Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

And if you are passing these DPS checks, even if you aren't performing to the level someone else would like, end of story. If you are following mechanics and passing these thresholds in the game, you shouldn't be called out because it isn't going as fast as YOU would like.

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I never said anything about speed tho. Just because I personally did speedkills and aimed for the best of best I don't ask others to do so.

But for savage and ultimate "just passing" is sometimes not enough bc you cannot pass in the first place. You end up smashing your head against a wall and you will just not be able to get over it, because you have no way to find out who is 'underperforming'. Even if you would like to help in a nice and polite manner, you can't because you wouldn't know.

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Originally Posted by Senn

How about instead of a party DPS meter, we could give Billy a personal meter to show how well he's performing mid fight?

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This is basically an agreement a lot of us are aiming for already, so people could at least get an idea that something is off with their performance, but a lot of people don't want that either for idk, reasons I guess.

Having a chatbox can and has led to way more harassment than a parser ever will. Following the logic that the playerbase is just this unruly child who can't be trusted with anything, just lock the chatbox entirely. It's fine, we have third party chatboxes too.

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

This is basically an agreement a lot of us are aiming for already, so people could at least get an idea that something is off with their performance, but a lot of people don't want that either for idk, reasons I guess.

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Well, I'm all for having an in-game personal DPS meter that only you can see. I've been wanting one for a long time now.

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Originally Posted by Senn

Well, I'm all for having an in-game personal DPS meter that only you can see. I've been wanting one for a long time now.

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I bet most PS4 players are in the same boat. lmao.

I'd still argue a personal one is not ideal, but it'd be a great start and as I said probably a good point to sit on and wait if we end up yeeting each other out the game because of rising toxicity. :rolleyes:
No idea how they are logging the fights, but something like the fflogs rank system for finished encounters would be pretty decent in addition to a personal life parse. Just make 4 ranks, A - D (A being best and then decreasing) and when you finished a fight you see a popup with your rank. Everyone can either ignore it or take the information.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

You are not paying for my subscription. You have no authority to dictate how I want to play or if I need to improve or not.

As for learning/clear parties, you have no right to be saying anything about anyone.

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While it is true no one has the right to dictate how you play, I can't help but recall that you had said before many times (you have since deleted those posts) that no one is allowed to comment on what you're doing. I feel like you're saying the same thing again, but worded in a more subtle manner in an attempt to appear vaguely reasonable, when you're not.

If you join a group you are entering a public space. Anything you do is everyone's business because everything you do affects the whole group. Every player in your group is allowed to comment on something that affects them.

The only way you're going to be able to avoid any commentary is by always making your own groups with a rule forbidding it, or leaving the game.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Have you ever thought a huge portion of the player base really doesn't care? A large swatch of players play for the story, and clearing content just for the clear or glams.

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Have you ever thought that some people might want to see their own DPS so they can improve? Geez.
Just give me a personal DPS meter, and allow players to toggle it on or off if they want and I'll be happy.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

snip.

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Im quite upset you didnt even address the billy analogy, i felt it was quite pertinent both the discussion and my stance on things. What if you have a Billy in your stress free party, what if youre the Billy, theres no way of knowing, and thats the problem a lot of us have, its not a malicious be perfect or kick, or meet my high standards, or even looking the "shame" weaker players, its purely practical. If our stated goal is to kill something, having the option to know what is inhibiting that goal is information that every player should have. My ideal situation is the party would have to aggree to it like with lootmaster. The rest of what you said didnt seem relevant to my points, yes those parties currently exist, im arguing it would be a good thing if these systems were baked into the game as dps is a game mechanic. The game does have thresholds, theyre called enrage, the very fact enrages exist means measuring dps becomes a mechanic, wether official or not. Like you said we would unlikely cross paths in PF unless youre joining clear or farm parties with clearly stated goals, which most people do, its just that as the system currently is people can join these parties without meeting the parties requirements, and may not even know it because the game doesnt tell you how you perform

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

You seem to keep urging ever-so-subtly that I shouldn't be playing this game at all when everyone approaches this content differently.

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I'm not being subtle about it. Players who cannot handle normal group situations should stay away from them. And given it's impossible to play this game alone, a person in this predicament either needs to change their attitude, somehow engineer a group situation that suits them, or stop playing.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I actually am being very reasonable and I have posted several comments on my reasoning in a very calm and thought out manner. As I've said, people should be very clear from the beginning what they expect from their parties.

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Oh yes I'm sure that threatening to report anyone who comments on your dps is a very reasonable thing indeed.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I've also mentioned multiple times that I form my own PF groups forbidding any outside sources or commentary and things are stress-free.

