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So once again why are you worrying about the VIT of your PET? -20INT but you also arnent factoring in the loss of crit. A Pets damage is by far more important than the Pets HP since the pet will not die from anthing other than full frontal attacks even in Turn5

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Originally Posted by Maku

So once again why are you worrying about the VIT of your PET? -20INT but you also arnent factoring in the loss of crit. A Pets damage is by far more important than the Pets HP since the pet will not die from anthing other than full frontal attacks even in Turn5

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Not that I really care about the pet's HP THAT much, but if the pet does die then technically that is a greater loss in pet's dmg than any stat loss AND the player's dmg by having to take the time and MP to resummon the pet.

Where is the loss in Crit? You can add all the Crit you want to i70 crafted up to 12 per slot, but INT is WAY better than Crit.

For example:
Astral Ring - INT 9, MND 9, Acc 9, Det 8
VIT IV +8
PIE IV +6
Crit III +6
Crit III +6
VIT I +1

Now INT 9, MND 9, VIT 9, PIE 6, Crit 12, Det 8, Acc 9

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Originally Posted by OmegaNovaios

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Yes exactly, you get 12 crit. Myth ones give 16

One last thing. You seem to be forgetting that this whole thread is about the issue of having two jobs stem from ACN. Going full into VIT is the best option because of that.

If I use your numbers you just gave of a full IL70 than that was 45MND INT VIT and 30PIE

Full IL90 is (for SCH) 65MND 52 PIE 54CRIT (for SMN) 65INT 48CRIT and 43SS

Now the point allocation is an issue cause of how you need 10k seals to change it. By using all IL70 like you say and the putting all there points in INT if they are a SMN is absolutly going to give them more VIT(too much actually) and 10more INT. But wait, what if you want to play SCH for a bit? that 30 INT is totally wasted because you DPS in Cleric Stance.

If you play both classes (like I do) going VIT is the best choice for the 30 points. PIE means nothing to either job because our MP is crazy awesome and even if you are running our more than likely your WHM is as well (you will have a second healer in content that would even have a chance of running you dry) and the BRD will be singing by then.

For people who play both jobs VIT is the only way to go. 50/50 MND/INT is not gimping you but it is wasting 15 points while on the other job where as both jobs get the same HP bonus from the VIT.

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Originally Posted by Maku

Yes exactly, you get 12 crit. Myth ones give 16

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4 Crit is pretty minimal.

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Originally Posted by Maku

One last thing. You seem to be forgetting that this whole thread is about the issue of having two jobs stem from ACN. Going full into VIT is the best option because of that.

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My recommendation is to stat for PIE as ACN if using both SMN and SCH, as I stated even earlier in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Maku

If you play both classes (like I do) going VIT is the best choice for the 30 points. PIE means nothing to either job because our MP is crazy awesome and even if you are running our more than likely your WHM is as well (you will have a second healer in content that would even have a chance of running you dry) and the BRD will be singing by then.

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I don't play SCH very often and haven't tried it all in EG, but SMN certainly benefits from PIE. PIE increases your MP (also affects Aetherflow gains) and your MP Regen. Both are important for replacing Energy Drain uses with more Fester/Bane uses in shorter fights, or keeping you from bottoming out of MP and/or saving more Aether stacks/CDs for much more important burst mechanics in longer fights (which can make or break the fight). Loss in 10% (which can arguably be replaced in having more Aethers that aren't used on Energy Drain or allowing the SMN to sustain max DPS for a longer period of time w/o holding back) will not make or break a fight, if it does then other jobs will surely be pressed to meet that demand.

Like I said before VIT is only useful in PVE for Turn 5 if you don't meet the HP requirement to survive Fireball, but I'm also pretty sure that Healers have a slightly higher HP pool compared to Casters. If the HP requirement is met on SMN and SCH then PIE is 100% more useful than VIT for PVE. For SCH PIE is 100% more useful than VIT and INT. For SMN you have a choice of INT and PIE, INT if you want slightly higher numbers and trying to gain #1 on parsers in every fight, PIE if you realize that making or breaking a fight can rely on something other than 5-10% extra dmg, such as being able to save Aethers for critical points in fights.

For example on Turn 5 sustaining 100% DPS all the way up to Conflags while saving 3 stacks of Aether and an extra CD ready for 3 more so you can have 2 stacks per Conflag to Bane all AOEs AND Fester for each one is far more feasible with more PIE. Being able to throw out an extra cure for 450-470 (30% increase over jewelry w/o MND which can be used on BOTH SMN and SCH) instead of a Ruin in critical situations. Sure you can argue that the tank/healers could do better if the critical situation fails but being able to contribute to that moment is worth the chance to not fail. This way of playing (which is effective) will appear more relevant IF Hybrid Jobs are released (IE RDM or BLU).

You can't always gamble your stats on requiring the 2nd healer being equal to you (could need more MP if your worse and have bad MP management or could need more MP to make up for the lack of MP management of the other healer) or a BRD for MP on longer fights especially in the future when more jobs release and BRDs become more rare as a job of choice. I've seen the 2nd healer (WHM) fall off the ledge in Titan EX with the 1st healer (SCH) solo healing the ENTIRE 2nd half of the fight (which is the much more difficult half) and win. In this case PIE will help and neither MND (which isn't even an option if you also play SMN) nor VIT will. Basically this game is 80% skill and 20% gear. You should stat for the situations that actually matter/pose a threat because the rest is easy.

There is no issue with stat allocation. It's the trade off for using two jobs from one class. Square Enix should have made you level them both separately but still branch from Arcanist. You level "SMN" to 50 but your SCH is still at L30 unless you put effort into it. Since that's not that case, you have to deal with it.

As for actually allocating stats..putting points into anything other than your main stat is a question in utility. Personally, I've never even remotely considered using VIT stack as a non-tank, PIE stack as anything, or splitting stats between SCH / SMN. Leveling another character altogether if you want to play both religiously since you've circumvented having to level two jobs by just leveling one class.

I'm just not going to play SMN anymore for anything serious. All in all, you are gimping yourself by not doing 30 INT. If not, go tell a MNK or DRG to go full VIT and see what they say. /thread

This doesn't seem like much of a penalty for getting a close to "free" second job. I'm not saying that its a non-existant down side or that it doesn't warrant a thread... just that its not that unreasonable to have to deal with.

It's dumb that SMN levels along with SCH. I haven't even unlocked SCH yet, but as soon as I do, it's sitting at level 50 for me? It's an odd feeling. Unfortunately the stat points are the trade-off.

If the stat issue becomes important you could do 15 INT/15 MND...or put in 20 x/10 x for whichever one you play more.

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Originally Posted by Zoomie

This doesn't seem like much of a penalty for getting a close to "free" second job. I'm not saying that its a non-existant down side or that it doesn't warrant a thread... just that its not that unreasonable to have to deal with.

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This right here. There are several ways to deal with it, and honestly 30 points is NOT going to make or break your character. Endgame is just not tuned that tightly when it comes to stats. If you're into hardcore min-maxing, just grind seals and re-spec whenever you change. If you're not a hardcore min-maxer, then this isn't even an issue. Put your points wherever you want, and forget about them.

I personally think PIE is underrated for ACN jobs and is probably much better than people realize, but it doesn't really matter what I think. Put your points wherever they'll be most useful to you and what you want to do.

Just put it all into int and when you play as sch, reverse your usage of Cleric Stance. :P

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Originally Posted by reckless76

Just put it all into int and when you play as sch, reverse your usage of Cleric Stance. :P

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This doesn't work at all, since Cleric Stance has a built-in heal debuff (20% I think? I'm not in-game to check).