I'm gonna say it. cause no one else will.

Exactly. I'm sure new players just 'love' 1-button dps spam as much as the rest of us too...NOT.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

There's never been a stat squish before either, right?

Sage is supposedly more complicated that other healers from what I hear.

The content is getting progressively more epic and intense with each expac.

And FF14 is watching WoW crumble and no doubt learning from it.

You may be giving up on them a little too soon.

I don't see a need for massive healer changes in light of all this.

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You don't even play healer in any content that matters. You can't even accurately comment on what healers need, yet you sit there with that smug look on your face like you somehow know better than us and us "ignorant DPS-in-healer's robes" need to learn our place. Unlike you, many of us actually do play healers. I switched off of SCH, my favorite job since I started in 2.1, because it felt like trash.

And, before you call me a hypocrite, the difference between you and me is that I actually play a healer in a raid setting and do very well on it. I actually do know what I'm talking about. You've done nothing but talk about situations that only might happen. We're talking about things that do happen.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

@Saefinn. Why make it sound as if healers spend more time either twiddling their thumbs or spam clicking a single dps button than they ever do healing? I have never experienced this and it makes me wonder if we are even playing the same game or you and others are being obtuse or arguing in bad faith.

This is what really gets me. There is already plenty to do as a healer and y'all make it sound as if you practically afk during fights, be it sastasha or eden savage, unless you force yourself to spam the dps button, which kills your credibility.

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Because we are spending a lot of our time spam clicking a single DPS button more than we do healing. At least with Savage there's mechanics to worry about, but even then the majority of the time people are spamming their DPS.

The example I had earlier were of a grey parse, that's an example of me not doing very well to keep my DPS up. BUt 50-60% of my button presses were still DPS related and not healing related and these were for Memoria Misera and Emerald Weapon. There's people who have posted examples of even greater down time than that in Savage content. But we believe maybe on average it's around 70% hence we keep using that figure.

Then when it comes to dungeon content, a huge chunk of it is DPS downtime.

You may never have experienced this, that's fine. I don't think it's a problem until you reach a certain level of healing efficiency. Or when you get to a point where your healing is more second nature and you think about it less.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

There's never been a stat squish before either, right?

Sage is supposedly more complicated that other healers from what I hear.

---

Whilst I am worried this won't solve the problem, this is the detail that I have hope on.

Because things like iLevel discrepancies do contribute to this problem and stat balance is a part of this issue. So a state squish could be a good time to address this, they've yet to state that they are and my hope is based on the fact Yoshi P acknowledged it as a problem. The toolkit we have is better suited for higher intensity healing, but we didn't get it in ShB. I think whether we enjoy healing in EW will contingent on this. But we know that Yoshi P doesn't want healing to be too hard for the lower end of the healing skill spectrum, so I am skeptical that if they are going to fix anything in the squish to what extent.

Of course, this is a detail we'll find out in about a month.

With SGE Yoshi P stated it was more complicated, but it is very close to SCH and the differences aren't that much more complex. But when Yoshi P makes statements like that I take it with a pinch of salt because he said how great the MNK changes were for ShB and the MNK changes for ShB were terrible, hence the rework they're getting.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

So why ask for more? The pedestal you stand on is about to be kicked out from under your feet and is only ever temporary anyways. Lay off the demand for more dps buttons till you see the true amount of changes. Healers are fine the way they are without these weird desires for more complexity to fill small downtimes that are likely about to vanish for the next several months after launch.

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Because many of us have been down this road before. During the Shadowbringers media tour Yoshida outright claimed they increased the outgoing damage yet that simply wasn't the case whatsoever. By the end of Don Mheg I was wall pulling everything in sight while several healers I got spammed Holy/Art of War/Gravity. You mention ilvl except I've healed every piece of non-raid content (and some EXs) on release without ever deviating from spamming my DPS nuke because I have nothing else to do. This notion we'll suddenly have to worry about healing when new content releases is a pipe dream. We won't. We'll spam our two DPS buttons.

Stick to healing? Would you just "stick to tanking" if literally 90% of what you did was spam Bloodspiller?

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Snip

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I've noticed after looking at your displayed main job and starting Bard, myself, that all of the bored healer mains have moved on to Bard, Dancer, and Red Mage
because that's the only way they can live out being an engaging support. It is rather troubling how DPS jobs are basically more fun versions of Healer and Tank jobs. For example, all of the jaded DRK mains who are very likely going to move on to Reaper on release day.

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Originally Posted by Iedarus

I've noticed after looking at your displayed main job and starting Bard, myself, that all of the bored healer mains have moved on to Bard, Dancer, and Red Mage
because that's the only way they can live out being an engaging support. It is rather troubling how DPS jobs are basically more fun versions of Healer and Tank jobs. For example, all of the jaded DRK mains who are very likely going to move on to Reaper on release day.

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Yeah, DNC is my secondary job, RDM was my secondary in SB. PLD is my favourite tank...though I only have GNB to 80 on this char.

And all are getting more healery stuff in 6.0 too.

