What makes WHM special? Nothing anymore.

@Blood-Aki This is not how a good game design goes. I have played all FFs before, and the one thing I learned is that everything, even outdated abilities can have a good use in certain situations. Adding utility to a skill that would be replaced not only makes it have a situational use beyond LV54 but enhances low-level gameplay. There are a lot of players coming to the game after Heavensward. We didn't need it before because Stone 2 was our best spammable spell after Holy.

@EinherjarLucian I would be happy enough with more procs for "chain healing" just like we have for targeted healing (Cure > Freecure > Cure II > Overcure > Cure III) but for AOE. Enhanced Medica could proc with Medica or Medica II to make the next Medica spell have increased range to 20 yalms or cost less MP.

There are a lot of things that can be done with only traits to make WHM more unique, like adding a "Cup of Life" Trait that returns X% of the overhealed amount to the caster, they could also add a single target Haste spell with long cooldown (most previous FF had Haste as a WHM spell), or create a "Pray" skills that heals for a minimal amount all the party members without costing any MP, so we could try to save our DPS friend who is stuck with 10% health at 90 yalms from you.

For a bigger change, since everyone now have HoTs, and SCH is the Shield Healer, AST is the Lightspeed Healer, WHM could be even more of an AOE healer, with better range for all skills.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

What WHM has that AST doesn't:
-an AoE that heals everyone for 300, damages all enemies for 300 AND restores 10% of my mana

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DS is def a good WHM skill, most everything else the AST has access to in one shape or form

You really cant weigh assize as heavily as you do.
Because of stats you really only have the choice between dmg in cleric stance OR healing out of cleric stance because at any given time one of them is going to be pitiful.

But the major part you're missing here is that MP management is a system and not limited to one particular skill.
Assize as a part of an MP management system is restrictive. If you blindly use it on cd, the 300 potency may not be used as efficiently as it could have been which lowers your mp efficiency, but the longer you wait to use it the more you miss out on the its MP restore.


AST MP management is much more flexible. LA can be used in conjunction with Spear if you want. You can use or save ewer to help with MP, give ewer to the other healer, OR do something else entirely and try for a party DPS increase instead.

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Seriously, go level AST to 60, and when your static leader politely but forcefully asks to to go back to WHM, maybe THEN you'll get the message.

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How bout you level WHM to 60?

Honestly stop with the whining threads, i'm so SICK of all these idiots(yes idiots) Calling out they need a buff for their "oh so favorite" class when ever a different class gets a buff and now outshines(Ahem... right) them in a area. And now makes you what? Heal less? Nope, Exactly, nothing changed on your class, and its not just on FFXIV, its on every game now a days, Spoiled little children whining about buffs and asking for nerfs(Not in this thread i guess)

Jesus, play your class have fun stop whining. (Y)

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Originally Posted by winsock

AST MP management is much more RNG. LA can be used in conjunction with Spear if you want. You can use or save ewar to help with MP, give ewar to the other healer, OR do something else entirely and try for a party DPS increase instead.

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I fixed this for you.

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Originally Posted by J-Dax

I fixed this for you.

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Right, cause WHM doesnt deal with RNG in MP management. /sarcasm

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Originally Posted by winsock

Right, cause WHM doesnt deal with RNG in MP management. /sarcasm

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Then I suppose that makes them equal?

Not really when taken into consideration a WHM has a % chance of a specific action causing a specific effect. Where as cards are a % chance of drawing one of 6 effects.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

@EinherjarLucian I would be happy enough with more procs for "chain healing" just like we have for targeted healing (Cure > Freecure > Cure II > Overcure > Cure III) but for AOE. Enhanced Medica could proc with Medica or Medica II to make the next Medica spell have increased range to 20 yalms or cost less MP.

There are a lot of things that can be done with only traits to make WHM more unique, like adding a "Cup of Life" Trait that returns X% of the overhealed amount to the caster, they could also add a single target Haste spell with long cooldown (most previous FF had Haste as a WHM spell), or create a "Pray" skills that heals for a minimal amount all the party members without costing any MP, so we could try and sabe our DPS friend who is stuck at 10% health at 90 yalms from you.

