YOSHI FIX THE DANG GIL ISSUE THAT IS KILLING OUR PLAYERS!!!

You want easy money ? be a leatherman, it help you create gils as investment long term, then harvest in miner and sell all the shard u have. you should have money in no time. I got 240K from this even I am only 37 for now ( main DRG)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ceol

Actually they changed that because lots of people complained on an individual level, not because more gil is being destroyed than created.

---

You're just mad because the devs acknowledged it was an issue that you were unable to understand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ceol

Actually they changed that because lots of people complained on an individual level, not because more gil is being destroyed than created.

---

Spin it baby, spin it!

They are making repair costs lowered after tomorrow's maintenance. Gil problem should be solved!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syfin

They are making repair costs lowered after tomorrow's maintenance. Gil problem should be solved!

---

Won't be enough to satisfy those concerned about the looming deflation. (That IMO doesn't exist.) You heard it here first :p

If you're losing money you're teleporting around too much and blowing it. Hardly anything from vendors is expensive and repairs really are not all that much.

yeah lets have communism and socialism that will work!

Fixing repairs only plugs up a hole in the economy tank of water. However the water inside still isn't circulating so the water will still stagnate. Disciples of War and Magic don't need anything crafted from the crafters other than a one time relic weapon base and maybe consumables. Lots of items will hang in on the market board with crafters undercutting each other until items are worthless and once crafters catch wind of this (which they probably already have) they stop buying from the gatherers who also stop gathering since it's no longer worth it. In short, I'm of the opinion that the problem still isn't solved unless what SE is planning to do is to cut off the other two branch of classes. This is my main concern and if anyone has any ideas/information pointing to the contrary please let me know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rikudou-Sennin

According to most of those snake oil websites they use the in-game mail system to send the gil, or they trade you in person.. how do they steal anything doing that?

---

GO to their website. END up with a keylogger. CLuelessly logs onto account. Bam there goes your account.

Its more or less a personal security issue than something that happens ingame.

Honestly lowering repair costs more or less soothes my concerns. As it is now, it costs too damn much to repair my stuff, so the idea of it being cheaper (even a little cheaper!) eases my mind. Right now the costs equal about the income the average player got from doing the usual runs of dungeons or what have you, you were lucky to break even in other words. If this allows for a small profit (even if it only amounts to a few hundred gil) that is more than enough to make me happy. I don't mind expensive repairs, so long as they don't cost as much (or more) than I make being an adventurer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krisan

Honestly lowering repair costs more or less soothes my concerns. As it is now, it costs too damn much to repair my stuff, so the idea of it being cheaper (even a little cheaper!) eases my mind. Right now the costs equal about the income the average player got from doing the usual runs of dungeons or what have you, you were lucky to break even in other words. If this allows for a small profit (even if it only amounts to a few hundred gil) that is more than enough to make me happy. I don't mind expensive repairs, so long as they don't cost as much (or more) than I make being an adventurer.

---

This is pretty much how I feel. Thanks for wording it :)

Dramatic OP, although I agree with you about very little new money coming into the game, It's not hard to make money from crafting/gathering.

Maintenance will also fix the cost of repairs, although this still doesn't fix the issue with little money coming into the servers, I expect this will be a work in progress for SE, I.e. they would rather have less money than too much as they can adapt to that more quickly.

Are you guys even understand what he meant by the Economy?

Keep bringing Crafting/Gathering ISN'T what he was talking about. That's transferring Gil BETWEEN PLAYERS, doesn't even make any sense.

And tbh, ppl who brought this issue up here are actually having at least 1 lvl 50 crafting/gathering class (i've seen 1 with everything lvl 50 and 1 with 4 crafting/2 gathering classes lvl 50), SO OBVIOUSLY THEY ARE NOT QQING ABOUT "DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKE MONEY". Plz, post something useful.

The consensus of the entitled seems to be level a crafting profession, rely on the transferring of hands, lean on the daily leve allowance, and find a "niche." The problem is end game isn't generating enough gil (obviously gil is being generated once the quests have dried up) so players are forced to seek alternative means to progress in their play style--economics aside--and all of which lead to appeals of popularity (fallacy) that those who don't want to play their way (crafting) have no excuse to complain about the deficit dungeons, FATES, TRIALS, or 8 mans are putting them in. Shame they can't understand the fundamentals of a multi-media online game: to play with other individuals in a unique experience and enjoyable fashion (I stress enjoyable).

