DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

A duel/sparring system in this game would be absolutely pointless. The way the skills and classes work would just make for completely one sided fights and boring ones at best.

Why do most people keep saying "dual" rather than "duel"?
Yeah I hope SE will implement the duel system here, will be fun to watch and to bet on :D

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Originally Posted by Onikimaru

A dual/sparring system in this game would be absolutely pointless. The way the skills and classes work would just make for completely one sided fights and boring ones at best.

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Then whats the purpose of the Wolves Den? or Frontlines? Because "The way the skills and classes work would just make for completely one sided fights and boring ones at best." Honestly? What you said is dumb and really doesn't make sense since we already have Arena's and Frontlines which Wolve's Den could be a fixed match between 8 players where they decide to see who would win in a 1 on 1.

So technically we already can 1 vs 1 if it's a fixed match in Wolves Den. What these people are suggesting is to have one outside wolves den or frontlines. It's not pointless and it's not boring, because you're fighting another person, Not fighting a monster with a pre-determined AI.

Fighting a pre-determined AI is more boring that fighting a person, because you have to time and counter with certain skills in order to effectively combat another player. Because people are unpredictable. Monsters and Dungeons/Raids are predictable, wheres the fun in that when you know what to do as soon as the dungeon starts?

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Originally Posted by Grimmel

Then whats the purpose of the Wolves Den? or Frontlines? Because "The way the skills and classes work would just make for completely one sided fights and boring ones at best." Honestly? What you said is dumb and really doesn't make sense since we already have Arena's and Frontlines which Wolve's Den could be a fixed match between 8 players where they decide to see who would win in a 1 on 1.

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Really?, you don't get why team objectives drastically change PVP in this game?. There is only group PVP BECAUSE of the way this game works..

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Originally Posted by Onikimaru

Really?, you don't get why team objectives drastically change PVP in this game?. There is only group PVP BECAUSE of the way this game works..

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Maybe it's just that its 1:12 AM, but what the hell are you even saying? You're a very confusing person.

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Originally Posted by Grimmel

Maybe it's just that its 1:12 AM, but what the hell are you even saying? You're a very confusing person.

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He is trying to say while it is more interesting than fighting a mob due the human element this game was designed on the holy trinity concept. So one vs one will not be a balanced fight due to that fact. But what he fails to grasp it'll be more about your skill with your job and less about job. This is not to say that some jobs are not just strong in PvP right now but that's because the devs have no PvP design ability at all.

FFXIV doesn't have the necessary mechanics to support a Dueling system because:
1) Tank/DPS/Healer trinity have different strengths.
2) Damage potential of certain classes and timing (how casters can be interrupted, but bards can spam attacks instantly)
3) It would be inherently unfair weighting against DPS, since either the tank would be able to soak up more damage, or the healer would just heal themselves and it becomes a race of who can outlast the other.

Let's not even think about support mechanics like the chocobo or arcanist pets.

Other games that have such systems, all their classes are effectively DPS classes to begin with, and fighting a healer or tank is not typically a winnable scenario without beating their cast speed. Full open-world PvP games are designed around "everyone is an equal DPS" because players have to defend themselves.

That said, games that have both PvP and PvE are only good at one of them.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Why was this thread revived?

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Sorry I posted on PvP thread about this thread that duplicated by OP in there lol

I love repeating myself...

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Originally Posted by Onikimaru

A duel/sparring system in this game would be absolutely pointless. The way the skills and classes work would just make for completely one sided fights and boring ones at best.

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Firstly, we can balance duels ourselves very easily. Want a serious match? Balance it yourself, same Job verses same Job, or similar. No shit Black Mage verses Monk wont offer much.
Secondly, one sided matches are a valid form of testing yourself. If I duel a DPS as a Healer would I be aiming to win? Not really, I'd be practicing almost the exact situation I'll be faced with in regular PvP. That would be the point. I tend not to heal in Frontlines because I know I suck at it. Were I to practice I'm sure I'd get better, but for the duration of that practice my team is at a disadvantage. Being able to lightly practice outside of any team based PvP would be a significant boon.
Thirdly, who cares if a fight is unbalanced? Were I ridiculously confident in my Black Magery I'd quite like the chance to try and prove it by burying a melee DPS.

