"gogogo" might make me quit this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

Funny when people describe normal pulls as "speedrunning" when speedrunning is 1 tank and 3 dps (or just 4 blue mages).

---

Funny when people describe 'speedrunning' as 1 tank and 3 dps when speedrunning is 1 ninja.

NIN speedrun

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enjuden

As an older gamer, why do you want to waste time instead of do things efficiently? Do you want to hold people back from doing other things on purpose? Do you want to spend more of your limited time doing content that can be done quickly by moving forward with the group that goes quickly, where you could use your gap closers instead of sprint on cooldown? (at least as Thaumaturge, your mileage may vary here)

---

We're playing a freaking game. Obviously we're wasting time. If I wanted to be efficient, I would shut off the computer, find a productive task, and efficiently carry it out. When I'm in a video game I'm there to waste time. What "other things" would you rather be doing? If you'd rather be doing them than running the dungeon, then simply do them instead of queueing to begin with. You're queueing for dungeons and then complaining because others aren't allowing you to get out of the dungeon that you queued for fast enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

We're playing a freaking game. Obviously we're wasting time. If I wanted to be efficient, I would shut off the computer, find a productive task, and efficiently carry it out. When I'm in a video game I'm there to waste time. What "other things" would you rather be doing? If you'd rather be doing them than running the dungeon, then simply do them instead of queueing to begin with. You're queueing for dungeons and then complaining because others aren't allowing you to get out of the dungeon that you queued for fast enough.

---

Hard disagree. Setting aside some time in our lives to do a task/activity that we enjoy is -not- a waste. On the contrary, it's healthy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Hard disagree. Setting aside some time in our lives to do a task/activity that we enjoy is -not- a waste. On the contrary, it's healthy.

---

he got a point is a game , a time waster. wanting to be good is ok but expect people to do the most extra by not even asking them is stupid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

We're playing a freaking game. Obviously we're wasting time. If I wanted to be efficient, I would shut off the computer, find a productive task, and efficiently carry it out. When I'm in a video game I'm there to waste time. What "other things" would you rather be doing? If you'd rather be doing them than running the dungeon, then simply do them instead of queueing to begin with. You're queueing for dungeons and then complaining because others aren't allowing you to get out of the dungeon that you queued for fast enough.

---

Bravo. It's similar to the same reason I bought a PS5 and repurchased the entire game. Since the global health crisis I work from home 99% of the time and I just don't enjoy gaming anymore in the same room and screen where I stare at spreadsheets and code all day with m/kb.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Hard disagree. Setting aside some time in our lives to do a task/activity that we enjoy is -not- a waste. On the contrary, it's healthy.

---

"That we enjoy," is the key. YoshiP and I are in agreement on this. Neither of us enjoy games that are all based off efficiency: https://youtu.be/e_i6mjiGerU?t=313

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

"That we enjoy," is the key. YoshiP and I are in agreement on this. Neither of us enjoy games that are all based off efficiency: https://youtu.be/e_i6mjiGerU?t=313

---

Unfortunately by the nature of DF's matchmaking system, none of us has power over who we will get matched with. All sorts of players use DFs. In the end the power goes to the majority at the moment. The minority are given tools to use PF or even squadron/trust. Partying up with friends also works. If one doesn't enjoy something then they shouldn't try to force themselves to.

That link really serves nothing to this discussion. Because guess what? Devs don't play the game. It is WE who played the game. It doesn't matter what they are agreeing or disagreeing to; they make the game for us to play, not the dev themselves. Reality still stands: majority wins, for better or worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

"That we enjoy," is the key. YoshiP and I are in agreement on this. Neither of us enjoy games that are all based off efficiency: https://youtu.be/e_i6mjiGerU?t=313

---

If you could accept the fact that players have been pulling wall to wall since 2013 and stop resorting to "bUt YoShI-p SaId so" every time someone disagrees with your abysmal takes, that would be great.