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That's fair. But this doesn't mean you're not being unreasonable when you preach in the forums about how we don't pay your sub so no one has a right to comment on your performance.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I am sorry you find me horribly unreasonable and just a horrible person in general. Thankfully, you don't have to ever play with me :) I wish you a wonderful day.

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Please do not put words into my mouth. I never said you were a horrible person. I find your stance on commentary very silly. This does not mean I hate you. I blacklist people I hate. Clearly I haven't blacklisted you.

And I doubt you wish me a wonderful day if you have somehow convinced yourself that I have a very strong distaste towards you.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

You are not paying for my subscription. You have no authority to dictate how I want to play or if I need to improve or not. End of the day. The game is designed a certain way without the use of damage meters. You should take the initiative to state VERY CLEARLY your requirements for a Savage Party or Ultimate party so people can choose whether or not to stay.

Also, I don't pay yours, so you have every right to not want to play with me. Personally, I wouldn't want to be in a party with you anyway since our game goals and motivations are obviously VERY different.

As for learning/clear parties, you have no right to be saying anything about anyone.

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Holy Moly, calm down C(^-^C)

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Originally Posted by Senn

Have you ever thought that some people might want to see their own DPS so they can improve? Geez.
Just give me a personal DPS meter, and allow players to toggle it on or off if they want and I'll be happy.

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That's basically what I find so unfair in this game. Players that don't care get coddled and they have all means ingame to play the way they want, which, again, is great and I like it. But those of use who strife for improvement are left alone and have no chances to play the game the way we want to.
At least not in an official way, which is really sad tbh.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I'm not being subtle about it. Players who cannot handle normal group situations should stay away from them. And given it's impossible to play this game alone, a person in this predicament either needs to change their attitude, somehow engineer a group situation that suits them, or stop playing.



Oh yes I'm sure that threatening to report anyone who comments on your dps is a very reasonable thing indeed.



That's fair. But this doesn't mean you're not being unreasonable when you preach in the forums about how we don't pay your sub so no one has a right to comment on your performance.



Please do not put words into my mouth. I never said you were a horrible person. I find your stance on commentary very silly. This does not mean I hate you. I blacklist people I hate. Clearly I haven't blacklisted you.

And I doubt you wish me a wonderful day if you have somehow convinced yourself that I have a very strong distaste towards you.

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I have already commented on my initial statement coming off as harsher than I intended, but the truth remains the same. No one should be utilizing outside sources to comment on another person's performance. If these tools were integrated into the game. Have at it. Also, my most recent posts have elaborated on my stance and in my opinion have been reasonable discussing how this game presents content to the player and what they are expected.

At the end of the day, be clear about what you want. Be upfront in your parties and let people be. And actually, I DO play this game alone 90 percent of the time except for roulettes and clearing a normal raid or dungeon for the first time. And in that content, unless you are wiping consistently, NO ONE should be commenting on someone's DPS performance. Save it for your Savage and Ultimate parties YOU created, with CLEAR RULES and UPFRONT PERIMETERS.

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

That's basically what I find so unfair in this game. Players that don't care get coddled and they have all means ingame to play the way they want, which, again, is great and I like it. But those of use who strife for improvement are left alone and have no chances to play the game the way we want to.
At least not in an official way, which is really sad tbh.

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Yeah, that's why I do want a private/personal DPS meter. I really want to improve, and SSS just doesn't cut it because all you're doing is hitting a dummy, not doing any mechanics. I do SSS to practice my rotation, but it's not enough. A DPS meter would help me greatly.

However, I don't really support having a public/party DPS meter. Some people don't like that level of scrutiny and I think having a feature like that in game being public would most likely create an unpleasant atmosphere. We all know what people can be like online.

So yes to a private/personal DPS meter that only shows your DPS. I'm all about self improvement.
No to public/party DPS meters.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I have already commented on my initial statement coming off as harsher than I intended, but the truth remains the same. No one should be utilizing outside sources to comment on another person's performance.

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I already explained to you in this post that you do not need a parser to see if someone is playing well or badly.

You cannot assume: says something about dps = uses a parser.

I don't need a parser to look at the party ui to see your buffs, your casts if you're a caster, your vuln stacks, your damage down stacks, your health, if you're dead.

I don't need a parser to recognise ability animations to see if you're using aoe when it is appropriate to.

I don't need a parser to see if you're doing positionals in melee or not.

I don't need a parser to see that you're standing around doing nothing instead of doing something.