For a bigger change, since everyone now have HoTs, and SCH is the Shield Healer, AST is the Lightspeed Healer, WHM could be even more of an AOE healer, with better range for all skills.

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Okay, here we go! These are great ideas. "Better AoE Radius". Maybe some CDs that give you a guaranteed proc of Freecure and/or Overcure, like the Reload mechanic for MCH, or like Sharpcast. Maybe a literal "chain heal" spell that bounces from target to target, like that spell in WoW; you can cast it on the closest person and it will bounce its way over to someone who really needs it. Whole-Arena or very-long-range heals (maybe a CD that gives you +100y radius and range on your next healing spell?)

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Originally Posted by EinherjarLucian

Okay, here we go! These are great ideas. "Better AoE Radius". Maybe some CDs that give you a guaranteed proc of Freecure and/or Overcure, like the Reload mechanic for MCH, or like Sharpcast. Maybe a literal "chain heal" spell that bounces from target to target, like that spell in WoW; you can cast it on the closest person and it will bounce its way over to someone who really needs it. Whole-Arena or very-long-range heals (maybe a CD that gives you +100y radius and range on your next healing spell?)

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Exactly! OF COURSE it would need balance, but if something like this was to be implemented, we could have three very different healers and AST wouldn't be just an hybrid also, so it's a win-win situation.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Exactly! OF COURSE it would need balance, but if something like this was to be implemented, we could have three very different healers and AST wouldn't be just an hybrid also, so it's a win-win situation.

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Except range buffs brings nothing new to the table as every class should be near the boss at all times for both dodging and more efficient healing. Ever wondered why conic aoes are getting larger on every patch?

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Originally Posted by mp-please

Except range buffs brings nothing new to the table as every class should be near the boss at all times for both dodging and more efficient healing. Ever wondered why conic aoes are getting larger on every patch?

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Range do make difference in various situations, and it's the best I can think without anyone screming "OVERPOWERED" to my face. But my post wasn't just about range, if you read it right, it's about going back to the root of a WHM and bring it to this game.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Range do make difference in various situations, and it's the best I can think without anyone screming "OVERPOWERED" to my face. But my post wasn't just about range, if you read it right, it's about going back to the root of a WHM and bring it to this game.

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It doesn't make any difference because positionals are part of the game. While not too straightforward as melee dps positionals, a good healer needs to know where to stand and a good ranged dps needs to know where to stand to get healed, dps and possibly buff everyone (for example, bards).
Like i mentioned previously, conic aoes are getting bigger each patch to teach everyone to stand close to each other regardless arena size.

About overpowered, White mage is fine and is quite balanced, the issue is that SE wants us to burst heal and burst dps and then we have accuracy and SE giving other healers our exact same core healing toolkit and easier methods to dps. And like i mentioned previously on this thread, overgear kills the need for burst heal and with our dps being unreliable the class becomes rather useless while still viable for content.

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Originally Posted by mp-please

It doesn't make any difference because positionals are part of the game. While not too straightforward as melee dps positionals, a good healer needs to know where to stand and a good ranged dps needs to know where to stand to get healed, dps and possibly buff everyone (for example, bards).
Like i mentioned previously, conic aoes are getting bigger each patch to teach everyone to stand close to each other regardless arena size.

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And what's your idea for differentiating us more without other healer jobs feeling frightened?

HoTs are no more the defining feature of WHM than Shields are the defining feature of SCH (as WHM always had a Shield in Stoneskin and SCH has always had a HoT in Whispering Dawn), but both of these being present are factored into healing checks when balancing content. Therefore, AST needed to have one or the other, and SE wanted a situation in which all three non-stacking healer combinations were viable. This means that when paired with a WHM, AST would need Shields and with a SCH, AST would need HoTs, which led to the implementation of the stance system.