Yoshida also once said that healers shouldn't feel the need to DPS, yet the community at large expects healers to do damage. Unless the devs were to drastically reduce the amount of downtime healers have, which they absolutely won't, healers will continue to be expected to do some damage. So unless the devs make trash hit harder and actually pose a threat, or limit pulls to 1 set of mobs at a time, the community will continue to pull as many mobs as they can get away with. And no amount of bellyaching is going to change that.

You want slow, methodical runs? Start a party finder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

We're playing a freaking game. Obviously we're wasting time. If I wanted to be efficient, I would shut off the computer, find a productive task, and efficiently carry it out. When I'm in a video game I'm there to waste time. What "other things" would you rather be doing? If you'd rather be doing them than running the dungeon, then simply do them instead of queueing to begin with. You're queueing for dungeons and then complaining because others aren't allowing you to get out of the dungeon that you queued for fast enough.

---

You're 100% correct but the dungeon system, and a lot of core elements in XIV's design and changes, are tailor made for people like the person you quoted.
I don't know what goes through those people's heads. They complain that they don't want to waste time in duties, but they also defend the dungeon design, which they, themselves, KNOW is so downright dull and boring ends up feeling like nothing but chores after you get past flashy setpieces for the first time. Same people will also vouch for the way jobs are designed while also hating spending time playing those jobs outside high end content.
If you hate doing the content, the content isn't good. That's a fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

We're playing a freaking game. Obviously we're wasting time. If I wanted to be efficient, I would shut off the computer, find a productive task, and efficiently carry it out. When I'm in a video game I'm there to waste time. What "other things" would you rather be doing? If you'd rather be doing them than running the dungeon, then simply do them instead of queueing to begin with. You're queueing for dungeons and then complaining because others aren't allowing you to get out of the dungeon that you queued for fast enough.

---

You got so many bad takes it's difficult to know where to begin, but guess I'll start here. Now I wonder what could possibly be the incentive for max level players to queue for dungeons via roulettes in the first place? Would be weird if there was a resource that was only awarded at the completion of the dungeon that would incentivize getting through the content quicker so they could move on to the next activity that rewards that resource.

You know what would be even weirder, if there was a 2nd resource that was always rewarded just for queue'ing Adventurer in Need in some roulettes. Like wouldn't that be weird, if someone had piece of gear and they were like "I'd really like to make this gear a little bit better by slotting something into it... but it only has a 10% success rate... so maybe I should have about 20 of that thing before even trying... and they cost 50k each on MB right now so that's out of my price range... oh I could just queue for leveling 10 times back to back though..." That be so weird if there were systems baked into the game that gave ppl an incentive to run content faster to get to their ultimate goal.

Now whether that design philosophy is good or bad, that's up for debate, but to act like "why could anyone possibly want to get through a dungeon quicker" is absolute bad faith. This is why you will always see me 110% advocating for the expansions of squadrons/Trusts into more dungeon and normal trial content. So the ppl that actually have accessibility issues can move at their own pace, and the ppl that with power trip "power fantasies" that need every piece of content they run to be the most important content ever when they're running ARR content in 2022 can piggyback on that system. I'll even support fill-in parties with Squadrons and Trusts for the duos and trios that absolutely can't stand having partial randoms.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

lets see, lets take the last 3 dungeons. all of them have at last one boss that you need to know thing for. if you dont most likely you get killed. but when people rush there no time to tell the new player what to do and what no, then its a wipe or and over all longer run as one of the dps is dead half of the time. but telling them what to do take 1 min max.

---

I don't advocate for stopping to breakdown mechanics before every single boss either. Two reasons. One, players that are okay with a semi-blind runs exist. They're confident they can figure it out on their own, so they just queue and run with the party as is. Two, if you wanted a breakdown of mechanics you could ask... However my snarky reply most of the time will be "Dodge AoE, don't die" BECAUSE if you wanted a complete guide to mechanics you could have looked that up beforehand... We're playing an online game... I know you have the internet. The only exception I make to this are week1 runs and most ARR 50 dungeons, since later dungeons bosses mechanics have adopted the design of showing players each mechanic separately, then stacking them together as the fight goes on. They do a much better job of teaching the mechanics on the fly, as opposed to ARR 50 dungeons where there are a lot of mechanics that are just... "No! Wipe! Try again!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

We're playing a freaking game. Obviously we're wasting time. If I wanted to be efficient, I would shut off the computer, find a productive task, and efficiently carry it out. When I'm in a video game I'm there to waste time. What "other things" would you rather be doing? If you'd rather be doing them than running the dungeon, then simply do them instead of queueing to begin with. You're queueing for dungeons and then complaining because others aren't allowing you to get out of the dungeon that you queued for fast enough.