It's as though we like support and healer elements.

now can we officially get luv banned or something?

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Originally Posted by Axxion

now can we officially get luv banned or something?

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oh good idea but wont stop me come in 10 days do it all over again <3 your stuck with me

You're confused. NEW PLAYERS don't want 1-dps spam spells anymore than veterans. FF14 has the worst healing design in any MMO on the market. There's nothing more boring than FF14 healers; new players will tell you that faster than anyone else. Grinding a healer up is literally just "broil, broil, broil, dot, broil, broil, broil..." that's what the content feels like outside of dungeons. It's so terrible.

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Originally Posted by Truen

You're confused. NEW PLAYERS don't want 1-dps spam spells anymore than veterans. FF14 has the worst healing design in any MMO on the market. There's nothing more boring than FF14 healers; new players will tell you that faster than anyone else. Grinding a healer up is literally just "broil, broil, broil, dot, broil, broil, broil..." that's what the content feels like outside of dungeons. It's so terrible.

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you dont get broil until way later in the game. you mean ruin right? last time i check scholar had ruin II and energy drain.. white mages far more worse off then you they dont even get invited to statics at least scholar and ast get invites for flat damage increase and crit chance 10% really? don't know what your fussing about ast got new dps tools. scholars still broken as helll. heals better then white mage. and now does more damage. white mage is is healers garbage dumb

all i hear is scholars crying. white mage been crying 8 years still not done crap for us. what make you think they listen to you when kept fluid aura in game arr. hw, stormblood and shadowbringers. why is your voice loader toilet no I mean white mage. whos suffered way longer then you have


scholars like spoiled childern didnt get what asked for in chrismas at least you didnt get your dot nerfed and thin air completely destroyed. you got one best aoe buffs in the game give everyone sprint and still crying. your class totally busted and still want more

I do. It's such a bad design. It really does ruin the experience.

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Originally Posted by VictoriaLuv

ugh

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Originally Posted by inhaledcorn

big ugh

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this is just sad really. you 2 think you are better then the other and think he/she is beneath you when you 2 display the same gross attitude right now.

savage and ultimates are content that counts when you want to push all jobs to their limits, however as victoria said there is other content as well, 24 man ,eureka,BA, bojza ,DRSV that need to be examined as well.
however victoria, as people point out even in the most hardest dungeon known, people show once they learn the fight they don't require to heal and a fight even not considering optimal game ,you will still do dps for more then half the fight. also it just sad to see your ideas posts now cause tbh they are hollow ,any good rework or idea is posting them to hear proper thoughts and criticism, don't like then don't post the same idea again. people did not like it for the first time they wont like it again, you want to defend the idea then debate.

as for you ,inhaledcorn, as much as victoria is annoying does not give you the right to diminish her like that especially if you don't know her like that. you don't know her ,you don't know what content she has done or even doing and while victoria is wrong, your actions are embarrassment right now so stop with "im superior, your inferior" nonsense cause right now ,if you look at the mirror you the same as her.

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Originally Posted by Talaris

My goodness that's a lot of assumptions to make of someone and their friends because they play a different way from you. Do me next. I love a good roast. I don't consider myself good enough for savage or ultimate, but occasionally do random Extremes (poorly). I agree with the hardcores that there should be something more. What say you?

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I gladly help anyone wants help savage and ultimate. truth is you really do have give it your all have patience. not every run is gonna be a clear. but really counts is the experience. thing is as long your fun and trying that all matters. clearing something will happen if dedicate enough time to it. understand the mechanics. its not so much watching videos they do help. but what really helps on hand experence. i do raiding cause enjoying doing so with my friends. people want to do it. do not care about numbers. people improve in time. people need that time to approve. rather approve with people have good time. then be stressed angry at someone ever time a wipe happens.

I heard scary stories about some servers. that people got attacked in real-life make a single mistake in savage contect. so no really don't have any love for people take the game to that level. where they need to physically harm someone outside the game itself cause they made a mistake on aether in a static. not only story Ive heard.

Honestly pride myself not being that way. i enjoy company of the person. not judging them solely on how many 80s they have.

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Originally Posted by Talaris

My goodness that's a lot of assumptions to make of someone and their friends because they play a different way from you. Do me next. I love a good roast. I don't consider myself good enough for savage or ultimate, but occasionally do random Extremes (poorly). I agree with the hardcores that there should be something more. What say you?

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Yeah, I barely touch hardcore content, and I'm extremely bored with the current healer design and agree with the overall sentiment of this forum. The fact that Yoshida claims that this design shift is in order to appeal to casuals is just... ugh, casuals have more than two brain cells? Just because I'm a casual doesn't mean I want to spam 1 button.

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Originally Posted by VictoriaLuv

I heard scary stories about some servers. that people got attacked in real-life make a single mistake in savage contect. so no really don't have any love for people take the game to that level. where they need to physically harm someone outside the game itself cause they made a mistake on aether in a static. not only story Ive heard.

