So, how is Pagos?

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

People really are stick in the NM train mindset despite not realizing how laughably inefficient it is.

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It's SE's mistake, to think they can just close pandora's box. If they didn't want FATE trains they should've hotfixed Anemos to make them not viable there in its first week. It's far too late to try and make people play Eureka differently.

my impression so far: boring as all heck once you complete the challenge log for the week. chaining doesn't seem to result in a lot of XP gain in my experience (only been in there 3 times so far) feels like when Anemos first came out. It looks like there is a lot to do but I think SE trying to combat the NM train that formed in anemos is a bad move. people have expectations that it wouldn't be this grindy. it kind of reminds me of EQ to be honest. I hope it picks up soon because it's really slow and boring. Having read we get to collect aether in a pot aka light farming, is rather silly

I kinda like Pagos better than Anemos. Pagos has more of that FFXI feel to it, where you actually have to form a viable party and find a camp, and try to get chain 30. Anemos was just like join the train, go AFK, then kill NM. You can do that in Pagos too, but it's a lot less efficient than joining a chain party.

We'll see what it's like when the majority of people are level 30+ though. It might turn into another Anemos fate train.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

It's SE's mistake, to think they can just close pandora's box. If they didn't want FATE trains they should've hotfixed Anemos to make them not viable there in its first week. It's far too late to try and make people play Eureka differently.

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It's not SE mistake the players dumbness.
NM train is the last phase of Eureka, the first phase is the grind, a lot of players needs to level up with the grind to be able to push the NM train easily.
But players are lazy, while everyone is grinding to make the NM real, them are here complaining.
But when the NM train is placed, all of them will be clapping the content.
And will be the same thing with Logos.

I find it funny, that the MAJORITY said that Anemos was trash and that they would unsub. But look at everyone, they were all lvl 20 at launch day of Pagos, and are here now complaining.

Pagos and anemos are NOT the same, is everyone blind? Can't you see is a ENTIRE NEW MAP, every monster is different than anemos.
I'm lv 24 and I already saw a lot of things improved. Some monsters that does not spawn NM have a chance to grow up and give a HUGE xp when defeated. With the right chain, it can give absurd amount. I killed once with chain 30 (500%) and it gave nearly 60k.
It's good to have some time with friends, even with strangers, I tend to chat a lot during grind. It's actually so much better than to keep farming tomes for other 2 past relics, that was HELL.

after a few days going in and out a few times over the past few days, I have to say I've not got a brass razoo out of this content. Never seen an NM spawn. never seen a crystal drop, despite chaining to 30 both in groups and solo. Never seen a lockbox, never got a bunny, no magicite yet, no experience to speak of (I got to level 21+, but that was achieved in amemos, not pagos). The challenge log only gets you so far, then nothing for the rest of the week. Moving around the area solo and exploring just gets you dead and risks a huge penalty. This is a brick wall I'm tired of banging my head against.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

The problem is they are using all the bad things from ffxi and completely ignoring all the things they got incredibly right. I think any ffxi player, myself included, will tell you that.

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This. I'm no huge fan of XI, but any hat-tip XIV makes to XI in its gameplay is generally alike to handing someone an exposed high-speed fan when they mention that maybe planes fly well and maybe turbines play a part in that. Yes, just the fan, somehow uncontainable, and ready to eat fingers. No wings, no fuselage.

It reminds me of the WoW developer comment that "Class armor tier set effects are inherently dull, so we've scrapped them," despite that they had only just stooped to dull set effects with that very expansion. "Poisoning the chalice" so to speak.

Give someone the worst of something they've asked for and maybe they'll stop asking for it, or anything for that matter... Fair enough, but it won't be due to a mistrust of the spirit of the original -- only the borrower's ability in implementation.

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Originally Posted by udubdave

I kinda like Pagos better than Anemos. Pagos has more of that FFXI feel to it, where you actually have to form a viable party and find a camp, and try to get chain 30. Anemos was just like join the train, go AFK, then kill NM. You can do that in Pagos too, but it's a lot less efficient than joining a chain party.

We'll see what it's like when the majority of people are level 30+ though. It might turn into another Anemos fate train.

