4.1 - The emptiest patch yet.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

Even if I did, there was still more compelling content in two expansions than there is here.

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Honestly, even if they went out of their way to make new and compelling content, it would die quickly because the rewards become obsolete.

You simply gain rewards too quickly in FFXIV to make things last. And because of that, you regularly need new rewards to trump the old ones. The progression model doesn't matter if the rate of progress is rapid.

That aside, in HW, they did try to make "new" types of content - PotD and Diadem. The prior is relegated to a leveling tool now that Aetherpool and Kinna weapons are old, the latter died twice, both times after the rewards got old. They're probably cooking up more, but it won't matter because 6 months after it gets released, it'll be dead.

Squeenix could even mix a few things in. Say there's one daily roulettes. We'll take expert since it's max cap. What if there's two versions?

1 for the normal content and roulettes and the other a much more savage version of the fight? Best part? Drops loot of the current ilvl of tomes, AND also grants more times. Double if necessary. It's something added as a bonus, but would incentivize (this is mostly temporary) for doing their roulette daily. This is only one pure example, but again, mostly temporary for the time being. But something added to the current already ingame features would help little things.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

That aside, in HW, they did try to make "new" types of content - PotD and Diadem. The prior is relegated to a leveling tool now that Aetherpool and Kinna weapons are old, the latter died twice, both times after the rewards got old. They're probably cooking up more, but it won't matter because 6 months after it gets released, it'll be dead.

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The issue in your argument is that the reward did not meet the expectation of the current already available ilvl.

Kinna weapons released when we had 260 shire gear already.
Similarly Padji weapons were not of the best ilvl for the current raid tier and/or content for tomes. They were also below it. In this case, 24 main raid content, not tome gear ilvl or equivalent. Made the crafting weapons much better HQ.
Allagan Tomestone of Scripture was introduced in patch 3.4.
Floor 51-100 for Kinna weapons and upgrades released 3.5.
By them they were worse than what you could have already had in a few weeks, or primals and crafted gear.

The problem with Diadem was that the gear drop rate was abysmal with rng stats, and also not of the same ilvl up to the current tomes progression gear. Also, it was a FATE system implemented. Had they changed it to something like a zone where you fight new notorious monsters that took an equal amount of effort to kill from tons of parties, similar to Ixion pre nerf, it may have been a different story. But fates is what deterred people from wanting to play it. As that's all it really was. Nobody likes fates. Leveling, I suppose. Rewards? Not really. Although the only ones I say I will defend is the Ixion fate and the Fox fate, as I loved those rewards. But outside of that, I do everything I can to never do fates again after ixion unless something better comes out. :l

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Look I understand your point of wanting some changes, But changing things up is never an easy thing especially if it over night, just look to the class changes every damn expansion, ppl freaks out for literally nothing sometimes.
The other problem is that cooking up something meaningful now it's very hard and as other have said the mentality in gaming atm is get everything now or bust and I too would like for it to be changed but that's not something that neither I nor SE can fix

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That's kind of the point of the patches. Brainstorming. Devs could also use those months and/or have some off devs or interns checking on a series of other game titles and bringing those ideas they find good or best. Now we'll be seeing less of the same stuff we're getting. Oh! But we're getting PVP stuff! But just like the feast before, now and later, it will be ignored for cheaters, and also by means of win trading. So there's that.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

More of the point is we want to see some changes in the game. And changing structure or at least adding things to that topical structure would be better is all. We who also want to see change are also tired of the argument that non placeholders feel about the game being different. We all play the same game. We just want more to add on the "what to do" list, and not so much of a "log in once and then log out till next week" type of deal.