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You're not much better if you're quickly to judge an entire population that engages into a certain type of content just because of histories you've heard. Personally, the chillest people I've met in this game are the ones that actually spend their time doing hardcore content.

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Originally Posted by Truen

You're confused. NEW PLAYERS don't want 1-dps spam spells anymore than veterans. FF14 has the worst healing design in any MMO on the market. There's nothing more boring than FF14 healers; new players will tell you that faster than anyone else. Grinding a healer up is literally just "broil, broil, broil, dot, broil, broil, broil..." that's what the content feels like outside of dungeons. It's so terrible.

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Do you count me---the ShB baby who started around late 5.2---as relatively new healer?:D If so then yes I certainly felt exactly that.

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Originally Posted by Truen

I do. It's such a bad design. It really does ruin the experience.

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I've played my fair share of MMOs (except WoW), always as a support role and yep, post-SHB healers are probably the worst support I've ever played in my entire life. Which kinda sucks because this game knows how to do high-quality gameplay and has some pretty clever designs for a lot of things.
I'm not saying that ARR, HW or SB were perfect versions, but I was able to play with them and have fun. Never I would've thought they would simply reduce healers to what they are today. You don't even need to do the hardcore content to realize this, you can simply play the MsQ or dungeons with trusts.

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Originally Posted by Melorie

I've played my fair share of MMOs (except WoW), always as a support role and yep, post-SHB healers are probably the worst support I've ever played in my entire life. Which kinda sucks because this game knows how to do high-quality gameplay and has some pretty clever designs for a lot of things.
I'm not saying that ARR, HW or SB were perfect versions, but I was able to play with them. Never I would've thought they would simply reduce healers to what they are today. You don't even need to do the hardcore content to realize this, you can simply play the MsQ or dungeons with trusts.

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And, the sad thing is: it doesn't even need a whole lot to be somewhat more entertaining. If they don't want us to heal more incoming damage, fine. I get that. Just... give us more DPS buttons to hit since that's what we're doing most of the time. Like, we don't even need a whole lot. Give us back Aero III and Miasma II. Let SCH have Shadowflare and Miasma III (and make that an upgrade of Miasma II). Give us Eurkasian Dykrasis. What did AST have? Stella? I dunno, but let AST have something, too. Return the damage to Fluid Aura but remove the knockback because lord knows that's not why we used it back in the day.

It doesn't have to be DPS-levels of complex, but I don't want to be falling asleep, gdi!

A lot of pages. Let me get this right. Player A likes the healer gameplay and makes a plea not to change it. Ironically that plea comes from the fact that a lot of other users HAVE been complaining about the class.

I'll say this. FF14 is expanding. It has a lot of new players and I think it makes sense to cater to the skill floor for the classes. It sucks for us veteran mains. But alas it is how it is, and making healers accessible isn't necessarily a bad thing for the company at this point in time.
However, it is undeniable that MMO players will clock a lot of hours and get better at their roles. When that happens, the current healer design doesn't give anyone room to grow into the roles and they become outright boring. It's an undeniable problem with the design and a valid reason for people to whine.
The game will be fine if you don't hit that skill tier, or if you do but don't play the role much you may be willing to overlook it. But if you hit the skill level and play the role day in and day out, it's an insufferable design.

A lot of us have been advocating for options that would give us more to do while not raising the skill floor much at all. Alas, we didn't even get that, instead they kept dumbing things down. (weirdly, despite them acknowledging the general player consensus that healers are boring to play)

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Originally Posted by inhaledcorn

And, the sad thing is: it doesn't even need a whole lot to be somewhat more entertaining. If they don't want us to heal more incoming damage, fine. I get that. Just... give us more DPS buttons to hit since that's what we're doing most of the time. Like, we don't even need a whole lot. Give us back Aero III and Miasma II. Let SCH have Shadowflare and Miasma III (and make that an upgrade of Miasma II). Give us Eurkasian Dykrasis. What did AST have? Stella? I dunno, but let AST have something, too. Return the damage to Fluid Aura but remove the knockback because lord knows that's not why we used it back in the day.

It doesn't have to be DPS-levels of complex, but I don't want to be falling asleep, gdi!

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Yeah, people come here thinking they're veryyy clever saying "WELL WE JUST NEED TO HEAL MORE!!" (let's not forget they sort of promised this in SHB and you all know how that went) as if re-doing their entire encounter design is something more reasonable to give more 2 buttons or something. Or acting like we do current content in this game all the time, and not brayflox, alexander or that trial from ARR that my friends and I don't know the name and call it "truck" because we stomp through it in roulettes. Admit already that this is a game based solely on DPS, embrace it and do something with it. Make healing kits have some synergy with it... I don't know. It doesn't matter what they do, just please for the love of the twelve stop with the 1 button spam. If they are able to turn our downtime into giving buffs or whatever it would be great, but like, they don't even need to put that amount of effort to fix it so that it's barely playable.