Lastly, Duels would offer something to do during queue times (which is PvP, before someone pops in claiming I should be happy to queue for PvP and then go mining to pass the time... No, when I queue PvP I want to PvP, no content scratches that itch between queues except potentially Duels) and it wouldn't be significantly hard to implemented if balance goes out the window. Lock it behind Friend Requests or a PvP Rank requirement to prevent harassment, both are systems already in place. Only allow them in certain areas? Another system already in place, with Triple Triad Duels. All they'd need to do is temporarily unlock PvP skills (done in PvP and Wolves' Den Pier already) and work on an iLevel sync to the lowest player, which is something they already plan to implement as well.

There isn't really a lot of work that would need to go into implementing Duels and they offer so much; PvP to do while queuing, a way to practice against a living target, a way to learn various Job strategies, something to do for a serious challenge, etc. etc.. Heck I'd quite like the opportunity to just test things without having to drag six other people into Wolves' Den, for example how much Accuracy negates Blind.

I love how most people are citing this can happen because of DCUO but forget one main difference between that and this game. In DCUO its a good vs evil game. In this game none of us are the bad guys. We are all the warriors of light.

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Originally Posted by caponesavage

I love how most people are citing this can happen because of DCUO but forget one main difference between that and this game. In DCUO its a good vs evil game. In this game none of us are the bad guys. We are all the warriors of light.

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That's OK, we love how most people citing duels can't happen because we're the Warrior of Light are ignoring the fact that we actually do duel in the main scenario quests;

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Originally Posted by Alacran

http://i.imgur.com/dV74Le6.png

http://i.imgur.com/86S6iLo.png

http://i.imgur.com/iUHjX4K.png

http://i.imgur.com/WYMvXjz.png

http://i.imgur.com/SkmVzRe.png

Last I checked the "spirit" of Final Fantasy and of Erozea is just fine with with us testing our martial ability against one another.

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A "Good verses Evil" system would only really be required for persistent open world PvP. That isn't what duels are, duels are pretty much exactly what Triple Triad offers us, just playing with blades and magic, rather than a children's card game.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

That isn't what duels are, duels are pretty much exactly what Triple Triad offers us, just playing with blades and magic, rather than a children's card game.

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And have you tried playing a game of Triple Triad out in the ghost cave in Middle La Noscea? On High Bridge in East Thanalan? What about Hammermill in North Shroud? Triple Triad can be played in a number of venues, but not everywhere. I and many others I know have tried.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

And have you tried playing a game of Triple Triad out in the ghost cave in Middle La Noscea? On High Bridge in East Thanalan? What about Hammermill in North Shroud? Triple Triad can be played in a number of venues, but not everywhere. I and many others I know have tried.

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What's you're point? They set specific places where Triple Triad can be played, they can do the exact same for PvP duels. Just instead of allowing them in crowded places, only allow them out in the wilderness. Make it so you cannot challenge someone to a duel in Revenant's Toll or Saint Coinach's Find, but you can at say, Camp Revenant's Toll, or that part of Mor Dhona where we had a duel with Hoary Boulder in the main scenario quests.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

What's you're point? They set specific places where Triple Triad can be played, they can do the exact same for PvP duels. Just instead of allowing them in crowded places, only allow them out in the wilderness. Make it so you cannot challenge someone to a duel in Revenant's Toll or Saint Coinach's Find, but you can at say, Camp Revenant's Toll, or that part of Mor Dhona where we had a duel with Hoary Boulder in the main scenario quests.

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Point being that there are already venues. That's not what's being asked for, though. Thus...

