Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

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Originally Posted by Katish

Well, FFXIV isn't their only product basis...unfortunately we don't have numbers indicating very specifics. If I had to fathom a guess...it would come from their figurines and other "byproduct" items basically the double dipping of the franchise (This holds true with a lot of other companies)

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Sorry, merchandising is a separate category.

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Originally Posted by Heavenchild

Again, there is much much more stuff in the cashshop than ever before.

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Yep - and they're likely still trying to compensate for recent events such as this:

https://i.imgur.com/ertmECn.png

I'm also led to believe that Forspoken didn't do as well as the company hoped and even led to the studio responsible for it shutting down. There's more merchandise being sold than ever before, sure, though that doesn't necessarily translate into customer satisfaction where FFXIV is concerned because a lot of us are here to play a video game with some staying power to its offerings.

Then, of course, there's the matter of financial reports often being heavily curated in order to give the most positive impression possible. Another factor I'd note is that the CEO of the company itself recently changed.

The next content patch for FFXIV isn't out until October and the second part of it isn't due until January. Then there's going to be a fair long wait until Dawntrail. It'll be interesting to see how many new items go on sale in that time period compared to the amount of actual content for players to engage with.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Sorry, merchandising is a separate category.

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They don't incorporate the specifics so we don't know if it is...where are you getting your information...?

As for their reports...they don't tell the entire story...I'd say look at projections (Those are more informed).

https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quot...advanced-chart

Edit: Yes it does...check the report the report is on all branches.

In terms of their revenues, besides the fact that it's accounting for all their MMOs, there is also the consideration that SE had mentioned in its earlier accounts presentation that it's looking for ways to improve subscriber retention:

https://i.imgur.com/QtGZe1Q.png

This was also commented on in an ad they put out for a marketing manager:

https://i.imgur.com/0WidGGd.png

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Copium. But I know I’m in a thread full of people salivating over a clickbait title on a Zepla video lol.

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This game has problems and it's importrant to speak about that. To say that everything is fine, while it is not, will just kill the game in longterm.
There is much more in the mogshop than ever before. They released a lot more and also the older stuff from events adds up. Thats an important thing in the financal statistics.

Maybe a lot of people haven't canceled subscription yet, but they don't log in. Most people I know don't log in anymore, because they feel like 'nothing interesting to do here', even shortly after a new major patch.
A lot of them don't even log in for the patch, after seeing the patchnotes. Those people won't pay for a game they don't play for ever.

Post EW was very weak, because most of the stuff they released feels incomplete. (VA/Criterion or IS). No field content, no relic journey, no sidestory with trials, less and less 'nice to have' in-game rewards.
We did not get 1 new looped dance for example, since the dwarvs tribal quests from ShB.

Thb I don't care anymore, about people like you, who defend this and pretend that everything would be fine.
I love this game and I say when something goes wrong, because I want the game to stay good!

And now I go touch my grass and leave this thread alone. And I am glad that Zepla had the courage to speak out, about all the problems.

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Originally Posted by Heavenchild

This game has problems and it's importrant to speak about that. To say that everything is fine, while it is not, will just kill the game in longterm.
There is much more in the mogshop than ever before. They released a lot more and also the older stuff from events adds up. Thats an important thing in the financal statistics.

Maybe a lot of people haven't canceled subscription yet, but they don't log in. Most people I know don't log in anymore, because they feel like 'nothing interesting to do here', even shortly after a new major patch.
A lot of them don't even log in for the patch, after seeing the patchnotes. Those people won't pay for a game they don't play for ever.

Post EW was very weak, because most of the stuff they released feels incomplete. (VA/Criterion or IS). No field content, no relic journey, no sidestory with trials, less and less 'nice to have' in-game rewards. We did not get 1 new looped dance for example, since the dwarvs tribal quests from ShB.

Thb I don't care anymore, about people like you, who defend this and pretend that everything would be fine.
I love this game and I say when something goes wrong, because I want the game to stay good!

And now go I touch my grass and leave this thread alone. And I am glad that Zepla had the courage to speak out, about all the problems.