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They put so many walls in the way to make that way harder than you may think.
You don't get a mount or access to the upper warps until very high level so everyone is slow
They put tons of chokes all over the map guarded by level 40 dragons that just slaughter people trying to run by. Good luck trying to get a giant herd of people in a rush for free exp to tiptoe
The spawn rates are abysmal, watched a group killing worms nearby so fast they were waiting for worms and it still took over an hour for the pop
You really don't need much pagos crystals at all(unless the 35 upgrade is something silly). Not much incentive to go back and farm any of the lower level stuff

and finally they made it so anything that doesn't count towards an NM spawn is drastically more valuable to farm since they randomly just gift you with the 200% bonus exp on top of chain bonus

Just feels like the sheer amount of roadblocks they put in place will make that road pretty useless.

Seems to me the far more likely situation will be a large chunk of people getting their two levels from challenge logs and any NM that just happen to be around at the time then waiting for the next week. I mean the final reward for this part of eureka is basically just a glamour placeholder after all and that method should only take 6-7 weeks of minimal effort

Pagos suffers the same fate as Anemos does. It is boring as hell at the beginning. That's bad game design.

It's struck me that this patch is terrible timing for Enix. After a long content lull, they've released a failed patch that literally only offers a long mob grind, just a week before WoW launches an entire new expansion, which will undoubtedly be packed with new quests, story, content and zones to explore. I mean, the timing probably couldn't be worse. I never thought I'd go back, but suddenly I find myself very interested in what BFA has to offer.

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

It's not SE mistake the players dumbness.
NM train is the last phase of Eureka, the first phase is the grind, a lot of players needs to level up with the grind to be able to push the NM train easily.
But players are lazy, while everyone is grinding to make the NM real, them are here complaining.

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Why is it "lazy" to find something unenjoyable or boring?

I find cutting the lawn with a nail scissors boring, but that doesn't mean I'm lazy. It just means it's a waste of my time and I'd rather do something else. Same with mmo's, I could play one with lots of quests, rewards and fun content, or I could play one that requires I grind several thousand mobs for a tiny bit of content and no reward. It's not a difficult choice for me.

You prefer Eureka. That's great. Enix has you sorted then. Other players aren't obliged to enjoy it too though and can offer feedback or choose not to do it.

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

It's not SE mistake the players dumbness.
NM train is the last phase of Eureka, the first phase is the grind, a lot of players needs to level up with the grind to be able to push the NM train easily.
But players are lazy, while everyone is grinding to make the NM real, them are here complaining.
But when the NM train is placed, all of them will be clapping the content.
And will be the same thing with Logos.

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I don't consider myself lazy by any stretch just because I don't want to mindlessly zerg HP sponges until my hands fall off. You should stop generalizing.

People complaining aren't lazy; they just aren't having fun, or they don't feel like chaining mobs gives rewards that scale based on how much time/effort they take. I hate it because this game's combat is not interesting enough to repeatedly kill trash mobs that have zero mechanics to them for hours on end.

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I find it funny, that the MAJORITY said that Anemos was trash and that they would unsub. But look at everyone, they were all lvl 20 at launch day of Pagos, and are here now complaining.

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You sure do like to generalize anyone who dislikes content you like. You should stop that.

I didn't like Anemos, but I never said I would unsubscribe over it. At most, if the NM train had not developed, I just wouldn't have done the relics this expansion. I'm already seriously considering not finishing content I normally don't mind (I have 4 completed Anima relics, and 2 almost completed Anima - two of those completed relics I did pre-nerf to any step) because I dislike the design of Pagos.

The weapons aren't that useful for me anyways; I raid so I can just go into God Kefka whenever I want for i375 weapons. Most I was going to use them for was for glamour. If they don't allow for customizable stats, it's quite possible they won't surpass Savage and be BiS, because some have horrible enough substats that even guaranteed melds won't make them better than the Alphascape Savage weapons (like the healer weapons).

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Pagos and anemos are NOT the same, is everyone blind? Can't you see is a ENTIRE NEW MAP, every monster is different than anemos.

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New map design + new mob design =/= an entirely new flavor of content. It's a grindier version of Anemos, with all the tolerable aspects of the former made even harder to obtain.

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It's actually so much better than to keep farming tomes for other 2 past relics, that was HELL.