Final Fantasy XIV ARR has not been marketed, advertised, or even promoted as a sim-city, minecraft, or economic experience. Crafting is simply a part of the game play: a caveat, tool, or mechanic to the fantasy experience. No were did Square Enix say to the consumer they'd be embroiled in a broken economy, and forced to amass as much wealth as possible in order to experience the fantasy aspect of their game. Final Fantasy has never been about crafting, personal wealth, or even economics. Final Fantasy has been about the story, the characters, and fighting fantastical creatures.

If players can not enjoy the fantasy aspects of the (that they are paying for as well) game marketed to them, and must progress in skinner like mechanics or outside of their ideas of entertainment, then the game will begin to bleed subscribers, and the less players we have the less gil (period) transferring hands. The first month of an MMO is always lively and full of fresh new faces until the vainer runs off and the problems of the game begin to surface. I want to believe those who are adamant about no gil issues existing are simply using fallacies of generalization, false dilemmas, argument from ignorance, rhetoric, and anecdote are just poor attempts at scamming fellow players, and not their actual beliefs; but I don't think this is the case.

Reality: when the players actually start feeling like their performing a "labor" (work) instead of "playing" (entertainment) a game our community is going to have issues of population along with gil. The bottom line is this: the players who want to experience the dungeons, mob slaying, and raiding should not be forced to take part in mechanics that have nothing to do with combat (what they enjoy). No one can generate enough money at end game doing FATES, DUNGEONS, or Battle Leves to cover the costs of repairs. Players are speaking from experience, so we have a clear case of denial, ignorance, and plain stupidity running rampant in this thread and game.

To make matters worse players are arguing against the use of features included in the game (apart of the experience): teleportation, dungeons, wearing and using items earned through play and time; which basically says two things about those having these thoughts and those swallowing these thoughts: "nucking" retards. I never thought I would see arguments telling individuals how they are allowed to play the game, and sure people can argue semantics all they like on how best to play, but this amount of arrogance going hand-in-hand with entitlement is borderline fascism.

TL;DR: This is what the whole argument boils down to: you aren't allowed to be an adventurer to earn a living, so you will be a craftsmen to make money, when the real issue is the fundamental systems in place are broken. The OP is right: if we don't want to see players bleed off in droves an economic fix is needed.

I have an idea. Why not allow items at 100% spiritbond be broken down into materia OR dark matter with grade based on the level of the equipment?

Just a thought.

Well I have no gather or crafter class but I still have nearly 400k and I am lvl 38 lol never had Gil problems so far.. seems I get more than I need.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

I just don't have the energy to read through the posts anymore. 50% of people don't understand what the thread is about, the other 50% don't care because it doesn't affect them (yet).

I understand the problem, and I agree with those on the forums that understand that there is a problem. This needs to be addressed.

Let us gather Grade 5 Dark Matter again.

Let crafters repair other people's gear again.

Let those who don't understand/don't care suffer apoplexy and be unable to type anymore.

Amen.

---

How about rewarding dark matter on Battle/Grand Company leves ?

Doesn't make sense to have it on a gathering class if you want to fix the economy otherwise you are just passing money from one player to the next as we already are.

The fact that repair cost and dark matter price are being lowered means that the Gil problem was real and acknowledge. We shall see how thing develop from now on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thotor

The fact that repair cost and dark matter price are being lowered means that the Gil problem was real and acknowledge.

---

Not really. It just means people complained about repair costs. People complain about a lot of things that SE changes. Doesn't mean there is some deep seated problem behind the scenes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brolleun-Hunter

The consensus of the entitled seems to be level a crafting profession, rely on the transferring of hands, lean on the daily leve allowance, and find a "niche." The problem is end game isn't generating enough gil (obviously gil is being generated once the quests have dried up) so players are forced to seek alternative means to progress in their play style--economics aside--and all of which lead to appeals of popularity (fallacy) that those who don't want to play their way (crafting) have no excuse to complain about the deficit dungeons, FATES, TRIALS, or 8 mans are putting them in.