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I hope you feel better getting this all off your chest while not caring about people like me.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

In terms of their revenues, besides the fact that it's accounting for all their MMOs, there is also the consideration that SE had mentioned in its earlier accounts presentation that it's looking for ways to improve subscriber retention

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For the NA Marketing Manager, they most likely mean retention in the sense of Free Login Campaigns, retailer partnerships where you get a mount for buying from that retailer, mounts for watching a twitch stream, that sort of thing. Because that's what their marketing teams would have control over. Yoshi-P has actual control over the game and its actual retention.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

For the NA Marketing Manager, they most likely mean retention in the sense of Free Login Campaigns, retailer partnerships where you get a mount for buying from that retailer, mounts for watching a twitch stream, that for of thing. Because that's what their marketing teams would have control over. Yoshi-P has actual control over the game and its actual retention.

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It’s a basic marketing function to attract and retain clients. I’m not sure how this is news.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

It’s a basic marketing function to attract and retain clients. I’m not sure how this is news.

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Perhaps you could have asked that very question when they decided to put that statement in the accounts if it's not an area of concern. Ultimately, I don't think much will convince you, as you seem rather adamant on just using certain very vague aggregated metrics to brush off any criticism and will find an excuse for any downturn in the financial trends. I think the fact that you're celebrating a sub-driven game leaning more on its cash shop (because you didn't really rebut that so much as cheer it on) is telling of the mindset of certain quarters of the fandom.

Each to their own, of course - though ultimately some of us want an actual game to play and so we're leaving feedback relating to the desire for more content with staying power and rewards that don't involve opening one's wallet to automatically acquire a new, flashy item from the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Perhaps you could have asked that very question when they decided to put that statement in the accounts if it's not an area of concern. Ultimately, I don't think much will convince you, as you seem rather adamant on just using certain very vague aggregated metrics to brush off any criticism and will find an excuse for any downturn in the financial trends. I think the fact that you're celebrating a sub-driven game leaning more on its cash shop (because you didn't really rebut that so much as cheer it on) is telling of the mindset of certain quarters of the fandom.

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Retaining subs is always a concern in a sub-based business. It would be absurd if it wasn’t.

i agree with most of the things she said and glad she made this video , i love this game and don't want it to die and it seems some people with too much toxic positivity on the forums don't actually realize they are killing the game themselves .

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Retaining subs is always a concern in a sub-based business. It would be absurd if it wasn’t.

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Except endwalkers hasn't done a good job retaining people with its content it hasn't really provided long lasting grinds or content. Its maintaining subs but people are also not login in to utilize there subs other than keeping there houses and doing content on first week of a patch. There might be people who enjoy the way current content is and play other games when there done but its not maintaining people who actually want to stay to play for a longer period.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

Except endwalkers hasn't done a good job retaining people with its content it hasn't really provided long lasting grinds or content. Its maintaining subs but people are also not login in to utilize there subs other than keeping there houses and doing content on first week of a patch. There might be people who enjoy the way current content is and play other games when there done but its not maintaining people who actually want to stay to play for a longer period.

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At this point I’m willing to wager that the poster has no interest in changing his mind, only to argue pointlessly with those that he disagrees with.

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

At this point I’m willing to wager that the poster has no interest in changing his mind, only to argue pointlessly with those that he disagrees with.

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This tbh, he's basically Renathras or Vel, just without the walls of text

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

There might be people who enjoy the way current content is and play other games when there done but its not maintaining people who actually want to stay to play for a longer period.

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I can actually respect that view point. I can imagine it would be frustrating to feel like you need to stay subbed because of a house and also want to play more, but simply don't feel like you have anything you want to do in-game. Broken record and all that, but SE understands one thing. Money. If they're able to profit off of perpetual housing subs, the "I've just always subbed" types that aren't happy, and the very casual types that only sub for a couple of months a year, and complete the MSQ and move on to other games, why would SE change anything?

Talk is relatively cheap. If someone told me they were super frustrated with my product and any day now was going to stop using it if the product didn't change, but they kept purchasing 10 of it a month as it was, what incentive would I have to change it? I understand that people really hate the "stop subbing" argument, but the reality is, that's the only real power they have.

What's funny is I agree with a lot of the arguments put forward by a lot of people here, the only difference is I refuse to continue to sub when I get bored/not having fun.

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

At this point I’m willing to wager that the poster has no interest in changing his mind, only to argue pointlessly with those that he disagrees with.

