The Letter is up

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Originally Posted by Aistaraina

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

while(mode== activeMode && target == hostile)
{
Action(classDefaultAttack);
Wait(fiveSeconds*classWeaponSpeed);
};

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Yep. You created an infinite loop that would crash the client. Grats.

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Yeah I guess the concept of threading is not for this thread.

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Originally Posted by Jericho

Two endgame dungeons, almost forced from all the yelling and whining, even though we are not at the "end of the game". Two endgame dungeons that will be useless and abandoned as soon as the level cap is raised up to where it will remain for the game's duration.

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Yes, exactly. As any game designer knows, a successful game is only successful if you are grinding nonstop for MONTHS to get to max level just to begin PLAYING THE ACTUAL GAME. These new-fangled ideas of "content" and "fun things to do in between" are so crazy!

Can you feel the sarcasm?

If anything they should decrease level cap to R30 and still keep adding stuff because at the moment there is barely enough content in the game to warrant 30 ranks worth of playtime, let alone 50 ranks. Let alone a raise in cap!

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Originally Posted by Biggs

I agree with what you are saying here, so don't think this is an attack, but the truth is appearntly SE has game designers and even they dont know what they are doing. The language they use with the consumer base is very ambiguous. They stated earlier this year that 1.18 would contain "dungeons", as in several, not one, maybe two. They said mid-june at the earliest and then wait until mid-june after weeks of silence to finally say it will be delayed.

They took NONE of the years and years of lessons they learned from running FFXI (which was a great mmo) and applied them to this game despite the fact that many of the same people work on this team. Most of the initail gameplay elements upon release (aside form the graphics and motion capture) look to have been created on a napkin over lunch. All outward appearences seem to indicate that this is the first time SE has ever made an MMO.

I have played and still play this game. I believe it to have a ton of potential. But even fitting the bill as a FF "fanboy", I find their poor use of PR, ambiguous language, and inability to set and meet simple deadlines tiresome. And for those that argue we all get to play this game for free, let me just make one thing clear: The few thousand of us or so that continue to play this game and respond to them about it are saving them a ridiculous amount of money on game testers and Q @ A people. I love this franchise, but being used and then jerked around with no clear end in site to when we will finally recieve the gameplay and experience we have been promised can make even its most loyal fans turn against them. And that really is my greatest fear. Those of us that are still playing and defending them are slowly running out of the energy to keep doing so without recieving anything in return on SE's end. This patch (especially now that its been delayed) has some pretty big shoes to fill, and frankly, from what I have seen out of SE's reworking of this game so far, am afraid they are setting themselves up to fall flat on their faces. I can only hope that I am pleasantly suprised come the end of July when it finally drops, but after months of being in their corner, I am begining to lose faith.

I want to believe you SE, I really really do, but much like a battered wife, I can only take false promises for so long before I pack my shit and don't come back.

To those of you that say good riddance to those that do quit, you are only cheering on this games demise. I feel for every person that has played this and been so dissapointed that they leave. Each person we lose should be fealt as a loss by the community. Only complete douchebags cheer on the fact that their team is losing.

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This post sings to me.

It's exactly how I feel and it's very well written.

I think I may copy it and save it, or repost it to my friends who quit already and don't give a rat's ass to check the forums anymore. Thanks for strumming my pain with your fingers, Biggs, and sweet forum name.

hmm looking again at the Auto Attack video, I hope this won't be mandatory. I'm hoping that you can turn it On - if you want to use Auto Attack, and turn it off if you don't. I would like to turn it off.

There holding stuff back I bet. You dont think its just those 2 weapon skills do you...? They will release more info as it gets closer to release.

Expect all the classes get there own WS.

What do you think there motion tracking programmers have been doing what for the longest time anyway before lanuch?
I bet theres a ton of FFXIV related stuff thats been created but needs programing on.
I bet they have tons of enemys and landscapes there holding back.

They didnt want to fix a huge mess with its currect gameplay problems so they didnt release anything new till they needed to fix.

So once they fix all there problems expect a big expation pack of alot of stuff after a few months of extra updates.

