Tank healing is to high

"I don't see any problem so I will invalidate the experience of everyone else"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Praesul

If the game is already easy (and believe me, it is 90% of the time) enough to not "require" healers then what difference does it make right now? People were already doing cheesy no healer runs last expansion, and the expansion before. It's not new.

Again, incoming damage should go up rather than things being taken away from other roles. It doesn't have to be drastic enough that casual players can't complete things, but enough to apparently force GCD heals out of players since that's seemingly what people want. Let's ignore the fact that tanks can't raise, don't have an rDPS increase, and don't have consistently available aoe healing.

You don't see me complaining when I get a normal mode encounter that has two tanks but no actual mechanics for the 2nd tank. I'm just there as a gimp DPS and that's fine, you're there for safety. In the same way that fates are so easy oftentimes you can do them without a tank or a healer. Game's not balanced around fates, and the flexibility of not need specific roles is a good thing actually. If you're a tank or a healer in a fate party you add way more safety though, and there's still value in having you around even if you're not "required".

---

I know that´s the most content is trash anyway, but just scaling around with the content or coming with more instadeath-mechanics wouldn´t change anything but cause frustration to the most players. And no, it´s not a new thing. Tanks are broken for a long time now, EW just made it a step worse once again. Only 1 fight in Shb has forced the tanks to melt their defs into tankbuster, E12s and that was it.

So now... what might happen when you just flat scale the damage up from bosses? Tanks get more damage with autohits and through tankbusters. So you´ve to use all your cd´s. But is it good gameplay? And what if you miss 1 def? And what´s with the whole group once you fckd up? Just another insta-wipe because i played failed to press a button? It´s a bad design so far.

Every class should be able to have some self-sustain, some surviveability. But it shouldn´t be usable every 30s, shouldn´t outclass healer and it shouldn´t make a one-man-army out of it.
For example... stuff like the GNB invul would be perfect on a DPS-melee. Why? As emergency button when things go nuts, when the tank died and you might get slapped out of your shoes. But no, tanks which are already strong af, sitting on invul to play around swap-mechanics. Standard mechanics tanks should get used too, but rarely do, thx to invul.

Another one are all those new multitools. Why does such strong skills without any con even exist? What´s the purpose of them? Tanks are able to survive everything even with 5 vuln stacks, but they get such defs on top of it? Meanwhile healer and DPS classes die poorly to the next raidwide with 1 stack? How would it look like with more damage-incomes? That you need a Scholar and all his barriers at any aoe?

I´m really up for any new challenge since i could write novels about "what´s wrong with the games difficulty, balancing and learning curve", but i could also write novels "what´s wrong with tanks". We need more hardhitting content to force more out of tanks yes, but tanks also shouldn´t have more defs than their 123 rotation. Defs should be implemented in a more difficult rotation or locked behind ressources instead of just cooldowns. TBN is a great example for a great def, which is strong when it´s correct used, but will cost you everything if you fck it up. And ofcourse there shouldn´t be major defs to solo everything.
On top nearly every class should get some form of emergency skills and DPS should get more to do than being there to drift around with their rotation while relying on the healers at any raidwide. (And no, Chakra and Bloodbath are a joke. Roleskills overall are.)

If we´ve reached a state where tanks aren´t superior in everything, DPS can eat more than 1 autohit and healers actually use GDC heals, combined with some depth in mechanics, then everything would be great. But it´s not possible to adjust the content in such a direction, when tanks sit on superior tools and only instadeath mechanics are able to kill them.

For once I aggree with you ssunny, Invuln are too relied on and this causes some staleness.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalaam

For once I aggree with you ssunny, Invuln are too relied on and this causes some staleness.

---

Does it particularly matter that they're invulns, though, as opposed to any other defensive?

How does it become an issue of "our strongest per-use defensives seem too important" rather than just "there isn't enough else to mitigate" or "our other defensives aren't frequent enough to make our strongest defensives feel as rare as they are powerful"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

This thread is a freaking joke. All I’m reading is good healers are upset there are buttons now to make it so that their job is easier if the tank can play the game. Do you know how many DF runs i’ve done and seen terrible healers/tanks while playing opposite roles. I don’t honestly care if you think healing is trivialized cause it’s just a load of crap. Unless the tank is good and knows to rotate mitigation, can use it on first pulled mob, doesn’t stand in bad, can time certain cds for TB AND is geared well then my job is VERY active. I find myself using adloquiem far more this expansion than last one.

