We have finally come full circle, SMN's need help!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

The only problem about SMN is that it's by far the hardest job to play and 95% playing this game are horrendously bad, thus everybody complaining about SMN. Get some Piety to your relic, use Pineapple juice...and bam...mana problems are no longer an issue, but no, better spend 10 million gil in 30 useless points of determination/crit that will boost your dmg by an astonishing...1%, while your BRD loses 20% of it because they have to sing ballad for you.

No wonder SE doesn't want parsers in this game, it would only reflect the incompetence of 95% of the player database.

---

If trolling make you feel better good for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

The only problem about SMN is that it's by far the hardest job to play and 95% playing this game are horrendously bad, thus everybody complaining about SMN. Get some Piety to your relic, use Pineapple juice...and bam...mana problems are no longer an issue, but no, better spend 10 million gil in 30 useless points of determination/crit that will boost your dmg by an astonishing...1%, while your BRD loses 20% of it because they have to sing ballad for you.

No wonder SE doesn't want parsers in this game, it would only reflect the incompetence of 95% of the player database.

---

lol yea cuz 200ish extra MP will DEFINITELY fix SMN. you should work for SE. you'd be of great help to them :D

And yet these replies further state the ignorance of the people playing this game. An i125 weapon can have up to 37 piety. Pineapple juice gives 17 piety.

54 piety are NOT 200 mp. Each point of piety roughly equals 7.2 MP, which means that 54 points of piety give you roughly 400 mp, not 200. Your mana ticks happen every 3 seconds and they have a 2% regen of your total mana (under combat). That means that 400 mp net you:

1 - 8 mp more every 3 seconds.
2 - greater pool of mana.
3 - greater mana regen through aetherflow too.

Do yourselves a favour. Buy a keeper's hymn (not the 37 piety from relic but will work too). Change your points from int to piety. Buy a pineapple juice. Go to a dummy. Start DPSing. When you guys get to your retirement pension and still don't have mana issues, we can continue having this conversation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

And yet these replies further state the ignorance of the people playing this game. An i125 weapon can have up to 37 piety. Pineapple juice gives 17 piety.

54 piety are NOT 200 mp. Each point of piety roughly equals 7.2 MP, which means that 54 points of piety give you roughly 400 mp, not 200. Your mana ticks happen every 3 seconds and they have a 2% regen of your total mana (under combat). That means that 400 mp net you:

1 - 8 mp more every 3 seconds.
2 - greater pool of mana.
3 - greater mana regen through aetherflow too.

Do yourselves a favour. Buy a keeper's hymn (not the 37 piety from relic but will work too). Change your points from int to piety. Buy a pineapple juice. Go to a dummy. Start DPSing. When you guys get to your retirement pension and still don't have mana issues, we can continue having this conversation.

---

So with all your stats focused on MP regen mind showing us how your damage compares to all the other DPS jobs that are just stacking damage stats with no resource worries at all? If SMN were balanced around needing to build for MP regen then fine, but the job isn't, you're basically describing a workaround that sacrifices damage (though possibly less than running out of MP) but doesn't actually fix the issue here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atomnium

So, there again, using energy drain over fester is a "deserved punishment" for you even though the dps loss is kind of unfair when you are directly in competition for tight dps check fights :/
Where you see being greedy with mana, I just see DPS optimization to be honest.

---

While I see your point, I don't disagree with Crevox's point either. Part of mastering a class is understand your strengths and limitations. Generally, optimized DPS comes with a price in resources usage and that's part of understanding your job.

However, two defining points run counter to this:
-TP based DPS almost always have a BRD available to play Paeon for them, this negating their resource issue
-SMN is compared to another job with the exact same gear choices that have LIMITLESS resources

Effectively, this removes the resource management aspect of every DPS job BUT SMN. As many have rightfully pointed out, there's no point for a BRD to play Ballad's for one DPS. However, this isn't an excuse for SMNs to forgo the tools given for them to go nuts on the "optimized DPS train". Unfortunately, this also makes SMN inherently weaker because they can't "go nuts" compared to the other DPS.