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This is your opinion. I'd personally rather have the unnerfed Unidentifiable step back. At least then, there was variety involved on how I achieved the end goal of the step (from dungeon farming for tomes to Gordias NM for tokens to Hunts for Allied Seals). There is no variety to mix things up in Eureka.

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

It's not SE mistake the players dumbness.
NM train is the last phase of Eureka, the first phase is the grind, a lot of players needs to level up with the grind to be able to push the NM train easily.
But players are lazy, while everyone is grinding to make the NM real, them are here complaining.

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You know.. there this thing called, "opinions" and people are allowed to have such things.
You coming here and insulting people for having opinions on content that is not enjoyable to them just make you look bad.
If you enjoy it so much, then why are you here bothering us so called, "lazy" "dumb" people, hm?
200k says you're standing in pagos right now replying.
Take a few to think about that ^.-

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Found the ESO player. (And I agree, I love the open world in ESO).

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ESO, LotRO, SWtOR... I loved collectables in Rift and EQ2, things like that. I like finding random odds-and-ends. Even back in WoW where you could find quest stuff, chests, rare mobs, that sort of thing.

I was one of those people who really liked anemos, and I mean there are neat things about pagos. The most fun vie had with it was adventuring into high level areas with 3 people dodging enemies. it was like we were on an actual adventure and it was quite nice honestly. The bunny thing is kinda cool, its pretty. But honestly I got burned out nearly immediately... like I'm gonna get to 35 and get my relics cause relics are what I do but man its a struggle. they made it so chain killing gives you more exp and it works but like its also just makes it really difficult to work? like I have yet to find a group that can dps the enemies fast enough, so its like you need to kill higher lvl mobs for good exp but it takes too long to kill them so your chain fails half way thro 90% of the time, so its like weird? also major issues with other people stealing your mobs if its crowded, there's like a flip ton of mobs around so this doesn't happen but it still does. idk just bizarre and I think unbalanced in a lot of ways. the NM train is half dead but still a thing, nm's don't give as much exp, and take flipping forever to spawn, like does anyone else think it is taking longer? The challenge log was good for literally one day. My number one suggestion is make the challenge log daily or every few days reset. So you would then have 3 different ways to level, and all of them intersect in some way, once a week is fairly useless for people who are spending hours and hours daily. Also its frustrating cause I feel like I'm spending hours and hours but people are just flying ahead of me in levels, maybe I'm not doing it right idk.

so in all its just painful so far, maybe things will change by next week but right now I'm having a hard time feeling the urge to struggle thro it, and like I said I thought anemos turned out pretty good! its just pagos is tweaked weird and it feels off imo.

Its just that the mobs are overtune, and not by a little.

I had the elemental buff (att up/def up/xp up) so i decided to finish my challenge log solo.

A lvl 21 mob, same lvl as me, had me dual cast vercure two time before i kill it, with the buff. In comparaison, its like fighting a lvl3 mob as a lvl1 in anemos.

I dont even know how SE will make Pagos viable once outdated because even the buff isnt enough right now.

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

It's not SE mistake the players dumbness.
NM train is the last phase of Eureka, the first phase is the grind, a lot of players needs to level up with the grind to be able to push the NM train easily.
But players are lazy, while everyone is grinding to make the NM real, them are here complaining.
But when the NM train is placed, all of them will be clapping the content.
And will be the same thing with Logos.

I find it funny, that the MAJORITY said that Anemos was trash and that they would unsub. But look at everyone, they were all lvl 20 at launch day of Pagos, and are here now complaining.

Pagos and anemos are NOT the same, is everyone blind? Can't you see is a ENTIRE NEW MAP, every monster is different than anemos.
I'm lv 24 and I already saw a lot of things improved. Some monsters that does not spawn NM have a chance to grow up and give a HUGE xp when defeated. With the right chain, it can give absurd amount. I killed once with chain 30 (500%) and it gave nearly 60k.
It's good to have some time with friends, even with strangers, I tend to chat a lot during grind. It's actually so much better than to keep farming tomes for other 2 past relics, that was HELL.

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It's hardly laziness for most, I just did 400+ runs on floor 21-30 of HoH it's ridiculous that they placed another heavy grind content after a heavy grind content HoH or Pagos should've been at front end of the patch. I'd wager many players burnt themselves out on grinding content from HoH.