---

This game has many chores I will call them that people are tasked with. People may be trying to fit in capping weekly tomes, leveling alt classes, leveling crafting, relic weapons, farming scrips, working progression on raid like content, catching up on d content such as eureka for example, leveling in bozja. The list goes on.
The more efficient 1 piece of content is tackled, the more time people have for others. So because people are scared to get better, test the limits of a class or even their own abilities, people may miss out on getting other stuff done. It’s not as simple as don’t queue up. The same could be said in reverse as the meta is fast clears are better.
If you want to waste time in a game, more power to you. But you’re wasting other people’s time because you wont step up your game

When's the single player version of FFXIV coming out so we can stop playing with one another already?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hydralus

When's the single player version of FFXIV coming out so we can stop playing with one another already?

---

You know who ends up happy when the game compromises for everyone?

No one. They should make a game the devs would enjoy playing, which I'm guessing is on the harder side. Instead of selling out and going for max subs, but that's not where the money is.

I think there's people that enjoy gaming, and like a challenge, and then there's people that enjoy relaxing, and want to have a game on the side to be doing something mindless.

If they are going to make dungeons any easier they should just make cutscenes instead, noone will want to run them anyways. It's just something you have to get through, the people that don't enjoy difficulty don't want to do anything anyways, and the people who like difficulty will at least not have to deal with the disappointment of putting effort into something that isn't fulfilling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolaina

This game has many chores I will call them that people are tasked with.

---

Yes, and some of these chores are in place to reward older players for helping out newer players. I understand the desire for efficiency, but expecting everyone else to adjust their leisurely activities to make your chores more efficient seems super entitled, in my opinion. The whole reason I left WoW was that it felt like nothing but chores, and the developers actually leaned into that mentality, making the game nothing but chores. I've seen where this mentality leads, and it's not to a good place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolaina

If you want to waste time in a game, more power to you. But you’re wasting other people’s time because you wont step up your game

---

I never said that I won't step up my game or that I don't try to accommodate the go go go crowd. I've said that it's unfun. There's a huge difference.

If you want to quit nobody hold you back. But the onus is normally player and most likely you. Have you tried communication?
As a tank, player should ask first: 'slow or fast?' and go slow if only 1 person ask so. As a healer, speak up if you are underwhelm or overwhelm. As a dps, ask for wait if you want to watch cutscene (which you can skip and watch later in the inn if you like).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaconBits

You want slow, methodical runs? Start a party finder.

---

Right back at you. If you want to efficiently run roulettes, start a party finder and queue as a team rather than expecting a bunch of random players with no expectations to run at a breakneck speed. Or stick to the expert roulette.

One of the main reasons that trusts do not use aoe abilities is because they were designed to be slower than normal players. Thus, logic follows that if you cannot handle aoeing multiple packs at a time, then use npcs instead of burdening normal players who are understood by the devs to clear instances at a faster pace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowde

You got so many bad takes it's difficult to know where to begin, but guess I'll start here. Now I wonder what could possibly be the incentive for max level players to queue for dungeons via roulettes in the first place? Would be weird if there was a resource that was only awarded at the completion of the dungeon that would incentivize getting through the content quicker so they could move on to the next activity that rewards that resource.

---

The reward is for playing through content that you otherwise wouldn't want to do in order to benefit newer players who are not necessarily even getting the same rewards that you are. You're not getting those 50 tomestones just for completing a dungeon that you've outleveled long ago. You're getting that rewards for accommodating newer players. Honestly, most of the people in the game seem to understand that. The elitism on these forums is in no way indicative of anything I've seen in the game. The MSQ is a classic case in point. It rewards 50 tomestones, and everything falls right over. They even drove the point home by making the cut scenes unskippable so that new players don't come out of their cut scene only to find out that a bunch of jerks facerolled the boss before their cut scene was even over. You're trying to counter a "bad take" with a take of your own that is completely at odds with the way the game is designed.