I don't need a parser to be able to recognise all the very obvious signs that someone is a good player or not.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

At the end of the day, be clear about what you want. Be upfront in your parties and let people be. And actually, I DO play this game alone 90 percent of the time except for roulettes and clearing a normal raid or dungeon for the first time. And in that content, unless you are wiping consistently, NO ONE should be commenting on someone's DPS performance. Save it for your Savage and Ultimate parties YOU created, with CLEAR RULES and UPFRONT PERIMETERS.

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Sorry no, if I see a player doing something like using aoe on a single target boss or pulling huge groups without using defensive cds then I'm going to say something, even if we're not wiping. I'm a pretty easy going person but if a player is definitely doing something very very wrong I don't stay quiet.

EDIT: No I am not saying I watch out for everything at the same time, all I did was list examples of things that can be spotted without a parser.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

You seem to keep urging ever-so-subtly that I shouldn't be playing this game at all when everyone approaches this content differently. I actually am being very reasonable and I have posted several comments on my reasoning in a very calm and thought out manner.

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Well let's be more reasonable. Instead of going into the attacks of why they think your mindset is bad. Would you like a general idea at least what you could be doing ie constructive criticism in how to perform better? I'm not asking you to be the top dps but if someone told you what you're doing good and wrong, but ideas on how to fix it would you be receptive to that?

Just genuinely curious.

Like basically if I told you or gave you tips on how to bake a better cake, not that your cake is terrible would you be open to it?

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I already explained to you in this post that you do not need a parser to see if someone is playing well or badly.

You cannot assume: says something about dps = uses a parser.

I don't need a parser to look at the party ui to see your buffs, your casts if you're a caster, your vuln stacks, your damage down stacks, your health, if you're dead.

I don't need a parser to recognise ability animations to see if you're using aoe when it is appropriate to.

I don't need a parser to see if you're doing positionals in melee or not.

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I don't know if it's just me, but in difficult content (EX and above, who cares about dps in Normal) I wouldn't be able to perform my role/class to a high standard, focus on and avoid all mechanics and simultaneously monitor the buffs, debuffs of all 7 party members, observe every spell animation and cast bar and recognize flaws even if I've never played that class and keep watch on their position in relation to the boss and which positionals their rotation requires. I'd see bits here and there but I'd miss the bulk of it. I'm impressed you can effortlessly do that.

Now reading logs afterwards I could do, picking up literally everything from APM, to damage taken, to every action and ability used and not used, how often and exact timing when, with zero error and nothing missed.

Sure you can see if someone's an Ice Mage or afk, but to see why someone doing mechanics and pressing most of the right buttons is still grey you need solid stats and information.

It's a shame we won't even be getting just a personal one. I always worry if I'm bad or good enough and sadly the game won't tell me. Just clearing stuff doesn't mean I'm a good player. We don't need a meter to tell us everyone's stuff.. just our own. I would love one that told me what numbers I'm doing so I'll know if I'm under performing. So far people have been really nice to me but now I'm wondering if it's cause they think i'll report them if they told me if I sucked. Now I feel horrible :c

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I don't know if it's just me, but in difficult content (EX and above, who cares about dps in Normal) I wouldn't be able to perform my role/class to a high standard, focus on and avoid all mechanics and simultaneously monitor the buffs, debuffs of all 7 party members, observe every spell animation and cast bar and recognize flaws even if I've never played that class and keep watch on their position in relation to the boss and which positionals their rotation requires. I'd see bits here and there but I'd miss the bulk of it. I'm impressed you can effortlessly do that.

Now reading logs afterwards I could do, picking up literally everything from APM, to damage taken, to every action and ability used and not used, how often and exact timing when, with zero error and nothing missed.

Sure you can see if someone's an Ice Mage or afk, but to see why someone doing mechanics and pressing most of the right buttons is still grey you need solid stats and information.

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That is the problem I have with adding them in game, people will use them in normal content to berate and harass other players. Making them readily available gives people the means to harass anyone at anytime. With the way it is now people have to care enough to install a third party tool, and they are not usually going to go through that much trouble to run it in DF content where hitting those numbers is really inconsequential. Some runs may take longer than others but my suggestion would be to not queue for roulettes if you are not prepared to spend more than the fastest run time on something.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

That is the problem I have with adding them in game, people will use them in normal content to berate and harass other players. Making them readily available gives people the means to harass anyone at anytime. With the way it is now people have to care enough to install a third party tool, and they are not usually going to go through that much trouble to run it in DF content where hitting those numbers is really inconsequential. Some runs may take longer than others but my suggestion would be to not queue for roulettes if you are not prepared to spend more than the fastest run time on something.

