#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by GreenLeafy

300+ pages and there's still the discussion if healing/sustain for something like a WAR is overtuned when this exists :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFcZCEny4x4

A trinity system game has a single tank clear content designed for 8 people in the latest expansion. The balance across the board is out of whack and this speaks for itself. Healers are tip of the iceberg.

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WAR can solo lower level treasure dungeons as well, since Raw Intuition is enough.

I fully support the cause, but I don't think I ever mentioned how I see the solution to the problem. Nothing new, since many here told those things already, but for the sake of adding feedback. In case developers watching. Just the opinion of a player who raided as a Healer in HW, StB, and EW. I place my points in order on how quickly these things can be done, but I expect all of them to be applied in one way or the other.

1. Bring back DPS buttons. For me, the optimal level of buttons would be HW or about the current Tank level. You optimize healing in high-end content with one goal in mind - to have more time DPSing. This is especially true in week-1 clears, where the difference between a clear or not is Healer damage. So, if my ultimate goal is contributing to the damage, I want it to be interactive and not mind-numbing 2-1-1-1-1 spam.

2. Rework WAR. I don't mind much that other jobs contribute to healing and mitigation, this allows some of them to lean into more supportive roles for the group, and that is okay. But current WAR is the worst offender, the way their healing is overtuned. Previously, being able to solo things as WAR was a level of skill expression, nowadays anyone with at least one working brain cell can do that. "Warrior is great at healing" is an oxymoron in itself. If anything, only PLD's job fantasy supports the "healing tank" design. "Too angry to die" can mean anything, it doesn't have to be "I can heal back to full button ready every 30 seconds". Make increased dmg reduction or healing received relative to current health, defensive stacks per each Fell Cleave used, etc. But current WAR healing has to go.

3. Change the approach to encounter design. This is probably the most unlikely thing to happen and doesn't do much on its own, considering the years of content we had prior. Fights need to be less scripted, and more interesting, we need to move from the raidwide-chariot-dynamo-stack-spread-raidwide-body check formula into something else. Back in HW devs tried to experiment with mechanics, creating new unique fights with interesting gimmicks. Hell, you don't even need to change damage profiles, if you can create fun interactive mechanics, that are engaging for every role to interact. Of course, such a level of change would probably require a completely new team of designers with fresh ideas in mind.

Anyways, this is what I have in mind for the Healer role changes. I won't be playing Healers in DT, will level them up last, using Trusts, Tribe quests, books, PvP, etc. Still hope to hear some feedback from developers regarding healers specifically.

I'm so confused by people who say "go play something else then". That is exactly what the strike is intending to do. Healers who are striking will be playing other roles. But there is no point in them doing it silently if they wish for the healing role to be improved. It's important to put your voice towards the change that you want to see in a positive, constructive way (which is mostly what these threads are doing). That is literally the entire point of the strike. I'm not sure how that is difficult to understand.

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Originally Posted by RaineFlynn

I'm so confused by people who say "go play something else then". That is exactly what the strike is intending to do. Healers who are striking will be playing other roles. But there is no point in them doing it silently if they wish for the healing role to be improved. It's important to put your voice towards the change that you want to see in a positive, constructive way (which is mostly what these threads are doing). That is literally the entire point of the strike. I'm not sure how that is difficult to understand.

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People say that SE have ignored feedback for years.
But during those years, did they still play a healer regardless?
If so, maybe SE felt that Healers are still in an OK place and said Feedbacks aren't as critical.
However.. What if people left feedback and stopped playing healers at the same time.
Then SE would see that the numbers of active healers are dropping while feedback is pouring in.
Maybe then a Strike wouldn't be needed.
Because as things are right now, take away the word Strike it's just people switching to more fulfilling jobs while listing feedbacks (demands).

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

People say that SE have ignored feedback for years.
But during those years, did they still play a healer regardless?
If so, maybe SE felt that Healers are still in an OK place and said Feedbacks aren't as critical.
However.. What if people left feedback and stopped playing healers at the same time.
Then SE would see that the numbers of active healers are dropping while feedback is pouring in.
Maybe then a Strike wouldn't be needed.