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Originally Posted by Melorie

Yeah, people come here thinking they're veryyy clever saying "WELL WE JUST NEED TO HEAL MORE!!" (let's not forget they sort of promised this in SHB and you all know how that went) as if re-doing their entire encounter design is something more reasonable to give more 2 buttons or something. Or acting like we do current content in this game all the time, and not brayflox, alexander or that trial from ARR that my friends and I don't know the name and call it "truck" because we stomp through it in roulettes. Admit already that this is a game based solely on DPS, embrace it and do something with it. Make healing kits have some synergy with it... I don't know. It doesn't matter what they do, just please for the love of the twelve stop with the 1 button spam. If they are able to turn our downtime into giving buffs or whatever it would be great, but like, they don't even need to put that amount of effort to fix it so that it's barely playable.

---

To be fair, it would be fairly easy for them to design future encounters that have a higher amount of damage output—thereby raising the healing requirements. The issue is…they aren’t even doing this. I’m not expecting them to go back and retune older content to have more incoming damage that has to be healed; but to, perhaps, look at future encounters and design them to have damage output that requires the use of all these new toys they keep giving healers. Them not doing this makes what I said earlier true: all these toys are now overkill.

They have done a good job giving healers plenty of tools. Just not a good job ensuring we get to use them in a way that isn’t a blatant overheal in most content. I love AST’s healing kit. It’s the only thing that keeps me playing the job since they dumbed down the card system and tacked on Divination and seals as some weak play to keep all 6 major arcana relevant. But Neutral Sect is straight up broken outside of Savage/Ultimate content. No content below Savage requires it in the slightest. And that’s disappointing.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

I'll say this. FF14 is expanding. It has a lot of new players and I think it makes sense to cater to the skill floor for the classes. It sucks for us veteran mains. But alas it is how it is, and making healers accessible isn't necessarily a bad thing for the company at this point in time.

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This ^

I want healing dungeons to be akin to healing a small gank team in the likes of AV or WSG back in WoW. Huge pressure, an emphasis on efficient triage with failure ending in deaths and wipes ahoy. But I also appreciate that that isn't really what the game either wants or needs as a whole. Entirely hardcore MMOs have tried and failed (RIP Wildstar). I'm sure Yoshida is all too aware of that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EaMett

However, it is undeniable that MMO players will clock a lot of hours and get better at their roles. When that happens, the current healer design doesn't give anyone room to grow into the roles and they become outright boring. It's an undeniable problem with the design and a valid reason for people to whine.
The game will be fine if you don't hit that skill tier, or if you do but don't play the role much you may be willing to overlook it. But you hit the skill level and play the role day in and day out it's insufferable design.

---

Of course, this is the flip side of the coin. Right now FFXIV is riding a crest of a wave that is sailing clean over the flailing corpses of WoW, New World, BnS etc. But at some stage it's not going to be the new shiny game in town. No MMO no matter how dominant will ever be able to lean on fresh blood entering the player pool forever. At some point they will need to start addressing the long term hook in the healer role as it's a thorn that's just getting dug further and further into the game's heel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EaMett

A lot of us have been advocating for options that would give us more to do while not raising the skill floor much at all. Alas, we didn't even get that, instead they kept dumbing things down. (weirdly, despite them acknowledging the general player consensus that healers are boring to play)

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This. Again.

It's pretty sad that a core part of the naysayer's argument revolves around 'veterans', 'hardcores' and 'raiders' pushing for healers to get a DPS rotation. That is just one of many suggestions that have been put forth here. As in my first sentence, I'd much rather see healing requirements actually increased. Substantially. But it's evident that that's just not happening despite what Yoshida says with each and every expansion. Levelling dungeons see a bump (ironically less so this time round compared to SB) until we hit the level cap, and then it's dullsville as normal. Debuffs are another option I've put forward repeatedly, except of course we used to have those until SB removed them from healers as a whole and gave them to DPS to forget to use them for whatever reason. More buffs are another route that I still cannot believe SE haven't explored further.

Not everything has to be super complex and game changing. My favourite idea that I've seen here mentioned in recent weeks? The idea of adding a Thundercloud style proc to healer dots. Absolute genius idea IMHO. It adds no extra buttons or bloat whatsoever. It doesn't change a single thing for those that aren't DPS minded, but it gives healers that want to optimise something extra to watch and min max. It'll help break up the rigidly fixed nature of our rotation over the course of an encounter. It'll offer further potential for extra weaves and it'll help break up the monotony of endless Glare spam even if a little.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

This ^

I want healing dungeons to be akin to healing a small gank team in the likes of AV or WSG back in WoW. Huge pressure, an emphasis on efficient triage with failure ending in deaths and wipes ahoy. But I also appreciate that that isn't really what the game either wants or needs as a whole. Entirely hardcore MMOs have tried and failed (RIP Wildstar). I'm sure Yoshida is all too aware of that.



Of course, this is the flip side of the coin. Right now FFXIV is riding a crest of a wave that is sailing clean over the flailing corpses of WoW, New World, BnS etc. But at some stage it's not going to be the new shiny game in town. No MMO no matter how dominant will ever be able to lean on fresh blood entering the player pool forever. At some point they will need to start addressing the long term hook in the healer role as it's a thorn that's just getting dug further and further into the game's heel.