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Which is why we want a compromise of a personal parser only. They can't use that to harass others. It would be only for self-improvement.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I don't know if it's just me, but in difficult content (EX and above, who cares about dps in Normal) I wouldn't be able to perform my role/class to a high standard, focus on and avoid all mechanics and simultaneously monitor the buffs, debuffs of all 7 party members, observe every spell animation and cast bar and recognize flaws even if I've never played that class and keep watch on their position in relation to the boss and which positionals their rotation requires. I'd see bits here and there but I'd miss the bulk of it. I'm impressed you can effortlessly do that.

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I didn't say I can effortlessly do that. I would say few players can. I merely wanted to point out that if a person comments on a person's performance it doesn't mean they're using a parser, because there are signs you can spot just from what the game displays. If the content isn't challenging of course you tend to get more opportunities to spot things.

That being said if you're a healer you're in a position to spot more often than others because it's part of your job to always keep an eye on the party ui. A really good ast would definitely be keeping an eye on dps personal buffs to make the best use of their cards.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

That is the problem I have with adding them in game, people will use them in normal content to berate and harass other players. Making them readily available gives people the means to harass anyone at anytime. With the way it is now people have to care enough to install a third party tool, and they are not usually going to go through that much trouble to run it in DF content where hitting those numbers is really inconsequential. Some runs may take longer than others but my suggestion would be to not queue for roulettes if you are not prepared to spend more than the fastest run time on something.

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The easiest but maybe not most realistic "official" solution would be to enable the parsers only in extreme and higher content (dunno if that would work with mentor roulettes where everything can happen) and the dummy thingies. If people want to improve by using personal parsers, by all means, let them.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

...Sure you can see if someone's an Ice Mage or afk, but to see why someone doing mechanics and pressing most of the right buttons is still grey you need solid stats and information.

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Exact Parser information is useful in two places - spotting extreme trouble spots that youre blind to, or cleaning up your rotations for min maxing. The truth is more that Knowing your proper rotation + doing mechanics is gonna net you a green or blue parse (if were referencing fflogs). The bar isnt that high, with a few exceptions where a specific class is hyper competitive. Speaking more broadly, when talking about the "We can tell when people are bad even with out a parser" we are referencing those Ice Mages or afkers who take the biggest exception to parsing. In savage content, you can bet your buns that if your team is failing DPS checks or hitting enrage that the veteran raiders will start looking very carefully at their fellow players. If they see a monk running all over the place, or noticing that there going longer periods without getting brotherhood than the CD is, theyre gonna know youre not doing something right and are contributing to the DPS failures. If they see tanks not properly CDing and getting hit way to hard for TBs, or getting vuln stacks that requires healers to heal more often, theyre gonna call out tanks. If theyre seeing healers hard casting healing way more often than what should be required, theyre gonna call out healers. At the higher tiers, it does become harder to tell who's flailing about, but at that tier either youre already parsing greens or better which most of this wouldnt apply to typically, or the veteran players will be paying attention enough to call you out on some of the smaller things.

Either way, the point still is you dont need a parser, even at higher levels, to see when people are slacking off or not cutting it. If youre doing your rotation right, avoiding damage, and completing mechanics, youre most likely hitting the required DPS to clear a savage unless your gear is lacking. And if the case is youre doing all the things right, you arent likely to be the one people are getting irritated at for concerns about DPS because you do not need purple and orange parses to clear savage.

I do run ACT, sometimes, but I keep it hidden until the run is complete, then I analyze what I did right or wrong. Unfortunately, it's pretty much useless if there were no other players of the same class and ilevel in the group to compare against. The ONLY time I care about how another player did is if they're also NIN, and a similar item level, so I can get a comparison of how I'm doing relative to them. (It is a pain to find their item level though, since I never inspect other players in game.)

I'd love to have a built-in private parser that shows my performance and actions relative to an average of the last 50 runs by other players of my class and item level (+/-10) Let me view it at the end of the run if I want more data, or ignore it. Personally, I need to know how I'm doing relative to similar players. How else do I know if I need to improve or not?
Just show me the average DPS for the run, and a pie chart showing the damage by action. If I see all the higher DPS players using action X far more often than I do, then maybe I need to start doing the same.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

That is the problem I have with adding them in game, people will use them in normal content to berate and harass other players. Making them readily available gives people the means to harass anyone at anytime. With the way it is now people have to care enough to install a third party tool, and they are not usually going to go through that much trouble to run it in DF content where hitting those numbers is really inconsequential. Some runs may take longer than others but my suggestion would be to not queue for roulettes if you are not prepared to spend more than the fastest run time on something.