I hope they add something to the materia system then just a useless menu screen at its 1.18 patch.

Like I mentioned to someone else about the Materia system I hope they can have combin effects like in FF7.

Equip Ability/Spell into one slot and Materias in another slots.

Fire+ All Materia= Fire Aoe (double slot)
Fire+ Elemental Plus= Stronger Fire (double slot)
Sneak Attack+ Dex Plus+10%= Stronger Sneak Attack (Double Slot)
Sneak Attack+Dex Plus+10%+Atk Behind= Stronger Sneak Attack (Tripple Slot)

Crafting Materia system shoulnt be just 1 craft or its own but should be shared with all crafts.
Gathering classes should be the main focus for gathering items for Materia.
There should be a huge crystal cost for making Materia like... 500 shards, 200 crystals, 100 clusters depending on the materia.

Materias should be tradble till they get EXP or AP on them and become none tradble.

The instanced dungeons added ARE NOT for end game. There will be one level 30 dungeon for light parties, and one level 50 dungeon for full parties.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Yeah I guess the concept of threading is not for this thread.

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Witty.

I skipped the technicalities and opted for a silly response, but apparently you want to hear them. It would still lock up the simulation thread. Depending on how they decided to write the game, the simulation thread typically spawns numerous threads to handle IO, physics, AI etc simultaneously. The simulation thread then waits for all threads to complete before restarting its loop. If whatever thread combat is running on never completes due to said retarded loop conditions, you're hooped.

Please don't turn this into a programing debate.

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Originally Posted by Aistaraina

Witty.

I skipped the technicalities and opted for a silly response, but apparently you want to hear them. It would still lock up the simulation thread. Depending on how they decided to write the game, the simulation thread typically spawns numerous threads to handle IO, physics, AI etc simultaneously. The simulation thread then waits for all threads to complete before restarting its loop. If whatever thread combat is running on never completes due to said retarded loop conditions, you're hooped.

Please don't turn this into a programing debate.

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Your response is silly too. All the defenders of the SE order seem to be missing one thing. Yes, this isn't some silly homemade app, but this isn't some silly amateur company either. SE is a global developer and publisher with hundreds (probably thousands) of staff on their payroll. No one, especially not me, is saying that it is simple to recode games or any other complex programs for that matter. What we are saying is that for a company of this size to have so much trouble recoding anything in this game, shows a very big weakness in them. Any programmer worth his salt plans ahead for changes. And any programmer worth his salt doesn't have his code in a giant mess with absolutely no documentation or indicators for different parts of code in each module. You all act as though this is just one giant file of code that they need to eyeball to find things. And you all act like when they are debugging code, the tools give them absolutely no indication of what is causing the problems. In that case, maybe the developers at SE really are working from home, with absolutely no professional tools.

Once again, I point to the case of linkshell member count limitations. Something they have said they "cannot change" due to the way it is coded. Are you people just going to sit there and pipe the same drivel about how complicated programming is? My point from pages back is 100% correct - the code was a complete mess from Day 1, end of story.

loving the new battle system!

Perhaps that's a part of that whole communication problem they've been having.
They've never really had to redesign a game before so perhaps they never thought it necessary to keep track of certain elements or structures, which would be a terribly unprofessional habit.

Whatever the reason, no one here knows how the game is structured, what sort of planning goes into redesigning it, or how they approach problems with the old structure. Anything we say for or against it can only be speculation.

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Originally Posted by Aistaraina

Witty.

I skipped the technicalities and opted for a silly response, but apparently you want to hear them. It would still lock up the simulation thread. Depending on how they decided to write the game, the simulation thread typically spawns numerous threads to handle IO, physics, AI etc simultaneously. The simulation thread then waits for all threads to complete before restarting its loop. If whatever thread combat is running on never completes due to said retarded loop conditions, you're hooped.

Please don't turn this into a programing debate.

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You're the one that's taking this seriously. I wrote a simple code that everyone could understand. Ofcourse the actual code would be a bit more complicated than that, but it wouldn't be millions and millions lines of code, like some people are trying to make you believe.