The NM train certainly wasn't last phase it was end of week 1 phase when servers would have 20 - 30% in instance maxed/near maxed level & helped level everyone in the server.
Sure people who said they would unsubbed but thing is maybe they stayed subbed for other content & not *gasp* Eureka.

They actually are same though just because put some different models inside & made them slightly larger then are in world & wowwee they grow large or change model.. while interesting it only offers +200%xp which is nice but it can happen so rarely it's a worthless feature. The map is new sure but it's design is awful as pretty as it is it feels like I'm back on Sea of clouds or Churning Mist with how many choke pokes & walls are to try stop players it's an annoying map to navigate compare to Anemos more large open area'd map, it's not terrible but I don't think it's an amazing map.

You defend this but say that farming tomes was hard.. you had numerous dungeons/ trials/ raids/ Beast Tribes to farm Tomes, you could much like with current tomes cap them in an hour or 2 when unlocked you can repeat that easily to constantly have 2k tomes.

I begrudgingly do this content as currently on my way to el24 I'm here for my Glam Weapons & then like Anemos I wont touch it again, I can put up with stuff I don't like part of everyday life Pagos is a bore & brings no MAJOR changes to the Eureka formula.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

ESO, LotRO, SWtOR... I loved collectables in Rift and EQ2, things like that. I like finding random odds-and-ends. Even back in WoW where you could find quest stuff, chests, rare mobs, that sort of thing.

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It's a shame this game has pretty much nothing like that at all. I was sitting idle staring at the world the other day and couldn't help but see that there was nothing there. Just a very large, empty map.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

It's a shame this game has pretty much nothing like that at all. I was sitting idle staring at the world the other day and couldn't help but see that there was nothing there. Just a very large, empty map.

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I've thought about that quite a bit, I think it comes down to "competition" - the only real competition you have in this game is for loot, housing, & in PVP. Maybe hunts, but even those are on a predictable timer - and as long as you contribute, you get the gains. They've really gotten rid of a lot of the griefing in the game by removing anything that you could fight another character over. There's no racing each other to the khorium node that just spawned or the rare mob that spawns on an erratic timer and only gives loot to the first person to tag it.

It's unfortunately a sad trade for a more peaceful situation - I remember vanilla wow, BC days, and the playerbase was one of the reasons I quit. Not all of that was because of competition, of course, and we still have unpleasant people here, but you're not going to have someone screaming obscenities at you because you got to a treasure chest before they did. Of course, I'm good with my blacklist, so I don't know if it's a choice I would have made - I really do love those random exploring items. But I see what they were going for.

At least, though, they could give us lore nodes like SWtOR has. Those aren't competition, and it's at least some reward for exploring. Especially in, as Theodric said, a game that is known for it's lore and is incredibly story-based.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Update on the Japanese side of things, people *really* don't like Happy Bunnies and there are a few comments starting to pop up that Pagos is frustrating. Even a comment about how they don't like that the mount is not available.

There is hope yet.

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Ooh, well that's good at least. Thanks for keeping us updated!

Definition of Pagos:
There's a 3m high wall that needs painting, here's a 5mm brush for you to do it.
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- what do you mean you're not having fun?

How's Pagos? Short answer - Awful

The nerf to the NM spawns means a lot of punishing combat for very little reward. I've been in four times now and I'm seeing only one or maybe two NMs per session.

The Challenge Log gives good xp but causes issues with players now having lots of different objectives. It's hard to find a group where everyone works together if you don't do it straight after reset.

People seem a lot less helpful than they were in Anemos (probably due to the high risk of losing a huge chunk of XP if you try to be a 'good samaritan')

The bunny fates are just annoying, got gold 3 times and no bunny. Then again, the two people I know who did get the bunny got one grade V materia and a lizard tongue. I haven't bothered since.

It's hard (at least on EU Datacentre) to find people willing to co-operate and communicate with each other.
I've been in parties that broke because no one could agree what mobs to kill for the challenge log or because people just weren't prepared to kill mobs they didn't need personally.
Other parties people didn't seem to understand how to chain and ran round hitting stuff we hadn't pulled and totally ignoring the red mobs.
One memorable party where everyone bar two of us was afk...