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I don't think anyone has a problem with duels, just not open world duels. The little arena in Ul'dah, Wolves' Den, by all means please. Duel to your heart's content. But leave me, and everyone else not interested, out of it.

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Oh, so you're one of those "I don't even want to see duels going on" people. Sorry, but it is hard to take that complaint seriously.

Question. What is the difference between someone doing a Levequest in Mor Dhona and someone having a duel in Mor Dhona?

Don't bother with "PvPers will bug PvEers for duels", because we've already seen numerous suggestions in this thread that would prevent that... So yeah, what is the difference? Why is it OK to see someone grinding PvE content but not two people PvPing? By everyones own admission, PvP in this game is not popular, so it isn't like we'd see a massive amount even dueling to begin with... All I see is a bias against PvP, which really isn't a solid argument. Again, very hard to take such complains seriously.

Understand, this isn't about not wanting to see it. This is about not being involved. I don't like PvP and no amount of duel request spam is going to change that. But if duels go open world, and there's no means of filtering myself out of that chaos, then there's going to be problems. Further, there's a big difference. When I see someone using a leve I genuinely want to help them. You used to be able to in the Betas, not sure why Square changed that. Especially the reinforcement leves, those can be brutal if the runner succeeds in getting away. A duel, on the other hand, isn't about doing a quick quest for exp. It's just PvP, and we have venues for that already that people have been complaining about as being 'underused'.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I don't like PvP and no amount of duel request spam is going to change that. But if duels go open world, and there's no means of filtering myself out of that chaos, then there's going to be problems.

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A solid portion of this entire thread has been us (PvPers) suggesting ways in which duels can be implemented without PvE players getting sent requests. Way I see it you should have no complaints, unless you think there is a problem with the numerous suggestions that have been presented in this thread?

Off the top of my head;
-Locking sending and accepting duel requests behind a certain PvP Rank, or a certain quest.
-Having an opt in process in which you need to select that you want to receive duel requests.
-Locking sending duel requests behind the Friendlist.
-Using the Blacklist for its intended purpose rather than simply having it as the RMT List.

I'm sure there were more. Heck, the majority of people cluster to places like Revenant's Toll, where we don't even want duels in the first place. Our own suggestion prevents sending duel requests in that location...

Wolves' Den and the Coliseum are nice and all, but they'd have to be instanced. Aside from the fact that it would be annoying to go "Want to duel?" and then have to travel to these locations, rather than taking a couple steps outside Revenant's Toll and being good to go, there is also the issue of space. Either they're instanced or we get a cluster f*ck of people dueling there, one of the main selling points for duels (to me) is the ability to watch and do them between queues, instances would destroy that utility. Then there is the issue of battlefield variety, (almost) anywhere in Eorzea offers an incredibly wealth of locations to duel in. Wolves' Den and the Coliseum offer the same boring ring...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

A solid portion of this entire thread has been us (PvPers) suggesting ways in which duels can be implemented without PvE players getting sent requests.

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Let me use Mabinogi as an example of how gawd-awful "dueling" PvP is (the game was Open PvP for Elves and Giants at one point.)
1) Players will PvP in areas entirely to lag the area down
2) Players will leverage bugs in PvP AOE's to kill everyone not involved (Think about how Bane and Shadow Flare work)
3) Players will spam people looking for duels, and if they don't have duels turned on, will then bug them in all the chat windows for it.

There are some people who are very hardcore about wanting to be the best PvP'er on their server, and will actively piss off players, increasing the griefing reports.
http://www.rowsdowr.com/wp-content/u...jt2vo3_500.gif

If a game is not already open-world PvP, and the existing PvP content is underutilized, you're just going to chase people away from the game by allowing people to be obnoxious everywhere.

So let me get this straight, you're using a dime a dozen Korean MMO in your example? Okay....