WHM's identity is high healing thoroughput/burst healing in the same way that PLD's identity centers around greater defense than the other two tanks. It still has the highest output and the widest array of burst healing cooldowns--AST didn't touch any of that.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Right, cause WHM doesnt deal with RNG in MP management. /sarcasm

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Well, I'd say there is a very big difference in opportunity cost here. Every ewer or spear you actually use on yourself to deal with your own mp issues comes at the cost of the expand/extend buffs from royal road or just possibly another buff (most preferably one to increase the parties dps) through the use of shuffle. Whereas the only drawback to freecure, and the other cost reducing traits, is perhaps extra enmity. That enmity, by the way, will be continuously cut in half by shroud of saints so over the course of a long encounter it is negligible.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

Well, I'd say there is a very big difference in opportunity cost here. Every ewer or spear you actually use on yourself to deal with your own mp issues comes at the cost of the expand/extend buffs from royal road or just possibly another buff (most preferably one to increase the parties dps) through the use of shuffle. Whereas the only drawback to freecure, and the other cost reducing traits, is perhaps extra enmity. That enmity, by the way, will be continuously cut in half by shroud of saints so over the course of a long encounter it is negligible.

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To be fair, WHM has more reliable MP recovery (Assize + Shroud) than AST anyways; freecure is just icing on the cake, and more comparable to Ewer being drawn. Assize is it's own little tool, and AST doesn't have anything similar.

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Originally Posted by J-Dax

Then I suppose that makes them equal?

Not really when taken into consideration a WHM has a % chance of a specific action causing a specific effect. Where as cards are a % chance of drawing one of 6 effects.

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Lol
Ewer ~17% chance while cure II proc is 15% and requires you to be in a situation were it's is appropriate to cast cure I to get the proc. The effect of The Ewer is also greater, and can be further enhanced via double duration or increased effect.

Not only that, but Ewer isnt the only card that helps with MP. The Bole and The Spear can also help. 50% chance to get one of the 3 in your first draw, 75% chance you're willing to use shuffle.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Lol
Ewer ~17% chance while cure II proc is 15% and requires you to be in a situation were it's is appropriate to cast cure I to get the proc. The effect of The Ewer is also greater, and can be further enhanced via double duration or increased effect.

Not only that, but Ewer isnt the only card that helps with MP. The Bole and The Spear can also help. 50% chance to get one of the 3 in your first draw, 75% chance you're willing to use shuffle.

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Any card used for MP has a significant opportunity cost, which is equal to the DPS you lose by not using Royal Road with the card to buff the next one. Freecure's cost is part of your normal activity and so its opportunity cost is much lower.

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Originally Posted by GideonHighmourn

To be fair, WHM has more reliable MP recovery (Assize + Shroud) than AST anyways; freecure is just icing on the cake, and more comparable to Ewer being drawn. Assize is it's own little tool, and AST doesn't have anything similar.

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This

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Originally Posted by winsock

Lol
Ewer ~17% chance while cure II proc is 15% and requires you to be in a situation were it's is appropriate to cast cure I to get the proc. The effect of The Ewer is also greater, and can be further enhanced via double duration or increased effect.

Not only that, but Ewer isnt the only card that helps with MP. The Bole and The Spear can also help. 50% chance to get one of the 3 in your first draw, 75% chance you're willing to use shuffle.

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How do you get 75% shuffle doesn't increase your chances of pulling a card anymore than buying multiple lottery tickets will increase your chances of winning.

Also this is beside the point of WHM still has its identity nothing was taken from WHM.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Lol
Ewer ~17% chance while cure II proc is 15% and requires you to be in a situation were it's is appropriate to cast cure I to get the proc. The effect of The Ewer is also greater, and can be further enhanced via double duration or increased effect.

Not only that, but Ewer isnt the only card that helps with MP. The Bole and The Spear can also help. 50% chance to get one of the 3 in your first draw, 75% chance you're willing to use shuffle.

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No idea why i am replying since your comparison is utterly retarded but here we go.
You can draw once every 15 max together with 1 time more every minute if you use shuffle on cd.
How many times can you proc freecure exactly? Oh yea about every cure possible.
I am also really curious how in the world spear helps with mana unless you draw it right before you use your LA.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

Well, I'd say there is a very big difference in opportunity cost here. Every ewer or spear you actually use on yourself to deal with your own mp issues comes at the cost of the expand/extend buffs from royal road or just possibly another buff (most preferably one to increase the parties dps) through the use of shuffle. Whereas the only drawback to freecure, and the other cost reducing traits, is perhaps extra enmity. That enmity, by the way, will be continuously cut in half by shroud of saints so over the course of a long encounter it is negligible.

