Brian from Work 2 Game is leaving FFXIV

Is this the new dumpster fire thread?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Is this the new dumpster fire thread?

---

https://media.tenor.com/Kx6Jx03-TNUAAAAC/omg-hell.gif

I love that he made a video that talked about him quitting and then after everyone and their pet chinchilla gave their thoughts on it he had to make like three different reaction videos. He and his co-creator even made a don't worry guys one of us is still in love with XIV video. I just wonder if the other will continue with their journey to understand what's going on in the story as he used to be a skipper and have no clue as to why the WoL did anything. Then he had a few talks with a story lover and went oh wow. As I know Brian was one of those who encouraged his co-creator to continue on with slowly working through trying to pay attention to the story journey. I didn't watch most of their stuff as I disagreed with a lot of their takes and didn't like how much of their biases tended to seep through. When they were trying to give things a fair unbiased reviews about other games. Even becoming dismissive about things when asked about parts of new games that seemed to be a con to many others who were also trying out the game. Just because for them they didn't think said problem was a big deal even if said feature had various ways it could cause problems with people enjoying the game.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...15_YouTube.jpg

Hmm... Sussy baka right here...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Is this the new dumpster fire thread?

---

https://media.giphy.com/media/tZyxxR...Izl9/giphy.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

https://media.giphy.com/media/tZyxxR...Izl9/giphy.gif

---

Chuck Norris watched this gif until the end. :eek:


Cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

someone who has been playing the game for 10 more years than you

---

I've been playing since 2010 and I've never heard of the guy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrWho2010

TL/DR (not an exhaustive list)
- he can't get over his hang ups of how old school MMO's used to work (and yet he decided to have 5 kids and wants a career outside of playing MMO's too? he'll never have any time to play lol)
- praises FFXI and 1.0 style (ewwww)
- doesn't like balanced classes as much
- doesn't like how "theme park ride" XIV is (i.e. too much instanced content and not enough open world stuff - i mean this topic has been debated to death and it's something that XIV just isn't going to change really unless the backend of the game can accommodate way more than 300 people in an regular open world instance and honestly I don't think this is something the XIV devs want to tackle at all)
- wants more open world conversation (gross)
- wants people to fail more at content, but yet still get stuff for trying? why should you get anything just for trying if you don't complete it?
- not sure what he means by making marketboard items matter? i mean sure some stuff used to mean something back in the day in ARR days, but then as the game went on people just got more and more money and thus didn't really need to worry about this anymore. eventually New World will get to this point too.

The one thing I saw from Asmongold's and Zepla's react video to GingerPrime's video is that we all want to know what his "joke" was that upset the "hypersensitive" people. I think based on what the basis of his standup comedy is is whether or not people will cancel him or not esp if his jokes are based on bad takes, etc.

---

Part of why I stopped watching him years ago, for every positive point he'd ever bring up for XIV, he'd have to add two more points of why XI was even better. Watching his videos, just felt like talking current day gaming with your friends, and he's the friend that no matter what game everyone else is talking about, has to bring up how he thinks Sega was the peak of gaming, but that no one understood it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RukoBoshi

He published another video.
"New World Top 5 reasons why it beats out Final Fantasy XIV"

https://youtu.be/7CskEwjlp5c

If that's his way of "quitting" i'm guessing he's gonna talk about XIV for a while.
I'm not against the idea of making comparisons between two games you invested a lot of time in, but i didn't expect that to be in the title of his video.

---

classic way of trying to convince himself that he really likes the other game more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I've been playing since 2010 and I've never heard of the guy.

---

same I came across MR Happy before him. there was some other guy as well pretty big back then forgot his name sadly.
But only heard of Brian at the start of Shadow bringers, Probs just a YouTube thing some people go under radar but suddenly pop out nowhere but been making content for years.

But yeah, if needs to move he needs to move on.

I think it’s purely just a financial decision really.

I feel like 14 is a game you play, not watch. The only real exception to that being world first ultimate prog (and even then it’s a niche of people watching).