You are free to go slow, but the rest of us are free to go fast. You can enjoy the ride, and the rest of us can get work done.

I remember when I was a new player, I didn't actually watch any cutscenes for dungeons, or group content, because I thought it was rude. I skipped them all on my first time through. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

One of the main reasons that trusts do not use aoe abilities is because they were designed to be slower than normal players. Thus, logic follows that if you cannot handle aoeing multiple packs at a time, then use npcs instead of burdening normal players who are understood by the devs to clear instances at a faster pace.

---

OK, but:

1. Trusts don't award tomestones
2. Trusts don't start until level 70

Unless SE changes that, comparing Trusts to the roulette is comparing apples to oranges.

It's quite obvious that in this game they expect players to pull more than one pack at a time, or at least have enough competency to clear a dungeon in under 30 minutes. Which is why trusts last 30 minutes. They are supposed to be a longer alternative, so players do not just choose to play trusts, I'd assume. That probably even factors a (light) wait time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Then don't queue for leveling roulette.

---

I wasn't aware you were the arbiter of Roulettes. Just because I can get lower level dungeons doesn't mean I have to coddle new players, especially since they may not necessarily be new to the game but simply the dungeon. Granted, I'll be more cautious with a baby in Stone Vigil over Holminster Switch but I'm still going to pull more aggressively because the content has been nerfed so far into the ground I can safely do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

So it took a wipe before you exercised a little consideration for the new healer. That's consistent with my experience in the roulette, and that was the entire point I was trying to make. Thanks.

---

Unlike you and several others, I don't view a wipe as some big colossal failure. They handled the double pulls just fine but were a little behind when I went ahead pulling all the zombies; which I didn't notice. We wiped as a result. Shocking, I know, but this isn't a big deal. We continued along without it being a big deal when I double pulled later. Mistakes can happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

You're drastically oversimplifying. I'm talking about oddball mechanics like the Blizzards in Snowcloak that players sometimes stand in while fighting. What do orange circles have to do with the tank going down too quickly for the healer to keep up? The healer can dodge orange circles all day, and the tank is still going to go down if he's soaking them all while also pulling multiple packs. Also, there is no "under 60" option in the leveling roulette once you've hit 60. You just get whatever someone else needs. That almost guarantees that you're going to have at least one new player in any given 60+ instance via the leveling roulette.

---

No. You are drastically overestimating how difficult big pulls actually are. I cited orange circles because tanks are only ever in danger of dying pulling two packs of mobs if they aren't dodging said circles. We're not talking about super pulls here where the tank has ten mobs on them like you can pull off in Doma Castle or Mt. Gulg. We're talking about 4-6 mobs instead of two. They deal laughably low damage. That blizzard mechanic doesn't matter if the tank uses CDs, which they should be aware of by level 51. If they aren't, the pull size isn't the issue but their lack of common sense. Otherwise, you can just chime in chat, asking them to pull away from the blizzard. Then the pull size goes back to being just as easy as it always was.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

You're not going to see many new players in Holminster Switch, either, because you can do it via a Trust (which is what I did my first time through).

---

You clearly don't queue for Leveling often. I've seen all sorts of players in Holminster Switch. Many of us have because the amount of people who just try blitzing through the game expecting to be carried is staggering. You aren't new at 51 any more than you are at 71. By this point, you're more than half way to level cap. How dare we have a standard of basic understanding for your chosen job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

That may be so in your endgame gear. That's not true of a brand new tank who hasn't even realized that they can go to the splendors vendor to purchase a full level-appropriate set every ten levels starting at 50. I've seen too many paper tanks in the roulette to agree with your statement. Once I've blown my cooldowns and exhausted my lilies as a WHM, I can only spam Cure II so quickly.