On the tank side unless my healer understands how to weave, can plan ahead, knows how to use buttons like regen, sacred soil, knows not to just press physic/cure1/bend ic 1, is geared gets how to maintain mana and also dps like it goes on and on bro stop crying you feel unneeded. You want to see the state of the games current real skill level go que up for duty finder 10 times and DONT kick bad tank or healer opposite of what you play.

---

Just because a lot of ppl, without any clue of their class and possibilities, keep running around, doesn´t mean that everything needs to be overtuned af.

This game has a huge gap between good / bad players, which shows that the learning curve is crap, the "easier please" buttons a fail-design and simplification / homogenization the worst thing which could´ve happen to the game. It´s SE´s and all the complainers fault that so many bad players running around. But a lot of poeple has proven the opposit = Tanks are overtuned.

Invuln' are kind of "get out of jail free" card for some mechanics. Now, if the fight is build with it in mind I guess it is fine, but on the other hand it just uses it to remove it from your options so you do not cheese other mechanics with it.

By that notion, remove rez skills from non healers, RDM and SMN being able to recover a group from a wipe by getting the healers up is too OP.
There is no end to balancing for individuals. I'm glad neither any of you nor I have any say in that.

This is not Blizzard, SE won't go on a nerf spree because of a forum crusade with nerf advocates.

There is a difference between making a whole role optional for a huge chunk of the game's content, and 1 job having the possibility to bring everyone back on their feet (but not to full health and at the cost of dumping all of their ressources) so everyone can keep fighting and playing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atreides

By that notion, remove rez skills from non healers, RDM and SMN being able to recover a group from a wipe by getting the healers up is too OP.

---

Well in the defense of the RDM, it's literally half a White Mage so...
Don't ask me about SMN having rez. It's still tied to ACN/SCH so it's all weird anyways lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atreides

By that notion, remove rez skills from non healers, RDM and SMN being able to recover a group from a wipe by getting the healers up is too OP.

---

Yes it is, like LB3 is. Get ride of them, add only 1 rezz per fight, but give every class more opportunities. This would be really great and skill-depended gameplay without the frustration to wipe, because 1 out of 8 players died again right before "cross lions, relativity, light rampant,...", just to name a few of the latest very popular mechanics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Yes it is, like LB3 is. Get ride of them, add only 1 rezz per fight, but give every class more opportunities. This would be really great and skill-depended gameplay without the frustration to wipe, because 1 out of 8 players died again right before "cross lions, relativity, light rampant,...", just to name a few of the latest very popular mechanics.

---

I’m convinced this is a troll thread. Tanks are now actually saying HG/Holm/SB need nerfs LOL. As a tank and healer i’m just dying laughing right now what a feeling joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalaam

Invuln' are kind of "get out of jail free" card for some mechanics. Now, if the fight is build with it in mind I guess it is fine, but on the other hand it just uses it to remove it from your options so you do not cheese other mechanics with it.

---

Every sufficient (set of) defensive(s) is likewise a "get out of jail free" card, though, so long as it and the mechanics around it could otherwise have been survived without it.

I don't see why that would make invulns inherently bad, unless we'd also go so far as to say that Surecast, Swiftcast, Rescue, and the like are similarly "cheese" that must be curtailed or removed. (Don't need to preposition for or wait until after the DDR mechanics nor sacrifice more than a GCD's uptime to rez; just Swiftcast, up to once per minute. Don't need to do the movement mechanic to prevent death by knockback; just Surecast, up to once per two minutes.)

If they seem overly impactful at present, it's likely because they're not accounted for to the extent they should be. We have stackable healer external mitigation up to our ears; there's no reason to assume we should be able to spare a single tank CD, let alone at least one healer's barrier or percentile mitigation suite, to keep a pair of tanks alive without an invuln. Increase the frequency and power of moderate tankbusters (the kind that need mitigation and a top-off, but won't kill over a +/- 5% or missing food) and once invulns are no longer a way to simply leave other cooldowns on reserve out of sheer ease or additional healer offensive GCDs, voila, they'd no longer feel like "cheese" so much as a powerful emergency button by which to resurface for air or recover a single overexpenditure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

I’m convinced this is a troll thread. Tanks are now actually saying HG/Holm/SB need nerfs LOL. As a tank and healer i’m just dying laughing right now what a feeling joke.

---

They've been saying that since HW, and increasingly with each unasked for or controversial buff to said invulns. Why would those complaints' still being a thing make this a "troll thread"?