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Because we have (probably foolishly) believed that square would act in good faith when they constantly tell us to go on the forum and ask for feedback and because some of us have experienced the reverse (ie the “why should we care about your feedback if you don’t play healer anymore”)

We’ve been proverbially boxed into a corner here, every decision we make is the “wrong” one

What’s the feedback from the Japanese side of the forums? I can only see a 10 page thread commenting about the English strike thread… is there much else in regards to this and if that is their view of it all. Then it means that the issue mainly exists with the English playerbase which are widely ignore feedback wise lol, this will be interesting :)

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Because we have (probably foolishly) believed that square would act in good faith when they constantly tell us to go on the forum and ask for feedback and because some of us have experienced the reverse (ie the “why should we care about your feedback if you don’t play healer anymore”)

We’ve been proverbially boxed into a corner here, every decision we make is the “wrong” one

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I don't think I have to say that Feedback are never for certain that it'll get adressed even if heard.
That being said tho.. If people list feedback but still play it might just give the impression that things aren't as bad as people make it out for.
It's not unheard of that people can make things sound worse than they really are.
And are the population numbers still steady then why put in extra work if things are still going well?

If people truly are unhappy, give feedback and show it by playing something else that's more fun.
Then numbers will show that something actually isn't right and the feedback might hold more points than fiction.

Just a thought I got.


I noticed I pretty much just repeated what I said before.
Guess I didn't have much else to say regarding this thought I had. ^^'

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

What’s the feedback from the Japanese side of the forums? I can only see a 10 page thread commenting about the English strike thread… is there much else in regards to this and if that is their view of it all. Then it means that the issue mainly exists with the English playerbase which are widely ignore feedback wise lol, this will be interesting :)

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What I understood from someone visiting this thread from JP, was that JP players say that SE only listens to EN.
So we seem to have different viewpoints regarding which side SE listens to.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

People say that SE have ignored feedback for years.
But during those years, did they still play a healer regardless?
If so, maybe SE felt that Healers are still in an OK place and said Feedbacks aren't as critical.
However.. What if people left feedback and stopped playing healers at the same time.
Then SE would see that the numbers of active healers are dropping while feedback is pouring in.
Maybe then a Strike wouldn't be needed.
Because as things are right now, take away the word Strike it's just people switching to more fulfilling jobs while listing feedbacks (demands).

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I'm not sure what this response is trying to say or add? That healers should have quit earlier? That it's their fault for not having done so? That they shouldn't be using the word strike?

Players had faith that if they voiced their concerns then change would come and were happy to wait for it. The improvements never came and so they are acting accordingly. Hindsight is great but we can only act with the information we have now, and sadly that information is that healers don't trust that things are going to change for them for the better.

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Originally Posted by Shiune

So the Heal Role wants to dps by adding more button bloat that will have an effect to players on a controller that already have alot to press, interesting :3
I don't recall Heal based characters throughout the FF series having alot of options to dealing damage apart from Holy and uniqueness like Rosa's status arrows in IV.

Healer: I want to dps but I also want warrior reworked to so it self heals less which means I need to heal but idk how to because I want to 2-1-1-1 :'( How dare other Jobs have fun with self heals.
Tank: Me protecc, dw i got myself covered :3 stronk independent tank needs no healer.

The Fix, give you a combo cast that ends with some unique effect , WHM causing a aoe healing pulse or something around the mob, or Ofc make all the 'Story' content tuned so people take way more damage, then It's all up to the healer to deal with it <3
then complain when you have to heal.

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https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88...gDMK59IFHod_T0

Just a reminder SE themselves tells people to come to forums to leave feedback and suggestions.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...ality=lossless

Just to add to my comment of uselessness do healer LB 1/2 and exclusion of all healer LB from fight design and add a bit of a suggestion :

It could be solved by adding esunas of debuff protection effect : LB1/2/3 cleanse or protect 5/10/15 (removable) debuffs ; then implementing that in some fights.