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You understand ACT is like 3-4 steps right?
It's not like people can't figure it out because it's complicated. The hardest thing about running ACT is choosing a skin, and where to place it on your screen. Hell, their are even programs that open ACT/Close ACT when you open/close FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

If I was watching for all this stuff, (Assuming I could recognize other job's actions) I wouldn't contributing much to the group, since my full concentration is reserved for my actions and what the boss is doing.

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You're now the second person who seems to think I said I was watching absolutely everything.

It was just a list of the sort of things you can spot without parsers. That's it. Nothing special.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

If I was watching for all this stuff instead of performing the fight, (Assuming I could recognize other job's actions) I wouldn't contributing much to the group, since my full concentration is reserved for my actions and what the boss is doing.
I do run ACT, sometimes, but I keep it hidden until the run is complete, then I analyze what I did right or wrong. Unfortunately, it's pretty much useless if there were no other players of the same class and ilevel to compare against.

I'd love to have a built-in private parser that shows performance and action distribution for the last 50 runs of other players of my class and item level (+/-10) Let me view it at the end of the run if I want more data, or ignore it. Personally, I need to know how I'm doing relative to similar players. How else do I know if I need to improve or not?

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White mage is pretty simple. I just press 1 over and over and over and over and over, so it gives me a lot of time to think.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/6ab4...itemid=5121267

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I have already commented on my initial statement coming off as harsher than I intended, but the truth remains the same. No one should be utilizing outside sources to comment on another person's performance. If these tools were integrated into the game. Have at it. Also, my most recent posts have elaborated on my stance and in my opinion have been reasonable discussing how this game presents content to the player and what they are expected.

At the end of the day, be clear about what you want. Be upfront in your parties and let people be. And actually, I DO play this game alone 90 percent of the time except for roulettes and clearing a normal raid or dungeon for the first time. And in that content, unless you are wiping consistently, NO ONE should be commenting on someone's DPS performance. Save it for your Savage and Ultimate parties YOU created, with CLEAR RULES and UPFRONT PERIMETERS.

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What if I can see from the party list and animations you are playing poorly? What if, for example, I see all you are doing is hard casting Verthunder and Veraero and I don't see any fleche, contre sixta, swiftcast, melee combo or anything else you are supposed to be doing as a RDM? Not using a 3rd party tool, just seeing with my own eyes using in game resources that you are not play playing the job well. Can I comment on your play style then? You aren't gonna know if I am actually using a DPS meter or not, I could just say "Hey, you're only casting Verthunder. you want to..."

What if I make a Ex Trial farm party and I can see you are doing mechanics properly and not dying but same as above, but were not clearing and I see you are not playing your job properly, can I make comments then? Playing your job properly along with having up to date gear and not dying is what creates your DPS. DPS meters don't create these numbers from nothing. In group content that have DPS checks or enrage timer, your performance DOES affect the rest of the party. And if you are bringing unreasonably low DPS which causes the party to keep wiping to enrage timers, that is an issue.

As for your other comment, what am I gonna put in the PF for a farm party? "Bring high DPS" vs "Don't worry about what your DPS is" or "Low DPS is fine to join." Can't exactly say in game that you're using a parser to make sure overall DPS needed to clear the fight will be used. Even if I don't put anything in PF description other than "EX farm party", being able to do mechanics and bringing a reasonable/average amount of DPS is implied, enough DPS to clear the fight. Having enough DPS to clear a fight with an enrage timer IS a mechanic along with the ability to dodge AoEs and positioning yourself. The expectation to put "CLEAR RULES and UPFRONT PERIMETERS" with the way are putting it seems rather silly to me. You're right, SE hasn't put DPS meters in game, but there are still DPS requirements to meet DPS checks and enrage timers, which you obviously you know.

And if you join my party, I don't care that I don't pay your sub. You also aren't paying anyone elses either. The community is under no obligation to help you clear any content or carry you if dead weight. Joining other peoples parties is a privilege, not a right.

If a party can't clear content, and lets for arguments sake say everyone is doing mechanics perfectly each time and no one is dying, everyone but that one person doing average DPS but we keep hitting enrage, then we have 4 options that come to mind right away:
1) Disband, and maybe try to regroup, leaving you out and probably telling the other members that your DPS was terrible and reason they couldn't clear.
2) kick the low-performer who is pulling really low DPS and letting them know "Hey, your DPS is way to low and we carry your performance" and that might give you motivation to check to see if you are playing your job correct. You did say:

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

You are not paying for my subscription. You have no authority to dictate how I want to play or if I need to improve or not. End of the day. The game is designed a certain way without the use of damage meters. You should take the initiative to state VERY CLEARLY your requirements for a Savage Party or Ultimate party so people can choose whether or not to stay.