---

Only looking at endgame ignores all players not at endgame. There is not a separate economy for endgame. If the issue is economic deflation and not personal wealth accumulation, then you are ignoring half the equation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteGarden

Not really. It just means people complained about repair costs. People complain about a lot of things that SE changes. Doesn't mean there is some deep seated problem behind the scenes.

---

Lol ppl just don't wanna admit they were wrong & their SE god made mistakes :p. Take a look at 1.0 and read your own words again...
Loading...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteGarden

Not really. It just means people complained about repair costs. People complain about a lot of things that SE changes. Doesn't mean there is some deep seated problem behind the scenes.

---

You must have blinkers on if you didn't see the issue, I can make a lot of money from crafting and I do, but it still doesn't mean that people who don't want to craft or gather can't afford to sustain themselves.

Crafting and Gathering isn't for everybody.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

For myself, since I've run out of grade 5 dark matter and have hoarded mats, it's cheaper for me to just craft new gear and convert the old rather than pay for repairs or dark matter.

---

That is awesome, like ridiculously awesome. If no one else sees an issue with that I must be taking crazy pills.

Though I will ask if you've tried out some of the 3 item turn in crafting leves, you can turn those in up to 3 times and get triple the reward each turn in if you use all HQ. Huge pain in the ass but potential pay out of 9x the listed gil amount if you can reliably pump out HQ and you gather your own materials. It's not always best to do the highest level ones, I do the highest level one that I have a 90-100% HQ chance on the item.

this is sadly a common issue with game economies in theme-park games. if there is not some way of creating new gold (generally through a type of "dailies") then the only thing that really happens is gold transfer between players, and a higher demand for gold from the gold farmers.

I did a bit of number crunching - Let me say up front that I am not a level 50 anything, but using the standard level allowance of 6 leves per day, at lvl 20 I turn out 7416g in new gil in roughly three hours with nothing but armorsmith 20 and miner 20 by creating 18 Ironclad Bronze Bucklers and turning them in for levequest rewards. The Opportunity cost of selling the materials to a vendor (remember - we are only looking at new gil creation) is 54g, and if I managed to completely break both my crafting set and gathering set in the process (I won't) I would spend 1820G repairing it (though this does require a small investment in other crafting skills - LTW, WVR, and BSM).

Edit to add:

This is a net new gil gain of (very conservatively) 1865.333(repeating) gil per hour

I have yet to get to end game, but I really can't see it actually being lower at lvl 50. Basically, what I'm saying is: Find a gil teat and hook up to it. End-game raiding should never be a money making prospect. I expect to have to farm for one hour (at least) for every hour spent raiding. In WoW it was for materials for potions/flasks/etc. In FFXIV it's for repairs. If your repair bills are sky-high, and you are not getting the gear you expect for the amount of effort you are putting in, I might suggest dying less.

Of course you can maintain that "crafting isn't fun," or whatever, but if you are saying that the economy is broken, I would suggest that perhaps it isn't that there is not enough gil coming into the economy as a whole, but that you simply haven't found a way to make new gil that you find enjoyable. These are two very different things.

You just don't know how to farm gils... quality tradecraft items needed in leves or just shards can give u a nice quantity of gil, or just to farm for 1h I don't know like diremite webs or any key material for a profession actually makes u rich ...

Here come the daily quests a' la WoW.

No thanks.

While i agree the gill stream is a little different ingame you just have to sell what people need guys. Like i said hopefully after my gill guide everyone will be making some gil.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AsakuraVN

Lol ppl just don't wanna admit they were wrong & their SE god made mistakes :p. Take a look at 1.0 and read your own words again...
Loading...

---

It's like during beta, when we had this huge thread about taking damage despite moving out of the AoE and some people were like "L2P, there's nothing wrong, you're just bad." then Yoshi-P confirmed it was an issue but these guys were still in denial.

They're just not mature enough to admit when they're wrong.

Cmon People!, the reason you have no money is because you are not working!, Ya know cause FF14 should be treated as a job!

Jokes aside I do believe the gil sinks need to be tuned down, glad SE is working on that , I personally think market tax sucks! If no one is getting a benefit from market tax why in hells is there?