Outside of that, not sure how as a content creator they make anything much out of covering 14 and the content is all the same type now:
- live letter coverage (which you can catch up on Reddit/other places if you’re really into it)
- reading patch notes
- random speculation videos, which aren’t very worthwhile because 14 has a standard template for content, for over 10 years now, you pretty much know what you’re gonna get on each patch.
- reacting to other content creators “hot takes”.
- job guides that have all been done before - or you can just simply look for a wealth of internet resources.

I feel like, to be a 14 content creator (maybe just in general to) you need to be the kinda person with a big and interesting personality who people watch primarily for you, and the gameplay secondary.

Maybe he hopes New World will have a big explosion and become super amazing and suddenly everyone will be super in to it, but I doubt it - I’ve not played it, but 14 looks much more mature in its cycle.

If I were cynical, all the “14 white knights/defence force” stuff he kept going on about was just click bait to try and get more views. Also was there any need for a “I’m leaving 14” video when he could have just started covering NW more?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gralna

Part of why I stopped watching him years ago, for every positive point he'd ever bring up for XIV, he'd have to add two more points of why XI was even better. Watching his videos, just felt like talking current day gaming with your friends, and he's the friend that no matter what game everyone else is talking about, has to bring up how he thinks Sega was the peak of gaming, but that no one understood it.

---

Here's the thing... Im sure there's a middle ground where both sides of the aisle can agree on. Im almost positive that square is taking note regarding the curiosity of final fantasy 11 and final fantasy xiv 1.0 style of gameplay... Especially since we keep hearing about it beyond just the forums, we are hearing it now on YouTube from other content creators. Clearly there are positive points that can be applied from both 11 and 1.0. Only time will tell really.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

Here's the thing... Im sure there's a middle ground where both sides of the aisle can agree on. Im almost positive that square is taking note regarding the curiosity of final fantasy 11 and final fantasy xiv 1.0 style of gameplay... Especially since we keep hearing about it beyond just the forums, we are hearing it now on YouTube from other content creators. Clearly there are positive points that can be applied from both 11 and 1.0. Only time will tell really.

---

The funny thing is, I don't think XI or 1.0 style combat would make for very compelling content, so if that's what content creators want, theyd have to really up their personality, since no one would really be watching for gameplay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

Clearly there are positive points that can be applied from both 11 and 1.0. Only time will tell really.

---

Only if viewed through rose-tinted nostalgia glasses. I have fond memories of FFXI and less-than-fond memories, but memories nonetheless of FFXIV 1.0 and that type of gameplay would not work today.

FFXI combat was menu navigating combat unless you made macros for everything. The game’s structure was less rigid, but every time players found a way to play that the devs didn’t like (remember manaburn?), the devs would nerf it. Pre-Abyssea during the peak of the game, most time spent playing was grinding your levels instead of doing actual content. You would spend hours upon hours pulling mobs to your little corner of the meta leveling spot until you reach cap. FFXI had a lot of neat open-world content, but most of it was spent camping and spawning NMs and HNMs for hours upon hours.

FFXIV 1.0 had a bad sort of fatigue system where every action cost resources and you would end up running out of TP or MP and just sit there waiting for it to come back. 1.23 is what most people refer to as the “golden age” of 1.0 where a lot was overhauled, but it was a stop-gap until Yoshi-P could redo the whole game. Physical damage jobs also had a “sweet spot” for damage depending on how close you were and even lancer and gladiator had different range limits they could hit things but it was more annoying than interesting. The color your gear was determined its sub stats.

Leves were originally supposed to be the main content of the game. People could grind FFXI-style but my friends and I ended up powerleveling all our classes to 50 since it didn’t take long and a level 50 could quit your party after pulling an entire zone and kill them all and everyone would get full exp. Other than NMs and the open dungeons, the open world was complete garbage. Gathering mechanics were neat but not the sort of thing you could do for an extended period of time. Now they’re Gold Saucer attractions.

The only things I would like to bring back from 1.0 are the interesting types of hard content like the body-piece AF fights, debilitating mobs with specific attacks from specific angles, and multi-layered dungeon raids like the old Dzaemel that required one group of people to handle skeletons and ghosts spawning while another part handled Batraal.