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This is the beauty of AST class design. You can pull back party support for MP and vice versa.

Compare this with Assize: spam on gcd and lose healing efficiency, dont spam and lose MP restore efficiency. No tradeoff, just varying degrees of loss.

Compared with WHM RNG: WHM has little to no control when the proc hits. If what you're healing calls for cure I, using the cure II proc is a waste of potency, but while the its proc'd subsequent cure I's wont proc, you could wait a bit for your healing target, but if you cant wait at least a cleric stance cycle you're just idling. again, varying degrees of loss.

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Originally Posted by winsock

This is the beauty of AST class design. You can pull back party support for MP and vice versa.

Compare this with Assize: spam on gcd and lose healing efficiency, dont spam and lose MP restore efficiency. No tradeoff, just varying degrees of loss.

*snip*

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In your average situation, in my experience, it's pretty rare to be in a situation where you don't have a use for free cure or the heal part of assize.

Extra point about assize, if there was no way to get even a bit of a heal out of it then the party is taking no damage, giving the opportunity to use it for dps, because it has that kind of flexibility. Free of charge, besides needing to go into cleric stance at least (but there's no damage, so plenty of leeway).

You talk about varying degrees of loss, but the cost of using ewer/spear for mp out weighs any possible loss from assize or a free cure 2. It would be a different story if you could exchange that free cure proc for something else. As it stands right now, the free cure 2 and assize are just extra mp with very little opportunity cost.

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Originally Posted by winsock

This is the beauty of AST class design. You can pull back party support for MP and vice versa.

Compare this with Assize: spam on gcd and lose healing efficiency, dont spam and lose MP restore efficiency. No tradeoff, just varying degrees of loss.

Compared with WHM RNG: WHM has little to no control when the proc hits. If what you're healing calls for cure I, using the cure II proc is a waste of potency, but while the its proc'd subsequent cure I's wont proc, you could wait a bit for your healing target, but if you cant wait at least a cleric stance cycle you're just idling. again, varying degrees of loss.

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Wait a second.
You are arguing that AST has actually less RNG then WHM?
Excuse me, do you live on another planet where ast has pure control over their card draw?

We can't pull back back party suport and vice versa. We got 1 card we can lock, the rest is all up to fate.
Today i was in fractal and from the second boss on till the last boss was dead i tried every way to get a balance card by drawing and suffling on cd.
I never got it. But please keep going on how we seemingly got any control over our cards.

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Originally Posted by J-Dax

How do you get 75% shuffle doesn't increase your chances of pulling a card anymore than buying multiple lottery tickets will increase your chances of winning.

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You're making 2 different comparisons here.


First a simplified lottery example cause it's the easiest to explain (this isnt how AST works btw:
Let's say i put 10 marbles into a bag and one if them is red. If you draw the red marble you win, if you dont, you get to keep the marble. Since the marbles don't go back into the bag, if you played 10 times you would absolutely win.

AST doesnt work like that though. A simple comparison to AST RNG would be more like: You flip a coin 2 times, what is the chance of it landing on heads at least once? You determine this by first finding all possible outcomes (this is very comparable to the ast example i gave you because if you want 1 of 3 cards in a deck of 6 i.e. 3/6 = 1/2):
Heads, Heads
Heads, Tails
Tails, Heads
Tails, Tails

^ There are 3 combinations out of 4 possible outcomes that hit heads at least once. 3/4 is a 75% chance.

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Originally Posted by winsock

You're making 2 different comparison here.


First a simplified lottery example cause it's the easiest to explain (this isnt how AST works btw:
Let's say if put 10 marbles into a bag and one if them is red. If you draw the red marble you win, if you dont, you get to keep the marble. Since the marbles don't go back into the bag, if you played 10 times you would absolutely win.