I shouldn't be complaining much since I am only lvl 30 and im sitting close to 200k g by selling surplus. Hey but not everyone is up for crafting and gathering, guess those who fight a lot should have a means to get money trough that without having to grind one thing only.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mmcsky

Jokes aside I do believe the gil sinks need to be tuned down, glad SE is working on that , I personally think market tax sucks! If no one is getting a benefit from market tax why in hells is there?

---

The planned benefit is that it should help to spread evenly the retainers.
If in a city are less retainers registered, the tax sink in this city. You can inform yourself about the actual taxes and re-register your retainer to another city by the NPC near the retainer bell in the market district.

I make around 100k gils everyday (225k gils best day) just by sitting in front of the AH.

faster, cheaper, easier than farming leves for peanuts.

You guys keep farming for a bit, i'll take the rest.

And Thank you of course for feeding me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nils1986

I make around 100k gils everyday (225k gils best day) just by sitting in front of the AH.

faster, cheaper, easier than farming leves for peanuts.

You guys keep farming for a bit, i'll take the rest.

And Thank you of course for feeding me.

---

You make nothing, you take money from other.

Boring 90 % of the guys who don't understand, me too i get money, me too i sell lot of thing, did this money was created by me ? Or been give to me by other player ?

Humanoid lvl 50 monster give like 1 - 4 gils, this is a bug or something, i can't trust that work like intented...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Harmonium

You make nothing, you take money from other.

Boring 90 % of the guys who don't understand, me too i get money, me too i sell lot of thing, did this money was created by me ? Or been give to me by other player ?

Humanoid lvl 50 monster give like 1 - 4 gils, this is a bug or something, i can't trust that work like intented...

---

He has a point though, if making money is a worry, there is hardly a problem if you apply yourself.

Is just that we all like to play do gooders and jump on the nerf wagon when we are really looking to our own benefit in the long run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Harmonium

You make nothing, you take money from other.

Boring 90 % of the guys who don't understand, me too i get money, me too i sell lot of thing, did this money was created by me ? Or been give to me by other player ?

Humanoid lvl 50 monster give like 1 - 4 gils, this is a bug or something, i can't trust that work like intented...

---

Or perhaps they do understand, I noticed right away that there were mad gilsinks in the game and that prices were never going to be as high as they were with the recent influx of new player gil. I've amassed a small fortune by focusing on crafting and gathering from the outset why everyone else spammed new dungeons/etc. Now they have no gil to keep up repairs while I have enough gil to set me over for the remainder of the year. The people who saw the signs early on should have focused on grabbing the remaining gil while they could instead of just crying for dailies/cheaper repairs/etc.

Those things would come eventually but that boost of gil from all the newbies will not come again. I don't feel the least bit sorry, I am however glad that SE is addressing the issue but I wonder will those that ran themselves into the red come out again?

Yes Wobi that what i said, you have make fortune by taking money of the story quest from other player (by sell thing etc).

But now they are stuck, because they can't create any money you see.

Me i have no problem too, but sometime maybe my money will down day after day.

But people who only focus the story quest, and they buy the weapon (for legendary) and two materias and now they are gone with money.

They are realy owned and stuck, i think this is the main problem.

They must be a way to CREATE money in the game.

Except leves craft (that why i do) but any other way, like farm mob who loot some gils etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myrdyn_Wyldt

I did a bit of number crunching - Let me say up front that I am not a level 50 anything, but using the standard level allowance of 6 leves per day, at lvl 20 I turn out 7416g in new gil in roughly three hours with nothing but armorsmith 20 and miner 20 by creating 18 Ironclad Bronze Bucklers and turning them in for levequest rewards. The Opportunity cost of selling the materials to a vendor (remember - we are only looking at new gil creation) is 54g, and if I managed to completely break both my crafting set and gathering set in the process (I won't) I would spend 1820G repairing it (though this does require a small investment in other crafting skills - LTW, WVR, and BSM).

Edit to add:

This is a net new gil gain of (very conservatively) 1865.333(repeating) gil per hour

I have yet to get to end game, but I really can't see it actually being lower at lvl 50. Basically, what I'm saying is: Find a gil teat and hook up to it. End-game raiding should never be a money making prospect. I expect to have to farm for one hour (at least) for every hour spent raiding. In WoW it was for materials for potions/flasks/etc. In FFXIV it's for repairs. If your repair bills are sky-high, and you are not getting the gear you expect for the amount of effort you are putting in, I might suggest dying less.