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Look I understand your point of wanting some changes, But changing things up is never an easy thing especially if it over night, just look to the class changes every damn expansion, ppl freaks out for literally nothing sometimes.
The other problem is that cooking up something meaningful now it's very hard and as other have said the mentality in gaming atm is get everything now or bust and I too would like for it to be changed but that's not something that neither I, you or SE can fix

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

The problem with Diadem was that the gear drop rate was abysmal with rng stats, and also not of the same ilvl up to the current tomes progression gear. Also, it was a FATE system implemented. Had they changed it to something like a zone where you fight new notorious monsters that took an equal amount of effort to kill from tons of parties, similar to Ixion pre nerf, it may have been a different story. But fates is what deterred people from wanting to play it. As that's all it really was.

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This right here. People ask "where's your suggestion?" The community told the devs for YEARS that we don't like fates. Their new "innovation" was....fates. Developers say we are to critical, it's because they keep pushing crap we already told them wasn't working.

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

It's not like they just instantly flipped around and implemented the demolition timer. It took them years, and alot of that time was with players pressuring them quite heavily to do something, anything, about the lack of housing plots.

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Stop defending them. This is the reason housing is still broken in the first place. They continue to band-aid problems because people like you will sit there and defend their actions instead of speaking out. Auto-demolish was never going to be the solution and never will be.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

This right here. People ask "where's your suggestion?" The community told the devs for YEARS that we don't like fates. Their new "innovation" was....fates. Developers say we are to critical, it's because they keep pushing crap we already told them wasn't working.

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No offense but even this argument that FATE are crap is getting really dull, they are not even a great part of the game and only serve as experience option and giving some sort of life in the world so I don't really understand the hate ppl have for them execpt for the sporadic events which let's be honest are not so frequent


I still think however that what really ppl should nag SE on is the fact that it's the second time they cut a dungeon for not really that much tbh, I know dungeons aren't that interesting for some but they gave us a reason and we are hardly even on that

(granted the ultimate fight probably will be more interesting than that dungeon)

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

somethingsomethingXI

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You are still comparing apples and oranges. I get what you're saying, XIV doesn't have content with anywhere NEAR the longevity XI has, or had. It could use more, yes. And also, Diadem was positively horrid. I can't deny this, and nor should others. But if you're going to compare MMOs, you mightaswell use WoW as an example. XIV, and even WoW, are "modern" MMOs. This is the way of them. They create content, we consume content, next patch we get new content with new, relevant rewards while the past content becomes vanity-related and not so much of a numbers game. Now, the word "new" is subjective, I'm also aware of this. The game could use something genuinely new and exciting. But...it's still the way of the game. You can either accept this, or not. It's not perfect, but nothing is. It certainly has its issues which I hope, over time, will be addressed.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

This right here. People ask "where's your suggestion?" The community told the devs for YEARS that we don't like fates. Their new "innovation" was....fates. Developers say we are to critical, it's because they keep pushing crap we already told them wasn't working.

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And...some things are taking a little longer than they should to address, like this.

Looking at how much is being pushed back and shown 4.1 looks really lackluster.. 4.2 looks like its going to steal content from 4.1..

I don't think the job adjustments are going to fix anything major. Especially with some classes feeling clunky, tacked on, boring ect..

Anyway 4.2 is going to the be make it or break it patch it seems.

Much troll. and yes I read the "explaination"

I wouldn't say there's more/less in this patch than others. It's kind of what I'd expect to see. However they need to release the new deep dungeon sooner rather than later - mainly to relieve the DF queues. They miscalulated the effect of 2 additional dps, and the wait times are still far too long.

...Are there gonna be new hairstyles...? :c

I was waiting for a thread like this to show up, but i was worried it wouldn't.

I swear, these forums make me think people in this game don't care about content at all, and are happy just using it to play house and dress up.

It's hard to just do the same thing day after day, week after week.

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Originally Posted by Averax

It's hard to just do the same thing day after day, week after week.