AST doesnt work like that though. A simple comparison to AST RNG would be more like: You flip a coin 2 times, what is the chance of it landing on heads once? You determine this by first finding all possible outcomes (this is very comparable to the ast example i gave you because if you want 1 of 3 cards in a deck of 6 i.e. 3/6 = 1/2):
Heads, Heads
Heads, Tails
Tails, Heads
Tails, Tails

^ There are 3 combinations out of 4 possible that hit heads at least once. 3/4 is a 75% chance.

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Thats not how the lottery works btw and its called a gamblers fallacy.
AST cards work in a similiar manner just smaller number pool. You have a 1 in 6 chance of drawing a card, period. Each draw is its own separate event, giving you the same chance of pulling a particular card.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

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Originally Posted by Assirra

Wait a second.

Excuse me, do you live on another planet where ast has pure control over their card draw?

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U've been using some very dramatic language. "do you live on another panel" "utterly retarded". As if criticism of AST is aim at you personally. It isnt that deep. We're all friends here!

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You are arguing that AST has actually less RNG then WHM?

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Technically it does use a RNG less frequently.

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We can't pull back back party suport and vice versa. We got 1 card we can lock, the rest is all up to fate.
Today i was in fractal and from the second boss on till the last boss was dead i tried every way to get a balance card by drawing and suffling on cd.
I never got it. But please keep going on how we seemingly got any control over our cards.

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Dungeons are even more flexible. Yes, you have control. You are not helpless. Lets assume you never once draw balance or arrow during a dungeon run.
Bole, less dmg on tank means more time for you to DPS.
Spear, good on nin, bard, and mch. You could also decrease you tank's cd or reducing your own LA/Synastry cd to help you increase your own dps.
TP, depends on party comp and what you're doing, TP can help many classes sustain AoE damage.
Ewer depends on comp and what youre doing.

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Originally Posted by J-Dax

Thats not how the lottery works btw and its called a gamblers fallacy.
AST cards work in a similiar manner just smaller number pool. You have a 1 in 6 chance of drawing a card, period. Each draw is its own separate event, giving you the same chance of pulling a particular card.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

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That is not the Gambler Fallacy.
The gambler fallacy would be like: "I drew Spire 3 times in a row, so the next one cant be Spire" or "I drew Spire 3 times in a row, so the next one will be Spire"

Gambler fallacy applies to the lottery when ppl say numbers like 1,2,3,4,5 has less of a chance to win vs something like 23,54,78,65,12

Just a quick example to show you why these are different. Flip a coin 10 times, if heads lands at least once, you win, if it never appears you lose. See how many times you can flip the coin in a set of 10, without it landing on heads once. By you're logic, about half of your sets of 10s will be all tails. This will not be the case.

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Originally Posted by winsock

That is not the Gambler Fallacy.
The gambler fallacy would be like: "I drew Spire 3 times in a row, so the next one cant be Spire" or "I drew Spire 3 times in a row, so the next one will be Spire"

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The gambler's fallacy, also known as the Monte Carlo fallacy or the fallacy of the maturity of chances, is the mistaken belief that, if something happens more frequently than normal during some period, it will happen less frequently in the future, or that, if something happens less frequently than normal during some period, it will happen more frequently in the future (presumably as a means of balancing nature). In situations where what is being observed is truly random (i.e., independent trials of a random process),

The idea that the lottery works like drawing marbles out of a bag until you win is a gamblers fallacy.

The point is if it is truly random, then probability doesn't change between draws as long as each individual draw maintains the same amount of possible outcomes.
The chance of drawing spire is 1 in 6. If I shuffle its still only 1 in 6. Drawing more than once does not effect this unless shuffle removes the possibility of drawing spire again.

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Originally Posted by Slib

[clutch healing tricks]

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Thanks! I'll try this next lockout!

Why people keep bringing AST into the table? This is nothing about ASTs, if you disagree about WHM needing changes then why forcing a debate about another class here?

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Originally Posted by J-Dax

The gambler's fallacy, also known as the Monte Carlo fallacy or the fallacy of the maturity of chances, is the mistaken belief that, if something happens more frequently than normal during some period, it will happen less frequently in the future, or that, if something happens less frequently than normal during some period, it will happen more frequently in the future (presumably as a means of balancing nature). In situations where what is being observed is truly random (i.e., independent trials of a random process),

The idea that drawing more than once increases or decreases the likely hood of an outcome is gamblers fallacy.