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Originally Posted by charliesheen

*irrelevant*

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Not sure why you bothered to write that wall. I have never disagreed with you that the code base is a mess. In fact, I agree with you that is probably is very poorly written.

The original quote was some code where he implied fixing it was easy, I simply made a stupid remark that despite how "easy" people seem to think it is, it's not, on that fact his loop failed. He tried to prove me wrong, I defended myself.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

You're the one that's taking this seriously.

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I'm not taking anything seriously. You're the one that responded saying I am wrong when i'm not lol

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

You're the one that's taking this seriously. I wrote a simple code that everyone could understand. Ofcourse the actual code would be a bit more complicated than that, but it wouldn't be millions and millions lines of code, like some people are trying to make you believe.

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That is what they choose to believe. Anything to make an excuse for SE. I've noticed the trend on this forum, either you are able to make valid criticisms about SE, including their poor skills at programming (which coincidentally was true in FFXI too, I suppose they will tell us next that it was masterful programming), or you are in the Pro-SE camp. These people accuse anyone who complains of being unreasonable. That SE are doing the best job they can, and we have no right to complain, we are wrong.

So it is indeed millions of lines of undocumented code for every part of the game. They do indeed need to eyeball it all to find problems. If Carlsberg made programmers... they would be SE programmers right?

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Originally Posted by Venat

There holding stuff back I bet. You dont think its just those 2 weapon skills do you...? They will release more info as it gets closer to release.

Expect all the classes get there own WS.

What do you think there motion tracking programmers have been doing what for the longest time anyway before lanuch?
I bet theres a ton of FFXIV related stuff thats been created but needs programing on.
I bet they have tons of enemys and landscapes there holding back.

They didnt want to fix a huge mess with its currect gameplay problems so they didnt release anything new till they needed to fix.

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I get such a kick out of these people that think there is some massive content patch that SE is holding back.

Blow those birthday candles out and make a wish upon a star while crossing your fingers hugging a bible and knocking on wood.

Keep reaching for that rainbow.

What we are getting is what they got.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Perhaps that's a part of that whole communication problem they've been having.
They've never really had to redesign a game before so perhaps they never thought it necessary to keep track of certain elements or structures, which would be a terribly unprofessional habit.

Whatever the reason, no one here knows how the game is structured, what sort of planning goes into redesigning it, or how they approach problems with the old structure. Anything we say for or against it can only be speculation.

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True, anything we do say is extreme ammount of speculation. While I would go as far to say it does seem to be taking longer than I would expect. But hell we don't know the formulas, codes, what is all tied to the battle system. I mean we are not just looking at making weapons wing automatically. They have to balance-rebalance skills that are just broken without stamina use "Fient" for example, or most reactionary skills will probably have a much longer cooldown than prior to the update, TP generation may be nerfed or weaponskills having longer recasts than usual. Then we factor in the "Speed" of the swings and the "DPS" and how that effects the monsters behaviour.

Some mobs have skills that trigger from basic attacks that before could be easilly avoided due to needing to manually attack. Funguars for example could have there "Sporeshroom" abillity avoided if you stopped attacking while it was bloated up. Wether they are working on those as well is unknown.

They are working on far more than just the battle system as well. We currently have.

-Battle tweaks
-Redefining how stats work
-Job system
-Materia system
-Instanced dungeons
-Toying around with abolishing surpluss
-...

The list could probably go on for miles on what they are working on at the moment. While it's obvious a majority of the team would probably be on the battle stuff I would imagine they still have people working on other projects and probably some not even announced to us in general.

Personally while it's anoying to wait, I have no issue in waiting for the project to be fleshed and polished before we get to play with it.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Personally while it's anoying to wait, I have no issue in waiting for the project to be fleshed and polished before we get to play with it.

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Agreed! My posts are about the project in general, not the addition of auto-attack. As I've pointed out a few times now, they are even incapable of removing the member cap on linkshells at this stage. Clearly there are major issues.