I don't necessarily agree with them, but that sentiments have been around basically since Holmgang stopped being a mere mob-grab / punishing knockback resist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

I’m convinced this is a troll thread. Tanks are now actually saying HG/Holm/SB need nerfs LOL. As a tank and healer i’m just dying laughing right now what a feeling joke.

---

I mean my stuff serious. Invuls are way too strong and let tanks skip way too much mechanics they should play around. They´re better placed on DPS classes in emergency-situations or shouldn´t even exist.
And stuff like permarezz is way too forgivable too. I´ve seen dozens of grps killing a boss only with healer LB3, which is laughable since you´re able to skip whole mechanics too as long as you´ve 1 healer or rezzplayer knowing what to do. That the whole raid don´t even get a weakness debuff after it, is laughable at best. Healer LB3 should definately not exist meanwhile rezz should´ve a raid-cooldown which might increase like "1st rezz 30s cd, 2nd rezz 1min cd,..."

Such tools are a major reason why we can´t have some serious content. Way too much stuff is too powerful or too forgivable, so the only chance to give us something challenging is called "instadeath, instawipe". I would always trade such major skills for a better and skill-depended gameplay, where you can live without that 8 person if needed and if you´re good enough ofc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Every sufficient (set of) defensive(s) is likewise a "get out of jail free" card, though, so long as it and the mechanics around it could otherwise have been survived without it.

---

Using multiple buttons is more than using one button, but that´s not even the point. Multiple tankbuster, where you would need to taunt, heal against stacks or whatever (E12 / E10) are outplayed by the use of invul. PLD could even bring the healer through a deadly mechanic to use LB3 after. That´s just lame.
Tanks have already way too less stuff to care for in their role. Invul makes the one last thing even worse. Not even for them only, also for the healer.

None skill should allow such stuff. And while you said "Rescue"... it´s actually a perfect example for such emergency buttons. To be that fast to safe that one person in strong mechanics is somehow different than pressing 1 button to be immune the next x seconds and to ignore tankswaps or even debuffs on PLD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Using multiple buttons is more than using one button, but that´s not even the point. Multiple tankbuster, where you would need to taunt, heal against stacks or whatever (E12 / E10) are outplayed by the use of invul. PLD could even bring the healer through a deadly mechanic to use LB3 after. That´s just lame.
Tanks have already way too less stuff to care for in their role. Invul makes the one last thing even worse. Not even for them only, also for the healer.

---

You do know the fights are balanced in part around tanks abusing their invulns, right? Making effective use of your invulns is very much part of being a good tank, and it certainly does qualify as a role responsibility despite all the protestations.
Invulnerabilities trivialize nothing. You are still going to wipe if the rest of your group isn't holding things down on their end.

That's not entirely true, Invuls had beeing trivialicing combat mechanics making his execution way more easy to handle is always has being a thing but in SHB has been specialy severe due the fighs having oo little tank busters and tank mechanics you complete the fight by 1º TB using invul, 2º TB using all your CDs and 3º TB using your invul again and you pass the combat.
We don't have mitigation management since so long due the poor encounter design from a tank perspective that Invul feel like they just make the tank high end experience more brain dead of what is already is, it need to be nerfed or removed? mmm idk but what i think is the encounter design should double the amount of TBs and make sure every fight involve proper mitigation management from both tanks and not just a couple TB per encounter leaving our kit mostly unused and wasted on AA or used bcs you are bored.

this thread is absurd.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absimiliard

You do know the fights are balanced in part around tanks abusing their invulns, right? Making effective use of your invulns is very much part of being a good tank, and it certainly does qualify as a role responsibility despite all the protestations.
Invulnerabilities trivialize nothing. You are still going to wipe if the rest of your group isn't holding things down on their end.

---

The content is balanced around the worse stuff possible yes. But you could take several tankbuster with 1-2 defs + healersupport too. At some you would need to swap, ofc... even if the content doesn´t force it, it should be done to keep the cooldowns rolling and to assist the healers.
But it´s not needed, pressing "invul" makes everything obsolet and leave the most defs untouched for the rest of the fight, since autohits are healed by playing 123. Not to mention that being OT these days is really nothing more than being a blue DPS. You don´t have anything to do unless the raid wants you to take the 2nd tankbuster with invul or you´ve doubletankbusters like in E12. The most fights went even so far that the MT is like "Thx for eating the tankbuster, i´ll take the boss back now."

If invul stays in the game, they should delete all but the unique defs on tanks, because they´re not really needed with it in the bag. Otherwise we need way bosses like the current first primal, which force you to swap and to stay like this, or P3 with the shared damage, but with the tripled amount of damage / tankbusters.