There are two ways to fix this aspect of SMN resource management:
(1) Make SMN more self-sustainable like BLM
(2) Rework BLM so instead of having limitless resources, they have a finite amount as well (thus giving more reason for a BRD to use Ballad in the first place)

This resource issue that SMNs face may also become less pronounce as more MP based DPS are introduced, increasing the need for BRD to play Ballads for their group to help sustain DPS. If S-E introduces a MP-DPS that has single target LB, that'll put BRD in an interesting position for TP if you got SMN/BLM/BRD/MP-DPS composition as there is more reason to play Ballad (that affects three DPS + healers) versus Paeon (which will affect the BRD + tanks). But we'll see if that ever happens.

I imagine at this point, S-E is waiting for 3.0 to drop and seeing how the new abilities shape up for SMN, though a dev post, frankly, on the matter stating "Please look forward to your changes in 3.0" would be nice.

Bonus points on piety is like might as well stop using smn all together. That's a huge dps drop by not putting all points into intelligence. I hope the least ct3 gear has ALOT of piety included.

So I gave in and raided with my SMN just to see what all the fuss was all about. MP management was kinda a small issue during my time (mainly because I main a healer and am pretty comfortable with managing my MP). I'm not claiming that I did an amazing job; just decent is all. A good friend was nice enough to tag along and check my dps (Apparently I was doing around 390-ish on average). The main issue I usually see is that some summoners forego the use of Ruin in favour of Ruin II, and Energy Drain in favour of Fester. Some even opt to use Miasma II. This speeds up the amount of MP drained and how long it will last before exhausting your supply completely.

I do think some of the problem with it is how the Aetherflow stacks are used as a mechanic for the class in general. Scholars and Summoners play completely different roles in a party, and the main skill that ties them together is Energy Drain. While useful on a Scholar to be able to keep their MP up, Summoners have to sacrifice a Fester to regain their lost MP which is a big loss in damage due to the potency difference. This makes Energy Drain less desirable and most often unused. However, Energy Drain is a very important tool in the Summoner's kit and should be used to manage your MP if you start to dip too low.

Considering all the Arcanist's skills and how some of them rely on 'chance' for the buff to be active (Eye for an Eye, and Spell Speed buff from pets come to mind), I think the most appropriate method to 'fixing' the MP management issue is to give Fester a passive trait related to Energy Drain. Note that I do think Summoners are in a sweet spot right now and wouldn't need a lot of adjustments. They can do pretty fine on their own and can hold up against other jobs just fine.

Anyway, this passive would be somewhere along the lines of, 'Grants a 15% chance that upon casting Fester, your next Energy Drain will not consume a stack of Aetherflow'. The chance would be low enough that it's quite rare to see and at the same time, doesn't cause a huge fluctuation in Summoners overall damage nor would it affect the Scholar in any way (which is a big problem when trying to balance Summoners around it). This would allow summoners to do slightly more damage in the long run and should be able to sustain their MP should it proc enough. Though, I do think that this would hardly be necessary if you manage your MP well enough. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alberel

So with all your stats focused on MP regen

---

It's not "all your stats". It's just 37 points of piety that could be 37 points of crit and that would boost your crit roughly by a 2.5%...which is not even a 1% increase in your DPS. And the food...what are you currently using anyway? Black Truffle Rissotto? You do realize food does not affect your pet do you...so the crit and det provided by that food are even more insignificant than they are already under normal circumstances. So saying "all your stats focused on MP regen" is a bit of an overexaggeration. You are probably exchanging a total of an 1 or at worst 2% DPS for complete permasustained damage and why not say it, more mobile and more reliable too (Ruin II).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mature

Bonus points on piety is like might as well stop using smn all together. That's a huge dps drop by not putting all points into intelligence. I hope the least ct3 gear has ALOT of piety included.