Of course you can maintain that "crafting isn't fun," or whatever, but if you are saying that the economy is broken, I would suggest that perhaps it isn't that there is not enough gil coming into the economy as a whole, but that you simply haven't found a way to make new gil that you find enjoyable. These are two very different things.

---

Alright so I was wondering about this myself so I used the time I had before the server reboot to get an idea of this.

Firstly, you can turn in HQ versions for 3x the payout, for me that was 1200 gil. With the 3 item leves, you can turn them in an additional 2 times for a single leve charge, so thats 3600 gil a leve.

So if we turn in 9 HQ shields 6 times, that's 21600 gil brought into the economy, which is actually pretty good. This is probably the best way in the game to create new gil. So lets look at what that takes:

54 HQ ironclads:
648 ice shards
108 earth shards
324 iron ore
432 copper ore
216 tin ore

Ok firstly we'll buy the copper and tin ore as those are 2 gil a piece on the vendor. You don't need HQ ore to make HQ shields at higher levels, so there's no need to farm ore. so that's ~ 1300 gil off our profit leaving a profit of ~20k gil (since prices are variable on turn in)

So we need to farm 648 + 108 + 324 = ~1100 mats

Mats take about 10 minutes for 100 to farm, so we're at 110 minutes so far. Lets round that up to 2 hours. Lets add 30 minutes travel time since we're trying to make money so we don't want to use teleports. So we're at 2.5 hours for the mats.

Now lets consider combine time:
54 iron clad shields
54 bronze bucklers
108 iron rivets
54 bronze plates
216 bronze ingots
108 iron ingots

With the ingots, we can squeak by at my level (40) and do quick synths as we don't need HQ ingots. We will need HQ everything else though. So lets consider those 300ish quick synths, I think it'll take 30 minutes or so?

So we're up to 3 hours.

So that leaves us with ~ 250 HQ combines, which we're going to watch to ensure HQ so lets say, 3 hours? That's about 40 seconds a combine.

So now we're up to 6 hours and all our leves done and we've got a profit of 20k. And this is close to the best output that we can do with NPC turn ins.

I did 1 set of 9 HQ and it took about an hour and some, gathering mats, buying copper and tin off the vendor and doing all the combines so 6 hours seems like a pretty good prediction. While I was doing this, I got multiple tells from gil farmers offering to sell me 100k gil for 7 dollars. So theoretically I could work a 6 hour shift at McDonalds, and come up with enough cash to buy 600k gil which is the equivalent of a month of doing these 3 for 3 crafting leves.

If I really tried to do these each day, I'd be batshit crazy by the third day. A much better use of my time is to turn in 6 HQ mythril ingots which will take me around 30 minutes to procure and make 5400 gil (25% of the profit).

And this is the BEST way to make money in the game at the moment.

Being on a Legacy server gil for repairs isn't much of a problem people had lots of gil saved up from 1.0. However I can see an issue if you are on a new server. But this issue is getting fixed in the maintenance today with lower repair costs.

My biggest fear is, with gil being harder to obtain, "Gil selling" is going to be a constant nuisance because as gaming has become casual people dont have time to "make gil" anymore, so people will buy it. If gil was stupid easy to get, no one would need/want to buy it. FFXi is a good example: Old FFXI (pre-abyssea for people who still play/ed) gil was hard to come buy, end game ran the show.. but as soon as abyssea was introduced and end game content was lowered/eliminated gil is much much easier to make, and gil selling/tells have gone down so dramatically.. Even though game population has as well, i think this played a huge role in dialing it down.

Now 14 should either make gil needed to only a very small degree.. (ax repair bills, make most items farmable etc) or they need to make it much much easier to obtain it with minimal effort and costs ( gil needed to even start crafting etc)

Also nothing should NPC for less then 100 gil, 1 gil is just silly at least give us something

New server experience for me and my friends.
*reverses gear for level 3 materia*
*fails*
*buys level 3 materia for relic but prices are so high because people need money*
*crafts and gathers*
*makes small amount of money*
*runs end game*
*makes small amount of money*
*GEAR REPAIRS >:P*
/cry