1) Lag? Really? We're back to "PvPers will cause so much lag!!!"? Hunts cause far more lag than duels could ever dream of. Lag would make duels fairly irritating to actually participate in anyway. If people want to lag an area down, they'd not even bother with that, they'd just spam Holy/Ring of Thorns/etc. The amount of people you'd even need to pull such a thing off makes this point completely laughable at best.
2) Seriously? Bugs now? Levequests already have the means to solve that issue anyway, again; Most everything required to implement duels is already present in game. I'm honestly amazed you're even making this point, you rank SE up there with the companies that squat down and squeeze out those Korean grindfests?
3) And we're back to the "People are mean" line of argument... Sigh... You really think people are going to persist in going "Add me to your Friendlist and go do this quest and get Rank 10 in PvP so I can duel you, chicken!"? You really think that would be a thing? Really? Even if it was, that is what my Blacklist is for, albeit is currently a glorified RMT directory. That is what GMs are for. That is what numerous suggestions in this thread have been for, that you're ignoring in favour of going "But this Korean MMO had problems!".

Existing PvP isn't underused either. Queues are an issue, but Frontlines at least gets used fairly frequently, as in I can have dozens of matches every day and, based off friends queuing as well, there are matches I'm not getting into as well. Wolves' Den is the only real issue (which is why it is getting some long needed love in 3.1/3.2), but even that has seen somewhat of a revival on some data centers due to a community driven effort to bring it back. A quick look over the Lodestone Frontlines Standing gives me the impression people can get 50~150 matches in a week. Should I compare that to something like the endgame raid completion rate, or have I already made my point?

Seriously, show the the precedent in this game for such obnoxious griefing. I have yet to see a single person act so ridiculously when it comes to the current form of dueling we have (Triple Triad) and I imagine far more people care about MGP than care about PvP. Do you think there are people out there who will just sense the fact that dueling is added to this game (in a restrictive manner) and all the asshats in the internet will just flock to the game to bully people? I am honestly curious. Again, this just seems like a strong bias against PvP, rather than a rational argument. It would help if you actually addressed the suggestions at hand, rather than out right ignoring them to go on some absurd tangent about some crappy MMO nobody has ever heard of.

The Marty McFly GIF is a nice little touch, I'll give you that. Perfectly sums up the image of the supposed FFXIV griefer for me; scrawny little wimps, rather than any serious problem.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

That's not what they were referring to. I played DCUO and had duel invites disabled... but that didn't stop people from spamming my chat declaring all manner of things about me for not accepting their duel.

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I needed a UI mod in wow to decline them.

Can't afk outside a city without duel request spam.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

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I don't care if a duel system is added one way or the other, but the dripping condescension in this post will not win many supporters, and actually will likely fuel detractors.

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Originally Posted by Habien

I don't care if a duel system is added one way or the other, but the dripping condescension in this post will not win many supporters, and actually will likely fuel detractors.

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Sorry, but when you see the same -frankly absurd -arguments (what else can you call "It'll cause lag!"?) being used again and again and again, with the people making them seemingly ignoring every single point thrown counter to their issues, it becomes very hard to be "nice" about it.

All I'm seeing is a bias against PvP in general (which is a very poor justification against something), a rational argument would pick apart problems with the suggestion, rather than ignoring the suggestion outright. Still waiting for someone to tell me what is wrong with duels with the restrictions suggested (FL/PvP Rank requirement/opt in to ignore requests/etc.), instead people just completely ignore that and tout some cheap Korean MMO as justification against duels. I'm honestly having a hard time even understanding the thought process at play there.

i know this may sound weird, but can we make a poll of whose infavor of 1 vs1. maybe we can have a decent number to show to the development team, we may a chance of this 1 bs 1 coming unto life.

e.g.
Who is in favor of 1vs1 duel to be developed as the new feature of PvP? yes or no?

People, it's not that hard to segregate pvp duel-requests or implement a checkbox which disables request to your character.

Please just let us have it, seriously. We've found numerous great ways of implementing it without affecting the landscape or bothering you or causing harm to the playerbase.