It's in no way good as it's just "do or die", but it's pretty much what all "fight design requiring LB" are

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

What’s the feedback from the Japanese side of the forums? I can only see a 10 page thread commenting about the English strike thread… is there much else in regards to this and if that is their view of it all. Then it means that the issue mainly exists with the English playerbase which are widely ignore feedback wise lol, this will be interesting :)

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Some excerpts from the Japanese forum:

フィードバックは常に無視されてきたので黄金のレガシーでヒーラーに手が加えられることはない。初めてFF14でヒーラーをメインにプレイしない拡張パックになる
[Feedback has always been ignored, so healers will never be touched in Golden Legacy[Dawn Trail]. This is the first expansion pack for FF14 that doesn't focus on healers.]

この意見を支持するけど、これまでの方針を考えるとヒーラーに意味のある変更が加えられるのかわからない
[I support this opinion, but I'm not sure there will be any meaningful changes to healers given the current policy.]

ストライキをしているヒーラーのほとんどは絶をクリアしてないのではないか。高難易度ではヒーラーの役割はより重要になっている
[I think most of the healers who are on strike haven't cleared Zetsu [Ultimate]. The role of the healer becomes more important at higher difficulty levels.]

私はこれまでプレイしたほぼすべてのMMOでヒーラーとサポートをメインにしてきたが、FF14のヒーラーはおそらくその中で最悪の体験だ
I've been a healer/support main character in almost every MMO I've played, but FF14's healer experience is probably the worst of them all.

日本のフォーラムがこの意見に賛同しない限り、大きな変化は起こらないだろう
[No major changes will occur unless the Japanese forum agrees with this opinion.]

ヒーラーが失った過去の魔法を返してもらいたいです。紅蓮のリベレーターの頃からプレイしているが、白魔道士に範囲エアロがあったのを覚えている
[I want the healer to return the lost magic of the past. I've been playing since Crimson Liberator [Stormblood], and I remember White Mage having range aero.]

攻撃アビリティを増やし、GCD回復魔法にもっと重点を置いてください
[Increase attack abilities and put more emphasis on GCD recovery magic]


バランスについては気を使いすぎず、ジョブを楽しくすることだけに集中すべきだと思う
[I think you should not worry too much about balance and just focus on making the job fun.]

ヒーラーがいるだけで常にパーティ全体に30%のダメージ増加バフを付与できるというのはどう？
[How about being able to always give a 30% damage increase buff to the entire party just by having a healer?]

少なくとも放置型ガチャゲームよりは忙しい戦闘にしてほしい
[At least I want the battles to be more busy than idle gacha games.]

FF11の白魔道士は純粋なサポート/ヒーラーのジョブだった。白魔道士がすることは回復だけだったが、FF11はそれを中心に設計されていた。FF14では岩や光の玉を投げるだけ。このゲームは回復を中心に設計されていない
[White Mage in FF11 was a pure support/healer job. All White Mage did was heal, and FF11 was designed around that. In FF14, you just throw rocks and balls of light. This game is not designed around recovery[healing]]

昔は「難しすぎる」という声であふれていた。スクエニはプレイヤーのストレスを減らすようにしただけだ。今の状況は開発がプレイヤーの声を聴いた結果だと思っている
[In the past, there were many voices saying that it was "too difficult." Square Enix just tried to make it less stressful for players. I think the current situation is the result of the development team listening to the voices of players.]


Thank you AI for translation xD

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Originally Posted by RaineFlynn

I'm not sure what this response is trying to say or add? That healers should have quit earlier? That it's their fault for not having done so? That they shouldn't be using the word strike?

Players had faith that if they voiced their concerns then change would come and were happy to wait for it. The improvements never came and so they are acting accordingly. Hindsight is great but we can only act with the information we have now, and sadly that information is that healers don't trust that things are going to change for them for the better.

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Simply put, if someone complains over something yet still uses that "product".
When there's a lot of different options available.
Does it appear as that person is really displeased and wants for it to change?

I'm not pointing a finger and saying that "it's your fault".
But maybe there's been mixed signals all this time since maybe the number of active healers never really gave a hint that something might really be off.