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People tend to say this and not offer much in the way of a suggestion. That's why people say to do so. They DO listen to feedback at least sometimes, so we just need to be constructive. I agree that the tome grind, as an example, wears on people, myself included, after awhile. We could use some other side content to get some gear. You know, to change things up a bit. Ex mode accessories were a good start, they just don't seem to stick with that concept for too long. They didn't at all in HW. Last time this happened was in 2.0, and even now they're obsolete in the 3.0 Ex primal fights. Something like that on a regular basis wouldn't be a bad idea imo. They aimed for this with Diadem, and to some extent PotD...but Diadem failed, and hard. It was easy to see why. But as I said...suggestions, feedback, ANYTHING constructive would be more helpful than just saying "this sucks, that sucks, and that sucks too and we don't like it. Why? It sucks". We would all benefit if we would maybe get our facts together and tell them exactly what we want and don't want. It's impossible to please everyone regardless.

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Originally Posted by Valinis

Stop defending them. This is the reason housing is still broken in the first place. They continue to band-aid problems because people like you will sit there and defend their actions instead of speaking out. Auto-demolish was never going to be the solution and never will be.

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Cute. So the only argument you have is to deliberately twist and bend my words

I'm not saying it's a permanent solution. God knows I still take issue with the fact that FC housing and player housing has to compete with each other, and it's not exactly hard to notice that plots arent being freed up regularly enough for it to count as a permanent solution.

What I am saying is it's the best avaliable temporary solution for them without having to gutt the content for several patches forward so they can focus development on transitioning the housing system, and all avaliable houses at the moment, into a instanced format. (And that's also not counting the possible server load) And if people take this much issue with not getting, I can only assume, a new savage mode, or Eureka, I seriously dont wanna see the crying from having to wait months and months and months, and all you're getting, is a revamped housing system.

But since you went there. I dont care about the housing and I dare say the same applies to everyone else who doesnt join your little "crusade" (or atleast they dont care enough). On a player level, its 100% vanity, as it provides absolutely nothing that isnt already there in some form, so I'm not gonna work myself up into some kind of bloodrage over the development team having to include a auto demolition to ensure people cant just clogg the system by buying plots, and quitting. (And before you bring it up. Only reason I want my own is it's a fun thing to have, but if other people get them first then I dont see why I should bother throwing a tantrum. I can still enjoy litterally everything else about the game)

There's still alot I want them to do with it. Most notably prevent people from owning more then 1 plot at a time. But unlike people like you, I care about everything else first. I dont want the game to stagnate just because they promised a little more then they should've that one time because they were being conservative with how much the game could grow (and god knows back on ARR they were probably still wary of the idea that the relaunch might not even work in the long run. That the game would be going down again, and this time likely permanently)

But that's fine. Twist and break my words more why dont you. I guess it's the only way you can support your vindictive attitude instead of doing the sensible thing and quitting the game

Remember when 2.1 came with:

- 3 dungeons
- 3 extreme primal trails
- King moogle trial
- Ultima trial
- 24 man raid
- 2 beast tribes
- PvP (wolves den)
- Treasure maps
- Housing
- aesthetician

Just having 5 new trials (3 ex, Ultima, and King moogle) was already amazing.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

Remember when 2.1 came with:

- 3 dungeons
- 3 extreme primal trails
- King moogle trial
- Ultima trial
- 24 man raid
- 2 beast tribes
- PvP (wolves den)
- Treasure maps
- Housing
- aesthetician

Just having 5 new trials (3 ex, Ultima, and King moogle) was already amazing.

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I like how people use 2.1 as their trump card to win an argument, remember any other single patch after 2.1 that came even close to amount of content 2.1 had? me neither.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

Remember when 2.1 came with:

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remember when they made a horrible horrible mistake in outsourcing and rushing 1.0 and had to attempt to win back an entire playerbase with new and exciting content as quickly as possible or face losing everything they'd invested and hired an entirely new development team who likely had a guillotine over their necks untill that first year passed and the subscriptions pushed the profitability into the black? I'm pretty sure that level of hustle will not be seen again for a while and in my opinion shouldn't be. For the amount of "this NEEDS to be done" expressed by so many people they aren't willing to invest the time or money it'd take to get these things done. Time as in "no content or events for a year, but housing will be fixed, inventory and glamour logs will be resolved to everyones satisfaction, data centers will all be able to link and players can adventure together in the overworld and instances with little to no special prep.". They're doing what they can with the resources they have and most of what I see on the forums is people complaining on how it's not enough.
I attended a panel at a con where the speaker was talking about Destiny 2 before release day. Someone asked "how do you deal with people burning through all the content , what things do you have in place to keep hardcore gamers happy? ". His response: "you just kind of throw chunks of your life at this endless hole that is player demands and keep living. We can never keep up with everyone, we just have to make a quality experience for the content we are making and when we're done with that move on to the next thing.".. They are aware it's hopeless yet they keep giving us things. That deserves a little respect?

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

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2.1 is patch 2.0+1, because it was all the stuff they could not add upon 2.0's release. Stop using it as a defense.

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Originally Posted by Averax

I was waiting for a thread like this to show up, but i was worried it wouldn't.

I swear, these forums make me think people in this game don't care about content at all, and are happy just using it to play house and dress up.

It's hard to just do the same thing day after day, week after week.

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You mean you don't just play house and dress up? Boy, you sure had me fooled. For a moment I thought you were one of those players that actually played the game's relevent content, but it appears you haven't even bothered with that. Here's a tip, you'll never be happy with any content if you never do it.

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Originally Posted by MyaValentine

I like how people use 2.1 as their trump card to win an argument, remember any other single patch after 2.1 that came even close to amount of content 2.1 had? me neither.

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2.5 had a good amount of content too. A lot of 2.xx patches were not bad. I don't expect another 2.1, but we're getting less and less content per expansion. We're getting less dungeons, less trials, less beast tribes, less pretty much everything.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

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Sure if it was free, but we're paying quite a bit of money. Sure you can say just stop and don't pay, but that's the lazy solution.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

2.1 is patch 2.0+1, because it was all the stuff they could not add upon 2.0's release. Stop using it as a defense.

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Wait who am I defending. Are you thinking I'm defending SE? I'm saying we got less and less content with the patches. If you don't want to use 2.1 then use 2.5.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

Wait who am I defending. Are you thinking I'm defending SE? I'm saying we got less and less content with the patches. If you don't want to use 2.1 then use 2.5.

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Defense, counterargument, whatever term you prefer.

The only difference is we're not getting 2 dungeons, and we're getting one less trial.

The two dungeons are reused from 2.0, Amdapor Keep and Wanderer's Palace, and then the two trials haven't much replay value anyways. I guess the only argument you could make is Postmoogle quests, but those last shorter than the MSQ, which is already being shortened to something like 5-8 quests so there's not too many by the end.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Defense, counterargument, whatever term you prefer.

The only difference is we're not getting 2 dungeons, and we're getting one less trial.

The two dungeons are reused from 2.0, Amdapor Keep and Wanderer's Palace, and then the two trials haven't much replay value anyways. I guess the only argument you could make is Postmoogle quests, but those last shorter than the MSQ, which is already being shortened to something like 5-8 quests so there's not too many by the end.

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I think that if the new PvP mode and Eureka had been delivered on time, people wouldn't be as upset and concerned. It's a shame that they got pushed back, but I'm HOPING that means they learned from past mistakes like Diadem and are doing things right the first time. Time will tell, obviously. Those were both supposed to make it into 4.1, though the PvP content won't be TOO far behind...1 month, roughly. Biggest issue is Eureka. A lot of people were looking forward to that, myself included.

Time won't tell much, if Eureka is a flop people will find new excuses to defend the fact that we're getting less.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Time won't tell much, if Eureka is a flop people will find new excuses to defend the fact that we're getting less.

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Well aren't you a bundle of optimism...

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

2.5 had a good amount of content too. A lot of 2.xx patches were not bad. I don't expect another 2.1, but we're getting less and less content per expansion. We're getting less dungeons, less trials, less beast tribes, less pretty much everything.