And just as a sidenote... it goes so far imo, that i´ve to use my heal on SGE into nowhere, just to get 7% mana back to keep spamming 11111. It says enough i guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Snip

---

There have been far, far, far too many situations in the history of this entire game where a Tank using their Invuln has prevented a 24 man raid, much less other content, from being a massive, colossal waste of time for everyone involved.


No. Tank Invulns stay.

They can make a tremendous amount of difference for all involved, and I as a Dark Knight have prevented way too many Ivalice Raids back in the day from failing entirely thanks to the scant few seconds more LD granted me against a boss with a sliver of health whilst the alliance was dead around me.

Even as much as I hate LD, I will gladly fire it off if it means the difference between victory, or everyone having to fight a difficult boss for yet another span of time when they just want it done with so they can move on to other things.

This is an absolute joke. Before anyone comments on this thread about the current state of tanking you should be SUBJECT to duty finder/party finder groups for a few weeks of leveling classes. You will see the real state of the game and understand why there are so many things in it to make casual/even competitive non static stuff the way it is.

You know that magical moment of your youth when you play your first single player video game and discover a cheat code that makes you permanently invincible? It's the coolest thing ever for all of five minutes, and then you realize... it's actually incredibly boring. Well, let's just say that some people are really bad at pattern recognition.

Invulns are only really used for busters, what difference would it make?

You can't use them to cheese most mechanics, only damage downs can be blocked with zero damage since it's a trend, other debuffs are going to bypass it either way. 1st EX trial (Z) buster debuff bypasses HG/Bolide, no damage but you'll still receive it, and Paladin Hallowed Ground Cover cheesing, got nerfed making sure you couldn't, using Cover on DPS/Healers to soak their mechanic requires coordination, something you won't be doing in PF. Or a good example of E6S Ifrit busters, you're sent flying to the sky regardless of 0 damage, unless you used Living Dead/Hallowed before Holmgang/Bolide buff, you were good as dead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyth

You know that magical moment of your youth when you play your first single player video game and discover a cheat code that makes you permanently invincible? It's the coolest thing ever for all of five minutes, and then you realize... it's actually incredibly boring. Well, let's just say that some people are really bad at pattern recognition.

---

This is not a good comparison, tank healing didn't just suddenly turn a challenging game into a something you can't fail. Combat in this game has been getting progressively more boring for quite some time, nor has there been much difficulty in the vast majority of content for years. Tanks current healing capabilities didn't just create some massive shift in the gameplay experience.

As a sage main it I totally love it honestly, since sage is a high dps contributing shield healer, tanks pld/gnb/warrior makes my job even more fun and not stressful. Besides a pld/gnb/warrior able to solo a boss if things go down south if me and dps some how die, can finish up at least light party bosses, Dark Knight I would love if they get that same treatment sheesh aint nothing annoying that killing my entire resource on a dark night while a pld/gnb/breaker I press only 1 to 2 heals and warrior 1 to 0 heals cause of kardia + glint = stupid op xD. It use to bother me but not anymore, I seen the light how it actually is nice for tanks to have high self healing. Please SE give the dark knights some better self heal too.

This is still the most useless thread ever.

You know, I find this fascinating. Every so often someone goes through the effort to bump every single thread on the first page except for this one in an attempt to force it on to the second page. It's not particularly subtle. And it's been the same poster each time. It's an extraordinary amount of effort for something so easily undone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhais

...

---

I do think it's been a gradual deterioration overall. I'm more speaking to the question posed earlier on "Why wouldn't you want yourself to have more buffs? Why wouldn't you want your job to be stronger?" At the end of the day, an achievement is only as good as the effort taken to get you there. I think the decision to have tanks passively self-heal as part of commonly executed actions cheapens the experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhais

This is not a good comparison, tank healing didn't just suddenly turn a challenging game into a something you can't fail. Combat in this game has been getting progressively more boring for quite some time, nor has there been much difficulty in the vast majority of content for years. Tanks current healing capabilities didn't just create some massive shift in the gameplay experience.

---

Combat getting less engaging, overall, over time does not mean we cannot or should not complain about the combat getting less engaging in specific areas, too, such as in tanking.

Some tanking tools (i.e., means of mitigation or regeneration) are more engaging than others. Generally, that engagement aligns with (A) what seems to visibly interact with content (the tank's cool-looking effects going off just before --or after, if a reactive-- the encounter's cool-looking effect) and (B) what would reward player skill (e.g., when you had to smartly realign CDs or save resources, as if by gambit, in order to pull off the above).