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I dont know how they think the financials proves daily/monthly subs and logins

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I can actually respect that view point. I can imagine it would be frustrating to feel like you need to stay subbed because of a house and also want to play more, but simply don't feel like you have anything you want to do in-game. Broken record and all that, but SE understands one thing. Money. If they're able to profit off of perpetual housing subs, the "I've just always subbed" types that aren't happy, and the very casual types that only sub for a couple of months a year, and complete the MSQ and move on to other games, why would SE change anything?

Talk is relatively cheap. If someone told me they were super frustrated with my product and any day now was going to stop using it if the product didn't change, but they kept purchasing 10 of it a month as it was, what incentive would I have to change it? I understand that people really hate the "stop subbing" argument, but the reality is, that's the only real power they have.

What's funny is I agree with a lot of the arguments put forward by a lot of people here, the only difference is I refuse to continue to sub when I get bored/not having fun.

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I still enjoy the game but i also dont think the mmo division financials somehow proves that ff14 is the sole reason for the money that division makes or is telling us player retention or numbers of daily/monthly logins. The divisions financials covers 3 mmos and a cash shop and doesn't break down each individual games quarterly income. We still don't know how much people are playing based on quarterly revenue.

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Originally Posted by RosaliaDLB

This tbh, he's basically Renathras or Vel, just without the walls of text

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The common denominator is none of these guys know how to admit they are wrong it’s just continual doubling down

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

The common denominator is none of these guys know how to admit they are wrong it’s just continual doubling down

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Show me how I am wrong about numbers on a report.

All the counters were speculation and desperate attempts to put a negative spin on the game making money. One such poster was so distraught she had to go outside.

EDIT:

You can rejoice, I'm out of posts. If I still care enough to reply tomorrow I will. Look forward to it!

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Show me how I am wrong about numbers on a report.

All the counters were speculation and desperate attempts to put a negative spin on the game making money. One such poster was so distraught she had to go outside.

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Because the mmo division financials also include ff11 and dragon quest 10 and mogstation sales as well. And there is no correlation between the mmo divisions financials and ff14 and its luckybancho census which could be inaccurate because it pulls numbers from lodestone and doesn't count people below level 60 in its reports. FF14 might make up a large portion of the profits but ff11 and dragon quest makes decent money still on a quarterly/yearly report.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

She's spot on imo and her critique isn't even that bad. She prefaces every negative point with how much she loves the game to the point that it's a little annoying at times. But what she's saying the game needs to work on is 100% accurate.
Forum responses have been predictable. I only came here to see the inevitable head-in-the-sand response to a well known XIV content creator echoing the same critiques many of us here have been saying for months/years. Maybe next they will say that Zepla is a Titanman alt, lmao

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What's funny is this opinion isn't unique to Zelpa. Even the likes of Mr. Happy and Mizzteq have been critical of Endwalker. Which is downright unheard from either one of them in the past. Happy's repeatedly mention the relic being a huge disappointment among other things and Mizzteq outright admitted she's completely lost interest, albeit partly due to how poorly her Savage group was but also citing how stale the formula has become. You then have two highly prolific WoW streamers in Naguura and AnnaFuchsia who quit after being repeatedly and incessantly harassed for not prioritizing the story or liking it to the extent people thought they should. Both are known for being highly positive streamers too. So you can't dismiss this as a LimitMax situation.

At some point, you can't keep dismissing every little bit of criticism as a minority. It isn't like these streamers all suddenly woke up one morning and decided "Ya know, FFXIV sucks." Xenosys literally has a video of him crying on stream because of the sheer impact FFXIV's had on his life, and how touched he was when Yoshida commented on his channel directly to him. That hasn't stopped him from being critical.

If you like Endwalker, then more power to you. A lot of people find it divisive at best. Which is fine. We're all entitled to our opinions. Just as you're welcome to love EW, others are welcome to be critical of it.

Or maybe this is all just a massive Titanman conspiracy theory lmao

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

And ? I'm just posting my opinion, which is the same as her opinion ? By the way this is a recent video posted today (literally less than an hour ago) so it counts as news as well. If you don't like it just don't click on it. It's my opinion, take it or leave it, it's that simple really, Capiche ?