---

You did not understand anything. Of course your attribute points go to INT. My point was that...whoever that doesn't believe that 50ish piety gives you permasustained damage, he or she can try it by reallocating their 30 points from INT to Piety temporarily, buying an HQ pineapple juice and going to a dummy. This will have almost the same effect as if you'd put Piety on your relic weapon.

I'm a new player and I love Arcanist, was planning to stick with summoner but not so sure now if such words are used for thosewho play this class, I think I'll just avoid the hassle of being called names.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamFyi

So I gave in and raided with my SMN just to see what all the fuss was all about. MP management was kinda a small issue during my time (mainly because I main a healer and am pretty comfortable with managing my MP). I'm not claiming that I did an amazing job; just decent is all. A good friend was nice enough to tag along and check my dps (Apparently I was doing around 390-ish on average). The main issue I usually see is that some summoners forego the use of Ruin in favour of Ruin II, and Energy Drain in favour of Fester. Some even opt to use Miasma II. This speeds up the amount of MP drained and how long it will last before exhausting your supply completely.

---

If you are not running out of MP on a SMN, you are most definitely not optimizing your damage. This is completely going off of what you said as comfortable.
If you are THAT comfortable with your MP in FCOB then you are getting beaten by any smart DPS player even BRDs who sing songs. Yes BRDs that sing still can parse above 400 in FCOB.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

You did not understand anything. Of course your attribute points go to INT. My point was that...whoever that doesn't believe that 50ish piety gives you permasustained damage, he or she can try it by reallocating their 30 points from INT to Piety temporarily, buying an HQ pineapple juice and going to a dummy. This will have almost the same effect as if you'd put Piety on your relic weapon.

---

I'd love to see what you parse with this Piety fix of yours, because I'm fairly sure you're getting stomped out by SMNs who actually use Energy Drain sometimes to stay afloat throughout all fights.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Havenchild

If you are not running out of MP on a SMN, you are most definitely not optimizing your damage.

---

At most, my MP was hovering over around 40% during the fight - fluctuating between 10% and 40% of my max. My use of 'comfortable' was a little vague, so I have to apologize for that. Nonetheless, I wasn't aiming to be the top, but I tried to at least throw out something decent. The sample size wasn't too great either with only five checks (440-ish, 380-ish, 420-ish, 340-ish, and 400-ish from what I can recall). As seen in the quote below;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamFyi

I'm not claiming that I did an amazing job; just decent is all. A good friend was nice enough to tag along and check my dps (Apparently I was doing around 390-ish on average).

---

I'm not very well versed as a Summoner nor is it geared to the bone because I main a healer (My casters are still at i105 with a few i90 accessories). I did it to see how much I can push my damage while watching my MP and making sure I don't run out. I've acknowledged in my post that I believe that there is an MP issue which stems from the mechanics of the class and how it interacts with the jobs it's linked to which is explained in my previous post.

However, I'm sure a Summoner who runs out of MP is almost near useless until they can regain said MP from an Aetherflow or an Energy Drain. That's how I felt whenever I ran out of MP. Truth be told, it wasn't a good feeling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

And yet these replies further state the ignorance of the people playing this game. An i125 weapon can have up to 37 piety. Pineapple juice gives 17 piety.

54 piety are NOT 200 mp. Each point of piety roughly equals 7.2 MP, which means that 54 points of piety give you roughly 400 mp, not 200. Your mana ticks happen every 3 seconds and they have a 2% regen of your total mana (under combat). That means that 400 mp net you:

Do yourselves a favour. Buy a keeper's hymn (not the 37 piety from relic but will work too). Change your points from int to piety. Buy a pineapple juice. Go to a dummy. Start DPSing. When you guys get to your retirement pension and still don't have mana issues, we can continue having this conversation.