From FFXI, I would like to see horizontal gear progression. Burning Circles and Salvage were neat but I feel like Treasure Hunts zones generally scratch that itch. I liked how each expansion wasn’t necessarily a direct sequel to the previous and newer and underleveled players could still do some content of the new expansion until they needed to level up for later zones/content. The gigantic city-wide invasions of Aht Urghan were neat even though my poor PS2 couldn’t keep up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Only if viewed through rose-tinted nostalgia glasses. I have fond memories of FFXI and less-than-fond memories, but memories nonetheless of FFXIV 1.0 and that type of gameplay would not work today.

---

Yes and no, I believe that the style of gameplay offered in final fantasy xiv 1.0 and final fantasy 11(75 cap era pre abbysea) is rather niche at this moment. However, with that being said, there is a demand for that type of content as there are servers that offer the 75 cap era content with a healthy population. We even have a mmorpg, pantheon, that look to develop around that style of gameplay. In my opinion, there is a demand for it that goes well beyond rose tinted nostalgia glasses. Sometimes players just miss the interaction and immersion while exp grinding, helping others run a tough mission or quest, chatting in the main world about the best way to go about things in the game, or saving a poor noob from high level monsters.

There must be some healthy middle ground that meshes the feeling of the old mmos, while modernizing it for the masses today. Honestly.... I don't even believe square would be able to do it, I don't think they would take that kind of risk,as much as I would love it for them to figure it out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

There must be some healthy middle ground that meshes the feeling of the old mmos, while modernizing it for the masses today. Honestly.... I don't even believe square would be able to do it, I don't think they would take that kind of risk,as much as I would love it for them to figure it out.

---

Eureka was this until NA players “optimized” it and turned it into a FATE train. In the beginning I did level grind parties and I heard the JP servers kept it going. The problem with Eureka is that it is instanced content and isn’t relevant anymore so there’s no reason for people to keep doing it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Eureka was this until NA players “optimized” it and turned it into a FATE train. In the beginning I did level grind parties and I heard the JP servers kept it going. The problem with Eureka is that it is instanced content and isn’t relevant anymore so there’s no reason for people to keep doing it.

---

Part of why FATE trains came to be was not only because it was easier than actual level grind parties, FFXIV's combat does not lend itself well to those level grind parties. In FFXI you'd have things practically on auto or be casting for a while, and be chatting up the rest of the party because you had nothing else to do during that time. FFXIV's 2.5s GCD and oGCD system can't work with that, you can't send a message between attacks because there is little to no downtime. The NMs however, you had people constantly chatting while waiting for them to spawn, going to help rez others, and acting like the FFXI community. FATE train was how FFXI could be felt here in FFXIV, it was never going to be possible for the level grind parties to have the same feel as they do in FFXI.

I am sad to see him go. What I think XIV lacks is exploration content. Island Sanctuary actually felt a bit refreshing when I first discovered the island. I wish XIVs world would open up and allow explorers to explore. Everything feels so on rails and "on demand" that it takes some flavor out of the game. Its like a mcdonalds, convenient, but hardly noteworthy.

I can essentially play this game from my inn and never come out basically once ive done all the unlocks (doesn't take too long). Maybe a few teleports here and there, but definitely no need to actually travel.

Meanwhile I have more and more mounts piling up in my list for no reason really.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Part of why FATE trains came to be was not only because it was easier than actual level grind parties, FFXIV's combat does not lend itself well to those level grind parties. In FFXI you'd have things practically on auto or be casting for a while, and be chatting up the rest of the party because you had nothing else to do during that time. FFXIV's 2.5s GCD and oGCD system can't work with that, you can't send a message between attacks because there is little to no downtime. The NMs however, you had people constantly chatting while waiting for them to spawn, going to help rez others, and acting like the FFXI community. FATE train was how FFXI could be felt here in FFXIV, it was never going to be possible for the level grind parties to have the same feel as they do in FFXI.

---

The 2.5 second cool down is my major gripe with final fantasy xiv since it came about in 2.0. The moment they made things faster paced, I knew that the social aspect would never be the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

The 2.5 second cool down is my major gripe with final fantasy xiv since it came about in 2.0. The moment they made things faster paced, I knew that the social aspect would never be the same.