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Originally Posted by charliesheen

That is what they choose to believe. Anything to make an excuse for SE. I've noticed the trend on this forum, either you are able to make valid criticisms about SE, including their poor skills at programming (which coincidentally was true in FFXI too, I suppose they will tell us next that it was masterful programming), or you are in the Pro-SE camp. These people accuse anyone who complains of being unreasonable. That SE are doing the best job they can, and we have no right to complain, we are wrong.

So it is indeed millions of lines of undocumented code for every part of the game. They do indeed need to eyeball it all to find problems. If Carlsberg made programmers... they would be SE programmers right?

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This shouldn't be an "us vs they" debate. Stop taking sides and start thinking objectively.

We know nothing about how this game is programed or what type of work and research goes into each feature and update. Could the lack of speed stem from poor programming? Maybe. But it's just as possible that they spend too much time fretting over where exactly the player should be able to walk over a wall as a matter of convenience vs aesthetic.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

I agree with what you are saying here, so don't think this is an attack, but the truth is appearntly SE has game designers and even they dont know what they are doing. The language they use with the consumer base is very ambiguous. They stated earlier this year that 1.18 would contain "dungeons", as in several, not one, maybe two. They said mid-june at the earliest and then wait until mid-june after weeks of silence to finally say it will be delayed.

They took NONE of the years and years of lessons they learned from running FFXI (which was a great mmo) and applied them to this game despite the fact that many of the same people work on this team. Most of the initail gameplay elements upon release (aside form the graphics and motion capture) look to have been created on a napkin over lunch. All outward appearences seem to indicate that this is the first time SE has ever made an MMO.

I have played and still play this game. I believe it to have a ton of potential. But even fitting the bill as a FF "fanboy", I find their poor use of PR, ambiguous language, and inability to set and meet simple deadlines tiresome. And for those that argue we all get to play this game for free, let me just make one thing clear: The few thousand of us or so that continue to play this game and respond to them about it are saving them a ridiculous amount of money on game testers and Q @ A people. I love this franchise, but being used and then jerked around with no clear end in site to when we will finally recieve the gameplay and experience we have been promised can make even its most loyal fans turn against them. And that really is my greatest fear. Those of us that are still playing and defending them are slowly running out of the energy to keep doing so without recieving anything in return on SE's end. This patch (especially now that its been delayed) has some pretty big shoes to fill, and frankly, from what I have seen out of SE's reworking of this game so far, am afraid they are setting themselves up to fall flat on their faces. I can only hope that I am pleasantly suprised come the end of July when it finally drops, but after months of being in their corner, I am begining to lose faith.

I want to believe you SE, I really really do, but much like a battered wife, I can only take false promises for so long before I pack my shit and don't come back.

To those of you that say good riddance to those that do quit, you are only cheering on this games demise. I feel for every person that has played this and been so dissapointed that they leave. Each person we lose should be fealt as a loss by the community. Only complete douchebags cheer on the fact that their team is losing.

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Well said, Biggs.

I've held onto this game with a death grip. Since closed beta, all the while watching my friends and linkshell members disappear, despite the fact it gets harder and harder to motivate myself to log in. I keep my LS website updated, despite the fact my forums have grown silent. I read the official forums every day. I read posts from people who are frustrated, angry, hopeful, disappointed, and vigilant. I've been watching myself grow tired and irritable IRL. I'm emotionally exhausted.

And yet, I remain. I've gladly and easily walked away from lesser developers who have made critical mistakes, like Mythic and NCSoft. But I can't give up on SE.

Somehow I keep telling myself that SE needs us right now.

I don't cheer, I don't mourn. At this point I just sigh and shake my head. Because none of it is any longer a shock to me.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

This shouldn't be an "us vs they" debate. Stop taking sides and start thinking objectively.

We know nothing about how this game is programed or what type of work and research goes into each feature and update. Could the lack of speed stem from poor programming? Maybe. But it's just as possible that they spend too much time fretting over where exactly the player should be able to walk over a wall as a matter of convenience vs aesthetic.