---

SMN is a ranged magic DPS, not a healer. They will not use piety, it's stupid. Please stop passing the salt to everyone else, sad attempt...

Even if SMNs put piety on their jobs, drink juices for more MP, you killing your DPS in the process making it worse than making it better. It's why SMN focus more into crit hit, det, & INT cause it effects your DoT potency for 1, fester for 2 especially when it crits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Osmond

SMN is a ranged magic DPS, not a healer. They will not use piety, it's stupid. Please stop passing the salt to everyone else, sad attempt...

---

I do think that SMN can make some use of Triple Cream Coffee in longer fights, but the user Gallus is insane if they think switching from INT to PIE is a good idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lavieh

I do think that SMN can make some use of Triple Cream Coffee in longer fights, but the user Gallus is insane if they think switching from INT to PIE is a good idea.

---

That's possible, atm though it is costly to get if the player have the gil for HQ or themselves or friends can craft it. Atm its over 20k in balmung for 1 HQ TCC, 3k for NQ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lavieh

I do think that SMN can make some use of Triple Cream Coffee in longer fights, but the user Gallus is insane if they think switching from INT to PIE is a good idea.

---

I didn't say that...jesus, do you even read...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Havenchild

I'd love to see what you parse with this Piety fix of yours, because I'm fairly sure you're getting stomped out by SMNs who actually use Energy Drain sometimes to stay afloat throughout all fights.

---

I parse around 350 DPS in a dummy with my i122 SCH with 377 Crit, 315 Det and 417 Piety, so go figure how important secondary stats are. Add in the 100-120 DPS from garuda and the slightly superior damage from the SMN itself because of contagion + fester + raging strikes and I'd probably be around a sustained 470-490. So yeah...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

Do yourselves a favour. Buy a keeper's hymn (not the 37 piety from relic but will work too). Change your points from int to piety. Buy a pineapple juice. Go to a dummy. Start DPSing. When you guys get to your retirement pension and still don't have mana issues, we can continue having this conversation.

---

That's still a workaround that doesn't actually solve the problem. Having more mana may help you stay in the fight longer but you've sacrificed some of your damage output potential to do it. Whether you keep your relic with crit/det and run out of mana, or get a relic with pie/det or pie/crit and don't run out of mana, the end result is still that summoner loses damage in one way or another and thus is not competitive enough with other DPS jobs for FCoB.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

I parse around 350 DPS in a dummy with my i122 SCH with 377 Crit, 315 Det and 417 Piety, so go figure how important secondary stats are. Add in the 100-120 DPS from garuda and the slightly superior damage from the SMN itself because of contagion + fester + raging strikes and I'd probably be around a sustained 470-490. So yeah...

---

What's the duration? 5 min? 10min?

You can tell ppl that smn can make over 400DPS, but none never point out how long before your MP runs out or make it to a certain time limit before that player+pet stop attacking. Having more peity at the sacrifice of the loss of det and crit is a loss of DPS on a SMN period. There is no other way around it. No smn will take that chance when they are competing other DPS to stay on par w/ theirs to make the fight easier and faster kills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Osmond

What's the duration? 5 min? 10min?

---

Last time I did 5 min, but I could've done 40 min if I wanted, I generate 3 more times more mana than what I spend DPSing with my SCH. With SMN this only applies with the extra piety I've mentioned and perhaps the occasional Energy Drain. What I'm trying to make people see (and failing to do so) is that having 1% less DPS output has far less weigh than being able to bring permasustained damage without ever worrying about your mana.

Do not use piety on your stats, do not use piety on your gear, do not use piety on your weapon, do not use piety in your food. There is no reason to, learn to manage your MP.

Such a huge waste of DPS.

Quote:

---

Hold on a second, basically you are actually agreeing on people complains BUT it is something you actually enjoy and so, everyone else have to shut their voices?
No offence but not everyone are masochists and while I respect your tastes when it come to the "pleasure" point of view, it is not the case for everyone you know.