---

It's why I wish they'd just combine the FFXI and FFXIV subscriptions. Even if it was $20 a month, I'd pay it if it meant I could go back to FFXI and relive some of those hellish days.

LFG Fafnir for Ridill

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ath192

I am sad to see him go. What I think XIV lacks is exploration content. Island Sanctuary actually felt a bit refreshing when I first discovered the island. I wish XIVs world would open up and allow explorers to explore. Everything feels so on rails and "on demand" that it takes some flavor out of the game. Its like a mcdonalds, convenient, but hardly noteworthy.

I can essentially play this game from my inn and never come out basically once ive done all the unlocks (doesn't take too long). Maybe a few teleports here and there, but definitely no need to actually travel.

Meanwhile I have more and more mounts piling up in my list for no reason really.

---

I'm glad travel is optional, though it's something I find myself doing now and again because the zones are actually worth exploring and wandering through. MMO Travel used to be time consuming and as the audience has come to include more people the older side, there are many that just don't want to be forced to waste time travelling. The same goes for socializing. Being able to "play from the inn" is also a wonderful thing. Look at how much noise is in those cities from all the mindless bs and advertisements. I know I'm not alone in appreciating the quiet time. I told some folks about my FC where no one talks and it didn't sound strange to them, actually quite welcoming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knot_D

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...15_YouTube.jpg

Hmm... Sussy baka right here...

---

Lmao what? Anyone comparing a literally bare bones mmo like new world to a fleshed out mmo like FF14 is either lying or has gone full simp mode.


New world is extremely bare bones even right now, I played it to max level,
-the combat is dreadfully boring for an mmo, literally auto attack spam and 3-6 skills
-magic attack animations look like from a game 20 years ago
-0 story
-No auto group finder so most people havent even touched their dungeons because people cant be bothered socializing in order to have fun
-Not content or things to do at endgame other than grind to get to max gear, nothing interesting to go through, maybe expeditions but most cant be bothered socializing
-Disastrous pvp where organized muskets just delete everything against casual groups who are trying to have fun, magic is pretty much useless.


They absolutely did a few things right, like literally everything from crafting to farming mats to high end content rewards gypsum to get to max gear either fast or slow, but there just isnt that much to do to keep you interested. New world could be decent after maybe a decade of content but right now it is just a big meh

The fact that he is comparing such a bare bones game to an established currently top 1 mmo just seems like he is trying to bait people into arguing or he is rly that delusional.

Either way, it didnt work for him clearly.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen.../fdhdfhdfh.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

I'm glad travel is optional, though it's something I find myself doing now and again because the zones are actually worth exploring and wandering through. MMO Travel used to be time consuming and as the audience has come to include more people the older side, there are many that just don't want to be forced to waste time travelling. The same goes for socializing. Being able to "play from the inn" is also a wonderful thing. Look at how much noise is in those cities from all the mindless bs and advertisements. I know I'm not alone in appreciating the quiet time. I told some folks about my FC where no one talks and it didn't sound strange to them, actually quite welcoming.

---

Why dont you just play a solo game though? Like the purpose of MMOs is to be with other people playing the game at the same time. All I'm reading is you're thankful you dont have to talk or do anything that takes any patience or effort. I'm not dimissing you, its a genuine question, feel free to play this game, but MMO - Massive Multiplayer Online is a genre where players would presumably play to socialize, and cooperate in. The hubbub of the cities with spams and chatter is... exactly what you would expect in a fantasy world, especially one set loosely around the imperial age with some futurism.

Nothing about logging on, telporting everywhere, queuing into everything I need to from my inn, and logging out, pretending anyone else is an NPC sounds fun or appealing. And in your case, even logging in to a dead FC.

Forgive me but it just doesnt sound like you want to play in an open world about "adventuring" (Ironically) where you play with others, so these are things solo games excel at.