---

Nope. I have done Brayflux double pulls in a hodgepodge of gear below 32 on my alt. I've double pulled every HW dungeons in full Ironworks; used various bits and pieces of gear going through Stormblood and wall pulled every single dungeon in Shadowbringers from the very first day; in my i400 gear. I didn't do any of the super pulls save for Don Mheg's, but that's also because I wasn't aware of them at the time. Either way, we're back to you grossly overestimating the difficulty of double pulls. Now I certainly don't expect less experienced tanks pulling everything in sight even at 71, but two packs is laughably easy. If they're struggling, it's either a cooldown problem or the healer isn't paying attention. In both scenarios, the pull size (4-6 mobs, just so we're clear) isn't the issue. It's the players not bothering to learn their jobs and getting upset other peoples aren't willing to coddle them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

The reward is for playing through content that you otherwise wouldn't want to do in order to benefit newer players who are not necessarily even getting the same rewards that you are. You're not getting those 50 tomestones just for completing a dungeon that you've outleveled long ago. You're getting that rewards for accommodating newer players. Honestly, most of the people in the game seem to understand that. The elitism on these forums is in no way indicative of anything I've seen in the game. The MSQ is a classic case in point. It rewards 50 tomestones, and everything falls right over. They even drove the point home by making the cut scenes unskippable so that new players don't come out of their cut scene only to find out that a bunch of jerks facerolled the boss before their cut scene was even over. You're trying to counter a "bad take" with a take of your own that is completely at odds with the way the game is designed.

---

Oh okay, shifting goalposts now. Like you're original point was "How silly this ppl are for signing up for a dungeon and then wanting to get out of the dungeon so quick"

I point out the incentive is the reward structure not the running of the dungeon itself.

So now you completely abandon your first point and make yet another vapid call to some moral standard nonsense. You point at a bandaid they threw over a failed experiment as some kind of proof of intent. If that truly were the case, then all cutscenes in all dungeons would be un-skippable. Instead, and this is strange... they implemented a system where players could run MSQ content with NPCs. These NPCS go as slow or as fast as they want... and this system is continuing in the next expansion. Almost as if... they want to give players that don't want to engage in the community meta a way out...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

(..) grossly overestimating the difficulty of double pulls. Now I certainly don't expect less experienced tanks pulling everything in sight even at 71, but two packs is laughably easy. If they're struggling, it's either a cooldown problem or the healer isn't paying attention. In both scenarios, the pull size (4-6 mobs, just so we're clear) isn't the issue. It's the players not bothering to learn their jobs and getting upset other peoples aren't willing to coddle them.

---

Yeah, with a good party (DPS, heals, and tank) even the "scary" pulls are easy. Bigger pulls are incredibly easy and routine, for me, that I will only notice a problem when this factors in, and you can then easily understand exactly why your party has wiped. Either through DPS taking forever, single targetting (not aoeing), healer not contributing to DPS/healing well... Yes, holy helps a lot. For example, as a tank, when I see a white mage, their benediction factors into whether I will take the risk and pull a massive full pull, and my dcd usage. Most players are (or should be) competent enough to do most regular - yes, regular - sized pulls in the majority of dungeons, especially by mid-late game, in my opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, with a good party (DPS, heals, and tank) even the "scary" pulls are easy. Bigger pulls are incredibly easy and routine, for me, that I will only notice a problem when this factors in, and you can then easily understand exactly why your party has wiped. Either through DPS taking forever, single targetting (not aoeing), healer not contributing to DPS/healing well... Yes, holy helps a lot. For example, as a tank, when I see a white mage, their benediction factors into whether I will take the risk and pull a massive full pull, and my dcd usage. Most players are (or should be) competent enough to do most regular - yes, regular - sized pulls in the majority of dungeons, especially by mid-late game, in my opinion.