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So why didn't you just post it in your own words instead of linking a youtubers video. Did you think that by doing this it would lend you some kind of credibility, or that there were people on this board who didn't think similarly because there are number of them who make their opinion known loudly and frequently. I doubt this was some kind of sincere attempt to talk about facets of the game you are unsatisfied with and more about putting up a video on an alt account that you feel will stir up the forum in some way.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

So why didn't you just post it in your own words instead of linking a youtubers video. Did you think that by doing this it would lend you some kind of credibility, or that there were people on this board who didn't think similarly because there are number of them who make their opinion known loudly and frequently. I doubt this was some kind of sincere attempt to talk about facets of the game you are unsatisfied with and more about putting up a video on an alt account that you feel will stir up the forum in some way.

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Have you ever heard of sharing links ? Sharing a news article you read, or a Youtube video you found ?

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

What's funny is this opinion isn't unique to Zelpa. Even the likes of Mr. Happy and Mizzteq have been critical of Endwalker. Which is downright unheard from either one of them in the past. Happy's repeatedly mention the relic being a huge disappointment among other things and Mizzteq outright admitted she's completely lost interest, albeit partly due to how poorly her Savage group was but also citing how stale the formula has become. You then have two highly prolific WoW streamers in Naguura and AnnaFuchsia who quit after being repeatedly and incessantly harassed for not prioritizing the story or liking it to the extent people thought they should. Both are known for being highly positive streamers too. So you can't dismiss this as a LimitMax situation.

At some point, you can't keep dismissing every little bit of criticism as a minority. It isn't like these streamers all suddenly woke up one morning and decided "Ya know, FFXIV sucks." Xenosys literally has a video of him crying on stream because of the sheer impact FFXIV's had on his life, and how touched he was when Yoshida commented on his channel directly to him. That hasn't stopped him from being critical.

But maybe this is all just a massive Titanman conspiracy theory lol

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Apparently the forums members that are disliking streamers even more then ever after zepla and other streamers have recently started heavily criticizing instead of being overly happy gamers that overhype the game seem to think there criticisms are attacking the playerbase and are a part of titanmens grand scheme of game wide domination. People who once love zepla for being dismissive towards criticism and saying how perfect the game was and how wrong it was to criticize the game like some forumers do are suddenly turning on her for daring to criticize the game. Even people like zepla has breaking points and seems her and other streamers have reached there breaking points with endwalkers patches. No amount of "just wait it might get better" is going to change the fact that we have waited and things haven't got better with this expansions patches.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

No amount of "just wait it might get better"

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yea this philosophy never made any sense to me, but its been here since ARR so i never questioned it.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

People who once love zepla for being dismissive towards criticism and saying how perfect the game was and how wrong it was to criticize the game like some forumers do are suddenly turning on her for daring to criticize the game.

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This is the outcome I'm expecting, provided it's actually happening at all. Without any "proof" to back it up (outside of the forums), I can only speculate. I just know the player base, and I can usually predict where things will go.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

This is the outcome I'm expecting, provided it's actually happening at all. Without any "proof" to back it up (outside of the forums), I can only speculate. I just know the player base, and I can usually predict where things will go.

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It wouldn't surprise me if some of her fans turned on her for expressing criticism for the one video she made on endwalkers considering some people in this thread felt attacked by her video. Her video wasn't even negative and had valid points but some people would probably see this one video as negative and stop watching her. Its like people expect zepla to always be her positive self then the moment she makes a video criticizing endwalkers people act like there being attacked and victimized because she did a video that she isn't known for doing since she always remains positive.

FF16 getting two DLC, yoshi P will be busy

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

What's funny is this opinion isn't unique to Zelpa. Even the likes of Mr. Happy and Mizzteq have been critical of Endwalker. Which is downright unheard from either one of them in the past. Happy's repeatedly mention the relic being a huge disappointment among other things and Mizzteq outright admitted she's completely lost interest, albeit partly due to how poorly her Savage group was but also citing how stale the formula has become. You then have two highly prolific WoW streamers in Naguura and AnnaFuchsia who quit after being repeatedly and incessantly harassed for not prioritizing the story or liking it to the extent people thought they should. Both are known for being highly positive streamers too. So you can't dismiss this as a LimitMax situation.