All these conveniences come with a trade off, and IMO its not good, all it teaches people is to expect instant gratification and get super toxic the moment someone messes up. The game still has enough to keep me playing but they've truly taken the adventuring feel out of it and buried it 10 miles deep. I really wish people didn't keep pushing it into even more convenience and solitude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

FFXIV 1.0 had a bad sort of fatigue system where every action cost resources and you would end up running out of TP or MP and just sit there waiting for it to come back. 1.23 is what most people refer to as the “golden age” of 1.0 where a lot was overhauled, but it was a stop-gap until Yoshi-P could redo the whole game. Physical damage jobs also had a “sweet spot” for damage depending on how close you were and even lancer and gladiator had different range limits they could hit things but it was more annoying than interesting. The color your gear was determined its sub stats.

---

The fatigue system had nothing to do with action cost. The fatigue system was simply the inverse of the rested exp system. Rather than spending "bonus" exp on just one class/job, you'd effectively get bonus exp on all of them and would swap to another class once the bonus for the given class's bonus ran out. Yoshida then made it far less alt-friendly by limiting the time-accrued bonus to what could be spent on a single class but placated the playerbase by calling it "rested exp" instead of focusing on its opposite "fatigue" (i.e., running out of rested exp). Hurray?

MP regenerated plenty quickly, and TP wasn't generated over time at all. It was more similar to a job gauge, in this case generated by basic attacks (GCD skills that were later replaced with passive auto-attacks, because somehow Yoshida felt the APM was too high, I guess?) and a select few other skills (Pummel, Flurry, etc.). You then spent it on skills of varying cost (until Yoshida consolidated them all down to just the cost of "combo" openers by drastically increasing all costs but then making all further actions within a "combo" free so long as you did them in order, such that 6000 --1000->2000->3000-- TP's worth of actions could be done with 1000 TP, and so the era of 123 456 123 456 began, in place of situational skills, multiple damage types, synergies, and varying attack shapes).

On the other points, though, agreed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ath192

Why dont you just play a solo game though? Like the purpose of MMOs is to be with other people playing the game at the same time.

---

Where in that description does it say "you should be forced to socialize and organize with other people you dont like"?

Having other people in the world is important, it gives a sense of real world, it adds competition both in pve and even the economy of the came which is fun and exciting, pvp also requires all those people as well.

Yet nowhere does it require "socialize and group up with those people manually" to enjoy content.

That is why so many hardcore games like new world failed, they though people would love socialization because a bunch of loud hardcores keep screaming "I miss my old social mmos :(" and some are now devs and decide to force their design on everyone, then they wonder why casuals dont bother with their games and choose to leave rather than socialize just do content.

New world had a number of leveling dungeons, the vast majority didnt touch those because there was no auto group finder like FF14.

FF14 even has more high end raid participation due to its accessibility, when people are allowed to do easy versions of high end content without the need for socialization they are far more likely to try out harder content in the future compared to a game that tells you "to do this content you need to socialize, otherwise you cant do it" which is the point me and many casuals just outright leave


MMO does not mean socialization, it means people running around the world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

The fatigue system had nothing to do with action cost. The fatigue system was simply the inverse of the rested exp system. Rather than spending "bonus" exp on just one class/job, you'd effectively get bonus exp on all of them and would swap to another class once the bonus for the given class's bonus ran out. Yoshida then made it far less alt-friendly by limiting the time-accrued bonus to what could be spent on a single class but placated the playerbase by calling it "rested exp" instead of focusing on its opposite "fatigue" (i.e., running out of rested exp). Hurray?

MP regenerated plenty quickly, and TP wasn't generated over time at all. It was more similar to a job gauge, in this case generated by basic attacks (GCD skills that were later replaced with passive auto-attacks, because somehow Yoshida felt the APM was too high, I guess?) and a select few other skills (Pummel, Flurry, etc.). You then spent it on skills of varying cost (until Yoshida consolidated them all down to just the cost of "combo" openers by drastically increasing all costs but then making all further actions within a "combo" free so long as you did them in order, such that 6000 --1000->2000->3000-- TP's worth of actions could be done with 1000 TP, and so the era of 123 456 123 456 began, in place of situational skills, multiple damage types, synergies, and varying attack shapes).

On the other points, though, agreed.