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I don’t live in the middle anymore. That’s where you get embarrassed in front of the prom queen. Check my previous posts where I've emphasised the point that they can't even remove the cap on linkshell member counts due to programming. There can only be so many things that the linkshell member count is connected to, yet they are incapable of changing that small tiny part of the game. It has been brought up with them and they have actually said they are unable to change it.

So while a lot of what we argue about is up for debate, you can't deny the simple fact that something is very wrong with the situation when they can't change something so simple. As for the "us vs they" debate, I should have rephrased. I am me, the warlock, and everyone else can have their own fights. I am only here to deliver finely honed violent torpedoes of truth.

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Originally Posted by charliesheen

I don’t live in the middle anymore. That’s where you get embarrassed in front of the prom queen. Check my previous posts where I've emphasized the point that they can't even remove the cap on linkshell member counts due to programming. There can only be so many things that the linkshell member count is connected to, yet they are incapable of changing that small tiny part of the game. It has been brought up with them and they have actually said they are unable to change it.

So while a lot of what we argue about is up for debate, you can't deny the simple fact that something is very wrong with the situation when they can't change something so simple. As for the "us vs they" debate, I should have rephrased. I am me, the warlock, and everyone else can have their own fights. I am only here to deliver finely honed violent torpedoes of truth.

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Firstly, how exactly do you know that the small and unprioritized feature of the linkshell member cap is due to programming? (If you have a link please send it)
Second, how do you know that feature has not changed simply due to the fact that it is a non issue at the moment?
Third, how do you know the issue is not because of long and arduous planning surrounding the functionality of linkshells themselves and whether or not allowing an increase in allowed players per linkshell would require them to be purchased, and what that would mean for people already in possession of one.

There are a wide variety of problems surrounding the features of this game. We can't just raise one theory as an unfaltering answer to why these things are taking so much time; and to act as if those that would disagree with your own theory where some sort of black hooded weavers of deceit (along with the lone warlock) only serves to show how egocentric you are.
Be careful of vain thoughts and confusing fact with opinion and theory. You live in this world just as much as anyone else.

I'm just giving people what I guess they want, I just don't know if everyone can handle it. I’m on a quest to claim absolute victory on every front. I'll need to search through the letters and dev. notes to find where it was said, so I will return... with another violent torpedo of truth!

#winning

That doesn't mean that there wouldn't be a easy way around that. If it's too hard to change the linkshell system, make a new one and abolish the old one. Just brick and mortar the abillity to actually obtain linkshells and force people to use the new improved system.

Not the most "stylish" choice but it's better than just saying "well we can't change it." Considering we could technically listen to over thousands of people in one place means that it's not linked to some hard cap on how many people we can listen to at once. If the demand is strong enough once the bigger changes roll out I'm positive SE can and will find a way around the current limitations or just make a new system and block the old from being used.

The warlock has failed. I am unable to find where I read the comments about linkshells. All I could fine was various "difficult to implement" comments regarding other items of a similar nature.

In anycase, as other posters have commented that particular thing is not top of their priority list. Even if it wasn't, if the programming was sound, you wouldn't expect it to be difficult to implement and therefore not required to be top of their priorities. But I will cease with the guess-work and bid you all adieu for now on this topic.

I'm not going to read the 342 (!) replies, so this has most likely been discussed, but Yoshida needs to stop making comments like this:

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Originally Posted by Yoshi-P

I estimate that it’ll take two more weeks beyond the anticipated mid/late-June release date to deliver it to our fans.

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This can mean anything from 1,5 weeks to a month. :(

The letter is a tad underwhelming, but adding the video was very effective and has definitely helped tone down the riots I was expecting. I hope he keeps doing things like this, as it goes a very long way! It's very nice to see something completely new, visually, after all this time. Chaos Thrust is breathtaking.

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Originally Posted by Mug

I'm not going to read the 342 (!) replies, so this has most likely been discussed, but Yoshida needs to stop making comments like this:



This can mean anything from 1,5 weeks to a month. :(

The letter is a tad underwhelming, but adding the video was very effective and has definitely helped tone down the riots I was expecting. I hope he keeps doing things like this, as it goes a very long way! It's very nice to see something completely new, visually, after all this time. Chaos Thrust is breathtaking.