This. Again.

It's pretty sad that a core part of the naysayer's argument revolves around 'veterans', 'hardcore' and 'raiders' pushing for healers to get a DPS rotation. That is just one of many suggestions that have been put forth here. As in my first sentence, I'd much rather see healing requirements actually increased. Substantially. But it's evident that that's just not happening despite what Yoshida says with each and every expansion. Levelling dungeons see a bump (ironically less so this time round compared to SB) until we hit the level cap, and then it's dullsville as normal. Debuffs are another option I've put forward repeatedly, except of course we used to have those until SB removed them from healers as a whole and gave them to DPS to forget to use them for whatever reason. More buffs are another route that I still cannot believe SE haven't explored further.

Not everything has to be super complex and game changing. My favorite idea that I've seen here mentioned in recent weeks? The idea of adding a Thundercloud style proc to healer dots. Absolute genius idea IMHO. It adds no extra buttons or bloat whatsoever. It doesn't change a single thing for those that aren't DPS minded, but it gives healers that want to optimize something extra to watch and min max. It'll help break up the rigidly fixed nature of our rotation over the course of an encounter. It'll offer further potential for extra weaves and it'll help break up the monotony of endless Glare spam even if a little.

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when it doubt you blame the hardcore players. Anyone remember when some people asked to push back the savage a bit so they can prepare. And there where other coin arguing that they didn't want to push back content for the raiders but it was just only the savage raids?

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

To be fair, it would be fairly easy for them to design future encounters that have a higher amount of damage output—thereby raising the healing requirements. The issue is…they aren’t even doing this. I’m not expecting them to go back and retune older content to have more incoming damage that has to be healed; but to, perhaps, look at future encounters and design them to have damage output that requires the use of all these new toys they keep giving healers. Them not doing this makes what I said earlier true: all these toys are now overkill.

They have done a good job giving healers plenty of tools. Just not a good job ensuring we get to use them in a way that isn’t a blatant overheal in most content. I love AST’s healing kit. It’s the only thing that keeps me playing the job since they dumbed down the card system and tacked on Divination and seals as some weak play to keep all 6 major arcana relevant. But Neutral Sect is straight up broken outside of Savage/Ultimate content. No content below Savage requires it in the slightest. And that’s disappointing.

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In the ideal a world, we would've both. Encounters that are different design-wise (because variety is better!) and thus, hit harder, and a better kit in general, so that at least the time we spend doing stuff that's not "current" is also enjoyable, while also leaving room for the people that master the harder encounters to optimize. In my mind, Square Enix is capable of both, but in order to do so they have to get out of their comfort zone and also realize that sometimes, their ideas aren't exactly implemented that well in gameplay. I had high hopes for Endwalker, because they had an entire expansion after gutting the three healers to do something truly different, alongside the whole stat-squish thing, but alas... It's hard for me to stay optimistic regarding these issues.

< Claps >

Is it over yet?

Alright
Making healers feel fresh and exciting isn't something thats gonna be easy over all fix. we need fix alot things. currently how trash and boss monsters interact with a players. how status effects and debuffs are so week and feeble that there not even worth removing with esena. they can make monster and player interactions in combat more active. big trash using tank busters. trash monsters debuffing dps making them lose 50% of there dps can be removed by esuna revisiting whole status effect system all together. maybe even allowing healers to put status effects on other monsters. that isn't useless sleep. or bind something strong that could save a tanks or dps life like paralyze

how each pull of trash is boring it is just much of monsters with really weak auto-attacks telegraphed attacks with no unavoidable attacks. hence they don't do enough damage. so in the end. tanks are forced to pull big cause group of 3 monsters don't do enough damage to them enough to be healed. so they need pull 3-4 packs so healer feel like a healer. this how bad trash/bosses are when dealing damage. unless your doing ultimate/savage content where pretty much any attack you take will down right kill you. they programmed about 10 instant death mechanics claiming its hard. so what does healer really have to heal within that down time. that is issue. lessen the downtime. drasticly making healing more engaging and adding at least 1 more dps abilitiy

this mean that player/monster interaction is extremely weak. and there should be more things the player should focus on other the healing and dps. or players know mechanics enough they never take any damage or need heal anyone else. this is a problem. so best thing can do make it where everyone takes unavoidable damage more. or have some other nasty thing happen to them that healer have to remove

Esuna - Doom - if not removed 8-10 seconds they die and is forced releaseed so they cant raise there
Esuna - Paralyze
Esuna - Blind - makes 50% all your attacks. spells and heals miss
Esuna - Enfeeble - reduces all damage your dps deals by 50%
Esuna - Paci/silence - stop of actions/spell casting ability
Esuna - 50% heavy + with massive damage dot added

going back to 2.0 content where savage/utlimate fights aren't you just spawning directly at the boss. but gambit of trash. and savage bosses with savage/ultimate trash. with more player/monster interactions instead constant tank spank. and mechanic dance

healers are so post to have support abilities. however they made ast overtuned with damage increase buffs. not realising how much they destroyed other healers in doing so.
supporting is another factor of being healer. watch we do not have anything impressive. maybe they can add mechanics where there is a need for use a buff phase where healer has to use there supporting tools instead dpsin or healing to make sure the job is done.