---

Healer AoE damage is actually insane. People look at single target damage numbers and go 'ah healer damage isnt that important anyway' (which is false there aswell) but against trash groups healers are some of the best dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

blah blah

---

As far as being rewarded for helping new players, let me remind you that its not only the “veterans” that get rewarded. The new players get a better chance at a smooth run, maybe some insight, watching experienced players handle mechanics so as to learn from them and most importantly, their duty even popping in the first place. There was a time when roulettes were not a thing. You needed ifrit normal? Better hope a standard party worth of people also needs it or you’ll be waiting a long time. I was there, waiting in the ifrit cave for a couple hours that first week of launch. So lets not act like we owe something to the newbies for getting a slight incentive to run old content. They need people to run that content just so newbies aren’t stuck in queue. Its more to their benefit than anyone else’s.
As far as entitled for wanting to run efficiently… you nor anyone else should feel entitled to more of anyone’s time than it takes to complete the duty. If they want to run it to the meta, being a fast run, that’s what you get. You wanting them to slow down, and give you more of their time that they could be spending on something to their own benefit? Well now that’s entitlement. I’d get that in check

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

The reward is for playing through content that you otherwise wouldn't want to do in order to benefit newer players who are not necessarily even getting the same rewards that you are. You're not getting those 50 tomestones just for completing a dungeon that you've outleveled long ago. You're getting that rewards for accommodating newer players. Honestly, most of the people in the game seem to understand that. The elitism on these forums is in no way indicative of anything I've seen in the game. The MSQ is a classic case in point. It rewards 50 tomestones, and everything falls right over. They even drove the point home by making the cut scenes unskippable so that new players don't come out of their cut scene only to find out that a bunch of jerks facerolled the boss before their cut scene was even over. You're trying to counter a "bad take" with a take of your own that is completely at odds with the way the game is designed.

---

Except, and here's the kicker, I'm not queueing for roulettes out of the goodness of my heart, here. I'm not sitting there, tapping my chin, ho-humming about what to do with my time only to decide, "hey, I know! I'm going to queue for old content to help new players. I don't need it, I just want to be nice!" You know alt jobs exist, right? And to level those alt jobs, I have to run ~old content~. Roulettes exist for faster queues all-around. They don't exist solely for new players.

Someone already pointed out to you that they didn't make lvl 50 MSQ cutscenes unskippable to try and tell players to slow down and wait. They did it because it was literally possible to finish the ENTIRE DUNGEON before the third cutscene was even over. The length of the dungeon is entirely cutscenes. The actual content in that dungeon takes less than 6 minutes. That's why they're unskippable. If the developers cared about making sure that everyone got to watch their cutscenes and there was no risk of anyone pulling while someone was in them, all cutscenes would be unskippable. Get that through your head, since you're so hell-bent on trying to use that as an argument. The way MSQ roulette dungeons are handled is no way reflective of how the game is supposed to be played. They are the only two dungeons in the entire game where the cutscenes last longer than the actual content in the dungeon. Therefore, and I'll say this slow so you can understand, they do not, in any way, shape or form, reflect how the rest of the game is to be handled.

Stop hiding behind new players to excuse your laziness.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It's quite obvious that in this game they expect players to pull more than one pack at a time, or at least have enough competency to clear a dungeon in under 30 minutes. Which is why trusts last 30 minutes. They are supposed to be a longer alternative, so players do not just choose to play trusts, I'd assume. That probably even factors a (light) wait time.

---

Even semi afking in trust you can still beat dungeons in less than 30 minutes. In fact trust occasionally are faster than real players. By semi afk i do mean literally zero damage and just dodging bosses aoes as a dps. Most dungeon take between 12 and 16 minutes with normal wall to wall pulls. Longest trust take is about is about 26 minutes with my average clear time around 18 minutes. Clearly they expecting players to clear in less than 15 minutes which is why trust take more than that. The rest of the time is so players can explore the instance and see every detail.

I think people are over exaggerating the length of single-pull runs.

In my experience, w2w runs are about 15 minutes while single pull runs are about 20 minutes.

Just make dungeons harder. Make trash hit harder and have more health. Problem solved. If players only have one option/speed to go through dungeons we won't have to be so divided on how to proceed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ath192

You know who ends up happy when the game compromises for everyone?

They should make a game the devs would enjoy playing

---

That is exactly the opposite of what they should do. Do you want modern WoW? Because that is how you get modern WoW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Just make dungeons harder. Make trash hit harder and have more health. Problem solved. If players only have one option/speed to go through dungeons we won't have to be so divided on how to proceed.