HoTs and flat per-hit heals are about as far from that as you can get. Bloodwhetting, for instance, at least still rewards saving auto-crits, but every other shade of preparing a Nascent window is now gone, no longer rewarded. Gunbreaker's new Excog build-in on HoC times itself, removing that element of player skill. Etc., etc. They're just that much less engaging than what came before and therefore have degraded their kits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyth

I do think it's been a gradual deterioration overall. I'm more speaking to the question posed earlier on "Why wouldn't you want yourself to have more buffs? Why wouldn't you want your job to be stronger?" At the end of the day, an achievement is only as good as the effort taken to get you there. I think the decision to have tanks passively self-heal as part of commonly executed actions cheapens the experience.

---

For the most part I can agree with the sentiment expressed here, I just think the earlier comparison was not an apt one as the tanking experience in particular and the combat in general has been degraded for some time now for a multitude of reasons. Death by a thousand cuts, and this is just one more. I view the outrage over specific changes with some bemusement when they fit within the trends established by the devs for several expansions now. (I believe this is good example of little capacity for pattern recognition.)

Given the above statement, I do think that removal of self healing wouldn't improve the current tanking experience all that much as the experience they cheapen already lacks value.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhais

For the most part I can agree with the sentiment expressed here, I just think the earlier comparison was not an apt one as the tanking experience in particular and the combat in general has been degraded for some time now for a multitude of reasons. Death by a thousand cuts, and this is just one more. I view the outrage over specific changes with some bemusement when they fit within the trends established by the devs for several expansions now. (I believe this is good example of little capacity for pattern recognition.)

---

Except, again, the outrage isn't new, merely reiterated upon, just like the problems that have triggered it. And if it's to be death by a thousand cuts and we've all lost count but no we've been cut aplenty already, why wouldn't people become increasingly worried that the "thousandth" is closing in and resist that bit harder whatever changes they think degrade the experience?

These are indicative concerns, even if they might not seem vital when seen in insolation. Players can recognize that a problem has occurred before without being any less upset that it is occurring yet again, just under a vaguely new form.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Except, again, the outrage isn't new, merely reiterated upon, just like the problems that have triggered it. And if it's to be death by a thousand cuts and we've all lost count but no we've been cut aplenty already, why wouldn't people become increasingly worried that the "thousandth" is closing in and resist that bit harder whatever changes they think degrade the experience?

These are indicative concerns, even if they might not seem vital when seen in insolation. Players can recognize that a problem has occurred before without being any less upset that it is occurring yet again, just under a vaguely new form.

---

I have not suggested that people should stop voicing their concern over the direction the game is going at all though. Nothing in the two posts you quoted was discouraging anyone from complaining about the state of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhais

I have not suggested that people should stop voicing their concern over the direction the game is going at all though. Nothing in the two posts you quoted was discouraging anyone from complaining about the state of the game.

---

Calling those complaints "bemusing" reads a lot like "unreasonable".

But fair enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Calling those complaints "bemusing" reads a lot like "unreasonable".

But fair enough.

---

Nah, I try not to take that much liberty with definitions, I was going with "mild amusement" with a bit of puzzlement thrown in there. Not even directed at the content of the complaints, but more so because some posters seem genuinely surprised at some of the more recent changes when they are consistent with the direction the overall game has been moving in for years. At this point I'm just wondering what will be the next victim.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhais

Nah, I try not to take that much liberty with definitions, I was going with "mild amusement" with a bit of puzzlement thrown in there. Not even directed at the content of the complaints, but more so because some posters seem genuinely surprised at some of the more recent changes when they are consistent with the direction the overall game has been moving in for years. At this point I'm just wondering what will be the next victim.

---

I mean, who's left? Haha. Or, rather, can healers get any worse? (Probably, and likely in much the same vein as recent tank changes.) Hmm.

If I had to bet, the next victim would probably DPS, but I try not to stare that deep into the abyss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I mean, who's left? Haha. Or, rather, can healers get any worse? (Probably, and likely in much the same vein as recent tank changes.) Hmm.

If I had to bet, the next victim would probably DPS, but I try not to stare that deep into the abyss.

---

DPS isn't as obvious when it's bad unless you are using ACT so they will more than likely never be touched. The main reason these changes keep coming about is because FF14 is meant to be casual but there is a lot of player pressure to know X basics to play the game that I don't think square wants to be a thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

DPS isn't as obvious when it's bad unless you are using ACT so they will more than likely never be touched.