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Yoshi can only give us general statements like this because he isn't doing all the work himself. What do you want him to do, walk around to every person working on the game and ask for an estimated date for the patch. The work has to get done and you don't always know how long that is going to be until you get there.

All I know is that vague statements, and this game has had more than its fair share of them, is not helping the situation. Even if things are uncertain, I'm sure they know if the patch will be ready by next week or in a month.

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Originally Posted by Mug

All I know is that vague statements, and this game has had more than its fair share of them, is not helping the situation. Even if things are uncertain, I'm sure they know if the patch will be ready by next week or in a month.

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So you would rather go back to how it was during Tanaka's tenure when we get no information until 2 days before? There is a big difference between a month and a week, especially in programming and development.

actually their are many developers and producers who do just that, make a date, and hit it. most of the time. And yeah he is supposed to be able to get real dates out of people, and get stuff done. Now maybe the things here are unforseeable, but in general one would expect he could get some dates, and get work done by said dates as the rule, rather than the exception. Other directors/developers do it all the time.

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Originally Posted by Physic

actually their are many developers and producers who do just that, make a date, and hit it. most of the time. And yeah he is supposed to be able to get real dates out of people, and get stuff done. Now maybe the things here are unforseeable, but in general one would expect he could get some dates, and get work done by said dates as the rule, rather than the exception. Other directors/developers do it all the time.

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Give me an example please. Give me an example of a Director/Producer giving a specific date on when something is going to be implemented. It's not the same as saying Patch X.X is going to be released on XX XXX 2011 and then having to push it back. Yoshi told us what is being worked on and said "There is so much work to be done that the EARLIEST we can do it is AROUND THIS TIME, MAYBE." In the development and planning process, you have to finish X project before you can begin Y project. You can give an estimated time frame that it will take to complete project Y but if it takes you longer to complete project X then project Y will take longer too. Obviously Yoshi's estimate was too generous.

The following is a post i made on FFXIVCORE. Thought some of you would like to see it.

I agree with both camps that have responded here, both those defending SE and those that are pissed. Both camps also have a solid following on the official forums as there are many, many unhappy posts about this letter on the SE Forum site.

Personally I feel like I have the right to be a little pissed, and so do others. Are these changes needed? Without a doubt. Can SE move forward without making these changes first? Probably not. I understand exactly how something as large as changing the core game mechanics can not only take a great deal of time (they have to go through thousands of lines of code people, its really not a 1,2,3 process) but can also take up a great deal of effort on the dev teams part. I have no desire to get into a pissing contest over how others feel about auto-attack. They are implementing it. Accept it, and lets move on. In short, my tiny gaming brain understands the need for and length of time it takes to do all of the things they are doing here. I get it.

Now let me explain why myself and others can understand all of these things and still retain the right to be pissed off.

The few thousands of us that still play this game on a regular basis at this point (so more than once a week folks) are the most loyal of the loyal. When so many others have written this game off, we have stood by it. Many of us have defended SE and the decisions they have made over the last 6 months time and time again. We make posts telling SE our opinions of the game, we take player polls, and we trudge onward. I make no qualms about quilifying myself as a FF fanboy. Over the course of the last few months SE has been posting all of their ideas and changes for upcoming content. Not fixes, but CONTENT. They have posted time and again about how this summer will see Player Dungeons, enemy camps, npc camps, new means of travel, new gear, more nms. In short they have made quiet a few grand claims about how the game is about to improve CONTENT wise.