---

A much more simple and cost effective solution would be to link more mobs together. No more 1, 2 or 3 enemy pulls. You get 10, then another 10, then boss. Players will not be divided because they will no longer be able to make up problems where there are none.

I think it would be much more enjoyable to have to actually stop and fight mobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinha

A much more simple and cost effective solution would be to link more mobs together. No more 1, 2 or 3 enemy pulls. You get 10, then another 10, then boss. Players will not be divided because they will no longer be able to make up problems where there are none.

---

No, no, no, the cost effective solution is to have cutscene, boss, cutscene, boss, cutscene, boss, end cutscene. Where the cutscenes before bosses are unskippable renders of the party killing all the trash mobs and introducing the party to the boss and dumping you into their room.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aron73

I would say apart from WoW this is new to me. WoW is literally the only game I've seen this mentality in

---

I played Rift and Aion with very similar types of game play and that was like 2012.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Just make dungeons harder. Make trash hit harder and have more health. Problem solved. If players only have one option/speed to go through dungeons we won't have to be so divided on how to proceed.

---

So, you want single pulls to equate to what double pulls are now, but are complaining about how double pulls suck?

This isn't a solution. It'll never be implemented. They're never going to force players to slow down. If you want to go slow, there's means to do that. Don't drag everyone else down with you because you can't handle the meta. If it's the meta, that means majority of the players are okay with w2w pulling. If you're not, sure sounds like a "you" problem.

Making trash harder is only going to breed rampant elitism. Trash takes forever to die because someone isn't pressing their buttons properly? Chances are, they'll get kicked. If a dungeon takes 30 minutes on average to complete, no one in their right mind will appreciate shoddy performances. So, sounds like you'll be outta luck.

If you want to waste time, waste your own, on your own. Stop trying to force everyone to obide by your rules because you don't want to put effort in.

Have to agree, if they do end up making trash pulls harder then I'll inevitably have even less patience for tanks and dps players who don't know how to use their aoe rotations and healers who refuse to dps, which still show up regularly in lvl 80 and expert roulettes.

I agree. While not optimal I suggest trying tanking, as tanks generally set the pace of a run. I'll never understand this mentality in roulette, where you're never sure of the other party members comfort level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Just make dungeons harder. Make trash hit harder and have more health. Problem solved. If players only have one option/speed to go through dungeons we won't have to be so divided on how to proceed.

---

No. You want hard content where players generally are more careful in how they proceed?

That content already exists: Eureka, Baldesion Arsenal, Save the Queen, Delubrum Reginae Savage, PotD, HoH, EX Trials, Savage Raids, Ultimates.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RotoLoto

I agree. While not optimal I suggest trying tanking, as tanks generally set the pace of a run. I'll never understand this mentality in roulette, where you're never sure of the other party members comfort level.

---

That's because the harsh reality is ppl just need to get over it, especially in dungeons. Once again, for a vast majority of the content in this game, there is no actual penalty for death. You do not lose any resource for wiping, you do not level down, your gear can't get destroyed, you even get all your cooldowns back immediately after a wipe or return to homepoint.

I suppose you do lose some durability... AFTER the dungeon is complete, they changed it to where your gear can't "break" during dungeon runs anymore(break means stats gets reduced, but gear doesn't get destroyed, just have to repair it).

You only lose progress on things that don't die before a wipe (if you wipe). However, for trash pulls, things that do die stay dead, so in the event of a wipe you'll have less stuff to clean up on the next attempt... with all your cooldowns back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuella

I think people are over exaggerating the length of single-pull runs.

In my experience, w2w runs are about 15 minutes while single pull runs are about 20 minutes.

---

For the sake of argument, let's assume this is correct. That means if you're spamming dungeons to level, you'll have to tack on an addition one for every four you'd be otherwise. If we assume it took say, twenty dungeons to go from 71-80, that's an extra five dungeons or roughly two hours added to your grind. That's... quite a bit.

Of course this all assumes single pulls only add five minutes, which isn't the case with higher level dungeons. Plenty of Stormblood and Shadowbringers dungeons are add as much as ten minutes if you're single pulling.