Also, I don't pay yours, so you have every right to not want to play with me. Personally, I wouldn't want to be in a party with you anyway since our game goals and motivations are obviously VERY different.

As for learning/clear parties, you have no right to be saying anything about anyone.

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so why should I help you try and improve? Saying your DPS is low or that you need to improve your rotation might be implying that I am using a DPS meter. (Also if someone is telling you this in a rude and nasty way, you still have the option to report them for their language)
3) Kick the low performer without saying anything as to why, so they are left in confusion as to why they were kicked. (saying nothing to you because of your quote above)
4) Everyone stays but we also take a little extra time and try to help the low performer, letting them know what they are doing wrong and how to improve. (This is ideally what I would like to try and do if the party is willing to wait and the low-performer is receptive and it is what I have done so in the past when able)

If we had someone with an attitude like yours in the party, then we only have 2 options, disband or kick you without saying anything. And there is probably no one who is going to want to help you improve. Now as I said to your original comment, I don't know what your DPS is and if you are actually good at playing your job, good for you. The above stated is just for example.

I agree with SE in that DPS meters should officially NOT be allowed, but at the same time, I do appreciate them turning a blind eye to people that still use them as long as they aren't toxic with it. I agree with others in that SE should implement a personal DPS meter that only reports your own numbers that only you can see. As for PS4 players currently, they can check if someone else in the party is paring and ask to let them know how they are doing. If PS4 players want to get a bit advanced, there are ways to hook your pS4 to your computer and have the computer parse while you play on PS4. That's more complicated than I care to explain here though.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

If I was watching for all this stuff instead of performing the fight, (Assuming I could recognize other job's actions) I wouldn't contributing much to the group, since my full concentration is reserved for my actions and what the boss is doing.
I do run ACT, sometimes, but I keep it hidden until the run is complete, then I analyze what I did right or wrong. Unfortunately, it's pretty much useless if there were no other players of the same class and ilevel to compare against.

I'd love to have a built-in private parser that shows my performance and actions relative to an average of the last 50 runs by other players of my class and item level (+/-10) Let me view it at the end of the run if I want more data, or ignore it. Personally, I need to know how I'm doing relative to similar players. How else do I know if I need to improve or not?

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I'm going to suggest XIVAnalysis to you. It's a really good tool to tell you how to play more optimally. If you have ever uploaded a run, you can take the link from that run, select your character, and it will tell you the mistakes you made, broken combos, over-capping on job gauges, etc.

ACT also has settings to only target yourself if you are running it, so you don't really need to hide it. (although, it does have some glitches, sometimes anyone who heals will appear on your list with 0 DPS, since you aren't actively tracking them. Just keep it in mind that if you track only yourself, you need to make sure to have room to track others still, since others might appear.)

DPS isn't really the thing you should be monitoring. DPS loss is a direct result of mistakes, so you should be figuring out your mistakes, which is why I recommend XIVAnalysis.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

That is the problem I have with adding them in game, people will use them in normal content to berate and harass other players. Making them readily available gives people the means to harass anyone at anytime. With the way it is now people have to care enough to install a third party tool, and they are not usually going to go through that much trouble to run it in DF content where hitting those numbers is really inconsequential. Some runs may take longer than others but my suggestion would be to not queue for roulettes if you are not prepared to spend more than the fastest run time on something.

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That's why you make it completely anonymous..Compare yourself only against other players of the same class who have run the same dungeon earlier, and only after the run is over.
I suppose you could have it reveal your relative performance during the fight as a simple number, since it wouldn't be comparing you against anyone in your group. If I saw that I was 49th in DPS of the last 50 Ninjas with my item level to run the same fight, maybe I should try harder, or get some sleep and try later :)

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

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Sieya kind of has a point. I want ACT, but it seems like a pain to install. Well, there's also the fact that it's kind of in a grey area in regards to the rules, so I'm too wary to install it.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

I'd love to have a built-in private parser that shows my performance and actions relative to an average of the last 50 runs by other players of my class and item level (+/-10) Let me view it at the end of the run if I want more data, or ignore it.

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Showing the average sounds ok.

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Originally Posted by Senn

Sieya kind of has a point. I want ACT, but it seems like a pain to install. Well, there's also the fact that it's kind of in a grey area in regards to the rules, so I'm too wary to install it.