---

Every single job has fights they don't like. You don't see Monks begging for a buff because they lose their Greased Lightning on some fights. However, even though those fights are a little rough for us, we can still pull really good DPS. It's just slightly unfavorable.

Same thing with Monks on fights that they don't like. They learn to manage. They don't complain and beg for buffs.

Quote:

---

So, there again, using energy drain over fester is a "deserved punishment" for you even though the dps loss is kind of unfair when you are directly in competition for tight dps check fights :/
Where you see being greedy with mana, I just see DPS optimization to be honest.

---

You have the power to dictate how much mana you burn. You burn more mana, you do more DPS. You be mana efficient, and you perform a good amount of sustained DPS. Regardless of whether or not you energy drain, our DPS is good. We are not "weaker" than other DPS classes. This is how our rotation works. Why is this a bad thing? We have fantastic control over how much DPS we do, how much mana we burn, etc. We can burst when we need it and weave Banes and other AoEs into our rotation optimally.

SMN is designed very well. Its concept (a DoT class) may not be what I was hoping for (I'd rather be focused on pets) but they did a very good job on what exists right now.

Quote:

---

having a BLM for adds phase will make your life as smn more "easier"

---

If you want to think about it that way, having a BLM hurts our DPS because our DoTs cleaved onto everything can't tick their full duration, thus reducing our time to get the OP AoE DPS. But, that's not a very good way to think about it.

Quote:

---

while your BRD loses 20% of it because they have to sing ballad for you.

---

Do not make Bards ballad for you. Ever.

Come on guys. Do not sit here and complain about SMN just hoping for SE to buff you. We don't need a buff. If people don't know how to manage their MP, or on those certain fights where MP sucks (T8, T11) it can be considered bad quality of life, but that's pretty much it. Take the effort to learn how to play better instead of just giving up and saying "SMN is bad, not my fault" and playing another job.

No one isn't saying SMN is bad, but saying that making the DPS optimal is costing MP as a whole due to slow recovery. BLM is great for adds especially if they can triple or quad flare it if they can at the same time they can recover their MP quickly after the fact. SMNs can't do that so left at a disadvantage if on the AoE department. You telling ppl not to complain. Then please explain how they were able to buff DRGs, MNKs, and WARs. Was it due to complaints? What you saying doesn't make sense Crevox. By that mind of logic then they shouldn't buff DRG to make their potency buffed, jumps shorter, MNKs greased lightning buffed, keep them where they are before the buffs is that what you saying? There is a reason why they are looking at fan feedback.....

Quote:

---

SMNs can't do that so left at a disadvantage if on the AoE department.

---

How are we at a disadvantage? DoT cleave and your DPS skyrockets. You can AoE DPS with minimal MP cost, if any, thanks to Bane. I actually out DPS my BLM on T13 on the adds part of the fight, even though he's flaring. In every fight, you know when the adds are going to show up, so you can be totally ready with your Aetherflow, Garuda cooldowns, and other things when they show up. Flow your rotation, cooldowns, and MP management to be optimal when you need it.

We have tools. Make use of them, and we do very well.

Quote:

---

No one isn't saying SMN is bad, but saying that making the DPS optimal is costing MP as a whole due to slow recovery.

---

Sure, we could push super tons of DPS, but only for a short time and we burn our MP. So, you don't do that. You maintain a steady, fair MP rotation that does good DPS, and then adjust as needed. For the duration of the fight, and the end, our DPS is good and competitive with other jobs. Just because you CAN push more DPS than everyone doesn't mean you should, you'll burn out all your MP. Learn to manage it.

Every fight has different timings when you want to burn more MP, less MP, shorter fights, longer fights... etc. You make the most out of your MP pool.

Quote:

---

Then please explain how they were able to buff DRGs, MNKs, and WARs. Was it due to complaints? What you saying doesn't make sense Crevox. There is a reason why they are looking at fan feedback.....