It's been an exercise in frustration so far and it's caused my RSI to flare. Since the weapon is going to be outdated almost as soon as we get it, I am seriously considering not going back in.

is it possible to farm the light for my weapon in anemos?

I still have plenty of concerns with Pagos, but I want to talk about my favorite new addition to it: random "mutations" and "adaptions" that the monsters do like growing big, turning into different species, and even changing element randomly. Why can't I mutate and adapt in Pagos? The place is messed up anyway, so it might as well be possible for me to randomly become a 50 foot WHM that hits like a freight train or to transform into a manticore and beat the tar out of some mobs. It wouldn't happen all the time obviously, but having stuff like that appear out of nowhere would be hilarious and would help break up the monotonous grind.

I had taken a break from the game--my sub ran out right before patch, due to SE's glorious timing of spread-out content--and came back a day later expecting the Day 1 mess (a la., Anemos at 4.25 launch) to subside, people to have some idea as to what to do, and SOME level of efficiency to be found so we could all group up, have fun-but-not-as-SE-intended. I returned to find an instance white with salt rather than snow.

Challenge Logs to get to 22? That's nice, but the Log should only be a supplement than than a means to an end.

Mounts turned off again. Annoying. It was annoying in Anemos, we earned it in Anemos, and we earned the ability to mount up at level 21-ish in the main game. That a major function of the main game would be taken away for a place so expansive is just a dick move, to put it kindly. Oh wait, there's more! Lv40 dragons that awaken from their slumber and devour all of your hopes and dreams if you so much as move at normal speeds, so if or when we do get mounts in Pagos we'll have to still turn on the slow walk at every other corner of the northern half of the map.

The layout is purposefully built to disallow the free movement of trains, the mobs have to be killed mindlessly by the hundreds before NMs ~might~ show up, and SE still hasn't figured out that, maybe, some of us might want these FATEs to count toward Diadem NM or overall FATE achievements.I understand SE didn't necessarily want us turning Pagos into another stupid, boring train where people AFK and find actually enjoyable things to do, but a more proper response would have been, I dunno, make the NM experience more involved and engaging, making the other mobs more rewarding, even if they aren't tied to NMs, orthat like.

You know what they ~did~ add? A FATE that gives no exp, only a RNG-based chance at a bunny after spending so much time on this FATE, and the treasure being really unimpressive. This alone could have been done better by speeding up how long the FATE takes (and turn down completely the number of people needed for it), and providing a worthwhile buff to rewards from a certain element or the like. But nope. It's effectively a waste of time in addition to a grind heavy instance that has been literally built to be anti-fun.

Anemos was already a poor man's callback to FFXI, back when Korean MMOs were like that instead of faster paced like City of Heroes/Villains (out about the same time as XI) up to BDO right now. Pagos took the worst of Anemos and told us we ~must~ do it this time around, and oh yeah do some light grinding starting at level 25 (but hey, at least we collected two faulty magicites that couldn't be added to our wheels).

Oh yeah, I'd have loved to put a point or two into my defensive element while keeping the other five in offense, as DPS or healer. I understand this would screw with balancing, but I'd take that over this anti-fun experience we have now. Not "It missed its mark so it's not fun to me," but anti-fun. There might be some people who enjoy anti-fun things out there, but I was under the impression that they weren't FFXIV's target audience, as anecdotal as this might sound.

Just... WTF, Squeenix? Who hurt y'all as children, and why are you taking it out on us?

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Originally Posted by Nihility

They put so many walls in the way to make that way harder than you may think.

You don't get a mount or access to the upper warps until very high level so everyone is slow

They put tons of chokes all over the map guarded by level 40 dragons that just slaughter people trying to run by.

The spawn rates are abysmal,

and finally they made it so anything that doesn't count towards an NM spawn is drastically more valuable to farm since they randomly just gift you with the 200% bonus exp on top of chain bonus

Just feels like the sheer amount of roadblocks they put in place will make that road pretty useless.

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This is probably the best write up I've seen of Pagos. They Dev team made specific decisions to make the content harder and worse.

WHY?!

Well, apparently THEY REALLY hated the nm train and this is their answer. Well played se, well played. We know how they feel now, but that kindof spite is going to get them in trouble. Even if I agree with it. But they should do something and give players a bone. Or just drop this content.

https://i.imgflip.com/2fmtto.jpg

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Originally Posted by ko_

Well, apparently THEY REALLY hated the nm train and this is their answer. Well played se, well played. We know how they feel now, but that kindof spite is going to get them in trouble. Even if I agree with it. But they should do something and give players a bone. Or just drop this content.