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ACT is in a grey area because they don't want to encourage harassment.
If you install ACT, use it, and don't actively sport your numbers, or attack people for having low numbers - you are fine.

I don't think SE cares about people running ACT. I think SE cares about:

1) people getting kicked for low numbers/harassed for low numbers
2) Actively supporting a third party program

As far as installing it, I don't personally think it's complicated. If you need a guide and actually want to install it, it's like 5 minutes of a tutorial.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

I'm going to suggest XIVAnalysis to you. It's a really good tool to tell you how to play more optimally. If you have ever uploaded a run, you can take the link from that run, select your character, and it will tell you the mistakes you made, broken combos, over-capping on job gauges, etc.

ACT also has settings to only target yourself if you are running it, so you don't really need to hide it. (although, it does have some glitches, sometimes anyone who heals will appear on your list with 0 DPS, since you aren't actively tracking them. Just keep it in mind that if you track only yourself, you need to make sure to have room to track others still, since others might appear.)

DPS isn't really the thing you should be monitoring. DPS loss is a direct result of mistakes, so you should be figuring out your mistakes, which is why I recommend XIVAnalysis.

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XIVAnalysis is a good guideline but don't relay too much on it. There are times it flat out wrong happens a lot actually because it doesn't take in account somethings. There are times it said you clipped but you HAD to clip due to mechs, and some people think clipping is the end of the world when in some cases its a dps gain depending on the fight.
Cases with samurai, there are times you'll do yuki instead of gekko due to a certain part of mech but xiv will say you were wrong when players proved that doing X thing was a gain.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

XIVAnalysis is a good guideline but don't relay too much on it. There are times it flat out wrong happens a lot actually because it doesn't take in account somethings. There are times it said you clipped but you HAD to clip due to mechs, and some people think clipping is the end of the world when in some cases its a dps gain depending on the fight.
Cases with samurai, there are times you'll do yuki instead of gekko due to a certain part of mech but xiv will say you were wrong when players out proved that doing X thing was a gain.

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Oh yeah, of course.
Take everything with a grain of salt. It's just a really good tool for those looking to understand the classes they play, or to see how they can improve. It's not 100% accurate, just a great tool.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

I do run ACT, sometimes, but I keep it hidden until the run is complete, then I analyze what I did right or wrong. Unfortunately, it's pretty much useless if there were no other players of the same class and ilevel in the group to compare against.

I'd love to have a built-in private parser that shows my performance and actions relative to an average of the last 50 runs by other players of my class and item level (+/-10) Let me view it at the end of the run if I want more data, or ignore it. Personally, I need to know how I'm doing relative to similar players. How else do I know if I need to improve or not?
Just show me the average DPS for the run, and a pie chart showing the damage by action. If I see all the higher DPS players using action X far more often than I do, then maybe I need to start doing the same.

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Probably not just average but also highest recorded DPS for the same job.

Idk whats worse in the end, the fact that Yoshi P himself has broken down Twice his views on parsing and thats its not about a program being used, but the Harassment from some who use it. Or the fact that several people on this thread, and on the forums since HW have broken down what the issue with parsing is, and that all anyone is asking is the bare minimum.

The fact that the bare minimum is also an issue in the FIRST place is an issue, No one saying you have to be perfect, no ones Saying you have to be an Ultimate raider, but holy crap be willing to self improve IF YOU GO into EX and Savage, Thats literally all thats being said on the players end. And AGAIN, IF you EVER have someone in ANY run openly admitting to parsing and they are being a jerk, Report them, and If you aren't, realize YOU are part of this problem. Its as simple as that, arguing semantics, and basing all of this on emotions when there are so many logical ways to deal with all of this is honestly getting us no where as a comunity.

If you want to run EX and Savage and not parse, go learn your lvl 80 rotation, go spend time at the ShB Stone Sky Sea in Khlousia, Make sure you have pots and food, Its not fair for ANYONE to waste someone elses time, period, end of discussion.

If you're a raider/parser and you see a bad player, either nicely offer advice or kick them and leave it at that and move on, End of disccusion.

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Originally Posted by Thamorian

Probably not just average but also highest recorded DPS for the same job.

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If there is one thing someone shouldn't do is also look at the highest parses that are in the 100's and 99's.
Because not only are they good but they also have a very strong team. Since its group content, because there is only so much you can do alone.
Believe it or not but someone of the highest dps are not even more better that a person that has 95%
I'll say imo is look at the 85 percentiles for the average of your job.