---

Because those jobs actually needed buffs. WARs were a mess when they released. DRGs survivability sucked and they needed a small DPS boost. I don't remember what the case was with MNKs.

SMN is fine. You say we have MP problems, but we don't. You manage your MP and it's fine. For some reason you think we do bad DPS if we manage our MP well and do a nice sustained rotation, but we don't. Our DPS is good. There's no reason to buff us because our DPS will get even higher, higher than it should be. Like I said, we do have some MP issues on certain fights (T8, T11, *maybe* the end of T13) but if you manage your MP our DPS is still good. Every job has fights they suffer on, but again, they don't go on the forum complaining for buffs because of a few different fights they do slightly less DPS on. Like I said, I still push top DPS on T10-T12, only losing on T13 to a Monk. Why do you want to buff Summoner?

The ONLY reason we can give why our DPS is not even better than it is right now is because our itemization sucked this patch. That's just poor itemization, and even then, like I said, our DPS is fine right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crevox

How are we at a disadvantage? DoT cleave and your DPS skyrockets. You can AoE DPS with minimal MP cost, if any, thanks to Bane. I actually out DPS my BLM on T13 on the adds part of the fight, even though he's flaring.

---

I haven't done T13 so you beat me on that one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crevox

Sure, we could push super tons of DPS, but only for a short time and we burn our MP. So, you don't do that. You maintain a steady, fair MP rotation that does good DPS, and then adjust as needed. For the duration of the fight, and the end, our DPS is good and competitive with other jobs. Just because you CAN push more DPS than everyone doesn't mean you should, you'll burn out all your MP. Learn to manage it.

---

It would make sense if the player's gear can make it to where they don't have to push their MP. It's why I can't assume to that conclusion if they are comparing your character's gear to theirs via lodestone, how they know the fight and mechanics.

Quote:

---

It would make sense if the player's gear can make it to where they don't have to push their MP.

---

It would be super cool if our relic did something to help our MP, but doesn't.

Our rotation is our rotation. It would be like if gear for Monk had increased TP regen or had Store TP. But, they don't have something like that. They have skill speed, which does the opposite technically, and we have spell speed, which is the same. Maybe in 3.0 we'll get interesting gear and stuff that'll tweak how we play, but for now, we're stuck with what we've got.

Either way, currently, it is functional as is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crevox

It would be super cool if our relic did something to help our MP, but doesn't.

Our rotation is our rotation. It would be like if gear for Monk had increased TP regen or had Store TP. But, they don't have something like that. They have skill speed, which does the opposite technically, and we have spell speed, which is the same. Maybe in 3.0 we'll get interesting gear and stuff that'll tweak how we play, but for now, we're stuck with what we've got.

Either way, currently, it is functional as is.

---

True, I can't complain on that statement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crevox

How are we at a disadvantage? DoT cleave and your DPS skyrockets. You can AoE DPS with minimal MP cost, if any, thanks to Bane. I actually out DPS my BLM on T13 on the adds part of the fight, even though he's flaring. In every fight, you know when the adds are going to show up, so you can be totally ready with your Aetherflow, Garuda cooldowns, and other things when they show up. Flow your rotation, cooldowns, and MP management to be optimal when youneed it.

We have tools. Make use of them, and we do very well.

SMN is fine. You say we have MP problems, but we don't. You manage your MP and it's fine. For some reason you think we do bad DPS if we manage our MP well and do a nice sustained rotation, but we don't. Our DPS is good. There's no reason to buff us because our DPS will get even higher, higher than it should be. Like I said, we do have some MP issues on certain fights (T8, T11, *maybe* the end of T13) but if you manage your MP our DPS is still good. Every job has fights they suffer on, but again, they don't go on the forum complaining for buffs because of a few different fights they do slightly less DPS on. Like I said, I still push top DPS on T10-T12, only losing on T13 to a Monk. Why do you want to buff Summoner?