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This is SE's way of operating and we as players have historically accepted it. Their go-to is ALWAYS to punish the player instead of redesign the content in a way that encourages the play they want. People fishing for queues? Give them a penalty. You know what other games did? Took away the option to select a "fresh" instance or not and everyone gets in whatever RANDOM DUNGEON THAT IS RANDOMLY PICKED FOR THEM.

Other games have this right. SE has it wrong.

Housing a problem? Let's not fix our stupid design and instance the content so that every player can have a house and not have to worry about losing it (like XI and every other game seems to have), let's punish the players for owning a house by demolishing them if they have to take a break. That will solve the problem.

Players are doing content in a way we didn't anticipate? Why create a PTR so we can see how they will use it before launch? That's a waste of time when we can just punish them in the next iteration of the content for misbehaving instead.

I'm letting my sub lapse and this time, despite enjoying being with my old friends from XI again, I'm not coming back. SE clearly hates their players. The game just isn't fun.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

This is SE's way of operating and we as players have historically accepted it. Their go-to is ALWAYS to punish the player instead of redesign the content in a way that encourages the play they want. People fishing for queues? Give them a penalty. You know what other games did? Took away the option to select a "fresh" instance or not and everyone gets in whatever RANDOM DUNGEON THAT IS RANDOMLY PICKED FOR THEM.

Other games have this right. SE has it wrong.

Housing a problem? Let's not fix our stupid design and instance the content so that every player can have a house and not have to worry about losing it (like XI and every other game seems to have), let's punish the players for owning a house by demolishing them if they have to take a break. That will solve the problem.

Players are doing content in a way we didn't anticipate? Why create a PTR so we can see how they will use it before launch? That's a waste of time when we can just punish them in the next iteration of the content for misbehaving instead.

I'm letting my sub lapse and this time, despite enjoying being with my old friends from XI again, I'm not coming back. SE clearly hates their players. The game just isn't fun.

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Yeah a PTR wouldve fixed this before it was a problem I'm in full agreement there 100%. Must be a Japanese thing cause I never seen Japanese devs provide us with a PTR. It's been mostly western devs who do, proving the east clearly don't understand their western fans. Sega has this problem too and capcom also in a few games to name a few.

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Originally Posted by ko_

Yeah a PTR wouldve fixed this before it was a problem I'm in full agreement there 100%. Must be a Japanese thing cause I never seen Japanese devs provide us with a PTR. It's been mostly western devs who do, proving the east clearly don't understand their western fans. Sega has this problem too and capcom also in a few games to name a few.

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From what I have noticed Japanese developers prefer to keep things as a surprise instead of testing to make sure it's right. A lot of the time they have good ideas but they have such a small sample size to actually try it (usually only internal) and they say it's good so they presume most will have the same opinion but that generally isn't always the case (I mean who thought Diadem on the team was good to release?).

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Originally Posted by Remus

From what I have noticed Japanese developers prefer to keep things as a surprise instead of testing to make sure it's right. A lot of the time they have good ideas but they have such a small sample size to actually try it (usually only internal) and they say it's good so they presume most will have the same opinion but that generally isn't always the case (I mean who thought Diadem on the team was good to release?).

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The Devs who are not actual players and never play the game enough to understand how a gamer feels/thinks/wants.
They don't have time to play enough with their product if at all to actually test it properly.
They think as coders and not as gamers so many things are good on paper but they suck in reality.
That being said can't see how they sould implement an actual PTS without having massive leaks about the story and dungeons/features way before release.
This is why they will never do a PTS.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

ESO, LotRO, SWtOR... I loved collectables in Rift and EQ2, things like that. I like finding random odds-and-ends. Even back in WoW where you could find quest stuff, chests, rare mobs, that sort of thing.

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Don't forget Guild Wars 2.