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Originally Posted by Shiune

So the Heal Role wants to dps by adding more button bloat that will have an effect to players on a controller that already have alot to press, interesting :3
I don't recall Heal based characters throughout the FF series having alot of options to dealing damage apart from Holy and uniqueness like Rosa's status arrows in IV.

Healer: I want to dps but I also want warrior reworked to so it self heals less which means I need to heal but idk how to because I want to 2-1-1-1 :'( How dare other Jobs have fun with self heals.
Tank: Me protecc, dw i got myself covered :3 stronk independent tank needs no healer.

The Fix, give you a combo cast that ends with some unique effect , WHM causing a aoe healing pulse or something around the mob, or Ofc make all the 'Story' content tuned so people take way more damage, then It's all up to the healer to deal with it <3
then complain when you have to heal.

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We'd like to either have our healing skills be necessary, engaging and frequently used or have some of them replaced with dps skills. A role should not be expected to press one button for over 50% of the fight during all content up to and including Savage.
We do not want to reduce the utility of other classes as long as their utility is not eroding our role in the party. The game must be balanced to required both, and if that cannot be done then the healer role should be the one to heal.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Simply put, if someone complains over something yet still uses that "product".
When there's a lot of different options available.
Does it appear as that person is really displeased and wants for it to change?

I'm not pointing a finger and saying that "it's your fault".
But maybe there's been mixed signals all this time since maybe the number of active healers never really gave a hint that something might really be off.

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In the same vein there is there is the concept of stasis amongst customers like the laws of motion.

Customers will put up with quite a lot in their desire to not change but once you push them far enough they do change it’s incredibly hard to bring them back. Much harder than holding onto them by responding to them when they weren’t moving

In this way the people still sticking with healers but who are unhappy are more “useful” customers than those who’ve already abandoned healers because those still here who are unhappy have a lower threshold to be satisfied than those who already left

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Originally Posted by Len_

You can't even leave the dungeon. I think that's a huge problem that you can literally be held captive by a griefer tank. The devs should definitely let you leave even if you're dead.

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It has happened to me multiple times that the tank tried to solo the boss, took 10 minutes and then...dropped dead with the boss at 2%. So much wasted time just because some schmuck wanted to play god.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Simply put, if someone complains over something yet still uses that "product".
When there's a lot of different options available.
Does it appear as that person is really displeased and wants for it to change?

I'm not pointing a finger and saying that "it's your fault".
But maybe there's been mixed signals all this time since maybe the number of active healers never really gave a hint that something might really be off.

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Thank you for clarifying and you may be right. If so, it just shows the the strike is required. Be it named a strike or not.

Personally, right now I am on a tipping point. My plan already was to try out Pictomancer as my first job and then level my healers. I will be closely watching the battles of DawnTrail and the responses that healers have to the new kits and if it does not look like there has been any improvements then I think I will officially join the strike. I am lucky that my initial plans support the strike from the sidelines so I have time to observe and make my decision but I will still be paying attention, weighing in my voice and showing support.

It's really impressive how entitled people are.
Coming to combat a post that 100s if not 1000s of people agree with then complaining about getting pushback. This isn't a small group chat this is a public forum.

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Originally Posted by Bole

Minor feedback to this, I think a better example of homogenization is just how similar SCH and SGE are. They go so far as to copy aetherflow and add analogs to other SCH abilities.

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It's kind of awkward how tacked on Kardia feels to make it "unique" compared to SGE when in reality all it is is a glorified HoT that's restricted to a single player.

I appreciate their capstone ability in DT at least plays off of it a little further by extending the heals to the entire party, but I feel like they could've gone even harder on making it a defining gimmick for them.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

It's really impressive how entitled people are.
Coming to combat a post that 100s if not 1000s of people agree with then complaining about getting pushback. This isn't a small group chat this is a public forum.

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100% in agreement with this post. Reminded me of this meme:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9GELTGXcAAfsJm.jpg

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

It's kind of awkward how tacked on Kardia feels to make it "unique" compared to SGE when in reality all it is is a glorified HoT that's restricted to a single player.

I appreciate their capstone ability in DT at least plays off of it a little further by extending the heals to the entire party, but I feel like they could've gone even harder on making it a defining gimmick for them.