The ONLY reason we can give why our DPS is not even better than it is right now is because our itemization sucked this patch. That's just poor itemization, and even then, like I said, our DPS is fine right now.

---

Sorry, but your group must be pretty bad for you to think these things. If you, a SMN, are pushing top DPS in every fight, your other DPS are flat out bad. SMN is easily the weakest DPS in the game right now, even behind BRD, to address the OP.

Quote:

---

Sorry, but your group must be pretty bad for you to think these things. If you, a SMN, are pushing top DPS in every fight, your other DPS are flat out bad. SMN is easily the weakest DPS in the game right now, even behind BRD, to address the OP.

---

Sorry, but your SMN must be pretty bad for you to think these things. If you, a SMN, are pushing bottom DPS in every fight, your flat out bad. SMN is easily not the weakest DPS in the game right now, even ahead of BRD, to address the OP.

Man, it feels icky being mean saying those things, but it was a fun point to make.

SMN is not the worst DPS. Pulling 463 DPS on T13 is not "bad." I never said my group was good or bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crevox

Sorry, but your SMN must be pretty bad for you to think these things. If you, a SMN, are pushing bottom DPS in every fight, your flat out bad. SMN is easily not the weakest DPS in the game right now, even ahead of BRD, to address the OP.

---

If you're pushing 550-600 dps in any fight, you're a liar.

And I know people of every other class who pull more than 463 in 13.

My SMN is not pretty bad. I have all of DnT's SMNs (before this patch since they all swapped classes because SMN is bad), to compare to, and we all did about the same DPS. I did more than the other SMNs before they switched this patch. I cleared all of coil except 13 on the first week.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zholi

If you're pushing 550-600 dps in any fight, you're a liar.

---

Who said I was doing 550-600? The highest recorded BLM DPS right now on T13 is 515.2, and that is under extreme optimal scenarios (NIN, BRD, 126 ilvl, dreadwyrm weapon).

I currently do around 462-463, and I think that's pretty good considering my gear, how bad you think Summoner is, the fact I don't have a Ninja, my non-dreadwyrm weapon, etc. Certainly doesn't seem bad. Definitely not unplayable as many users in this thread are suggesting.

Why are you whining about Summoner if you have Summoners that do good DPS in T13? You're confusing, not going to bother taking this any further with you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crevox

Who said I was doing 550-600? The highest recorded BLM DPS right now on T13 is 515.2, and that is under extreme optimal scenarios (NIN, BRD, 126 ilvl, dreadwyrm weapon).

I currently do around 462-463, and I think that's pretty good considering my gear, how bad you think Summoner is, the fact I don't have a Ninja, my non-dreadwyrm weapon, etc. Certainly doesn't seem bad. Definitely not unplayable as many users in this thread are suggesting.

Why are you whining about Summoner if you have Summoners that do good DPS in T13? You're confusing, not going to bother taking this any further with you.

---

You said you were top DPS in 10-12, which would put you at 550-600. T13 is the fight SMN has the least/no trouble with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zholi

SMN is easily the weakest DPS in the game right now, even behind BRD, to address the OP.

---

That is such a blatant lie.

Summoners have a hard time contributing to the fight early on. Unless you use the right rotation your kinda of just there (the good ones can make a difference tho ive been witness to this). Srs i used to complain about mana issues also. Then a better smn slapped me in the face and said your doing it wrong kid. (so i got better) I would be awesome in extreme primals. Then one day i df into a group of players for Titan ex, We skipped phases with out any echo buff. It was mind madding i didn't have time to put my dots on, i must have gone through 3 dot rotation and that was only when i got 2 off and put the last one on after he jumped and came back down. I literally switched to just direct spells until the final phase which didn't last long either. I felt pathetic i new i had to have been the worst dps there. The only thing i contributed to that fight was that i never died to the mechanics.