---

You are missing a bit on fatigue. you could get 0 exp for jobs after a bit. It wasn't just the opposite of rested. It could lock you out of earning any EXP whatsoever after a while leveling, after making it prohibitively inefficient first.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abE09-tqhoM

Gotta love this old video explaining it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Where in that description does it say "you should be forced to socialize and organize with other people you dont like"?

Having other people in the world is important, it gives a sense of real world, it adds competition both in pve and even the economy of the came which is fun and exciting, pvp also requires all those people as well.

Yet nowhere does it require "socialize and group up with those people manually" to enjoy content.

That is why so many hardcore games like new world failed, they though people would love socialization because a bunch of loud hardcores keep screaming "I miss my old social mmos :(" and some are now devs and decide to force their design on everyone, then they wonder why casuals dont bother with their games and choose to leave rather than socialize just do content.

New world had a number of leveling dungeons, the vast majority didnt touch those because there was no auto group finder like FF14


MMO does not mean socialization, it means people running around the world.

---

My brother in Christ I'm beginning to think you have a kink for elitists. Nearly every post you make is to take some potshots at the elitist boogieman and I gotta say, it's pretty weird fam.

Genuinely can't be healthy to have this much of a hate-boner for so long.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Where in that description does it say "you should be forced to socialize and organize with other people you dont like"?

---

No where, do you like... not like anyone? or Have you already come to the conclusion you won't like anyone you meet in game already? Kinda jaded.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ath192

Why dont you just play a solo game though? Like the purpose of MMOs is to be with other people playing the game at the same time. All I'm reading is you're thankful you dont have to talk or do anything that takes any patience or effort. I'm not dimissing you, its a genuine question, feel free to play this game, but MMO - Massive Multiplayer Online is a genre where players would presumably play to socialize, and cooperate in. The hubbub of the cities with spams and chatter is... exactly what you would expect in a fantasy world, especially one set loosely around the imperial age with some futurism.

Nothing about logging on, telporting everywhere, queuing into everything I need to from my inn, and logging out, pretending anyone else is an NPC sounds fun or appealing. And in your case, even logging in to a dead FC.

Forgive me but it just doesnt sound like you want to play in an open world about "adventuring" (Ironically) where you play with others, so these are things solo games excel at.

All these conveniences come with a trade off, and IMO its not good, all it teaches people is to expect instant gratification and get super toxic the moment someone messes up. The game still has enough to keep me playing but they've truly taken the adventuring feel out of it and buried it 10 miles deep. I really wish people didn't keep pushing it into even more convenience and solitude.

---

If we're being real though the moment things are introduced that force these aspects it's frowned upon or dumbed down. I still put Eureka over Bozja as imo Eureka took instance wide cooperation with the train conductors and groups splitting off to prime NMs. Many expressed hate for that and it was dumbed down. Same for content thats to hard for folks. It gets nerfed. In From The Cold is my favorite msq instance of all time yet because the game didn't hold folks hands they had to create an easier version.

Even stuff like neighborhoods. They're ghost towns. Rp venues see the most people around.
Hell even just content in general. Most you'll get is a "o/" n "gg".

You can explore just fine in xiv and do it solo. Variant is much more enjoyable to experience n explore by myself as it's my own pace. If I have the option to rock with Hades n Co. In the msq I'm gonna do that. But I'm not adverse to running with folks after that.

It's all down to the individual. Some may love it, others may hate. There's many who sit in limsa n chit chat. There's many who dont

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You are missing a bit on fatigue. you could get 0 exp for jobs after a bit. It wasn't just the opposite of rested. It could lock you out of earning any EXP whatsoever after a while leveling, after making it prohibitively inefficient first.

---

Which differs, per job, from rested exp only in terms of scaling.

Let's say we remove both fatigue and rested exp entirely, leaving only that fatigued/unrested baseline. How many hours/at-level-kills' worth of experience should it take a job to reach the level cap?

Now we add that pre-fatigued/rested state. If the base were the same, the two would likewise be effectively identical. Both are finite. The only difference is that the bonus "rested" exp is spent all one job and the bonus of "not yet fatigued" is spent on each.

If the goal is to extend/gate the time it takes to level a single job, the two leveling experiences remain identical for single-job levelers, while fatigue pushes ahead for multi-levelers. If the goal is to extend/gate the time it takes to level a few jobs, then "rested" tends to be faster in getting a single job to cap and "fatigue" tends to be faster in getting a few jobs to cap.