At some point, you can't keep dismissing every little bit of criticism as a minority. It isn't like these streamers all suddenly woke up one morning and decided "Ya know, FFXIV sucks." Xenosys literally has a video of him crying on stream because of the sheer impact FFXIV's had on his life, and how touched he was when Yoshida commented on his channel directly to him. That hasn't stopped him from being critical.

If you like Endwalker, then more power to you. A lot of people find it divisive at best. Which is fine. We're all entitled to our opinions. Just as you're welcome to love EW, others are welcome to be critical of it.

Or maybe this is all just a massive Titanman conspiracy theory lmao

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I had no idea that’s why naguura stopped streaming the game. She’s an incredibly good player and I was disappointed to see she went back to wow full time.

This community man.

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Originally Posted by ValkyrieL

FF16 getting two DLC, yoshi P will be busy

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I remember when people said Yoshi P would focus on XIV once FF16 was done

good times, was a good joke tbh

https://www.dexerto.com/final-fantas...eiled-2276532/

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

I had no idea that’s why naguura stopped streaming the game. She’s an incredibly good player and I was disappointed to see she went back to wow full time.

This community man.

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#GCBTW

The tags made me laugh.

Not really sure what to say. I share the same sentiments for the most part, but I also fail to see what this changes. She is the biggest youtuber/streamer for the game, but this game doesn't have a lot of big youtubers/streamers to begin with. I doubt SE really cares about what she has to say that much.

And in a way I like that about the game. Don't really want e-celebrities getting special treatment, even if we share opinions.

it's ok guys clearly yoshi P finished FF16 so he will focus on FF14 now

https://i.redd.it/47b0myhikzi61.jpg

oh wait

https://www.ign.com/articles/final-f...in-development

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Originally Posted by Theodric

[...]That was our social experience - not visiting venues.

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Damn, same!
Eureka/Bozjan is the proof that difficulty create bonds.

The magic about MMO is the massive content. We have it in hunts, Bozjan, Eureka...and ???. Alliance raid scratch it a little bit but nowadays you farm it just for the glam or minions. Except for savages/extremes, i barely see myself thinking "what i am doing wrong? how can i improve?" like happens in Warframe almost everywhere.

During the best phase of MMORPGs, you had massive contents everywhere including leveling and pvp (LineAge 2, Perfect World, Cabal and Mu online did it well)


Considering their approach to FFXVI, i don't believe we will see the "next gen MMORPG" coming from CBU3. They like instanced content and cinematographic experience too much.

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Originally Posted by RosaliaDLB

I remember when people said Yoshi P would focus on XIV once FF16 was done

good times, was a good joke tbh

https://www.dexerto.com/final-fantas...eiled-2276532/



#GCBTW

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But once again he's just a producer.....they can easily re-use stuff plus we don't know the extent of the DLC it could be like 15 style episodic stuff which wouldn't be as much as a time sink. Plus this will take time to come out...the earliest end of next year if its sooner then scope is small. But yeah producer...he's a marketing piece for the game because shock...the director and game director are probably off making it....they were barely present during the marketing lead up for the game as well. I definitely wasn't one to say he would focus on 14 once 16 is done....however it is....he doesn't really have to be part of this production cycle he can just sign off bits and let the team get on with stuff. Its a shock how people don't think a team of 100s of people cant work on multiple projects...especially with outside contractors and we know already CBU1 and 2 helped as well. Either way curious what they are going to announce by year end. Also makes sense a small skeleton team would make the PC port....like that was obvious.

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Originally Posted by RosaliaDLB

it's ok guys clearly yoshi P finished FF16 so he will focus on FF14 now

https://i.redd.it/47b0myhikzi61.jpg

oh wait

https://www.ign.com/articles/final-f...in-development

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Did you mean to post the same thing essentially twice? XD

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Originally Posted by Theodric

In terms of their revenues, besides the fact that it\\'s accounting for all their MMOs, there is also the consideration that SE had mentioned in its earlier accounts presentation that it\\'s looking for ways to improve subscriber retention:

https://i.imgur.com/QtGZe1Q.png

This was also commented on in an ad they put out for a marketing manager:

https://i.imgur.com/0WidGGd.png

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Zepla was right, it’s not burnout but boredom, subscriber retention is a lot easier when we have something to do. Running the same two expert dungeons for almost 6 months at a time is terribly boring.