No duels plese, this game already have pvp enough IMO. Not every game ever has to have pvp.

please development team. you have displayed revolution like what director said, its time for an evolution. we see you doing good at pve, its time for us to see how you deal with pvp. you know we have not yet seen enough on pvp. step out of your comfort zone and deal this massive request for pvp duel

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Originally Posted by bettomendes

No duels plese, this game already have pvp enough IMO. Not every game ever has to have pvp.

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No, it doesn't "have" to have it, but people want it. I don't participate in the normal PvP, but I'd take part in duels......

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Originally Posted by bettomendes

No duels plese, this game already have pvp enough IMO. Not every game ever has to have pvp.

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When has more options ever been a bad thing?

Duels fill a niche which this game currently doesn't cater to in the slightest; non-queue based PvP. Currently if I want to PvP I have to queue for ages, duels would add the option to just find someone (likely a friend) and duel. That is desperately needed in my opinion, what we have frankly isn't enough because it isn't filling this need in the slightest.

Honestly, I would much rather they have spent time introducing duels (which as I've detailed, wouldn't even be a massive undertaking) than have them introduce Slaughter (although I've warmed up to 24 player Slaughter somewhat) and I'd certainly rather have duels than the new Frontlines map in 3.0.

Hmm most proper mmos that have PVE and PVP in which PVE servers for dueling can not be taken place inside a city, only outside, in faction based games like wow, the opposing faction can enter but then they have to fight off the whole city which is fun to watch.

I approve of duelling, no one is asking for duels inside of a city or sanctuary, its great fun. If people do not want to see it, then just stay inside the cities like you already are? Also this game defo has the most over sensitive players, probably why the GMs have started to switch off a lot in game more now and only respond to actual reports like ninja looting.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

If people do not want to see it, then just stay inside the cities like you already are?

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Ah, like how Tibia handles it? Cause that way would so work so well here where you routinely have to leave town to take care of a quest objective, unlock a dungeon or heaven forbid, activate a travel point. The problem isn't the idea of dueling, it's the people that would use it be arse hats. So far the only divisive issue is venue. Those who only want it in specific areas, and those who want it everywhere. Currently no genuinely adequate reason has been given as to why it should be everywhere, instead resorting to slanderous, overly defensive arguments. I think the whole argument can come to an agreeable close if this one question can be answered, "Why do you want to involve those that don't want to be?"

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Why do you want to involve those that don't want to be?"

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You really seem to be highly exaggerating this issue, this has happened so rarely, the people that actually actively duel outside cities duel with people that want it there, they don't harass players for a match, pvpers want pvp and a good match at that. This game is not yours alone is the answer, you are actively denying people content which actually does not affect you, just looking for worst case scenarios which rarely occur.

Also this game is Yoshi P vision of final fantasy in an MMO, and already has PVP, threads like this tells people of the additional content to have in the game to do in free time, yet you are actively want to deny content? Please tell me how WoW has not died yet through this, the very model of duelling is from there is what people are asking for and its working pretty healthy by a large account, a niche unknown game thats most likely free to play can't say it counts.

Not to mention you just do not accept other peoples reasons, every reason used was adequate. Just as I do not find your reason to be adequate at all, additional gameplay options grows a game and appeals to many types of players just as Yoshi P has claimed so far.

Heck if going by your reason, why hasn't the option to disable other peoples glamours not in the game? Why should I have to see that from other people, it makes the game look like a circus town. Glamours are not integral to part of the game, its a form of content to those that like it to take part in it. And let them, they are having fun but you don't see me making highly exaggerated claims like it offends my moral standards or anything.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

yet you are actively want to deny content?

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Well, even ignoring the argument that resouces spent on one piece content can't be spent on other content that people might like more, there is also the issue that adding dueling in the open world does affect the aesthetic of the game. People are allowed to dislike PvP so much that they don't even want to see it.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Well, even ignoring the argument that resouces spent on one piece content can't be spent on other content that people might like more, there is also the issue that adding dueling in the open world does affect the aesthetic of the game. People are allowed to dislike PvP so much that they don't even want to see it.