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Philosophia doesn’t even interact with kardia

It just gives everyone a seperate buff that procs off ANY spell (yes including diagnosis)

The person with kardia will get both buffs and soteria can’t buff the philosophia buff

It is miserable when the healer is inexperienced/unable to keep up with incoming damage and the party damage is low enough to struggle with small pulls (stone vigil etc). I don’t think outright removing tank sustain would make the game more fun overall. At the same time, tanks that miraculously cannot hold aggro are/were easy enough to deal with through healtanking, admittedly made more inconvenient by the hot aggro changes.

I think to keep in line with the “frictionless” interactions, the easiest solution is a medium length (15/18/21s) dot and another irregularly pressed button. After that, looking at the healing kits and consolidating the superfluous things - seraphism (why is this not a trait reducing et recast under dissipation), fey blessing (why does this cost no gauge and function as indom2), seraph (rouse/indom stacks or w/e) etc might be the next obvious step. Warrior is fun to heal on because of the limitations not despite them.

Maybe somewhat tighter ilvl syncs.
Make double tank autos in content with 2 tanks the norm, rather than the exception. Second tank does not need to be just a blue dps.
Maybe make autos a separate entity, because of how game works, when enemies start casting anything they stop doing autos alltogether.

Like take for example P3N where all of these are in effect, and P3N on release actually chunked tanks for a non trivial amount of hp with tank autos.

Also maybe add more things that needs to be cleansed. Like you do not have to add Dooms everywhere, but something to that effect. Like TG Cid adds 4 cleansable vuln stacks before doing a tank buster.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

It is miserable when the healer is inexperienced/unable to keep up with incoming damage and the party damage is low enough to struggle with small pulls (stone vigil etc). I don’t think outright removing tank sustain would make the game more fun overall. At the same time, tanks that miraculously cannot hold aggro are/were easy enough to deal with through healtanking, admittedly made more inconvenient by the hot aggro changes.

I think to keep in line with the “frictionless” interactions, the easiest solution is a medium length (15/18/21s) dot and another irregularly pressed button. After that, looking at the healing kits and consolidating the superfluous things - seraphism (why is this not a trait reducing et recast under dissipation), fey blessing (why does this cost no gauge and function as indom2), seraph (rouse/indom stacks or w/e) etc might be the next obvious step. Warrior is fun to heal on because of the limitations not despite them.

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This doesn't address the issue that we aren't allowed to really do the job of HEALING, It shouldn't be dpsing 90% of the time and healing 10% of the time or less. It should be healing 80-90% of the time and dpsing the rest of the time.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

It is miserable when the healer is inexperienced/unable to keep up with incoming damage and the party damage is low enough to struggle with small pulls (stone vigil etc). I don’t think outright removing tank sustain would make the game more fun overall. At the same time, tanks that miraculously cannot hold aggro are/were easy enough to deal with through healtanking, admittedly made more inconvenient by the hot aggro changes.

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Outside of maybe a vanishingly small subset, people have not asked to remove all selfheals from tanks. The point made about heals from tanks is that in no circumstance they should come close (or even overshadow, like with bloodwhetting against multiple enemies) heals from healers, and that tanks should not get enough self and teamheals to take over the whole healer role in easier content at higher levels. I am sure most healers will agree that tank doing small pulls and using their defenses and selfheals properly, should be easy to keep alive for even the laziest new healer. And if tanks really need some additional selfheals to completely selfheal such situations, those do not need to be ogcd/inherent selfheals or strong enough to do the biggest dungeon pulls in the game.

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Originally Posted by BunnyQueen

This doesn't address the issue that we aren't allowed to really do the job of HEALING, It shouldn't be dpsing 90% of the time and healing 10% of the time or less. It should be healing 80-90% of the time and dpsing the rest of the time.

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Oh you were replying to me.

The game’s fight design is completely incompatible with that. 2.5s gcd isn’t fast paced, the net code hardly allows for reactivity and fights have been designed as a single hard hit then a whole lot of nothing for the best part of a decade. Going back through all of that and changing it to fit a high healing uptime is an absurd amount of work.