They can hire all the marketing they want but the core problem still remains. The 6.x content really isn’t all that fun or engaging after it’s first play. No relic grinds of any kind is also a disaster in terms of retention. I was REALLY looking forward to the relic grind to keep me going.

They really should have stopped 6.0 with Zord as the final boss and then go 6.1 to 6.3 with the remainder of the content. The content they have for all of the 6.x patches would fit nicely into two patches.

I also have a feeling that patches taking 4.5 months long is due to the changes made to the workplace by the pandemic. I don’t think management gave them the extra time, they were told by the staff that they are taking longer.

Lack of repeatable content, lack of enjoyable content, huge gaps in patches, horrible incentives to do new content (va/criterion) and island sanctuary (management simulator), jobs balanced on Savage / Ultimate only, it’s a perfect recipe for disaster.

This is what the financials are showing, while the new Moogle event will help a little, it won’t stop the bleed.

I want to play, I really do, this game is my escape for the last 10 years but I have no reason anymore to login. As such, my sub will probably drop to life support only because of my house. No alts, retainers, etc.

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

I had no idea that’s why naguura stopped streaming the game. She’s an incredibly good player and I was disappointed to see she went back to wow full time.

This community man.

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It happened with Asmongold too, Ironically, it was FFXIV that "broke the camel's back" as it were and contributed to him primarily streaming on his alt Twitch account now. He got so fed up with people bugging him about the MSQ and how to play the game, he stopped playing it altogether. With Naguura, she did eventually relent to being constantly pressured to play the MSQ and wound up hating it as a result that she quit. Anna had to post this on Twitter:

https://i.imgur.com/RqnsZre.png

And before anyone tries to say she didn't give the game a chance, she got up to 5.3 without any skips. She just didn't love the story the way the GCBTW demands. It's ridiculous how cult like people can get with this game and the MSQ.

"teenage girl's blog"

https://media4.giphy.com/media/L1VXD...=200w.gif&ct=g

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Originally Posted by Elissar

Damn, same!
Eureka/Bozjan is the proof that difficulty create bonds.

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I don't think that's quite the way to word it. Eureka and Bozja, outside of BA/DRSav, aren't really "hard", per se. Especially the field stuff (FATEs/NMs). It's more that the tasks require/heavily encourage working together, and the barriers to working together are very, very low, as you can join and leave parties whenever you feel like it.

I think it's more the combination of that flexibility, ease of grouping, and targeted objectives (you have various ways to get the parts you need, but you know what you need and can set about getting them however you choose), combined with some mysteries (what all things you need, how to get which Logograms, etc) for people to experiment with and share knowledge with others, that makes it work.

Things don't need to be Savage or Extreme or etc difficult, they just need to (a) give people a concrete goal to work for, (b) be accessible to lots of people, and (c) have low barriers for people to join in. That's what builds community and engagement.

There's a reason it's only a minority, and only a very small minority, that does Savages in general and Ultimates in the very small case. Difficulty isn't the end-all if there's not accessibility.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

On a little tangent, I do see some irony in how the perception of content creators seems to change depending on whether people do or don't agree with them.

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It is really funny how the same people that have for months, if not years, said Zepla doesn't speak for them...are now in full agreement with her and acting like she speaks for the whole community. All it took was her getting upset like they do. I think it's a bit different with the people disagreeing with her now, as they didn't insist she spoke for the community before, they just noted agreement when it came to her, just as they note disagreement with her now. Little change there.

I get the "If even X thinks it's bad, and X is terminally positive, it MUST be bad!" consideration, but it comes across as kind of flakey to go from "This person speaks for herself only" to "She's so stunning and brave and this is a sea change!" basically hinged on her posting one video of being as upset as they've been.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

If you are viewing this as some sort of personal attack,

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An attack on anyone who disagrees is not a critique - and I happen to disagree, in part (again, I've stated critiques with the game, the short list being (a) no exploration zone is bad, (b) open world feels empty, (c) relic grind is meh, (d) healers need to play differently from each other [not "be harder", just "be different" would suffice], (e) 1 new dungeon every 4.5 months sucks, (f) we need the X.Y5 stuff in the X.Y patches, not even more delayed just so Savage raiders don't feel like they have "too much to do" [I would honestly put the Savage raids in the X.Y5 patches, since the Savage raiders could do the extra content with everyone else, then when they shift to their Savage raids, everyone else still has the other stuff they can do, so everyone wins], and I'll stop there since this is the short list).