right now adding additional dps skills is just very bad Band-Aid to already massive problem. we have ranged dps can heal themselfs. we have tank can heal themselfs without the new of healer. and solo carry

by no means do they take healer community seriously cause if dont like a job just switch to another, that hook is deep. they need get off there lazy buns and fix it,

I am fine with us having 1 more dps skill as long as they also make healing aspect of the game fulfilling by doing whatever means nesseracy

once they fixed all healing issues plaguing all the ff14 then all fine with having more dps skills

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Originally Posted by inhaledcorn

And, the sad thing is: it doesn't even need a whole lot to be somewhat more entertaining. If they don't want us to heal more incoming damage, fine. I get that. Just... give us more DPS buttons to hit since that's what we're doing most of the time. Like, we don't even need a whole lot. Give us back Aero III and Miasma II. Let SCH have Shadowflare and Miasma III (and make that an upgrade of Miasma II). Give us Eurkasian Dykrasis. What did AST have? Stella? I dunno, but let AST have something, too. Return the damage to Fluid Aura but remove the knockback because lord knows that's not why we used it back in the day.

It doesn't have to be DPS-levels of complex, but I don't want to be falling asleep, gdi!

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Out of couriosity, but do you think people would stop complaining healer being boring in a parallel universe where we do see the return of Aero III, Miasma II, Shadowfalre and Miasma III?

I think...maybe we need more than that?

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Out of couriosity, but do you think people would stop complaining healer being boring in a parallel universe where we do see the return of Aero III, Miasma II, Shadowfalre and Miasma III?

I think...maybe we need more than that?

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Probably not. Because at least there would be more depth to what you’re doing. Maybe you wouldn’t have added healing requirements, but you’d at least have another DoT to manage on top of the first one and your nuke. I still miss Aero III because not only was it amazing to throw on AOE trash packs that you’re also Holying down, it was used on a single target as well. And it has a 24s timer versus Aero II’s 18s, so you had to watch for both and manage both.

I wouldn’t be opposed to more—but baby steps. I said previously I’d love to see more damage-into-healing mechanics a man what SGE’s Kardia does. Give some interaction between the healing toolkit and the damage toolkit. And it would reward healers who could juggle both.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Out of couriosity, but do you think people would stop complaining healer being boring in a parallel universe where we do see the return of Aero III, Miasma II, Shadowfalre and Miasma III?

I think...maybe we need more than that?

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I don't think the complaints would stop completely, no, especially when we compare it to what we had in HW. I do, however, think Sage is on the right path. I think they're waiting to see feedback on Sage and might adjust healers in the future to be more like it if it's received positively. Well, also probably need to see how the playerbase can handle the more DPS-focused healer before they start adding more DPS tools to the other healers.

I think it's going to be something slow and gradual, sadly, but hopefully it's something that can at least start.

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Originally Posted by VictoriaLuv

Alright
exactly what the healer community wants

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yey you finally get it but 1 thing i want to correct you.
this is what all of us want, to have more healing and support to do but as was said before the fixing for all healing issues is a long and rigorous journey that if SE is going to do will take time to do cause they need to fix 8 year worth of content for that to be fixed. so while there is no immediate fix for healing issues , we don't want to spam 1 button for damage for an entire content or most time in one.
so what people are asking add 1 more button for pressing, something else to do to break the monotonous 1 button press we do most of the time, that is all , no rotation no giga brain decision just 1 more button until healing issues are fixed.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

snip

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Yo, where did your sig go?
You had one earlier today, but now it's just gone.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

yey you finally get it but 1 thing i want to correct you.
this is what all of us want, to have more healing and support to do but as was said before the fixing for all healing issues is a long and rigorous journey that if SE is going to do will take time to do cause they need to fix 8 year worth of content for that to be fixed. so while there is no immediate fix for healing issues , we don't want to spam 1 button for damage for an entire content or most time in one.
so what people are asking add 1 more button for pressing, something else to do to break the monotonous 1 button press we do most of the time, that is all , no rotation no giga brain decision just 1 more button until healing issues are fixed.

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Lilybell wasn't designed to be way it is now. they changed it at last second. to be something completely totally useless. the organically was so post to proc off glares watch allowed you have control over when they popped off. but they changed . don't know why they changed it but they did. to white mage has to take damage for lily's to pop off . they were even planning on giving white mage another dps button. but someone in there healer dev team decided to pull out. cause of that. your stuck with the endwalker kit you have now.