That's it. All that fundamentally changes is a shift in what is incentivized between single-leveling and multi-leveling. The rest is just turning the knob on the base exp acquisition rate relative to what's required to reach cap.


Hot take perhaps, but I preferred when we were a bit more incentivized to multi-level. The later "Additional Actions" were a muddled and disappointing half-measure, but lower MSQ experience and lower experience required per level, etc., would certainly go a decent way, just as retuning the base exp rates while retaining the old fatigue system would have before, especially since you generated margin against fatigue continuously instead of only when in rest areas, allowing time spent on other jobs not to detract from leveling efficiency on others.


Note: Both systems had the Armory Bonus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Which differs, per job, from rested exp only in terms of scaling.

Let's say we remove both fatigue and rested exp entirely, leaving only that fatigued/unrested baseline. How many hours/at-level-kills' worth of experience should it take a job to reach the level cap?

Now we add that pre-fatigued/rested state. If the base were the same, the two would likewise be effectively identical. Both are finite. The only difference is that the bonus "rested" exp is spent all one job and the bonus of "not yet fatigued" is spent on each.

If the goal is to extend/gate the time it takes to level a single job, the two leveling experiences remain identical for single-job levelers, while fatigue pushes ahead for multi-levelers. If the goal is to extend/gate the time it takes to level a few jobs, then "rested" tends to be faster in getting a single job to cap and "fatigue" tends to be faster in getting a few jobs to cap.

That's it. All that fundamentally changes is a shift in what is incentivized between single-leveling and multi-leveling. The rest is just turning the knob on the base exp acquisition rate relative to what's required to reach cap.

---

Yeah, but without rested, you can still grind out that job to max level. When you hit the fatigue wall you were done.

All nuances aside, fatigue was a stupid way to do it.

I've always leveled my jobs/classes serially, not in parallel. It makes more sense to me to do it that way. Fatigue sucked for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ath192

Why dont you just play a solo game though? Like the purpose of MMOs is to be with other people playing the game at the same time. All I'm reading is you're thankful you dont have to talk or do anything that takes any patience or effort. I'm not dimissing you, its a genuine question, feel free to play this game, but MMO - Massive Multiplayer Online is a genre where players would presumably play to socialize, and cooperate in. The hubbub of the cities with spams and chatter is... exactly what you would expect in a fantasy world, especially one set loosely around the imperial age with some futurism.

Nothing about logging on, telporting everywhere, queuing into everything I need to from my inn, and logging out, pretending anyone else is an NPC sounds fun or appealing. And in your case, even logging in to a dead FC.

Forgive me but it just doesnt sound like you want to play in an open world about "adventuring" (Ironically) where you play with others, so these are things solo games excel at.

All these conveniences come with a trade off, and IMO its not good, all it teaches people is to expect instant gratification and get super toxic the moment someone messes up. The game still has enough to keep me playing but they've truly taken the adventuring feel out of it and buried it 10 miles deep. I really wish people didn't keep pushing it into even more convenience and solitude.

---

I was only touching on a couple of aspects, but my main point was responding to your travel comment.

I like the social game, but I also like my peace. I do plenty of adventuring. I can and do interact with a lot of people in XIV. I've made friends in this and other games and engaged in a lot of group activities. You can knock my dead FC preference all you want, but I can tell you I've had my fill of drama in other groups. This quiet is a blessing and people actually stick around for it.

Socializing is encouraged and certainly optimal, but it's not mandatory. That's one of the great things about this games. Even the less social can come together with everyone to have some fun and clear some content. Not having to spend the time spamming an LFG channel is the best.

The toxicity you speak of has little to do with the game and everything to do with our culture and the society we live in (That's a whole other deep conversation for another time.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

When you hit the fatigue wall you were done.

---

Which would have remained the case for having run out of rested experience if they hadn't also increased the experience acquisition base. But that is, again, just a matter of scaling/tuning/turning-the-knob.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I've always leveled my jobs/classes serially, not in parallel.