Again, she could have simply just...not said that part. It's something I call people on here as well. "I'm upset with the game. Also, people who aren't upset with the game are lazy and bad faith shills!!!". Ever see Ace Ventura 2?

"Inquincu Ocha!!"
"What does that mean?"
"It means 'White Devil'."
"Ah. Tell them I come in peace."
"Inquincu Ocha say..."
"I---...notice you put that 'inquicy orcha' thing in there."
"This is how they know you."
"LEAVE THAT PART OUT next time."

It's super easy to have critiques of the game - I DO IT ALL THE TIME (amusingly, without getting tons of likes and supporting quotes of me doing so) - I just don't insult other people or the playerbase to do so. When the insulting posts get the upvotes, one can be forgiven for thinking it's not the critiques being supported, it's the insults. And vindictive, meanspirited insults are not critique. And noooo, no amount of "We're just oh soooo frustrated, though!" makes it okay.

Either critique the game or don't.

When you attack other players or try to preemptively dismiss people offering counter arguments by making a ridicule or caricature of counter arguments of those who would leverage them, you're in the wrong.

Attack the thing you dislike. If that happens to be other players, not the game, it's possibly time for you to leave.

EDIT:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RosaliaDLB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renathras

yet another blah blah blah.

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waaah waaah waaah people are giving their opinion on the internet that dont align with what i believe in, i feel attacked and harassed !!! quick make them quiet !!! dont let them speak !!! they need to only say what i want them to say !!!

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Case in point.

This is the sort of thing wrong, which is why three alt TwinPeaks here has an issue with me calling it out, since it's how she behaves. She can't offer a rational critique to save her life, it seems, so she just rampages against anyone who doesn't attack the game and attacks and belittles other posters.

Then hyper-likes her post with her alts to make people think others agree with her bullying.

Note she doesn't point out my critiques of the game (that would interfere with her saying I'm a shill), and she ridicules me as calling being attacked "people giving their opinion...i (don't) believe in". Of course, she doesn't know what I'm saying, because she doesn't read my posts. She doesn't want debate or discussion. And reading posts would kind of require that. So she "summarizes" my posts wrong because she doesn't care to get it right. She wants to bully and harass.

People like that are who I have a problem with.

.

If you have critiques of the game, offer them - I do it all the time.

But if you're attacking other players/users/the playerbase, that is not a critique of the game. I'm not sure why this is a hard concept for some people. Because it's not a hard concept. They don't care to critique the game, they just want to attack other people.

THAT is the problem.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

yet another blah blah blah.

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waaah waaah waaah people are giving their opinion on the internet that dont align with what i believe in, i feel attacked and harassed !!! quick make them quiet !!! dont let them speak !!! they need to only say what i want them to say !!!

Quote:

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Then hyper-likes her post with her alts to make people think others agree with her bullying.

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Or maybe, just maybe, have some self awareness that a lot of people dont care about your gigantic wall of text and your constant "i'm a victim look at me, people are mean and they are harassing me and attacking me" attitude, it just makes people either laugh at you or just ignore you. I dont need my alts to like my posts, people do it very well themselves. Every single time there is a complaint agaisnt the game this exact same scenario happens, you somehow always end up shouting to the world that you are the victim, blame yourself for people liking my posts, maybe look at yourself and question why people would like my posts, and no, it's not because they are "the big bad evil people"

Well, you got to vote with your money in this case. I have another game to fall back to.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

And before anyone tries to say she didn't give the game a chance, she got up to 5.3 without any skips. She just didn't love the story the way the GCBTW demands. It's ridiculous how cult like people can get with this game and the MSQ.

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Yeah, there's an immense expectation that streamers react 'correctly' to certain beats in the MSQ. I swear people are addicted to some kind of emotional high they get from watching the 'proper' reactions.

I had stint where I was briefly invited to a certain streamers linkshell by a mutual, and one of the dudes moderators would legitimately spend all day patrolling female streamers streams so that he could proudly announce into the linkshell that they were 'about to cry' and that everyone should come watch.

The idea of a middle aged man spending all day chasing an emotional high from watching young women crying on stream was just so mortifying.