Let me be clear in saying that auto-attack and the job and combat system changes is NOT content. These are fixes. The purpose of them is to improve the game, but in NO way do they add anything to the current gamestate for the thousands of us that have continued playing a game that SE is still running as a released title. Is it free? For sure. But for all of those that use this as a defense to let SE do whatever they want (myself included, I have made the "its free" defense on their behalf many times) let me just say this. The sheer amount of money Se is saving by having thousands of us test this game for them and provide feedback more than makes up for whatever cost keeping the servers online is running them. Game testers and Q @ A testers cost money, and typically you only get a few dozen that test for you, not thousands. So the "its free" defense no longer holds water for me. Simply put, we are being used. And to be honest, I am ok with that. Its not like they are trying to hide the fact that they are using the PC players as a means to improve the game. What I DO have problems with is them in no way rewarding us for our efforts. They show us all this new content but never give us clearly defined release dates for it (content mind you, not fixes) all the while showing us all these great things they are working on. After this last letter I think many of us are begining to feel like all that stuff is just a giant carrot on the end of a string. To make multiple refrences to adding new "dungeons" for months, then saying you plan to drop them on us in the next update, only to have this asshat post in this letter that they have completed ONE Dungeon and are working on the second one (but it wont be out till July now) is a complete slap in the face. When I hear the word DUNGEONS, I think of mulitple places, as in, more than ****ing 1 maybe 2. I understand they need to fix this game, but they also need to make the people that have continued playing it feel like they are important and needed. The only way to do this is to mix the fixes with actual content thats specifically for those of us that have a shitload of gil and nothing to spend it on, and one if not mulitple jobs at level 50. One level 50 "Dungeon" (notice the lack of an "s" on the end) after a release 9 months ago is not even close to enough, I dont care how good you think they are gonna be SE.

I could go on but the size of this post is getting out of hand. At this point my loyalty is waning, and I seriously think that them delaying this patch longer (however neccissary it may have been) is only setting our expectation even higher. (Not to mention throwing words around like "tremendous size" patch). We have all seen time and again how well huge amounts of expectation has worked out for SE in the past, and frankly, I think they are setting themselves up for failure with 1.18. I am positive that on top of auto-attack, 2 dungeons, and the combat tweeks they will add new gear and new nm's to the game in 1.18. But I am also now convinced that the majority of this "tremendous size" patch will be memory required to change the core game mechanics. As much as thats needed, its not content.

How about we see some rewards for those of us that are staying with you on this shitshow of a ride SE? Enough dangling the carrot in front of my face with talk of a materia systems and artifact gear. Give me something tangible and do it soon. If you cant do that while also fixing this game, then what you should have ****ing done is shut the servers down when the game flopped and told everyone that they wont come back online until you have fixed this mess. This using us to make the game better crap is actually starting to drive your most loyal fanbase away in a way they wont come back to you from. Ever.

Also, to those of you that say good ridance to people that quit, your idiots. Everytime someone rage quits it brings this game closer to never recovering. And nothing says " I am a douchebag" faster than cheering for your own team to lose. Everytime a player states they are quiting and not coming back , we should see it as a loss to the community, not cheer on our own demise.

I hope 1.18 is as awsome as they are trying to hype it to be, but frankly, many of us are getting battered wife syndrome SE. And it will only be so long before we no longer believe the "I swear I wont do it again baby" speech before we just pack up our **** and move out for good.

You are now free to flail me alive for this post my CORE peeps.

Sincerely,
Your Ol' Pal Biggs

P.S.
Longest
Post
Ever

Crazy how disappointing it is to see him give himself an extra 2 weeks of wiggle room without telling us (changing his guess from mid-June to late-June without saying anything until letter XI), then overstepping it by another 2 weeks. I don't see how that's acceptable to anyone.

He keeps saying how this will be the biggest patch to date, but that's not even saying much since our biggest patch before this wasn't "big" by any means.

3 months for one patch? Enough is enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Biggs

While I agree that it will be done when its done, as a current player, its hard to relax about when its done when they give false dates (or any dates at all) for when THEY think something will be done.

Its funny, most of us have been saying for years (from back during ffxi even) that Se needs to have more PR and inform the players whats going on more, but now that they are, I kinda wish they would just shut up lol. I like being in the loop to an extent but, they are way better off saying such and such will be ready when its ready than saying ambiguous statements like "mid-june at the earliest". Whether we want it to or not people, that sort of thing creates a false expectation that leads to the kind of dissapointment that fuels this current thread.