Say there’s a boss who lives in a poison swamp, while in combat in the arena there’s a goldbile/thousand maws floor effect with a reasonable dot. How long do you think the fight would have to last before healers couldn’t passively deal with it? How many wipes do you think you’d see where the below average healers wall the other 6 people’s progress on what average or good healers find trivial?

For aiqa:
M80 the literal first bullet on the first post’s manifesto is about sustain not belonging on other jobs. I would also like to know how well sb drk would cope with the mt gulg pulls.

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Originally Posted by BunnyQueen

This doesn't address the issue that we aren't allowed to really do the job of HEALING, It shouldn't be dpsing 90% of the time and healing 10% of the time or less. It should be healing 80-90% of the time and dpsing the rest of the time.

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I think we do need to bear in mind the skill gap between players and aim for a starting range of 50/50 healing vs dps at casual content, with more healing required as you go up in content difficulty. Currently I feel you only really hit that 50/50 mark when you reach Ultimate content. Casual content at the moment sits at 10/90 healing vs damage, with that 90 being the spamming of one button. We will always have healing down time and some more dps skills would feel good.
Utility on tanks and other roles is still fine as long as the 50/50 balance on the healing role is maintained.

To further my point about healers having more dps buttons - Healers also have content they complete solo - world map content, leve's, fates, solo instances etc. It would be nice to have more skills to use in these also. Especially for the final solo instance of Endwalker. Without spoiling, anyone who knows the poignancy of this fight will know how silly and sad it is to complete that fight while spamming 211111111 while other roles get to have a really cool fight with lots of skills.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

Outside of maybe a vanishingly small subset of players, people have not asked to remove all selfheals from tanks. The point made about heals from tanks is that in no circumstance they should come close (over even overshadow, like with bloodwhetting against multiple enemies) heals from healers, and that tanks should not get enough self and teamheals to take over the whole healer role in easier content at higher levels. I am sure most healers will agree that tank doing small pulls and using their defenses and selfheals properly, should be easy to keep alive for ever the laziest new healer. And if tanks really need some additional selfheals to completely selfheal such situations, those do not need to be ogcd/inherent selfheals or strong enough to do the biggest dungeon pulls in the game.

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Clemency is a great example here because that ability is completely fine to be on paladin. It undoubtably is a powerful ability in a clutch scenario but it doesnt read 'here have benediction on a 25s cooldown'.

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Originally Posted by Bole

Minor feedback to this, I think a better example of homogenization is just how similar SCH and SGE are. They go so far as to copy aetherflow and add analogs to other SCH abilities.

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White Mage and Astrologian literately overlap every just about every skill involving healing. Back when AST could do shields, they either overlapped 100 percent with White mage or 100 percent with Scholar. It made them far more useful to balance out having one healer do heals and one doing shields. Then they decided AST wasn't white mage enough and took AST's shields away, leaving regen, making them play exactly the same as white mage. Hence AST is basically "weaker white mage with a card buff mechanic" instead of "Astral (regen)/Umbral(shield)" Maybe if the developers put more thought into it they would have realized this. With removing Selene from Scholar, that also nerfed Scholar's ability to be "Heal/Shield" or "Buff/Shield"

Like if I were to suggest a "rework" of just the healer role, I would make sure that there isn't a single "exactly the same" skill between them. This is only one suggestion

WHM - Pure Heals, all oGCD casts. Regen is automatically applied by proc. Only Dia and Holy is on GCD. "Stone" is oGCD that recast time goes up with more players in the party.

SCH - Pure Shields, all oGCD casts. The scholar gets three faries (EOS, Selene and Seraph) with EOS casting healing automatically, Selene casting Regen automatically, and Seraph casting both at half potency. The Scholar themselves cast only DoT's, Debuffs or Buffs (eg shields), all the healing is done by the fairy.

AST - Half shields, half Heals. Have the Astrologian select the "Astral" or "Umbral" deck, with one being regen, the other being shield. Remove "Benefic and Benefic 2" entirely and replace with GCD Aspected Benefic, and GCD Aspected Helios like how they originally worked. Same as WHM, Combust as Gravity are GCD but Malefic is oGCD that recast increases with more players in the party.