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Lol this is not the gambler fallacy.
Flip a coin in sets of 10.
Count how many sets where heads appears at least once.
Count how many times you get an entire set of tails.
by your logic they should be 50/50. but that is not the case

There is only one possible outcome for "TTTTTTTTTT" but there are several possible outcomes that contain at least 1 head, each possible outcome has an equal chance of appearing, but there are more outcomes that contain at least 1 H

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Originally Posted by winsock

Lol this is not the gambler fallacy.
Flip a coin in sets of 10.
Count how many sets where heads appears at least once.
Count how many times you get an entire set of tails.
by your logic they should be 50/50. but that is not the case

There is only one possible outcome for "TTTTTTTTTT" but there are several possible outcomes that contain at least 1 head, each possible outcome has an equal chance of appearing, but there are more outcomes that contain at least 1 H

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You could roll 100 tails at once, though. The chance of rolling Tails again on your next roll is still 50%. Thinking otherwise is Gambler's Fallacy.

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Originally Posted by Proteus6

But the AST's HoT actually comes with a front loaded heal (which the WHM does not), so just comparing the HoT portion is misleading. They are equivalent really, and your comparison doesn't account for it.

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Aspected benfic:
190 Cure +140 for 18 sec = 2710

Regen:
150 for 21 sec = 3150

WHM comes a bit slower but gets a MUCH better deal overall, here. It gets MORE healing for LESS MP.

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Does the WHM really have a better bubble? The AST's has both damage reduction and a linger HoT that does not require standing in the bubble. That seems more flexible from a raid perspective to me.

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A bubble which has to be channeled to maintain it is definitely not more "flexible". I'd much, MUCH rather have a bubble I can throw down, then proceed to follow up with other healing. AST can't do that, and while the ticking HoT afterwards is nice, the AST is literally putting the raid into the hands of the other healer because you KNOW they're not going to be keeping the raid up with a 150 potency tick...

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Does the WHM really have better mana recovery? The AST can add an additional 5 seconds onto their LA, no? I don't know if this balances out the recovery of Assize, but also in addition to Ewer? I wouldn't say it's a surefire win, and someone else in this thread clearly stated that in identical encounters, they had better mana management with their AST over their WHM.

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Assize is an AMAZING ability. 10% mana recovery guaranteed every 90 seconds is vastly better than praying that you draw an Ewer when you can use it (ie when you don't have something else RRed that you cannot afford to lose). Then, there's the fact that Assize is also a magnificent "OH SHI-" button as it does an AoE heal to boot.

Also, using CO to extend your LA 5 seconds would be criminal: you'd barely get any usage out of it and you'd MUCH rather be trying to hit your entire party with it while they have an expanded balance on them.

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I understand that the WHM does have better range and slightly better cooldowns. I am still trying to figure out which class to take into end game, but I think your list was clearly one-sided and not helpful, other than as a rhetorical bludgeon perhaps.

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The list is accurate, as I just demonstrated.

WHM is, bar none, the best healer. I like AST because it challenges me to try to squeeze more out of the class via micromanaging. Really, it's down to personal preference (as it should be) as hopefully AST can at least hold its own as a healer now as it was a joke before.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

I just wanted to clarify that Synastry's potency boost does affect HoTs. I've tested it several times. :)

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Then it's a bug and they need to fix it, as the tooltip says otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Feel free to mock whoever you want Richard, it certainly reveals more about your personality than those you are mocking.

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I haven't directly mocked anyone and I don't intend to.

The simple fact is this: WHM is the vanilla healer. The thing that makes it unique is that it has the best healing throughput of all healers. It doesn't have a gimmick like a fairy or a deck of cards (that loves to f**k you over all the time) because it doesn't NEED either one. If someone can't outheal an AST on a WHM, the problem isn't with either class.

Asking that WHM be made "unique" may as well be asking that BRD be given a turret because it's the "vanilla" ranged physical DPS, or PLD get Darkside because it's the "vanilla" tank.