Please hit me so i can heal my team! great game designs guys bravo

another reason why its called Holy III and not Holy II I bs you not. person working on said ability got fired sadly, not only that they nerfed dia. completely ruined thin air. they nerfed glare. new glare doesn't just old one 10 + potency increase Holy III has 10 potency increase..losing one of these staff they had pull out abilities out no were . and pray that it works.. sadly it didn't work out too well. and even yoshi-p apologized to healer community

wow i mean don't understand why scholars are upset. it cant get anymore depressing. so but good news removal of these bad healer devs. may mean we have brighter future... perhaps this is 4-5th expansion healin still sucks

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Originally Posted by VictoriaLuv

Lilybell wasn't designed to be way it is now. they changed it at last second. to be something completely totally useless. the organically was so post to proc off glares watch allowed you have control over when they popped off. but they changed . don't know why they changed it but they did. to white mage has to take damage for lily's to pop off . they were even planning on giving white mage another dps button. but someone in there healer dev team decided to pull out. cause of that. your stuck with the endwalker kit you have now.

another reason why its called Holy III and not Holy II I bs you not. person working on said ability got fired sadly, not only that they nerfed dia. completely ruined thin air. they nerfed glare. new glare doesn't just old one 10 + potency increase Holy III has 10 potency increase...

wow i mean don't understand why scholars are upset. it cant get anymore depressing

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Soooource?

Your uncle who works at SE?

You also gonna tell me you know there's a super secret DLC coming for Smash Ultimate?

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Originally Posted by VictoriaLuv

Lilybell wasn't designed to be way it is now. they changed it at last second. to be something completely totally useless. the organically was so post to proc off glares watch allowed you have control over when they popped off. but they changed . don't know why they changed it but they did. to white mage has to take damage for lily's to pop off . they were even planning on giving white mage another dps button. but someone in there healer dev team decided to pull out. cause of that. your stuck with the endwalker kit you have now.

Please hit me so i can heal my team! great game designs guys bravo

another reason why its called Holy III and not Holy II I bs you not. person working on said ability got fired sadly, not only that they nerfed dia. completely ruined thin air. they nerfed glare. new glare doesn't just old one 10 + potency increase Holy III has 10 potency increase..losing one of these staff they had pull out abilities out no were . and pray that it works.. sadly it didn't work out too well. and even yoshi-p apologized to healer community

wow i mean don't understand why scholars are upset. it cant get anymore depressing. so but good news removal of these bad healer devs. may mean we have brighter future... perhaps this is 4-5th expansion healin still sucks

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You can’t go on just the potency values alone. Especially considering our stats are getting squished in 6.0—for all we know, the potencies in the current tooltips are the stat-squished equivalents we have now. You need to wait on the theorycrafters to get their hands on the jobs and test the numbers and potencies in action instead of going off of the tooltip potency at face-value.

Other than that, Imma need some sources on all these development tidbits you have in here. No need for fancy MLA, APA, or Chicago formatting. A link to your print source will more than suffice.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Yo, where did your sig go?
You had one earlier today, but now it's just gone.

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Sometimes when I edit posts on mobile, my “keep your signature” gets unchecked. It’s still there, though. :) Just playing hide and seek.

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Originally Posted by VictoriaLuv

Lilybell wasn't designed to be way it is now. they changed it at last second. to be something completely totally useless. the organically was so post to proc off glares watch allowed you have control over when they popped off. but they changed . don't know why they changed it but they did. to white mage has to take damage for lily's to pop off . they were even planning on giving white mage another dps button. but someone in there healer dev team decided to pull out. cause of that. your stuck with the endwalker kit you have now.

Please hit me so i can heal my team! great game designs guys bravo

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Honestly its pretty close to what I wanted out of a healing spell.It just needs some polish.

Im a vet of both EverQuest and EQ2 where I was much more hardcore than I am now, and SOE made this type of spell the mainstay of the Templar and Inquisitor classes. It missed the mark slightly from the Norrathian version, because honestly it should've probably gotten a single target version (Penance), or make it groupwide and have it trigger off anyone in the party taking damage (Inquisitor's Malevolent Diatribe). I think with some slight reworking (and a reduction in reuse), itll be a good addition to the kit.

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Originally Posted by Talaris

Honestly its pretty close to what I wanted out of a healing spell.It just needs some polish.

Im a vet of both EverQuest and EQ2 where I was much more hardcore than I am now, and SOE made this type of spell the mainstay of the Templar and Inquisitor classes. It missed the mark slightly from the Norrathian version, because honestly it should've probably gotten a single target version (Penance), or make it groupwide and have it trigger off anyone in the party taking damage (Inquisitor's Malevolent Diatribe). I think with some slight reworking (and a reduction in reuse), itll be a good addition to the kit.

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I think the problem with Lilybell, from what I see, is that it is activated on damage the WHM takes.

The FFXIV raid design has very few multiple raid wide AoE's back to back which essentially makes it a one and done. Sure there's a healing at the end but people might have spread out since the raidwide and not get healed by it.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I think the problem with Lilybell from what I see is that it is activated on damage the WHM takes.