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That aesthetic is not determined by the players but by the developers or more so Yoshi P in this case who is a fan of PVP, you are just stating the view of how you see this game rather then the devs in that case. People are fine to dislike what they want just how I dislike seeing the circus freak town that glamours has turned this game into but I will never ask for the feature to not be there, I also feel the resources used to make vanity pieces can be used in other parts of the game instead.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Well, even ignoring the argument that resouces spent on one piece content can't be spent on other content that people might like more, there is also the issue that adding dueling in the open world does affect the aesthetic of the game. People are allowed to dislike PvP so much that they don't even want to see it.

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Here's the thing: I don't like PVP but let's be fair, every one of us has a list of content that we don't play or don't like. The resource argument can be, and is, thrown at everything in this game. The aesthetic complaint can just as easily be applied to the players spamming emotes or actions. For players like us (who will never touch a dueling system), my only request is that, by default, I can't be bothered with it. If it doesn't impact my game play, then it doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, Yoshida is a fan of PvP, and he's done some nice things for those that want it. He's given them the Wolves' Den, two variations of Frontlines and is reportedly giving Frontlines even more love in Heavensward. This is the face of PvP in XIV and I'm all for it. Most everyone is all for it. To say people don't want it is rather shallow, but this seems to be the assertion as to what the argument is. It's the words 'open world' that is being disputed. If that was Yoshida's plan then he's had a lot of time to implement it. Yet he hasn't. This isn't about aesthetics, this is about the time between the implementation of the Wolves' Den to now, where the only other PvP development has been Frontlines. So what IS Yoshida's plan here? I'm not going to speak for him, but I will let his direction be his voice.

Append:

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I think the whole argument can come to an agreeable close if this one question can be answered, "Why do you want to involve those that don't want to be?"

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Originally Posted by raelgun

That aesthetic is not determined by the players but by the developers or more so Yoshi P in this case who is a fan of PVP, you are just stating the view of how you see this game rather then the devs in that case. People are fine to dislike what they want just how I dislike seeing the circus freak town that glamours has turned this game into but I will never ask for the feature to not be there, I also feel the resources used to make vanity pieces can be used in other parts of the game instead.

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Apples and Oranges.

Yes, Yoshi-P is a fan of PvP. I also bet that he's a fan of a lot of other stuff too. He's also the director of the game and knows better than just make FFXIV to his own tastes. A glaring example of this is crafting and gathering that he has no interest in yet is still in the game.

You saying that you wouldn't ask for glamours to not be in the game is completely meaningless to this argument, because it's entirely possible that glamours simply don't bother you as much as dueling would bother others.

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

Here's the thing: I don't like PVP but let's be fair, every one of us has a list of content that we don't play or don't like. The resource argument can be, and is, thrown at everything in this game. The aesthetic complaint can just as easily be applied to the players spamming emotes or actions. For players like us (who will never touch a dueling system), my only request is that, by default, I can't be bothered with it. If it doesn't impact my game play, then it doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned.

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A lot of arguments can be used for a lot of different things in this game. That doesn't mean that they aren't valid arguments or shouldn't be considered. Just as people are voicing that they want open-world duels, others can voice that they want PvP to continue hidden in instances.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Well, even ignoring the argument that resouces spent on one piece content can't be spent on other content that people might like more, there is also the issue that adding dueling in the open world does affect the aesthetic of the game. People are allowed to dislike PvP so much that they don't even want to see it.

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PvP actually has its own little development team, so time spent on PvP content isn't time that would otherwise be spent on PvE content. Scroll up and you'll see my opinion on what PvP content I'd prefer; New Maps or Duels.