Sure if it was free, but we're paying quite a bit of money. Sure you can say just stop and don't pay, but that's the lazy solution.

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you're paying about as much as a lunch per month + whatever initial invesment you made for the base game. I wouldn't call that a lot, subjective I guess though. What you're paying for though is server maintenance costs and all that entails: bandwidth, GMs, customer service. It isn't cheap running a multiple hundreds of thousand accounts server. Stopping paying isn't lazy and I'm sad you think it is. It's the most powerful tool you have for showing your displeasure. STOP PAYING. If you keep paying and maybe post a biting comment on the forums it gets a hell of a lot less attention than the fallout of people dropping off of recurring payments. You want 2.1 levels of attention? Recreate the crisis.

I'm very excited about the new raid and the new PVP mode. The new PVP mode looks especially elaborated.
We only do dungeons for weekly tomes, so I don't mind if they add 1, 2, or 5. I don't really do trials, they're not for everyone so I can understand they wouldn't want to add tons of them in a single patch. Instead we're getting the music system, which also takes time and development (and looks fun); the possibility to send tells and add people crossserver; and perhaps my favourite part: a change in the residential areas to allow swimming. I thought they'd just make swimming possible in the current maps, but no, they are actually changing the maps for that, which is awesome. Also the SuperExtremeSavage Coil, whatever you call it (I won't do that one). Oh, and also the squadron update, which even seems to come with new emotes.

There IS a lot of content and development invested. It's just perhaps not the kind of content some people would personally like, as SE seems to be trying to add things for everyone; more variety than they did back in 2.0, when they'd simply add more dungeons and more trials. It's simply a matter of you appreciating what we're getting, or not appreciating it at all. And I sure do.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

2.1 is patch 2.0+1, because it was all the stuff they could not add upon 2.0's release. Stop using it as a defense.

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To be fair 4.1 is partially the same way, the new pvp mode was delayed from 4.0 and guessing they intentionally delayed Shirogane housing until 4.1 so the patch looks more beefy and keeps people subscribed into 4.1

There isn't less stuff than ever, some is just deliberately splintered off to the minor patches for a more even spread but overall it's at least as much as we've always been getting....

4.1 through 4.15 is...
> Alliance raid
> Light-Party Dungeon
> Main Scenario quests
> New PvP mode and map
> New housing area and updates
> First ever Ultimate raid
> Extreme trial
> Squadron dungeon content
> Hildibrand sidequests
> Beast Tribe quests
> Perform music feature
> Custom Delivery content
> Deeper treasure map dungeon with new mechanics
> Many major UI improvements
> Cross-world friend list, tells
> Raid roulette + adjustments to Labyrinth
> and the usual job fixes, new mounts, etc

Yeah I guess the whiners are right, the dev team have just been sitting on their butts. They are barely producing the most content of any dev team in the industry any more. It's not like we are getting more raid content than any previous patch series with the addition of the Ultimate series on odd-number patches. It's not like they took the effort to create an entirely new pvp concept with piloting machina and destroying enemy towers. For these new kinds of content we lost a hard-mode dungeon which everyone was telling them we don't want any more because it's a boring hallway of trash pulls. But it's gone, therefore weakest patch ever? {/sarcasm}

It's gonna be a huge patch for the little things like... use chocobo and minion at the same time; see chocobo remaining time in party list; set status bar to multi lines to separate buff, debuff, other; new moving house service; new storeroom for furnishings; detach and salvage materia melds system added; the list goes on, it's going to be a big set of patch notes. You can go through the list of content and say that none of it interests you personally, but saying the devs are doing less work every year is a false claim. If you don't skip things you can see that there is still a lot of stuff, it's just gradually shifting to new kinds of content and breaking from the old formula.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

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Gonna remind you, like the other people, that's all coming in short term time periods. Most of that structure you mentioned? Guess what? Same stuff we got with ARR and HW. And you're defending it, which is incredibly laughable.