SGE - All "DPS" actions are GCD that redirect damage into health to the party (eg an 8 member party gets 12.5% each). Remove Diagnosis and Prognosis as GCD equivalents to Cure/Benefic and Medica/Helios.


Then to fix the tanks, do exactly the same to the self-heals. All oGCD, recast increases with more players in party. DPS self-heals are oGCD recasts that increase with more players in the party. Summoner and Red mage heals and revives have longer recasts with more players in the party. Do the same for potion recasts.

The idea being "not doing your role" is penalized in time the more players there are.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Clemency is a great example here because that ability is completely fine to be on paladin. It undoubtably is a powerful ability in a clutch scenario but it doesnt read 'here have benediction on a 25s cooldown'.

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It also fits with PLDs job theme. I'm confused why WAR heals itself. If anything their job reads as more of a berserker role where they should be enraged and deal extra dps but at the cost of something else - like taking more damage, or being locked into completing their fell cleave combo while being unable to disengage or move away from the boss. (I can see why the latter is NOT a thing, especially as they had to remove animation movement lock from dragoon jumps, but it would make MORE sense than self healing.)

What baffles me the most is the current copy paste aspect of healer's spammable actions. The scope of a healer's DT 'immediate' dps kits, the actions you'd be pressing the most, at least 60s recast times.

Glare + Dia + Assize
Broil + Biolysis + Energy Drain
Malefic + Combust + Earthly Star + Dps card (*I didn't count Lord since technically it's only available every 2 minutes)
Dosis + E. Dosis + Phlegma + E. Dyskrasia (*maybe? If it turns out to be a gain in DT's final build)

Even if this amount was somehow (not that I'd agree) a good compromise, it doesn't have a reason for it to be almost the SAME across healers. Is this '1.5 cast nuke + 30s dot' just laziness?

Why a healer can't have a spell combo system instead of a dot to manage?
Why a healer can't have just very short lived dots to maintain instead of a spammable nuke?
Why Astrologian can't have Combust being a single target 'time bomb' that blows up for more damage if caught by Earthly Star?
Why can't a healer have a nuke with the old long cast time?

You'd have to fundamentally change how terribly over designed dungeons are for there to be any meaningful change and even then all it would be is increased incoming damage so you're forced to heal more and dps less and people would start screaming for it to be back to normal again. People started this problem, and people will complain until it goes back to the way it is where healers aren't necessary. You started this garbage learn to like the taste of it.

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Originally Posted by RaineFlynn

It also fits with PLDs job theme. I'm confused why WAR heals itself. If anything their job reads as more of a berserker role where they should be enraged and deal extra dps but at the cost of something else - like taking more damage, or being locked into completing their fell cleave combo while being unable to disengage or move away from the boss. (I can see why the latter is NOT a thing, especially as they had to remove animation movement lock from dragoon jumps, but it would make MORE sense than self healing.)

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Lifesteal is fine, it’s always been a part of ff14 warrior. The quests went on about them being able to fight forever as long as they had an opponent iirc. I think thematically nascent is meant to be like awakening the warrior beast thing in whoever it’s pointed at, even if it’s a bit silly. Shake it off should lose at least one if not two of shield, hot, flat heal. While thematically it’s reasonable on its face, it’s just way too strong and covering too many bases. Raw intuition and nascent being mutually exclusive was healthier too I think, leaning back into the hw theming. It’s also silly to have a flat potency, instead of 1/2 damage dealt or whatever scale factor you want. I’d also like it if they gave big hp low mit another shot, now that the devs are in n a more similar page to the players instead of presenting t5 and being surprised people don’t want to chain res it.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

Lifesteal is fine, it’s always been a part of ff14 warrior. The quests went on about them being able to fight forever as long as they had an opponent iirc. I think thematically nascent is meant to be like awakening the warrior beast thing in whoever it’s pointed at, even if it’s a bit silly. Shake it off should lose at least one if not two of shield, hot, flat heal. While thematically it’s reasonable on its face, it’s just way too strong and covering too many bases. Raw intuition and nascent being mutually exclusive was healthier too I think, leaning back into the hw theming. It’s also silly to have a flat potency, instead of 1/2 damage dealt or whatever scale factor you want. I’d also like it if they gave big hp low mit another shot, now that the devs are in n a more similar page to the players instead of presenting t5 and being surprised people don’t want to chain res it.