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this is why se should only listen to a handful of forum goers because like this guy most of you people have no clue what you want

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LateReg

Crazy how disappointing it is to see him give himself an extra 2 weeks of wiggle room without telling us (changing his guess from mid-June to late-June without saying anything until letter XI), then overstepping it by another 2 weeks. I don't see how that's acceptable to anyone.

He keeps saying how this will be the biggest patch to date, but that's not even saying much since our biggest patch before this wasn't "big" by any means.

3 months for one patch? Enough is enough.

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His original mid-June guess was stated as at the earliest. This was pretty clear to anybody who bothered to read the words that were published. He did not change his guess- the wiggle room was built into his original statement.

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Originally Posted by Lerris

His original mid-June guess was stated as at the earliest. This was pretty clear to anybody who bothered to read the words that were published. He did not change his guess- the wiggle room was built into his original statement.

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There is no sense in trying to reason with them.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

There is no sense in trying to reason with them.

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the concerns of people leaving will be valid when people start paying, and not before.

I think it should consider advertisement when its ready for subs, as not even panels at gaming conventions are helping it. Hosts intentionally avoid talking about the mmos, preferring instead "ooh what should they remake next!"

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Originally Posted by Kallera

the concerns of people leaving will be valid when people start paying, and not before.

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Exactly.

The deadline for making the game enjoyable, as far as I'm concerned, is the day they start charging subscription fees.

I personally don't care how long the update takes as long as it fixes a lot and for the good; at least Yoshi-P said its gonna take 2 weeks than nothing at all would of made more people pissed off so I think what he did was alright.

Now him saying this going to be the biggest patch... he better be right, both JP and NA forums talking now about 1.18 being the straw to leave or stay in FFXIV, pretty sure French and German side also got similar topics going around.

If what Yoshi-P is saying about 1.18 is just like the stupid poem released in what?? December last year? January this year? that made no sense at all... then I don't see much future for FFXIV and the dev staff I was hoping that will drastically change this game. It may happen but it's going to take much much longer than what most of us would of expected. I don't blame the new dev teams though, first off they shouldn't of used Crystal Engine in the first place, second they are picking up what the first dev team did/screwed up... I don't know whats their company policy on programming and writing proper notes on code so it's changeable in future with other devs but programming other peoples codes sometimes can be a major headache.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DNO

this is why se should only listen to a handful of forum goers because like this guy most of you people have no clue what you want

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Actually, as a current player, I have posted a pretty clear and defined expectation of what I want that I think is reasonable and well thought out. Its a paste over post from one I made on the CORE and its on page 35 of this thread. Its easier to be snide than it is to offer well thought out opinions about what you want. As evidenced by most of your posts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

I personally don't care how long the update takes as long as it fixes a lot and for the good; at least Yoshi-P said its gonna take 2 weeks than nothing at all would of made more people pissed off so I think what he did was alright.

Now him saying this going to be the biggest patch... he better be right, both JP and NA forums talking now about 1.18 being the straw to leave or stay in FFXIV, pretty sure French and German side also got similar topics going around.

If what Yoshi-P is saying about 1.18 is just like the stupid poem released in what?? December last year? January this year? that made no sense at all... then I don't see much future for FFXIV and the dev staff I was hoping that will drastically change this game. It may happen but it's going to take much much longer than what most of us would of expected. I don't blame the new dev teams though, first off they shouldn't of used Crystal Engine in the first place, second they are picking up what the first dev team did/screwed up... I don't know whats their company policy on programming and writing proper notes on code so it's changeable in future with other devs but programming other peoples codes sometimes can be a major headache.

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Thanks for the news on the JP players, please keep us up to date!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Actually, as a current player, I have posted a pretty clear and defined expectation of what I want that I think is reasonable and well thought out. Its a paste over post from one I made on the CORE and its on page 35 of this thread. Its easier to be snide than it is to offer well thought out opinions about what you want. As evidenced by most of your posts.

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That post is neither reasonable or well thought out, I am sorry to say.