Yes it is a massive "Fate" fest on the maps for that game but it is a active massive "Fate" fest where people always find something to do both solo and as a group. In fact, many players tend to use the map chat very often because every event contributes towards something that all players on the map will gain from so it is not a competition to who gets what first but how can each player on the map help each other to gain exp. Not to mention daily "hearts" for players who only want to do quests daily, Hunt marks for players who want a group target boss, and Meta events for when at certain point everyone on the map will swarm to as it is a event designed for everyone on the map (both solo and group) to work together to beat.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

That being said can't see how they sould implement an actual PTS without having massive leaks about the story and dungeons/features way before release.
This is why they will never do a PTS.

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The same way all the other games on the PLANET do it?

Meaning, the reception of their product is far more important than the bit of a spoiler that might come down because of testing. Besides that, have you ever even been part of any beta testing? You don't get to play the story or the entirety of the content. You get to play very specific bits so that mechanics can be tested and verified as viable. Blizzard has had a PTR for as long as I can remember and somehow, that game has maintained at least ten times the subscribers as this one despite the spoiler or two coming out. The paranoia about spoilers is really out of control in this community.

And, you always have the option of like, not going and looking for information before a patch.

It's just not a good enough reason.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Don't forget Guild Wars 2.

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Never played it, but I've heard good things. I did enjoy GW1 quite a bit, although I never was able to complete the story because I didn't have enough people to play with. I do agree. I remember finding little things sitting around that would end up influencing your gameplay later, little bits for quests and stuff. It was a lot of fun.

I think SE could really benefit from adding little unique things to discover and enjoy. Even if they make everything server-side, like nodes are. I just miss that sort of variability.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

I've thought about that quite a bit, I think it comes down to "competition" - the only real competition you have in this game is for loot, housing, & in PVP. Maybe hunts, but even those are on a predictable timer - and as long as you contribute, you get the gains. They've really gotten rid of a lot of the griefing in the game by removing anything that you could fight another character over. There's no racing each other to the khorium node that just spawned or the rare mob that spawns on an erratic timer and only gives loot to the first person to tag it.

It's unfortunately a sad trade for a more peaceful situation - I remember vanilla wow, BC days, and the playerbase was one of the reasons I quit. Not all of that was because of competition, of course, and we still have unpleasant people here, but you're not going to have someone screaming obscenities at you because you got to a treasure chest before they did. Of course, I'm good with my blacklist, so I don't know if it's a choice I would have made - I really do love those random exploring items. But I see what they were going for.

At least, though, they could give us lore nodes like SWtOR has. Those aren't competition, and it's at least some reward for exploring. Especially in, as Theodric said, a game that is known for it's lore and is incredibly story-based.

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I'd like to see some public instances like ESO. I also liked the treasure chests that they had in Diadem along with some rare crafting material nodes. Anything to break up the monotony of killing mobs and being able to explore a bit. One disappointment to me is the MSQ areas for Stormblood have shrunk from what they were in previous xpacs in order to give us Erueka. I would have rather have seen SE increase the size of the main lands so you can't see from one end to the other and have expanded instanced content.

As much as I got used to the grinding and waiting in Anemos, this is even worse. Mostly wait like an hour for one fate to pop but I guess when some people are lvl 35 the full train can take action and move us little guys around.

well here's the thing the last phase of your weapon needs 500 of the nm fate crystals so even with all of there anti train stuff thrown in we'll have to make a train anyways to finish
so they have accomplished nothing

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Originally Posted by Pyro2hell3

well here's the thing the last phase of your weapon needs 500 of the nm fate crystals so even with all of there anti train stuff thrown in we'll have to make a train anyways to finish
so they have accomplished nothing

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Keep people busy for longer = more subs

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Originally Posted by Riardon

Keep people busy for longer = more subs

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Or people just say the legendary will only be good for a month anyway so the heck with all and drop their sub for another game.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

Keep people busy for longer = more subs

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September and October are packed with new games. I may just drop my sub for the first time in years.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

That being said can't see how they sould implement an actual PTS without having massive leaks about the story and dungeons/features way before release.
This is why they will never do a PTS.

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A PTS is usually an entirely separate test server where things like story and whatnot have been purposely removed so they aren't spoiled. Mechanics can be tested through placeholder bosses since again, nothing has to "make sense" per se, it just needs to work from a gameplay perspective. Had they play tested Eureka, people could easily point out the boring grind, lack of progression and that NMs should be the highlight. Instead, we got the assumption this is what people wanted.