---

I mean, we're talking gameplay at this point. If capacity were the only talking point, no tanks would complain about getting dull (low, if any, skill ceiling) but powerful-over-time self-healing.

Quote:

---

The main reason these changes keep coming about is because FF14 is meant to be casual but there is a lot of player pressure to know X basics to play the game that I don't think square wants to be a thing.

---

To be fair, if the issue is pressure to learn X basics being overwhelming at the time new players (especially, boosted players) encounter said pressure, that makes a case for teaching those elements before sliding them into higher pressure environments, more so than removing those basics outright.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

As a sage main it I totally love it honestly, since sage is a high dps contributing shield healer, tanks pld/gnb/warrior makes my job even more fun and not stressful. Besides a pld/gnb/warrior able to solo a boss if things go down south if me and dps some how die, can finish up at least light party bosses, Dark Knight I would love if they get that same treatment sheesh aint nothing annoying that killing my entire resource on a dark night while a pld/gnb/breaker I press only 1 to 2 heals and warrior 1 to 0 heals cause of kardia + glint = stupid op xD. It use to bother me but not anymore, I seen the light how it actually is nice for tanks to have high self healing. Please SE give the dark knights some better self heal too.

---

Yes this person gets it, I stopped playing dark knight because I got tired of sitting on the brink of death every encounter. Every single group I've been in with a dark knight the healer had to go all out just to keep them alive. People always have to complain about something. Tank healing is high so they want them nerfed, dark knights have no self sustain an are hated for it lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Merc050

Tank healing is high so they want them nerfed, dark knights have no self sustain an are hated for it lol

---

Because significant imbalance and matters of gameplay preferences are the same thing?

But let's be clear: no one has argued that DRK self-sustain is too high. Some have argued that all tanks should drop nearer to PLD's level, to GNB's level, or to DRK's level, and/or that the means of that self-healing should be different. But no one has simultaneously argued that DRK's self-sustain, by extension of the broader role as if it were equal across the board, is at once too high and too low.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashua

And that sort of invalidates the healer. Honestly, the queue requiring a green role in order for the dungeon finder to click into play is the only reason a healer is required. The game was designed with the triality of modern-day MMO's and I think it is a disservice to basically invalidate a third of the players who enjoy that aspect. So now in order to get my healing jollies on I have to also be a tank? If two DPS and a tank can tackle a boss it is poor game design. Either fix it or rework the game without requiring healers to be a role.



And it's worse for healers. Tank sustainability should be the healer and not the tank. You have a 1-2-3 combo but I have a 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 combo for 99.9% of whatever I do. The bosses do more than tickle. Tanks can burst heal better than current healers is the problem. 10x for warriors but literally similar for all but the Dark Knight.

---

Honestly this pretty much sums up my issue with healers as they are right now, they're boring to play, the heals barely do anything (600 potency heals like a wet noodle) and they're kind of invalidated when you die and the boss can still be solo'd 50% to 0 because the paladin can just sustain everyone with clemency or the warrior can fight the boss for days with their self heals

They can make healing do less so we have to do more, and that's fine, but it doesn't make sense to just give tanks a ton of self-healing so they basically get to be independent when it comes to boss fights

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashua

And that sort of invalidates the healer. Honestly, the queue requiring a green role in order for the dungeon finder to click into play is the only reason a healer is required. The game was designed with the triality of modern-day MMO's and I think it is a disservice to basically invalidate a third of the players who enjoy that aspect. So now in order to get my healing jollies on I have to also be a tank? If two DPS and a tank can tackle a boss it is poor game design. Either fix it or rework the game without requiring healers to be a role.



And it's worse for healers. Tank sustainability should be the healer and not the tank. You have a 1-2-3 combo but I have a 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 combo for 99.9% of whatever I do. The bosses do more than tickle. Tanks can burst heal better than current healers is the problem. 10x for warriors but literally similar for all but the Dark Knight.

---

Who cares it makes your job as a healer easier? I love the fact that I can get koed on a mechanic on a boss I don't know and watch from the floor as the paladin and reaper solo it with me and the bard dead. One scholar and one bard dead used to mean a wipe now it means if THEY are good and know mechanics they can carry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

Who cares it makes your job as a healer easier? I love the fact that I can get koed on a mechanic on a boss I don't know and watch from the floor as the paladin and reaper solo it with me and the bard dead. One scholar and one bard dead used to mean a wipe now it means if THEY are good and know mechanics they can carry.

---

You just like to be contrary don't you? On literally EVERYTHING.