4.1 through 4.15 is...
> Alliance raid ----------- This was in ARR
> Light-Party Dungeon ----------- This was in ARR
> Main Scenario quests ----------- this is all of FFXIV online
> New PvP mode and map ------------- we had new pvp modes since ARR. Sad part? DEVS. DONT. PAY. ATTENTION. TO. CHEATING. Know what else we got? Win trading! Your point is invalid here. Also botting. Just FYI.
> New housing area and updates ------------ We got this in ARR.
> First ever Ultimate raid --------- We called it coil back in my day. Again, one piece of endgame raid content.
> Extreme trial ------------ also ARR content.
> Squadron dungeon content ------------- something new to HW but capitalizing. Oh, but it's less XP for doing it and older content, not newer stuff. That makes total sense. I'm gonna take my level 60-70 jobs and grind through older content 15-49/50 for LESS XP than POTD and/or relevant dungeons. Smart idea!
> Hildibrand sidequests -------------- since ARR.
> Beast Tribe quests ---------- also arr content we had.
> Perform music feature ------------ something new and interesting, but defeats 4.1, which was pushed back to 4.2 cause of packet delay. So this was thrown out for 4.1 content.
> Custom Delivery content ---------------- re-hashing already established content from HW.
> Deeper treasure map dungeon with new mechanics ---------------- This doesn't do anything if there's no current gear and/or weapons (both preferred) at the same time, and below tome level gear. Also invalid argument.
> Many major UI improvements ------------ happening and improving since ARR.
> Cross-world friend list, tells ------------- new, and should have been in the game since forever ago back in ARR. Only now being implemented.
> Raid roulette + adjustments to Labyrinth ------------ also something they should have added when raids came out. Something we'd been asking for years. And only now did they decide to do it.
> and the usual job fixes, new mounts, etc ------------ again, since ARR.

Most of what you described, has been un-compelling content. It's the same content we had since ARR. Again, the structure hasn't changed.

-New dungeons for tomes to grind at 30 tomes a run
-new primal
-new ex primal
-new 24 man raid

Out of all that, you only named two things that will be relevant. the 24 man raid at gear at or below ilvl current, and ultimate bahamut, which, if it has gear equivalent to Omega Savage right now, then we got some horizontal progression content. Squads are nice, but if i get less xp for running an instance solo, while good for down town because I can control the npc's behaviour, it's not gonna make me want to run it if it's old content. But they need guinea pigs to test it in newer dungeon content.

But, as I've learned from world of warcraft forums from someone:
"basically every MMO is about redoing the same content over and over again. Liking that or not is personal taste."

As consumers, it's fair to give feedback. As fellow human beings, perhaps it's also fair to ask to be civil when doing so? :) We won't ever all agree. That's fine and in certain ways, awesome. We all make up the FFXIV community. Raiders, GlamourPusses, Socials, Interior Decorators, and every other tag that has been given to an MMO player.

Feedback gives the devs a more rounded feel with their game stats to decide where to take the game next. It's never a bad thing when taken objectively.

It's a good foundation patch with QoL changes and adjustments to classes. Santa didn't give us everything on our wishlist; and for some of us, anything on our list. But if it benefits others in the community, it's not a bad thing?

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

Gonna remind you, like the other people, that's all coming in short term time periods. Most of that structure you mentioned? Guess what? Same stuff we got with ARR and HW. And you're defending it, which is incredibly laughable.

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What's laughable is this, mostly because they told everyone in advance...months and months before SB even, that they were sticking to the same formula (mostly). And..you're still here. Just because the formula hasn't changed much, doesn't mean we aren't getting new content. New content = content that has just released and relevant. A few things did get pushed back though, so we'll have to see how that pans out. While it might not be relevant to YOU, it's relevant to others. You seem unhappy with any content in the game period, so...yeah, they're never going to please you.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

Gonna remind you, like the other people, that's all coming in short term time periods. Most of that structure you mentioned? Guess what? Same stuff we got with ARR and HW. And you're defending it, which is incredibly laughable.