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Originally Posted by Angus-Beef

If you want to run EX and Savage and not parse, go learn your lvl 80 rotation, go spend time at the ShB Stone Sky Sea in Khlousia, Make sure you have pots and food, Its not fair for ANYONE to waste someone elses time, period, end of discussion.

If you're a raider/parser and you see a bad player, either nicely offer advice or kick them and leave it at that and move on, End of disccusion.

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First want to apologize for coming off hostile and snarky if I did to you and thamorian.
But back to the topic.
This I agree with, as a former ps4 player. I gotten better from practicing my rotation and reading tips and tricks from my peers.
I had no access to parse to I was a disadvantage but over time I gotten better.

Going to contradict myself and say I do think it's not fair to be wasting people time and said person doesn't give a crap about improving and just freestyling.
However if the person is clearly trying then that's what I sympathize with since I use to be in the same shoes, not knowing Im underperforming.
If they're open to feedback and even leave the party themselves which actually has happened before, normally in savage.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

First want to apologize for coming off hostile and snarky if I did to you and thamorian.
But back to the topic.
This I agree with, as a former ps4 player. I gotten better from practicing my rotation and reading tips and tricks from my peers.
I had no access to parse to I was a disadvantage but over time I gotten better.

Going to contradict myself and say I do think it's not fair to be wasting people time and said person doesn't give a crap about improving and just freestyling.
However if the person is clearly trying then that's what I sympathize with since I use to be in the same shoes, not knowing Im underperforming.
If they're open to feedback and even leave the party themselves which actually has happened before, normally in savage.

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Oh theres no need to apologize, topics get heated.
But I do wants to say I also agree, if I see a person trying, I will take all the time needed to help/ I personally love helping others in FF, from basic mechanics to learning fights. But when I see a lazy player, casual or someone raiding, I just feel the best choice is to kick and move on.

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Originally Posted by Angus-Beef

Oh theres no need to apologize, topics get heated.
But I do wants to say I also agree, if I see a person trying, I will take all the time needed to help/ I personally love helping others in FF, from basic mechanics to learning fights. But when I see a lazy player, casual or someone raiding, I just feel the best choice is to kick and move on.

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Yeah kicking is pretty much the only thing you can do.
Sometimes you wonder how they even got that far in savage.
Though I don't like kicking people, sometimes it has to be done if you want to clear.
It's a shame in our community lots of people take constructive criticism as an insult rather than taking it in stride to get better.
They either ignore you or blow up and yell at you.

But then you get that rare gem that change up their playstyle and start doing the advice they was given, its honestly cute too xD
Like beginner samurai not putting up their dot then they start trying to or the blm using fire 3 now to get out if ice stance instead if using fire 1 and trying to keep up their thunder.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

While I understand what your saying, even for EX, Savage and Ultimate the game still isn't designed to take into account an outside Damage Meter and analyzing numbers. It truly comes down to mechanics.

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I'm going to back track a little bit. This point of yours is rather dubious and a *VERY* shaky foundation to build your case from.

First off. It's really important to stress that this game does an appalling job of giving players feedback in far more ways than just any lack of a personal or group DPS meter. Try to keep a track of your dot damage in even a simple dungeon. It's nigh unfeasible on anything more than a single target static dummy. And of course it goes much further than that. Things such as crit/dhit ratios, relative stat values and more are kept in the dark from us.

If you make even modest attempts to push and improve your standards of play, chances are you are doing so through the use of data, rotations and materia selections that were derived from parser data even if you yourself are not the one actually running the parser. SMN was widely viewed as hot garbage out of the gate in the beginnings of ARR because it just wasn't clear how much damage it was doing until someone figured out how to calculate and parse it.

Secondly. Gordias called, it wants it's burst windows back. Whilst it's true that both EX and Savage are more watered down and easier than they have ever been, DPS requirements can still be pretty strict in early progression pushes and the majority of groups clearing a new Savage tier within the first few weeks will typically need to do a healthy amount of optimisation to achieve this without bouncing off enrage. Optimisation that simply isn't possible with the tools or lack of provided by the game itself.

If the content stopped at normal mode raids, EX trials and 24 man, I'd 100% agree with your sentiment. However it doesn't, so I don't. There are occasions where bursts of DPS are a mechanic in themselves even if they aren't as commonplace or harsh as they used to be in the past.

Please try to remember that whilst you might look at more recent content and wonder what us old timers are blathering about, we're still looking back at content like A3S and A6S. It's very difficult for us to ignore and forget the standards of play that that era of content required of us.

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Originally Posted by AbelArchaniEA

Players will continue to parse and posts parse meters on streams. They will not get banned. There was nothing stalwart about it.

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Arthars disagrees.