That was really the only time i have ever been truly envious of the direct dps classes.

Quote:

---

Summoners have a hard time contributing to the fight early on.

---

Summoners are pretty close to BRD on how much DPS you burst out at the start. I usually peak at like 700-800 on a single target shortly after the fight starts, and it slowly dwindles down to my steady DPS from there. This is thanks to opening with Foe (possibly BV), a Rouse+Spurred Enkindle, heavy Fester burning thanks to double Aetherflow, etc.

Titan Extreme can require some burst damage for the rocks, so saving some Aetherflow to energy drain them (if necessary) and properly directing your pet helps. You can offset the DPS loss by being more greedy with your rotation to push more DPS thanks to the extra MP you'll be getting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elazu

That is such a blatant lie.

---

Just using DnT's internal parse data.

And to the other posts, SMN is very strong early in a fight but drops off the longer it goes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crevox

Summoners are pretty close to BRD on how much DPS you burst out at the start. I usually peak at like 700-800 on a single target shortly after the fight starts, and it slowly dwindles down to my steady DPS from there. This is thanks to opening with Foe (possibly BV), a Rouse+Spurred Enkindle, heavy Fester burning thanks to double Aetherflow, etc.

---

It feels like you literally read the first sentence of my post. And then felt the need to determine i needed advice as to how to start the burst rotation which i stated in the sentence exactly after the first sentence that you stopped reading. I want you to know i made sure i understood everything you had said i even went through your post 4 times. Your welcome :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Suggestion

It feels like you literally read the first sentence of my post. And then felt the need to determine i needed advice as to how to start the burst rotation which i stated in the sentence exactly after the first sentence that you stopped reading. I want you to know i made sure i understood everything you had said i even went through your post 4 times. Your welcome :D

---

You say they're bad at it, then immediately say "oh well if you use the right rotation they're not bad." This goes for any job. My point is they're actually the best, or close to best, nowhere even close to bad.

What was the point of your post at all? "If someone doesn't know how to play, they do badly." Yeah, that's usually the case.

There's really no reason to be rude about it; I wasn't. Apparently *my bad* for not fully understanding what you're trying to say, especially when your grammar was flawed.

Quote:

---

Just using DnT's internal parse data.

---

Sounds super magical and 100% accurate in all cases.

Oh well, my point has been made in this thread. People should open their eyes and try to do better on Summoner instead of just having a slight amount of difficulty and just throwing their arms in the air and saying "whelp, I give up, SMN is broken, time to play another job, plsSEbuffjob, because it must be broken if I can't play it well." Or, not even not play it well, just assume it's bad because it has to gear slightly more accuracy and gear around a stat that's not as good for it.

Shrug. Whatever ends up happening, I hope it doesn't ruin the job. I'm just tired of trying to explain to people with actual numbers and facts and anecdotes of my experiences as a Summoner in end game how Summoner is not terrible like they seem to think it is. Regardless of that, people still just keep hoping for a buff anyways and deciding to avoid it until it gets it. I can't teach you to like or enjoy Summoner. If you like the job, play the job. The job is fine. If you're having difficulty, try to get better instead of asking for a buff we don't need. I'm always more than willing to give advice and help people learn, in game or otherwise, as I've already done for multiple Summoners on my server.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crevox

I currently do around 462-463, and I think that's pretty good considering my gear, how bad you think Summoner is, the fact I don't have a Ninja, my non-dreadwyrm weapon, etc. Certainly doesn't seem bad. Definitely not unplayable as many users in this thread are suggesting.

Why are you whining about Summoner if you have Summoners that do good DPS in T13? You're confusing, not going to bother taking this any further with you.

---

how are you top dps in t10-t12 doing 46x?

the only class you can conceivably beat at that dps are bards without disembowel

all melees will beat you by like 50-100 and the blm will beat you by like 50 or something