[...]

But, as I've learned from world of warcraft forums from someone:
"basically every MMO is about redoing the same content over and over again. Liking that or not is personal taste."

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I liked all of the stuff we got in ARR and HW. So I have no objections to getting more of the same. At all. I'll continue to enjoy it, because it's exactly to my taste. Clearly it's not to yours, though. I'm sorry for that. But that doesn't automatically mean it's bad. Maybe, according to your quote at the end, MMOs are, ultimately, just not the type of game for you.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

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I tried to prevent that kind of reply with my line "You can go through the list of content and say that none of it interests you personally, but saying the devs are doing less work every year is a false claim." Was only trying to make a point that there is a lot of content. Good or bad is subjective and they will never please everybody. It's easy to run down the whole list and say bad, bad, bad, bad. You called the new content invalid but... anything would be with your criteria. You said the new pvp mode doesn't count as new because it can be categorised as pvp and we've had pvp before. I mean, yeah, and it's an mmorpg so things will involve battling and characters and such, they aren't going to suddenly flip it into something completely different like a flight simulator.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

It's gonna be a huge patch for the little things like...

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There is probably enough for me in this patch as I have been playing a few other games. But, I think the quoted text is the main issue people have. Too many little things that help make the bullet points like yours a little bit longer. People want content that is going to last long enough through the next patch cycle. This is where Eureka/relic could have helped tremendously as it is usually a grind. So I do understand people's frustration. The little things like Bard's perform, squads, and UI improvements should of taken a back seat or slowly worked on after actual core content like Eureka or the 2nd Deep Dungeon. And let's be real, housing is not content that everyone gets to experience. It has and is always going to be for a very select few who are lucky enough to be the first to log on when the patch is live on Oct. 10th. After that first 10 minute window, you're outta luck.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

To be fair 4.1 is partially the same way, the new pvp mode was delayed from 4.0 and guessing they intentionally delayed Shirogane housing until 4.1 so the patch looks more beefy and keeps people subscribed into 4.1

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Keyword: Partially

People are sitting here saying it's empty...

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

What's laughable is this, mostly because they told everyone in advance...months and months before SB even, that they were sticking to the same formula (mostly). And..you're still here.

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Wouldn't have even bothered to say anything had they at LEAST shown us Eureka, even with the push back to advise us what we can expect. Yes, I'm aware that some of that content or that there had been interviews that they will be deciding to stay with a consistent formula. But, as I've learned from world of warcraft forums from someone: "basically every MMO is about redoing the same content over and over again. Liking that or not is personal taste". But hey, I guess having many people quit the game, not keeping people and bringing in new people and those people becoming veterans to run into the same issue and also quitting, repeating the cycle must be okay for you.

I think the main issue is that they had to delay Eureka, which means we'll get very little battle content. Disregarding Unending Coil, we're looking at three new PvE duties (four, if we count the new secret rooms in Uznair, but that's heavily dependant on RNG), and you can't argue that's not a lot. You also have to take in consideration that only two of those are totally new.

For me, I'll always take quality over quantity, so if the new duties ooze of developer creativity and are engaging and fun and not just the same old formula, I won't complain. Return to Ivalice has so much potential, so I hope they try to step out of the box and are not afraid to experiment with it. I saw a swimming scene in the trailer, which gives me a small glimmer of hope.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

You said the new pvp mode doesn't count as new because it can be categorised as pvp and we've had pvp before.

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You know how much win trading and botting is making pvp happen? Do you know how many different forums are out there right now with issues of people win trading and cheating, and yet since BEFORE the feast, the pvp content has had that same consistent issue that squeenix hasn't addressed? Know how fast that's going to die out? If you give content, and aren't bothering to listening to the feedback of the community, you're just feeding the flame, and not helping to cast out the fire.