And furthermore, what reeks of hypocrisy in all of this is that, BEFORE this patch, WHMs weren't complaining up a storm about how "vanilla" their class was. So you felt unique as long as AST was sh*t, but now that they're not, "OH WE'RE NOT SPECIAL ANYMORE!!!!", despite still having THE BEST healing throughput for mana spent in the game?

The only buff WHM needs is to have super virus.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Lol this is not the gambler fallacy.
Flip a coin in sets of 10.
Count how many sets where heads appears at least once.
Count how many times you get an entire set of tails.
by your logic they should be 50/50. but that is not the case

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This is the case each flip is its own separate event, previous or subsequent flips do not effect outcomes. When you flip the coin once, you have a 50/50 chance of getting heads. The next flip is also a 50/50 chance of getting heads, weather you had heads before or not.

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Originally Posted by winsock

If what you're healing calls for cure I, using the cure II proc is a waste of potency

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It's not a waste of anything. Whether you get the full potency or not, free is free. It's still healing at no cost to mp. It's still a 100% net gain if it heals 5 hp or 5000.

Of course, the more you get out of it the better, but even if you are only getting a cure I's worth of healing from it you're still saving mp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J-Dax

This is the case each flip is its own separate event, previous or subsequent flips do not effect outcomes. When you flip the coin once, you have a 50/50 chance of getting heads. The next flip is also a 50/50 chance of getting heads, weather you had heads before or not.

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The previous flips to not impact subsequent outcomes. This is true. But you're looking at the chance of something occurring within a certain number of attempts
To simplify, let's say AST flips coins. For an encounter, you only have time to flip your coin 3 times. Your possible flips for the encounter are:
HHH
HHT
HTH
HTT
THH
THT
TTH
TTT

There is an equal chance for any of the above combinations to be the combination you get during the run. "TTT" has the same chance of appearing as "HTH" or "THT" or "HHH". However, there are 7 outcomes that would allow you to get at least 1 H during the encounter. 7/8 outcomes means you have a 87.5% chance of getting at least 1 H over the course of 3 flips.

What Winsock is saying is something everyone learns at 6th grade math.

Remember the exercises about: in a box with balls numbered from 1 to nine, if you draw X balls 3 times, returning the balls after each draw, what's the chance of the number combination having the number Y?

And please, enough with AST. If people can come up with ideas to make WHM more unique I would be forever grateful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Aspected benfic:
190 Cure +140 for 18 sec = 2710

Regen:
150 for 21 sec = 3150

WHM comes a bit slower but gets a MUCH better deal overall, here. It gets MORE healing for LESS MP.

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HoTs/DoTs tick every server tick, which is every 3s.
So,
Aspected Benefic: 1030 potency
Regen: 1050 potency

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EinherjarLucian

You could roll 100 tails at once, though. The chance of rolling Tails again on your next roll is still 50%. Thinking otherwise is Gambler's Fallacy.

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You do not understand how probability works...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by winsock

The previous flips to not impact subsequent outcomes. This is true. But you're looking at the chance of something occurring within a certain number of attempts
To simplify, let's say AST flips coins. For an encounter, you only have time to flip your coin 3 times. Your possible flips for the encounter are:
HHH
HHT
HTH
HTT
THH
THT
TTH
TTT

There is an equal chance for any of the above combinations to be the combination you get during the run. "TTT" the same chance of appearing as "HTH" or "THT" or "HHH". However, there are 7 outcomes that would allow you to get at least 1 H during the encounter. 7/8 outcomes means you have a 87.5% chance of getting at least 1 H over the course of 3 draws.

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Here are the probabilities.
Three cards are favorable, three cards aren't. For simplification we will equate favorable to heads and unfavorable to tails.

The probability of getting heads in three attempts is 85%. The inverse must also be true meaning the probability of getting tails is also 85% It is just as likely that after three attempts I will pull a favorable outcome as it is I will pull an unfavorable one or 50/50.


This all still is off the original topic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Houston009

HoTs/DoTs tick every server tick, which is every 3s.
So,
Aspected Benefic: 1030 potency
Regen: 1050 potency

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Understood, still a net gain for less mana.