---

I mean, even now it's kind of inferior to do so after reaching whatever endgame content you need to rush to, especially if you're not paying for retainers. In terms of inventory space, it's better to do a whole gear class (Aiming, Maiming, Striking, Scouting, Casting, Healing, or Fending) at a time.

But fair enough. I understand that preference. I just prefer taking breaks occasionally from my main to play on alt jobs. Rested experience as a system actively detracts from that because you can't choose on whom to spend the rested experience and you only acrue rested bonus experience while resting, whereas fatigue was rolled back (non-fatigued bonus regenerated) regardless of actually resting, meaning you could regain leveling efficiency for a given job just as much by playing any other job as you could by logging off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ath192

No where, do you like... not like anyone? or Have you already come to the conclusion you won't like anyone you meet in game already? Kinda jaded.

---

Maybe, maybe not most likely, the fact remains that the moment you put socialization as an OBSTACLE to doing content, you have screwed your game for casuals because it is a lot easier to quit a game rather than be forced to socialize just to do group content, hence why auto group finder was such a success when introduced in WoW and why it is such a success in FF14, because it is ACCESSIBLE, no chatting, no socialization, you press a button, wait for a que and play the content.


If you need to socialize, make manual groups just to do a single group activity most casuals wont bother and instead leave your game, which is what happened to new world and countless other "hardcore" mmos which listened to the loud hardcore crowd or the devs themselves were part of said crowd and then had a pikachu face reaction when casuals left their game in droves xd

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaconBits

My brother in Christ I'm beginning to think you have a kink for elitists. Nearly every post you make is to take some potshots at the elitist boogieman and I gotta say, it's pretty weird fam.

Genuinely can't be healthy to have this much of a hate-boner for so long.

---

Wont somebody think of the poor elitist hardcores who keep advocating for the destruction of casual systems and rewards in games just to coddle their fragile ego D:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Wont somebody think of the poor elitist hardcores who keep advocating for the destruction of casual systems and rewards in games just to coddle their fragile ego D:

---

At least we know the casuals have you defending them :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Wont somebody think of the poor elitist hardcores who keep advocating for the destruction of casual systems and rewards in games just to coddle their fragile ego D:

---

That's it? That's your gimmick? Yadda yadda I HATE ELITISTS repeated ad nauseam until the cows come home?

God I miss Titanmen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaconBits

That's it? That's your gimmick? Yadda yadda I HATE ELITISTS repeated ad nauseam until the cows come home?

---

Well, that and just sheer misanthropy, apparently? There's a hell of a lot of conflation going on there between "I actually like having other people to talk to out in the world, and reason to speak to them (including by having chill but rewarding things to do outside of silently run instances and solo-play alone)" and 'vile, casual-slaying, conspiratorial elitists.'

Wow 36 pages. Not going to read all of them lol
Anyways, here are my 0.02.

First of all, message to FFXIV Andies : Stop blindly defending FFXIV - it is an excellent game that can stand on its own two feet. No need to try to convince someone who for some reason not into it/got tired of it. Don't become the Star Citizen cult that scouts the internet looking for any negative opinion of their vaporware and then descends on it like pack of vultures. If you go to any of the forums of the trash pvp gankbox "games" the first thing their denizens will tell you is "not a game for you" - and this should really be your only response. The beauty and brilliance of the FFXIV design is that it can easily function with minimum number of players - unlike your typical sweaty gankbox it isn't reliant on player generated content, so there is no need to try and win over folks who don't want to be here.

Secondly, I see the the usual "game is too easy" opinions floating around in this very discussion. This is normal. I haven't yet seen any game (even Dark Souls/Elden Ring) where someone hasn't declared it "too easy". You always going to have people who are generally good at pressing buttons at the right time and no-lifers who can grind/practice 16 hours per day, and to them any and every game will be too easy. This is normal and expected. It is on SE to balance the needs of this minority with the needs of the casual majority and so far they have been doing an excellent job doing it.

I forgot to mention this is actually the most social I've been anywhere, thanks to conveniences like DF and PF. I'm on a bunch of different discords, where I used to stick to my core group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis-Silvertis

who don't want to be here.

---

ah, if only.