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Thank you for clarifying the lore context for warriors heals. I have levelled warrior but I've forgotten it since ARR days.

Self healing is one thing but warrior healing others doesnt really make sense. I feel like that's simply a case of job homogenization. One tank's short cd mit was throwable so now they all have to be. The end result of that is that functionally no tank is allowed to have an advantage over SE's clearly most favored tank.

For Me there are two main issues with the healer state:

1. Healer kits are over bloated with healing tools and are largely unnecessary while having a dps kit too shallow to be engaging at all.

2. Non healer self sustain is too high that it starts to invalidate healers in content.


I would say issue 2. Is what devs should focus on as it will also impact issue 1 at same time.



Tanks should return to Stormblood levels of mitigation and self sustain but damage output of content should stay as it currently is or higher. This change would force healers to flip between both healing and dps sides of their kit more often, yes the kit still be shallow but flipping between the two more often is healthier than 90% on one side that it currently is.

Stuff like War’s bloodwhetting either removed or limited on how much it can heal significantly, tanks should not be able to survive big pulls with no interaction from a healer

The passive increase of defense tanks have gotten from tank stance, remove it, they have mitigation tools for a reason don’t give them a passive that is equal to or better than them, tanks be able to tank just fine but it would require better team effort with their healer and dps to pull wall to wall.

For Dps any bonus healing to other party members drastically reduced, they ain’t healers they are dps so make them act like it more(see people who say why don’t you healers play dps if wanna dps can work the other way too), stuff like vercure potency is at most 5% hp of target (panic heal at best useless to maintain hp pools between raid wides), curing waltz only affects Dnc+dance partner, improv no longer shields or regens pick one, PCT loses that AoE shield, Phoenix loses its regen (lore be damned the devs stopped caring about job lore ages ago couch ShB Ast cough), Rpr’s shield either remove trait that makes it AoE regen if breaks or make it purely on Rpr only, PCT’s burst heal remove it from the skill they ain’t a healer why do they have such a potent heal.


Make healers have to balance both sides of their kit better then look at improving both sides of the healer’s kit. Right now non healers are a bigger threat to the usefulness of healer’s healing toolkit than the healers kit themselves.

Is it me or some people don't get it?

1. Healer gameplay should be engaging in all sorts of content. From brain dead dungeons to high end raids. Engaging = either more heals, or DPS, or something else. It doesn't really matter. What matter is the fun factor while doing it and doing something actually interesting gameplay-wise.

2. SE will NOT I change the whole battle system, nor will make older content fights require much healing. Hence healer will need to DPS. The question then is: if we need to DPS, why does it have to be one button mashing? If we have to DPS at least make it interesting and synergise with the healing kit.

3. Healer identity is a problem. To the point you can almost make a 1:1 comparison of skill between SGE/SCH for example.

4. The other jobs being able to do all what healer do, like WAR being able to self-sustain to the point healers are not needed, is not how it should be. What's the point of the healer if your tank can survive it without it? "DPS instead" - go back to point 2.

Now that my daily post limit is back, I've finally figured out how to make healers engaging without nerfing WAR sustain,

they have all the tools anyway, just actually make them a green role with some minor tweaks. People have been asking for a melee healer after all.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

M80 the literal first bullet on the first post’s manifesto is about sustain not belonging on other jobs. I would also like to know how well sb drk would cope with the mt gulg pulls.

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That is not a black/white point. That bulletpoint claims heals being given to other roles becomes a problem when it encroaches on the healer role. That doesn't mean all heals should be removed from other roles. And that point doesn't claim all jobs have encroached on the healer roles. I don't see why I'd have to defend DRK performance before supporting a claim that the healer role is being encroached on. DRK isn't the only job in the game, and is not the job that I (or any other people I've seen) have listed as problematic in this thread.