The FFXIV raid design has very few multiple raid wide AoE's back to back which essentially makes it a one and done. Sure there's a healing at the end but people might have spread out since the raidwide and not get healed by it.

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Indeed. Its not quite there yet, but I think it can be made useful without a catastrophic amount of reworks like our friends Secret of the Lily or Plenary required

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Sometimes when I edit posts on mobile, my “keep your signature” gets unchecked. It’s still there, though. :) Just playing hide and seek.

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Hahaha I see~
Huh, I didn't even realize that setting was there.
Now that I have a sig too I should be careful of that, thanks for the info.

I love Lilybell because it's pretty close to being the perfect microcosm of the worst things about WHM cooldown design. It's Yet Another Boring Vanilla Heal with maybe a small quirk on how it works (pulses taking damage). It has no interaction with the rest of the kit. It's got the *chef's kiss* White Mage standard pattern where it's got higher potency on paper, and then the design team poops all over it with a ghastly long cooldown that ensures you'll use it maybe 30% as often as slightly less potent but ultimately far more impactful cooldowns the other healers have (see Benediction vs other cooldowns. A full cure is great! It's not sooooo overwhelmingly powerful that it needs more than triple the cooldown of Essential Dignity, considering how relatively few casts of anything it takes to fullcure tanks in this game). And to top it all off, it's obviously designed for an incredibly niche situation like Titan tumults.

So yay, yet another boing oGCD heal to fling out between casts, not interact with at all, let it passively heal the party 3-4 times an encounter, and return to Glare. Glare. Glare. Glare. Glare. Glare. Glare. Glare.

But they want us to heal more. That's why we have these boring brainless noninteractive heal blast cooldowns that counter mechanics with a flick of the wrist so we have even more time to spam Glare. See you all in the DPS queues for another expansion!

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I love Lilybell because it's pretty close to being the perfect microcosm of the worst things about WHM cooldown design. It's Yet Another Boring Vanilla Heal with maybe a small quirk on how it works (pulses taking damage). It has no interaction with the rest of the kit. It's got the *chef's kiss* White Mage standard pattern where it's got higher potency on paper, and then the design team poops all over it with a ghastly long cooldown that ensures you'll use it maybe 30% as often as slightly less potent but ultimately far more impactful cooldowns the other healers have (see Benediction vs other cooldowns. A full cure is great! It's not sooooo overwhelmingly powerful that it needs more than triple the cooldown of Essential Dignity, considering how relatively few casts of anything it takes to fullcure tanks in this game). And to top it all off, it's obviously designed for an incredibly niche situation like Titan tumults.

So yay, yet another boing oGCD heal to fling out between casts, not interact with at all, let it passively heal the party 3-4 times an encounter, and return to Glare. Glare. Glare. Glare. Glare. Glare. Glare. Glare.

But they want us to heal more. That's why we have these boring brainless noninteractive heal blast cooldowns that counter mechanics with a flick of the wrist so we have even more time to spam Glare. See you all in the DPS queues for another expansion!

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It's a shame because it really looked like the AoEs were triggered when the lilybell was hit, including when the WHM cast Holy III in the trailer. Even if you did nothing else but these 2 changes, it would already become a far more useful tool to work with: Hitting the Lilybell means you can place it in an area likely to get struck without having to put yourself in harms way (makes it more casual-friendly) and it allows you to make it less situational by forcing stacks to burn with Holy III, covering some lost DPS in the process (makes it more experienced-friendly). There's certainly the question of whether or not forcing it to trigger with Holy III would actually be worth it consdering it's still a loss, and how often would you really need to force extra uses from it, but at least the option would be there.

I was kind of hoping it would be something other than just a heal, but shame on me for expecting something that's not a heal on WHM.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I love Lilybell because it's pretty close to being the perfect microcosm of the worst things about WHM cooldown design. It's Yet Another Boring Vanilla Heal with maybe a small quirk on how it works (pulses taking damage). It has no interaction with the rest of the kit. It's got the *chef's kiss* White Mage standard pattern where it's got higher potency on paper, and then the design team poops all over it with a ghastly long cooldown that ensures you'll use it maybe 30% as often as slightly less potent but ultimately far more impactful cooldowns the other healers have (see Benediction vs other cooldowns. A full cure is great! It's not sooooo overwhelmingly powerful that it needs more than triple the cooldown of Essential Dignity, considering how relatively few casts of anything it takes to fullcure tanks in this game). And to top it all off, it's obviously designed for an incredibly niche situation like Titan tumults.

So yay, yet another boing oGCD heal to fling out between casts, not interact with at all, let it passively heal the party 3-4 times an encounter, and return to Glare. Glare. Glare. Glare. Glare. Glare. Glare. Glare.

But they want us to heal more. That's why we have these boring brainless noninteractive heal blast cooldowns that counter mechanics with a flick of the wrist so we have even more time to spam Glare. See you all in the DPS queues for another expansion!

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This exactly. I think Lily Bell will be a very strong healing tool. But….we already have so many…why couldn’t the darn thing pulse DAMAGE?