Also go back a page or so for an example of the "aesthetic" this game has. Dueling is an active part of Ul'dah society. Main Scenario quest has you actively dueling. Duels seem to be something Adventurers (NPC ones, at least) actively participate in.

And yes, people are allowed to dislike PvP so much that they don't want to see it. You know what though? That means absolutely nothing. Does "I dislike it so nobody can have it!" sound like something a mature person would say? Sounds fairly childish to me. There are plenty of things I dislike in this game that I ignore because other people like them and I'm perfectly fine with them somehow finding enjoyment in things I dislike.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

A lot of arguments can be used for a lot of different things in this game. That doesn't mean that they aren't valid arguments or shouldn't be considered. Just as people are voicing that they want open-world duels, others can voice that they want PvP to continue hidden in instances.

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Again, instances are the thing we want to get away from with duels. More instance PvP is not what we want, for one thing queues are an issue with instances. Further compounding that issue is splitting PvPers up into multiple queues. The main reason many of us want duels is so we have something (PvP related) to do between queues. Locking it in an instance just completely misses the point.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

A lot of arguments can be used for a lot of different things in this game. That doesn't mean that they aren't valid arguments or shouldn't be considered. Just as people are voicing that they want open-world duels, others can voice that they want PvP to continue hidden in instances.

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Sure, but the aesthetic argument you used could just as easily be applied to literally anything else in the game.

"Bikini miqo'tes in Ishgard wrecks the aesthetic "
"Mount spam in Mor Dhona wrecks the aesthetic"
"Lalafells wreck the aesthetic for me"

I'm not disagreeing that you can voice that it annoys you, just realize that your argument will join the above ones (and more) in the chatter that comes from the forums.

Me personally? I have to fight the knee-jerk reaction I have whenever pvp comes up. WPVP abuse in WoW (PVE server mind you) was the reason I left that game. Given the frustration it caused it's hard not to shoot down anything that leans toward WPVP. Everything boils down to one and only one argument: Will this impact my game play? If I can be spammed, then I don't want it. If I can't, then just like the dragoon spamming the pole dance, I'll just pretend it's not there.

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

Will this impact my game play? If I can be spammed, then I don't want it. If I can't, then just like the dragoon spamming the pole dance, I'll just pretend it's not there.

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Well, so far I've suggested locking requests behind a minimum PvP Rank requirement among other things (having to be on each others Friendslist, similar to Mail Mog, simply having an opt in option that PvEers can simply never check, etc.), though this seems to be something the "No Duels!" crowd insists on ignoring. I imagine that would prevent you from being spammed though?

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Originally Posted by Nalien

PvP actually has its own little development team, so time spent on PvP content isn't time that would otherwise be spent on PvE content. Scroll up and you'll see my opinion on what PvP content I'd prefer; New Maps or Duels.

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I doubt that adding dueling to the open world would only involve the PvP team.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Also go back a page or so for an example of the "aesthetic" this game has. Dueling is an active part of Ul'dah society. Main Scenario quest has you actively dueling. Duels seem to be something Adventurers (NPC ones, at least) actively participate in.

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There's a world of a difference between duels in quests and having players duking it out wherever they want.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

And yes, people are allowed to dislike PvP so much that they don't want to see it. You know what though? That means absolutely nothing. Does "I dislike it so nobody can have it!" sound like something a mature person would say? Sounds fairly childish to me. There are plenty of things I dislike in this game that I ignore because other people like them and I'm perfectly fine with them somehow finding enjoyment in things I dislike.

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Yes that's immature, but going "I want it and I don't care if it affects you!" is so much more mature. Ask for new servers with dueling and I wouldn't argue against it, but forcing players that have zero interest in PvP to suddenly have to deal with dueling is just as selfish.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Again, instances are the thing we want to get away from with duels. More instance PvP is not what we want, for one thing queues are an issue with instances. Further compounding that issue is splitting PvPers up into multiple queues.

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Easy fix with the queue issue: allow two players or groups to queue together to fight each other (something that already existed in FFXI).